Paint colors for 1933 Plymouth PD Convertible Coupe

[1935EB]

The Convertible Top Irons represent a slight challenge. The only piece of chrome on them are the latching handles. They are attached with heavy rivets but are in themselves fragile. For the moment I am electing to paint them silver (Aluminum clad) rather than remove them and risk damage to otherwise irreplaceable parts. I am using a front convertible top bow made by Al Smith years ago and it appears to hold the castings well and it fits the top curve of the windshield frame nicely. In my correspondence with folks on these I am told that there is a rubber seal between the top of the windshield frame and the front top bow. On my Chevrolet there is a sheet metal cover but on the Plymouth it looks like the canvas is wrapped around the bow and than the long rubber gasket is placed inside the milled out slot. Al Smith suggested this as well when I discussed it with him in the 90's. Input from 1933 and 1934 Plymouth and Dodge convertible owns would be helpful and appreciated.

The general consensus is that these irons are painted gloss black with the chrome plated latch handles. You had to upgrade to a Dodge to get the top irons fully plated. The 1934 Plymouths are not painted black but are shown in the parts book to be "white metal". Does this mean Zinc or Cadmium plated??) The Plymouth and Dodge top irons for both 1933 and 1934 are otherwise the same set.

[countrytravler]

What is the configuration of the rubber and or mounting brackets that go in the areas of the arrows? Also the rubber that runs along the bottom channel between the windshield and the bracket in the up position.

Edited January 10, 2014 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

Customer that runs a resto shop is working on a 1933 Dodge Cabriolet.

[countrytravler]

Any good pictures of the dash with the correct position of the knobs? Also the hinge set up for the rumble seat. Does it have a spring set up for opening or closing? Did these cars have sun visors?

[keen25]

I took a photo of my father's 1933 Plymouth top hope this helps. It seem just a metal "u" channel and a rubber seal.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

Just as a point of authenticity: the bottom apron on the rad shell of that '33 Dodge convert. should be painted gloss black the same as the fenders. That's the 2 "triangles"and their joining lip. Also I believe the crankhole cover should be black inside the loops of the "6" and black in the inside border around the "6". Although the jury is still out on the "6" stuff.

[1935EB]

Keen25,

Thanks, when you say "metal "u" channel" do you mean this is in the recess of the windshield top bow that touches the top of the windshield frame? This is the way my early 1930's Chevs have it. The Center Bow at hinge pillars has the strip with the rubber in in. This is also on the front windshield posts. There is also a smaller one about 2 inches long that mounts to body just below the this one in front. Dave at Dodge City has these strips as reproduction parts and they are quite nice. I do not know if he has the rubber pieces but they look to be available from the folks Restoration Specialties and Supply Co in Windber PA. www.restorationspecialties.com

Chris

[countrytravler]

I believe that is the area that the side windows meet? Hard to tell by the pictures.

[1935EB]

Sheet metal is being fitted. The rumble seat lid is held by the big hinges. You can adjust the side to side with the elaborate special attaching bolts provided. The front to back is accommodated by the back of the hinge where it is bolted to the rumble lid. Other than that you depend on the original body builder (Budd) for the "flush fit" to the surface of the body.

Rear fenders are looking good. Don't laugh at the condition of these old tires. I am glad to have something to roll this car around on. These need to be rotated clockwise or counterclockwise to line up with running board and gas tank apron.

I need to drill holes in the fenders to mount the tail light stands. Members of this forum have supplied this data and it is appreciated.

Aligning the doors took quite some time as Steve worked it one shim and body bolt (same as Chevy's) at a time to get the doors to move up and down in front and fill the space. We still need to tweak them both about 1/8 inch further to the front. Anyone who has moved a body off of and than back onto a frame has gone through this and knows what a time consuming exercise it is.

I have put the window regulators and door latch hardware in place so that the upholsterer can make his door panel including the correct placement of the holes for the door levers and window crank handles. The holes around the inside perimeter of the door are for upholstery clips. The regulators and door latch mechanisms are not restored yet but they do move freely.

Scott Bonesteel provided a missing metal strip that holds the top of the door reveal to the door itself. It came to me with a little more rust than is on it now. This reveal holds the top of the upholstery panel in place.

More stuff later and I hope this has been as informative and entertaining for you as it has been for me.

Chris

[keen25]

Hi Chris, The "u" channel is screwed into the side where the rear of the door glass rests and seals. This channel holds in the rubber seal. The photo to see this in is the one with my boots in it. I will look to see if there is a seal along the front part of the top where the wood part is. Erick

[keen25]

Hi Chris If you would like any more photos of any area please tell me and I will try to post it for you. My Father's car is a in the process of restoration, Ready to go for body work here are some pictures.

[TomP]

Sheet metal is being fitted.

Chris

Hi Chris, loose fit coming on nicely, thanks for taking the time to post it up for us. Not sure if I have asked you this before but finally will there be a cover piece over the join between the gas tank apron and the fenders as in the photo below?

or is that a different apron to the one we have

[ply33]

Hi Chris, loose fit coming on nicely, thanks for taking the time to post it up for us. Not sure if I have asked you this before but finally will there be a cover piece over the join between the gas tank apron and the fenders as in the photo below?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]232183[/ATTACH]

or is that a different apron to the one we have

Group 12-E of the '28-33 Master Parts book lists the "Gasoline tank shield Moulding" for sedans and "all but sedans" with part number call outs for "paint", "prime" and "enamel".

So, yes the business coupe, rumble seat coupe and convertible coupe should have that moulding. And it should be either body color ("paint", "prime") or black ("enamel") but I'd guess it would only be black on models that have black fenders and gasoline tank shield.

It is actually two parts: 1) a "U" shaped piece that screws down to the joint between the fender and gasoline shield with the open part of the shallow U up. And 2) a "U" shaped piece that snaps onto the bottom piece.

[1935EB]

Those covers are at the body shop. I will photograph as soon as I visit again. I thought sedans had them as well.

Also Erick, thanks for these informative photos. I know the hood lace, against which the hood rubs, is attached with nickel plated split rivets on the front. Your photo shows what looks to be split rivets also on cowl? This makes sense to me. All my Chevies use split rivets on front and "wire on" on the cowl. The difference is the Chevies have a loop with a bolt that draws up and tightens the "wire on". The Plymouth has no way to do this on cowl that I can see. Split rivets look to be correct, any other input on this?

Thanks, Chris

[1935EB]

Erick,

One more favor for the rest of us restoring these 33's. Can you photograph the brackets that hold the exhaust system to the frame? This would help me as well as others. Thanks in advance.

Chris

[Scott Bonesteel]

Keeping in mind that my experience is mostly with 34s, every one I have ever seen has the nickel split rivets on the radiator shell welting but uses small, pan head slotted sheet metal screws on the welting on the cowl that screw through the welting into the cowl. This makes sense because it would be simple, during original construction at the factory (which is usually what controls how things are built), to rivet the radiator shell because the tool could be held on the edge of the shell and crimp the back side. Not so with the cowl, where to do so would require two people, one on the inside of the cowl and one on the outside. Therefore, easy to screw through the welting into the cowl, through the pre-drilled small holes along the welting installation line. I will shoot you a couple of photos later tonight and check my parts books--I will bet they list a cowl lacing 'screw' and not a rivet. SMB

Those covers are at the body shop. I will photograph as soon as I visit again. I thought sedans had them as well.

Also Erick, thanks for these informative photos. I know the hood lace, against which the hood rubs, is attached with nickel plated split rivets on the front. Your photo shows what looks to be split rivets also on cowl? This makes sense to me. All my Chevies use split rivets on front and "wire on" on the cowl. The difference is the Chevies have a loop with a bolt that draws up and tightens the "wire on". The Plymouth has no way to do this on cowl that I can see. Split rivets look to be correct, any other input on this?

Thanks, Chris

[keiser31]

My 1931 cowl lacing is held on by sort of stubby self-tapping, threaded rivets.

[ply33]

Keeping in mind that my experience is mostly with 34s, every one I have ever seen has the nickel split rivets on the radiator shell welting but uses small, pan head slotted sheet metal screws on the welting on the cowl that screw through the welting into the cowl. This makes sense because it would be simple, during original construction at the factory (which is usually what controls how things are built), to rivet the radiator shell because the tool could be held on the edge of the shell and crimp the back side. Not so with the cowl, where to do so would require two people, one on the inside of the cowl and one on the outside. Therefore, easy to screw through the welting into the cowl, through the pre-drilled small holes along the welting installation line. I will shoot you a couple of photos later tonight and check my parts books--I will bet they list a cowl lacing 'screw' and not a rivet. SMB

The 1934 Plymouth parts book calls for both "Cowl protector strip stud" (quantity 24) part 104449 and "Cowl protector strip screw" (quantity "as req'd") part 142594.

The 1928-33 Plymouth Master Parts Book calls for only "Cowl protector strip drive stud (quantity 24) part 455088 on the PC and PD. Interesting that the part number changed between '33 and '34.

The 1934 part number 104449 looks like one that could be found in the "standard parts" section but I don't see it in my 1944 copy of that book. I don't know but think that the "drive stud" are basically threaded nails. Part 142594 is in the standard part section and is a "Screw - Tapping, binding head, slotted (type A)" (Picture looks like a pan head sheet metal screw to me). That particular number is for a No. 6 size Parkerized steel screw with 18 TPI and 3/8" long.

I put mine back together with screws as I couldn't figure out how to do split rivets on the cowl without a helper and hadn't figured out that they should be "drive studs".

[Scott Bonesteel]

The screws I have seen on 34s are exactly that, #6 x 3/8" slotted pan head screws. On further review of the part numbers listed above and actually going down and looking at the darn things, some of the 34s do have 'studs' on the cowl protector strip. The 142594 pan head screw checks in my 1929-1939 Plymouth Master Parts List as exactly that. However 104449, while listed, is listed as a "oval head rivet, split", 9/64 x 3/8, which doesn't sound right for even the radiator shell, much less the cowl. I found on my 34 Plymouths, as well as on a 34 Dodge humpback, both screws and these 'nails' or perhaps 'studs', pictures of both of which are below. I would guess these are the 'cowl protector strip drive stud' as that describes them exactly. They have a flat head and are not exactly a threaded nail--they look like a large upholstery tack that has been 'pinched' mid-shaft to provide a self-threading bump of sorts. Probably cheaper than threading them. Closer to nails than to rivets or screws. Shaft is about 1/2" long. Hope the pictures help.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Scott Bonesteel
Additional information (see edit history)

[keen25]

Hi Chris, Here are some pictures. Erick I will get a closer picture later.

[keen25]

Hi Chris, Here are some more detail pictures of the mount bracket for the tail pipe and an exhaust pipe with some clamps. Erick

[ply33]

. . . Hope the pictures help.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]232625[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]232626[/ATTACH]

Hi Scott, May I have permission to use one or both of these photos in the parts section of my web site? Thanks!

[Scott Bonesteel]

Sure, glad to be of help. SMB

Hi Scott, May I have permission to use one or both of these photos in the parts section of my web site? Thanks!

[1935EB]

Today we assembled the windshield assembly without glass to the car to enable the convertible top maker to get his dimensions etc for making the top.

The frame is composed of pot metal pieces that are chrome plated. Excuse the fingerprints and smudges on these pieces as they all really do look better than they do in the photos.

The lower frame castings were assembled to the cowl. They will be removed later to facilitate painting but we wanted to get the windshield on so that the convertible top could be fitted.

As can be seen the two castings are joined in the center with steel strap. I thought this piece was lost when I got the car but I later found it in a box of junk and parts that came with the car.

There is a gasket (made by Paul Bowling at Buckeye Rubber Parts that goes between the castings and the cowl. We left this off for the present. The large castings are attached with screws on the lock pillar and through the top of the cowl.

We than attached the two posts. The post on one side or the other needs to come out again to insert the top of the windshield frame. The thing I noticed here is that during the plating process every hole seems to get filled with hard crud and I had to run tap drills by hand and than had to re tap each hole. We dripped primer down inside the top of the windshield frame to resist future corrosion. It is a wonder these did not all rust out from the inside over the years.

Three holes are on the outside of the windshield frame to accommodate the rear view mirror bracket and a single rubber bumper in the center to keep the windshield frame from rubbing on the cowl in the down position. Two holes on the inside for the rear view mirror bracket only.

When we went to put the wood front top bow on we discovered that the chrome plating process can add material to parts. The two studs would no longer fit into the two holes in the end brackets. We ground these out to a larger diameter to get them to fit. Also the reproduction bow had the two brackets a little too narrow and we moved them out a little.

Overall we are now at a spot where the top can be made for the car. We also have worked out most of the assembly issues for remounting this windshield frame after finishing the color coat. Most readers of this thread will be relieved to see the firewall is now gloss black and not flat black as before.

Thanks for your patience with this progress. It takes longer than you think.

Chris

[countrytravler]

Trans mount for the 33 Dodge cars-small trucks-Ply. Not a complete mount.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

I agree 100% with Keen25's photos of muffler/tailpipe brackets. They were the same for most CPDD vehicles in those years. My '35 Dodge KCL truck has the exact same ones with the cloth anti rumble strip. The hood lacing studs are close but the ones I've come across on original vehicles looked more like an inverted McDonald's soft ice cream cone with 'flutes' cut in the body to make "cuts' in the car body steel. In other words the body is more like a slight slow 'swirl' with flutes following the swirl. About 1 1/2 turns I'd say. VERY sharp on the point and hard as hell. The heads look the same as the ones in Scott's photo. They're nickel plated. This was only on the rear lacing on the cowl which I suspect could take the hammering. The front uses nickel plated split rivets. I guess because you could get to the backside of the shell prior to assembling it to the vehicle, they had one guy put the lacing on,split the rivets, and then the lacing was in place when the shell was put on the vehicle. Since there is always body paint under the rear lacing and no overspray over it, I assume the rear lacing was applied on the moving line as a point of finishing.

[1935EB]

Dodge KCL and others,

Thanks for the comments on the muffler and tailpipe hangars. Not an easy subject to get good original photos of as these were replaced with after market parts through the years.

Chris

[1935EB]

Another area to look at are the rear engine mounts. I have attached photos of mine and also a copy of the image in my 1933 Plymouth PD instruction manual which shows these. Mine were equipped with rubber made from old tire carcases. Look at Daves photo on page 9, these are the brackets that hold these to the clutch housing. Which parts get the rubber vulcanized to them?

Do these look like the right ones for 1933 PD?

Thanks, Chris

[knobless]

Don't forget this cowl was used for right hand and left hand drive. That's why the 2 big cutouts for the steering column. Whichever side was used ,the other steering column hole was covered by a plate held by 2 screws. As for the Plymouth logo plate, there should be 2 holes for it about 4 " apart and ,either below it or to the side of it, another 2 small holes about 2" apart for the 'body number/model' ID plate. There isn't much else mounted on the firewall just through it. Such as the coil,choke and throttle control cables ,top right side, (through a 'square' rubber grommet) and the freewheeling/vacuum operated clutch cable,left side. If the holes look 'clean' like they were punched out they most likely are original whether used on your particular model or not. This was common practice. There were also the holes ,6 I believe, for the snaps that held the firewall insulation on the driver's side of the firewall. You do seem to be missing the 2 ugly holes that the dealer gouged through the firewall to hook up the heater hoses. Heaters were usually installed by a moron at the dealer just before delivery. Most of the holes I've seen seemed to have be chewed out by a large rat.

hahahaha love the part of the read "chewed out by a large rat"..............funny some of them are still working at dealerships today, some things never change...................

[knobless]

Another area to look at are the rear engine mounts. I have attached photos of mine and also a copy of the image in my 1933 Plymouth PD instruction manual which shows these. Mine were equipped with rubber made from old tire carcases. Look at Daves photo on page 9, these are the brackets that hold these to the clutch housing. Which parts get the rubber vulcanized to them?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236389[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]236390[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]236391[/ATTACH]

Do these look like the right ones for 1933 PD?

Thanks, Chris

I may have these pcs, I bought the remnance of a 33 PD coupe that the guy was "rodding" front and rear ends shocks all mounts steering col. and wheel with steering box attached plus some other odds and ends,,,,,,

[countrytravler]

From our 33 Dodge DP.

[keen25]

Here are some photos; the mounts, the cover plate. Erick

[1935EB]

Thanks Erick,

Looks like I have enough parts to send off to have the mounts and rubber vulcanized. These photos show it very well.

There is also a bracket under the transmission with a block of rubber on it called a steady rest pad. Do you have a photo of it and dimensions of the steel plate the rubber is attached to? I may have to make one and use it as a core to have the rubber vulcanized to it.

Chris

[keen25]

Hi Chris I will post pictures of the mount in this thread. The transmission mount and front mount.

[1935EB]

Hi Erick,

Thanks for these great photo's.

As your car is being disassembled you might have some good photo's of the following:

Couple shots of your package tray especially the front vertical section?

How did the grille attach at the top to the grille shell? I think there are two vertical "L" brackets that go from the top of the grille and go back and rest against the radiator. These are about 3 inches long. Is there rubber on the end that touches the radiator? Is there an additional bracket that holds the top center to the radiator emblem attaching hardware? A photo would be helpful here.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[keen25]

Hi Chris, Here are some photos. Hope they help. Erick

Note that there are support rods in the cab for restoration to prevent bending.

[TomP]

Interesting group of shots Erick, perhaps some one can tell me what the inspection cover is for?

[keen25]

Hi Tom, I not sure, the battery box is "front" of it. Erick

[ply33]

Interesting group of shots Erick, perhaps some one can tell me what the inspection cover is for?

Two door sedan has that cover too. Nothing under it on my car.

Parts book only calls for only two covers in the floor: the batter cover and for a cover for accessing the fuel gauge. Except that the cover shown is over neither. And I don't have anything resembling a cover of my gas gauge (wish there was).

I have heard that some part of the radio hid there (dc-dc motor-generator and/or HV battery used before they figured out a vibrator and transformer would work). But I think they used vibrators by 1933 and I've never seen a radio for sale for '33 that needed an alternate source of high voltage.

I've also heard that there could be a tool storage tray under there but you'd need to keep enough tools handy to remove the fasteners to open the cover.

So basically, that cover is a complete mystery to me.

[ply33]

. . . Here are some photos. . . [ATTACH=CONFIG]236958[/ATTACH]

Be careful when manipulating that little fold over strip that holds the side of the grill. I was not designed for repeated flexing and is very easy to break off.