Rubber Gearshift Surround

[Taylormade]

Does anyone have a loose 32 DL mat - the one that surrounds the gearshift and brake levers? I'd like to try and reproduce it with the steel core. There is no trace of the one that used to be on my DL. I'll be glad to return it once I make the pattern mold. Was there also a matt around the pedals?

RT

[Guest 1930]

They are called draftpads, I have several DA but I doubt they are the same. There was a series of articles written by Jack Carpenter that may help, they have to be on the D.B club back issues CD? I have the articles and can mail them if you would like to read them. According to Jack unless I am mistaken you will not have much luck getting the steel encapsulated within the rubber.

[Taylormade]

Draftpads - you learn something new everyday. If you don't mind I'd like to read the articles you're talking about. PM me and I'll get you my email address. I had good luck making a set of axle pads for my 29 Plymouth years ago. The rubber pads were bonded onto a metal support and it all worked smoothly. The large, flat area of the draftpad may be more of a problem, however. You can't blame a guy for trying.

[Guest 1930]

Bonded onto a metal support would be different from the originals, the originals ( 29/30 cant say for 32 ) as I mentioned were buried within the rubber. I have never had the chance to fool with this myself although it is on my to-do list, I would be interested very much in your procedure and the turn-out as I am sure many others would be.

You can e-mail me at jhason2@yahoo.com and I will look for the copies too send no problem.

[RSayak]

My friend's DL is missing this as well, and I don't have any for my coupes either that I know of (unless there's some hiding in a box that I haven't seen yet). I think I've seen the '32 Plymouth ones available, however, they are a different shape, and I am not sure they have a steel core in them.

The hardest thing would be to make the mold. If one had a sample that could be digitized, I am sure a company specializing in rapid prototyping could make a plastic mold. Supporting the plate in the mold shouldn't be an issue. you just need some stands that locate in the screw holes that support it the thickness of the rubber, or urethane that you want to pour in there.

Or, the more expensive way (and likely how they were made), is make a metal mold of each side, layer some specialized rubber sheet on either side of the center plate, and press the mold halves together under high pressure and temperature, which will form the rubber, and bond it to the steel. This is how engine mounts are made. Someone I met this winter builds transmission mounts for 1957 Lincolns this way. I should ask him if he can make bigger pieces.

[ply33]

Steel rubber lists some but the web site only lists their number and I don't know what you are looking for looks like so I can't say if any are correct: Steele Rubber Products - Search Results

[Taylormade]

I had a close look at Phil Kennedy's original DL when I went to visit him last month. All the rubber - floormat, pedals, and draftpads had the same unusual ribbed design. I know there is no way I'll ever find - or make - an original floor mat, But I'd like to try and get the draftpads correct. I may have to get Phil to take some close shots of his pads, with measurements, so I can make a pattern on my 3D graphics program and have it printed on a 3D printer. I can use that model to make the molds.

Steele has some nice stuff, but none that matches the DL.

[keiser31]

I have this 1931 DG8 piece. Don't know if it is the same as the '32 DL6. Maybe we can figure out how to make some using this as a pattern?

[Taylormade]

There is enough there to make a correct pattern. The tricky part is getting the thickness of the rubber around the emergency brake area correct. It has to be thin enough to be flexible but thick enough not to tear. Phil will have to chime in and let us know if that matches his DL.

[keiser31]

Here are some better shots of it for comparison.....my patent number search on Google went here...Patent US1663586 - OF HOLLAND - Google Patents

Now....I wonder if there are some old N.O.S. parts on their shelves in Holland, Michigan.....

I will try to find the one from my DH6 to see if it is different. In my DH6 Master Parts Book, it says, "Pad-gearshift hole-left hand drive......#345395" and "Pad-gearshift hole-right hand drive......#344048". I cannot imagine why they would differ.

The parts book says that the one I have is for the DG8 right hand drive only. The car it came from was a left hand driver.

Edited April 24, 2013 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[jpage]

Parts like this are made in a heat press much like you described. a mould is made in 2 halves, a layer of raw rubber is placed in one half followed by the metal form and then the other halve containing another layer of rubber is stacked together and placed in a heat press. The 2 halves are then pressed together under high pressure and heated around 350- 450 degrees for a few minutes to vulcanize everything together. A good CNC machinist can make a set of dies fairly easily if he has all the correct dimensions. Measurements are the key. Restoration Specialties makes parts like this but it may take a long time! I'm surprised that Steele doesn't have something like this in their lines as the pattern seems to be the standard pattern for WPC cars. Perhaps theres not a large enough market. Steele used to have ones for '32 Ply PB , '32 Chry. C1 and Desoto, '32-'33Chrys., '32-'33 Ply Pc-PD and Dodge DP maybe you could use one of those! They also listed one for '31 Desoto and Chrys. that looks identical to the photo above.

[dodgedh2]

That looks the same as my 1931 DH. Without them side by side it's hard to tell if they would be different in size.

[keiser31]

Looks like the DL6 had a completely different part number/pad.

[Taylormade]

That's what I suspected. The 32s are a strange breed.

[Guest 1930]

I have not had a chance yet but if you have a part number for the original pad I can maybe tell you what other vehicles used the same pads, do you have these numbers?

[Taylormade]

I don't. I fear only someone with an original pad can help us. I don't intend to ask Phil to remove his. Steele lists pads for 1932 Chryslers, Plymouths, and DeSotos, but not for Dodge so it doesn't match any of those.

[Guest 1930]

I poured over some parts books but without a part number its like looking for a needle in a haystack ( not quite )

The MPB books are gear for part numbers, M.S parts books make finding parts a whole lot easier but your book has no listing ( page is missing I am sure )

Get that number from Phil, he may not have to remove it but instead get out the creeper and a flashlight and look underneath, it will most likely be a duffy pad and then # adjacent to that or 4 screws and the pad comes off. Once you have the number I can tell you what other models used the same pad within Dodge family and possibly Plymouth.

[keiser31]

The pad sits on a steel plate, so it will have to be removed to see the number.

[Phil 32DL6]

I don't intend to ask Phil to remove his.

I just spotted this thread soooooo...

Tomorrow's supposed to be a decent day. I'll back Debbie out and see what's what.

[keiser31]

Here is one on Ebay that they say is for a Plymouth....New Floor Plate Gearshift Handbrake Pad 1932 Mopar Plymouth PB | eBay

[Guest 1930]

Its obvious why people can no longer afford to properly restore a car with parts gougers like this ..........New Floor Plate Gearshift Handbrake Pad 1932 Mopar Plymouth PB | eBay

I would absolutely go for the experience trials and tribulations of making my own before I paid this guy for his even if it just happened to be the correct one which it may be considering it is supposedly 32.

Edited April 25, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Judging from the bag behind it this is a Steele reproduction piece. From that standpoint, he's not really gouging as Steele wants $148.80 for the piece. Either way, it's not a bargin. The sad reality is between the cost of the rubber, the mold-making materials and restoring or remaking the original for the mold, you're going to spend a lot more than that to make one. I enjoy figuring things out, but it doesn't always translate into saving money. If I had a nice CNC mill, I could machine the mold rather easily, but to hire a machinist to do it would cost a fortune. I have made similar pieces before using plexiglass and styrene strips. It didn't cost much, but the time involved was ridiculous. It was fun, so I didn't mind.

Things have changed, and there's no going back. When I bought my 32 for $400, I never thought I'd see the day when a beat-up fender for the car would cost twice what I originally paid for it. A gallon of paint that used to be $35.00 is now over a thousand! Any restoration worth its salt these days isn't going to come cheap even if you do most of the work yourself. I don't like it any more than you do, but that's the way it is.

[jpage]

The price is good on that part but I agree that all that stuff is way too expensive. It makes it even harder when there is only one manufacturer for much of that stuff; if you corner the market you can ask pretty much what you like! But if you need the part that's what you'll pay. Restoration Specialties has a rubber mat that carries a very similar profile that could be fashioned into a pad with a little thought and effort. But again, it's going to take time and you still won't have the correct part although, you might get pretty close. If you could get a mould made I sure RS could make them for you but the mould's the thing. That's where the money is!

Edited April 25, 2013 by jpage (see edit history)

[Phil 32DL6]

Here are some pics of my '32s shifter/hand brake floor pad...part number 360081.

As you can see, it's not flat anymore, and the rubber is brittle, so trying to mold off it would be problematic.

I can work up a plan with dimensions, if that would help?

[Taylormade]

Wow, Phil, you went above and beyiond the call of duty! I was worried you might damage it taking it off. That's about as simple as it gets - a square. A plan with dimensions would be perfect. If you could take an extreme close-up of the pattern with a ruler in the shot it would really help. Also, the thickness. I think I know how to reproduce those fine lines in between the thicker ribs. Once I get an exact size I'll give it a try and post results. You can email me the plan if you want, but if I have the side to side and top to bottom dimensions I can size your photo in Photoshop and work everthing out.

Notice it's close, but not the same as the 32 PB.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Phil 32DL6]

I was worried you might damage it taking it off.

It's actually pretty low-risk. Take out 5 screws and it slides right up and off.

I've had it off before to clean up the battery ground cable connection to the transmission housing, and clean and lube the shifter link rods.

[jpage]

As far as dies go ,if you have a trade school located close by,one that has a computerated machining class, they like to take on "real life" projects for practice at a considerable savings. If it fastens into a wooden floorboard ,I'd take a real good second look at Steele no. 40-0049-88 - '32 ply.PB pad. Measures 6-1/8 x 10-9/16 in., center gearshift hole but has clipped top corners. I know it's just close but might save alot of expense and only the experts are going to notice!

[Taylormade]

As far as dies go ,if you have a trade school located close by,one that has a computerated machining class, they like to take on "real life" projects for practice at a considerable savings. If it fastens into a wooden floorboard ,I'd take a real good second look at Steele no. 40-0049-88 - '32 ply.PB pad. Measures 6-1/8 x 10-9/16 in., center gearshift hole but has clipped top corners. I know it's just close but might save alot of expense and only the experts are going to notice!

I may be forced to cave and get the Steele item, but not before I give this a try. Thankfully, the simple shape of the DL pad will make things much easier.

[Guest 1930]

Judging from the bag behind it this is a Steele reproduction piece. From that standpoint, he's not really gouging as Steele wants $148.80 for the piece. Either way, it's not a bargin. The sad reality is between the cost of the rubber, the mold-making materials and restoring or remaking the original for the mold, you're going to spend a lot more than that to make one. I enjoy figuring things out, but it doesn't always translate into saving money. If I had a nice CNC mill, I could machine the mold rather easily, but to hire a machinist to do it would cost a fortune. I have made similar pieces before using plexiglass and styrene strips. It didn't cost much, but the time involved was ridiculous. It was fun, so I didn't mind.

Things have changed, and there's no going back. When I bought my 32 for $400, I never thought I'd see the day when a beat-up fender for the car would cost twice what I originally paid for it. A gallon of paint that used to be $35.00 is now over a thousand! Any restoration worth its salt these days isn't going to come cheap even if you do most of the work yourself. I don't like it any more than you do, but that's the way it is.

Ok than the seller is doing a good thing, still waay to high though in my opinion but considering the amount of these that Steels sells ( prob. very little than I guess they are not exactly getting rich either off of them.

[Guest 1930]

Here are some pics of my '32s shifter/hand brake floor pad...part number 360081.

As you can see, it's not flat anymore, and the rubber is brittle, so trying to mold off it would be problematic.

I can work up a plan with dimensions, if that would help?

I would have sworn I had seen that pad before but it is listed 4 times within the parts book and all 4 pages it appears only under DL. How about the pedals pad, I guess I am not even sure that is needed.

[Guest 1930]

I may be forced to cave and get the Steele item, but not before I give this a try. Thankfully, the simple shape of the DL pad will make things much easier.

Have you considered making a wooden mold, if you have access to a router than this might be your easiest route, I know you want the steel insert but it really is not necessary, have you ever played around with purchasing some thick rubber and setting up a guide for your router with a good sharp blade and high enough speed and moving the router VERY slowly you might be shocked at how nice of a job that does as well.

This has been something I have done myself in passing at one point as I myself was experimenting with a rubber floormat idea, crazy as it sounds try it and tell me it dosent work, you will not be able to.

I have a clear idea on how this might work for you and let me know if you would like to hear more.

BTW I found it interesting that the rear rubber floormat in DL was part # 360080....I think rear, maybe front.

[Guest 1930]

Here are DA in case you are curious, much closer than the Plymouth pad

360081 does not show up in my Plymouth parts books BTW

Edited April 25, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[R.White]

I wondered if draft pads were found on export cars like mine? Or maybe the body was originally furnished with one and it has got lost. On my car this area has been re-carpeted and the trimmer has skillfully created leather boots for the handbrake and gear lever and incorporated them into the carpet with leather edg'ing.

Ray.

[Guest 1930]

Good question Ray, does the parts book give any indication? Prob. not. I would say off the cuff that your car would not have originally had them since it is a Richards body if I am not mistaken.

[R.White]

Jason, at this point in time I do not know if my Body was built by Richards or if it is one by Holden; or indeed some other establishment. All I have is the dealer's plate on the toe board which is enstamped: Standardised Motors Ltd Sydney.

It would be rewarding to establish at least who the coachbuilder was. What I can say is that the body has rather attractive lines if that helps? I doubt that the interior can give many clues as the upholstery has been replaced. (Not withstanding, it has fine blue leather throughout with matching carpets and looks great!).

It may be that draft pads were introduced slightly later; I just don't know.

Ray.

[RSayak]

Here's a terrible screen shot of some photo I found online showing the surround mounted to the floor. Does this thing have a boot around the gear shift tower, or does the tower just poke through the draft seal, and there is no boot?

[Guest 1930]

Jason, at this point in time I do not know if my Body was built by Richards or if it is one by Holden; or indeed some other establishment. All I have is the dealer's plate on the toe board which is enstamped: Standardised Motors Ltd Sydney.

It would be rewarding to establish at least who the coachbuilder was. What I can say is that the body has rather attractive lines if that helps? I doubt that the interior can give many clues as the upholstery has been replaced. (Not withstanding, it has fine blue leather throughout with matching carpets and looks great!).

It may be that draft pads were introduced slightly later; I just don't know.

Ray.

I am sorry Ray, it is hard to remember the particular details of everyones car, your car is a 25 ( ? ) If that is the case than you are correct I believe in that they were introduced later, possibly with the intro of the 6 cyl cars in 27 but without doing some re-search than that is off the cuff.

I do remember that you have a very attractive Dodge and I would also be proud to own it.

[Guest 1930]

Here's a terrible screen shot of some photo I found online showing the surround mounted to the floor. Does this thing have a boot around the gear shift tower, or does the tower just poke through the draft seal, and there is no boot?

Its funny that you mention that, I click on the picture and it does not expand, are you able to make it so that it can be en-larged or can you send it to my e-mail so I can en-large it and post it?

I found this ring which appears absolutely correct/ a perfect mate for my own rubber within a very original DA and yet I have yet to find a part number or any indication within a parts book. I also found what I believe is the boot that you mention ( different car and cannot remember the story behind that particular car but it is a perfect fit for the ring identical in diamater.

However I know the boot cannot be correct because the DA has originally a nickel plated escutcheon or trim piece that would not have been originally covered up with anything, advertising for the car even mentioned this specific trim, does the DL originally have this, it is impossible to tell from the picture above, in daphnes picture it is also difficult to tell

Edited April 27, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[R.White]

Thanks for your comments, Jason. My car is '26 but a '27 series with the smooth 5 bearing crank engine and we have a real love/hate relationship!!!

Now that I have sorted out most of the problems it is much, much more love and only a little bit of hate - like the other day when it took 2 hours just to remove the toe board!!. I have redesigned it so that it now only takes 2 minutes.... Now I love it again!! Hey Ho.

Ray.

[Taylormade]

I think I have come up with an innovative way to reproduce the pad and use that prototype for the mold. It may take a week or two, but I'll post pictures if and when I get it done. I plan to use Devcon 94 urethane rubber, as I have in the past, to make the final piece. With Phil's photos and measurements I have all the information I need. I just have to order some inexpensive materials and I'm ready to go.