Paint colors for 1933 Plymouth PD Convertible Coupe

[ply33]

Chris--Ply33 is correct about the mounting location for the dash light switch. You know me, I'm a 34 PE guy, but every PE or PE dash I ever owned had the same instrument lamp switch, a photo of which is attached. The 34 PE parts book lists the part number as 79498. If you look at "Pre-1934 Plymouth Master Parts List", which includes the 33 PD, it shows the same part number, 79498, for the PA, PB and PD. Keeping in mind the weird world of Mopar parts numbers, my guess is that this is the switch for the 33 PD as well. Hope this helps. SMB

Got an extra?

I don't think the world of Mopar part numbers is that weird: I think they did the same thing that the first company I worked for out of college did: Assign part numbers sequentially as they were designed. If something was first designed in the 1920s (numbers below maybe 100000) but still used in 1960 why not still use the original number?

Every new model year introduces a number of new parts if nothing else then for the bits of trim that makes the new model exciting and different for the sales department to trumpet. And for the much of the 1930s that numbers seems to be a fairly constant so you can guess by the number what year probably first used the part. Can't tell a thing about if it was a Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge or Plymouth part or if it was used on more than one make, model or year. But you can guess about when it was designed.

[keiser31]

Just to add as a reference....both of my 1931 Dodges have that dash light switch left of the steering under the dash edge.

[1935EB]

The front bumper face bar, with a dip, is a reproduction from Paul Bowling at Buckeye Rubber Parts. The rear is original from Plymouth. Both are quite respectable for my PD. The holes in the reproduction is a little bigger than the holes in the rear but they are well covered by the oval bumper bolts. These bumper bolts were made by Al Smith and they are excellent reproductions that fit both face bars well. Center to center on bolt holes front 14 inches, rear 24 inches. Chris

[jed85]

Hi Scott,

Any chance you can post a picture of the front cover; "Pre-1934 Plymouth Master Parts List".

Thanks,

Mike

1933 Dodge Cabriolet

[ply33]

Hi Scott,

Any chance you can post a picture of the front cover; "Pre-1934 Plymouth Master Parts List".

Thanks,

Mike

1933 Dodge Cabriolet

Here is one on ePay: 1928 1934 Plymouth Master Parts Catalog RARE Original Book 29 30 31 32 33 | eBay

Reprints are more in my price bracket. 1928-1933 Plymouth illustrated Master Parts Book Reprint

[jed85]

Great. Thank-you.

[Chrycoman]

It could very well be. But it belongs to the body maker not Chrysler Plymouth. You should have an aluminum plate with BODY NUMBER and MODEL on it attached to the firewall. This has some of the Plymouth line data on it. The MODEL will say TPCE or CONVCP or something like that. The BODY NUMBER will be the actual Plymouth factory number BUT will not be the consecutive convertible coupe number. As far as I know they just stamped on the next number in sequence for the body number. In other words your car body could be 1046 and the next sedan would be 1047. The right hand front door jamb,front or rear post, had a 4" aluminum plate mounted on it's side with the SERIAL NUMBER on it. This is the equivalent to the modern VIN. Some place on the frame this SERIAL NUMBER is duplicated but there is some discussion as to where it actually is. I'd be interested if you find it on the frame and where it was.

Actually, the body tag was placed on the body by the body manufacturer. Bodies arrived at the assembly plant painted and trimmed. Thus the tag was placed on the body by the body builder. A convertible coupe with a body tag with 1046 was the 1,046th convertible coupe body built, if the first body was 1 and not 101 or 1001. The serial number was the consecutive number for production for the series / model.

In the case of convertible coupes and convertible sedans, the bodies were shared by Chrysler makes. Plymouth and Dodge shared convertible coupe bodies for some models around 1933-34 while the later 4 door convertible sedans were shared by Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler. In these instances, it is possible the tag number was consecutive for all convertible coupe or convertible sedan bodies built by the body builder.

Briggs was the main supplier of Plymouth bodies from the early 1930's until Chrysler purchased Briggs in 1953. Briggs supplied bodies from its Meldrum Avenue plant for the Lynch Road as well as the Evansville plant. Briggs did acquire a plant in Evansville, a plant built by Graham-Paige in 1928, but it could not supply enough bodies. The Plymouth Evansville plant was built by the same Graham brothers back in 1921 when they were building Graham Brothers trucks. Chrysler acquired the building when they purchased Dodge Brothers in 1928.

Other Mopar body suppliers of the 1930's included Budd, Murray and Hayes. These companies generally got contracts to build specific body styles.

Briggs, Murray and Hayes did not have Canadian operations. Thus Chrysler of Canada built their own bodies, starting in 1927 when Fisher Body stopped building bodies for non-GM clients. Chrysler of Canada's body tag (1935?-1965) listed the body serial number, "Body No", for the body style listed under "Model No". The tag also listed the paint and trim codes.

[Scott Bonesteel]

Mike--ply33 beat me to it but that is the same book I have. As with most of the Plymouth parts books, it also has a 'part number' for the volume, in this case D-2660. I think I have just about all of the Plymouth (and most of the Dodge) parts books from the early 30s up through 35. There is a master parts list for Dodge as well. If you need a number, let me know and I will be glad to look it up for you. On my earlier comment about the Mopar parts numbers being weird, that was based upon what appears to be a practice of re-numbering parts or assigning different part numbers for the same part. Most common one is the 34 and 35 cast taillight and headlight stands. Yes, there were lots of different variations (painted, primed, chrome, with and without horn wire holes, etc.) but I have found many that are identical and yet have different numbers on them--often numbers that don't show up anywhere in the parts books, even the later editions such as the 1929-1939 Plymouth Master Parts List, number D-8575. As somebody commented, that makes it fun (or drives you crazy). SMB

[ply33]

Mike--ply33 beat me to it but that is the same book I have. As with most of the Plymouth parts books, it also has a 'part number' for the volume, in this case D-2660. I think I have just about all of the Plymouth (and most of the Dodge) parts books from the early 30s up through 35. There is a master parts list for Dodge as well. If you need a number, let me know and I will be glad to look it up for you. On my earlier comment about the Mopar parts numbers being weird, that was based upon what appears to be a practice of re-numbering parts or assigning different part numbers for the same part. Most common one is the 34 and 35 cast taillight and headlight stands. Yes, there were lots of different variations (painted, primed, chrome, with and without horn wire holes, etc.) but I have found many that are identical and yet have different numbers on them--often numbers that don't show up anywhere in the parts books, even the later editions such as the 1929-1939 Plymouth Master Parts List, number D-8575. As somebody commented, that makes it fun (or drives you crazy). SMB

Again, I suspect that Chrysler did the same thing as the manufacturer I worked for many decades ago: Every step in the production of a finished part or assembly has a drawing and every drawing has a part number. The only part numbers we see in the books are the ones made available to the end market. So, for example, a rough casting has one part number but one it is machined it has a different part number. The rough casting was never sold so its number is not in the parts book but may be visible on the part. Also, if the part was revised later, say by changing the material specification or some other non-obvious thing, a new drawing is made with a new part number. One hopes you'll be able to trace that through the supercedence books that were also published.

[1935EB]

You mean like this one. I searched a box of electrical items from this car when I got it in 1979 and "lo and behold". The action on the toggle is still smooth, I have not checked it yet with my volt meter.

[1935EB]

Scott Bonesteel was kind enough to "part with" a few of his extra 1933 PD side window parts about a month ago when I posted a request for parts. I have disassembled the one he sent me as well the one that came with mine. Here are some interesting items to think about. The stainless steel frames are the same except for the fact that one is a driver side and one is a passenger side. The lower window sashes are the same including the rod that goes through the lower sash and is held at both ends by barrel nuts. Where they differ is in the way the rollers are held. The axle for one of them is punched in the sheet metal and the axle for the other are ball bearings.

This is obviously a cost reduction improvement as the ball bearing unit was probably more expensive. There are 8 each of these per car. I do not think this is a difference between Dodge and Plymouth as they were basically the same part. The ball bearing unit came from the window in my PD. What is interesting is that the rollers in the one with the ball bearings has flat spots on them indicating they seized, whereas the punched supports have not seized even though they are clearly more rusty than the other. I know you needed to have this information to add to all the other interesting items and tidbits we have in our brains.

The rollers are staggered in the frame, this indicates to me also that there is no felt in these channels as it is not needed. The rollers center the frame in the channels and make for smooth operating of the windows. My Chevy convertibles of this time period do not have rollers and the channels are lined with felt to allow the same type of window frame to move up and down smoothly.

One frame will need to be straightened before my friend and AACA Member John Doerfler can polish these. John is well known in our area for repair, straightening, and polishing stainless steel trim. He did a demonstration at our Fourth of July Picnic on how this is done. I will post more pictures as the restoration of these frames move forward.

Chris, having more fun with this Plymouth project than I should be allowed to have.

[1935EB]

Some progress to report. Most of the car has had the old paint and rust stripped, major dings knocked out, holes welded closed, fillers added and a fresh coat of primer sprayed.

Doors and fenders.

More photos as time allows. Chris

[1935EB]

A few more.

Chris

[1935EB]

The body is going well. The patch panels (four of them) from Riley's (Floyd) worked out well as you can see. Interior now needs to be worked on.

Holes have been filled in the firewall in accordance with an earlier discussion.

I think the wood floor board supports are in the wrong place. The floor of this car was cut out and replaced. I believe the wooden board over the battery tray and under the seat should start at the hinge pillar and move forward. The little floor board cross member needs to be 2 1/8 inches wide and should be positioned using the wood floor boards as a guide.

These floor boards were made by NC Industries. I am in need of a steel toe board as I have misplaced the original from this car. If you have an extra or know of one that someone else has please let me know.

Chris

[Scott Bonesteel]

Chris--Looking good! I do think you are right about the location of the metal floor panel edge, it is too far forward. Attached are three photos, two of an original 33 convertible (the one the window frames I sent you came from) floor, and you can see about where the metal floor ends. I have also attached a photo of a 34 PE coupe floor, which is configured about the same, for reference on the cross member and where the floorboard fits. Keep on plugging! Scott B.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Scott Bonesteel (see edit history)

[TomP]

The body is going well.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]208978[/ATTACH]

These floor boards were made by NC Industries. I am in need of a steel toe board as I have misplaced the original from this car. If you have an extra or know of one that someone else has please let me know.

Chris

​How much of the floor should be steel or is it just the toe board??

[1935EB]

Hi Tom,

Starting back in the rumble set area and moving forward to the hinge pillars is all steel and welded in place. The next two are wood and are removable as shown in the pictures above. The toe board is steel and it is where the gear shift lever comes through. It is screwed onto the toe board support plates. It has a provision for mounting a heat insulation matte. I am sure the firewall has one of these mattes as well but I have never seen what they look like. I am guessing horse hair covered on one side with a thin layer of black rubber as they are in my Chevrolets of the same vintage.

I removed mine back in 1979 and with three moves later, well you know the story.

Anyone having an extra one and willing to part with it would be in my debt.

Chris

[Scott Bonesteel]

Tom--Chris is right about the floor. From the pictures I posted you can see about what we mean. All of the floor behind the seat is welded in steel. There is a steel sill, about 4" or so wide, down each side with a ledge to set the floorboards into. The portion of the floor under the seat (and to which the seat tracks mount) is wood/plywood with a couple of hardwood runners on top and below where the seat tracks mount (although I have seen ones without that runner on top, with the metal seat tracks mounted directly to the plywood). This also has the battery cutout, with the door covering that cutout being metal. The floor under your feet, in front of the seat, is also plywood. The toe board is metal, with a lip at the lower/rear edge that the floorboard mounts into. Attached is a photo of a 33 Plymouth coupe showing this detail. I will look through my photos and see if I have anything more detailed. NOTE: Something else I just thought of: The bottom edge of the firewall has a 'lip' that makes it look like the toe board should also be plywood and attach there. This runs about two-thirds of the way across the bottom of the firewall, centered. That is actually a recess for the throttle linkage rod, which is covered up by the metal toe board once it is attached. SMB

Edited August 18, 2013 by Scott Bonesteel (see edit history)

[TomP]

Thanks Chris & Scott , if you look at my photo in post #35 you can see the trottle linkage from the engine side, is the toe board all one piece ?

[1935EB]

The photo in post 35 shows no toe board. It fills the empty space right to left between the two angled supports and directly below the firewall. One of these supports has the headlight dimmer switch. It is made of sheet metal with reinforcements pressed in. Chris

[Scott Bonesteel]

Tom--Here is a picture of a 34 PE floorboard which is basically the same as the 33, with some slight differences. The mounting is the same. It is all one piece and sits on top of the angled supports on either side that Chris discussed. These supports are notoriously weak and they always bend where they are welded to the floor and generally bend. I am not sure what the backing is on a 33 but my 34 Dodge humpback panel (which is basically the same in this area as a 33 Dodge/Plymouth) has a small block of wood attached to the underside to support it. In any event, the floor is one piece of steel, with the holes in it for the shifter, throttle rod and parking brake handle. SMB

[TomP]

Tom- NOTE: Something else I just thought of: The bottom edge of the firewall has a 'lip' that makes it look like the toe board should also be plywood and attach there. This runs about two-thirds of the way across the bottom of the firewall, centered. That is actually a recess for the throttle linkage rod, which is covered up by the metal toe board once it is attached. SMB

Chris, think we had our wires crossed, I was referring to the lip at the bottom of the fire wall (ref post #35). Once I have my wheel up and running that piece should be quite easy to replicate.

[GK1918]

Tom--Chris is right about the floor. From the pictures I posted you can see about what we mean. All of the floor behind the seat is welded in steel. There is a steel sill, about 4" or so wide, down each side with a ledge to set the floorboards into. The portion of the floor under the seat (and to which the seat tracks mount) is wood/plywood with a couple of hardwood runners on top and below where the seat tracks mount (although I have seen ones without that runner on top, with the metal seat tracks mounted directly to the plywood). This also has the battery cutout, with the door covering that cutout being metal. The floor under your feet, in front of the seat, is also plywood. The toe board is metal, with a lip at the lower/rear edge that the floorboard mounts into. Attached is a photo of a 33 Plymouth coupe showing this detail. I will look through my photos and see if I have anything more detailed. NOTE: Something else I just thought of: The bottom edge of the firewall has a 'lip' that makes it look like the toe board should also be plywood and attach there. This runs about two-thirds of the way across the bottom of the firewall, centered. That is actually a recess for the throttle linkage rod, which is covered up by the metal toe board o[ATTACH=CONFIG]209166[/ATTACH]

Every time I see that dash I go into a [ ???????? ]. Many many miles in those. My chances of another one is just about a fat -0-. Very first thing I ever drove around 1950. I think the last one I ever saw, was my own car, absoulutly none around here. Closest I'll get to one, is a dream. Only one 'I never had', was a 2dr sedan, and I had all other body styles.

[1935EB]

Getting the frame stripped down of rust, grime and very little old paint.

Does this mean that this is the 798 th PD Plymouth frame built?

Should it match the engine serial number or any other number? Chris

[keiser31]

Getting the frame stripped down of rust, grime and very little old paint.

Does this mean that this is the 798 th PD Plymouth frame built?

Should it match the engine serial number or any other number? Chris

[ATTACH=CONFIG]210270[/ATTACH]

If you look closer, you will see the whole number with some 1s following the 798. I'm thinking that PD-79811 is the engine number. The serial number would be all numbers. The engine numbers for the 1933 PD are from PD-1001 and go to PD-195997.

Edited August 22, 2013 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[ply33]

Getting the frame stripped down of rust, grime and very little old paint.

Does this mean that this is the 798 th PD Plymouth frame built?

Should it match the engine serial number or any other number? Chris

[ATTACH=CONFIG]210270[/ATTACH]

If you look closer, you will see the whole number with some 1s following the 798. I'm thinking that PD-79811 is the engine number. The serial number would be all numbers. The engine numbers for the 1933 PD are from PD-1001 and go to PD-195997.

On my PD, the number stamped between the running board supports on the driver side of the frame is the engine number. Well, almost. They used "PC" instead of "PD" but the digits match up. Not all digits are stamped deeply and it is a little difficult to read it.

So I agree with keiser31, that is probably the original engine number or at least the beginning part of it if you can't read it all.

[countrytravler]

We have a 33 Dodge DP. The frame numbers match the engine numbers. If the toe board is the same as the Ply, I can use that to search for a toe board. We have about a 100 of them. Also we have the reproduction side window channels.

[countrytravler]

Toe board from the 33 Dodge DP

[countrytravler]

We have reproduction parts available for this car. Also not pictured is the thumb bolt for the folding windshield.

[GK1918]

If you look closer, you will see the whole number with some 1s following the 798. I'm thinking that PD-79811 is the engine number. The serial number would be all numbers. The engine numbers for the 1933 PD are from PD-1001 and go to PD-195997.

If I am not mistaking, seems all of my PDs were in the 20????? or were they late production ones. I'll check the file cabinet. sam

[keiser31]

If I am not mistaking, seems all of my PDs were in the 20????? or were they late production ones. I'll check the file cabinet. sam

You must mean the SERIAL numbers. I was talking ENGINE numbers and I was going by this paragraph....at the bottom.

[GK1918]

Whops OK 'overtired'

[1935EB]

Thanks Countrytravler I will be in touch shortly. That Dodge toe board looks about the same. I am wondering if some other folks have an input on this?? Thanks also for showing what the "insulation panel" on the underside looks like. I remember those teeth that protrude outward and that hold this insulation in place. They were on the one that I had that "disappeared". As soon as I get a new toe board the old one will show up.

Another question, please look at the photo below. This is a 1934 PF engine in my 1933 PD frame. It looks like the flat style 1934 PE PF front engine rubber mount is used. I think the arched type rubber mount and a different front motor mount frame is used in 1933 PD models. Anyone know if this is correct? Anyone have the correct style front engine mount frame and rubber insulator that they would part with?

Antique Auto Parts Cellar looks like they have all these rubber mounts, some require a core for their vulcanization process.

Fun fun fun

Chris

[GK1918]

you guys are kiling me atleast you have something that i do not

[GK1918]

Thanks Countrytravler I will be in touch shortly. That Dodge toe board looks about the same. I am wondering if some other folks have an input on this?? Thanks also for showing what the "insulation panel" on the underside looks like. I remember those teeth that protrude outward and that hold this insulation in place. They were on the one that I had that "disappeared". As soon as I get a new toe board the old one will show up.

Another question, please look at the photo below. This is a 1934 PF engine in my 1933 PD frame. It looks like the flat style 1934 PE PF front engine rubber mount is used. I think the arched type rubber mount and a different front motor mount frame is used in 1933 PD models. Anyone know if this is correct? Anyone have the correct style front engine mount frame and rubber insulator that they would part with?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]210370[/ATTACH]

Antique Auto Parts Cellar looks like they have all these rubber mounts, some require a core for their vulcanization process.

Fun fun fun

Chris

the auto parts like in Waymoth Mass, he has it all

[1935EB]

Here is a photo of what is left of my front motor mount.

I am thinking the "U" shape should fit in the "U" shape of the engine to frame bracket in the above photo. Note it has a straight 1934 type but it looks like the 1933 PD mount shouldfit in there. My mount only has a little rubber left on it.

Chris

[1935EB]

Got some photo's of the Plymouth. They have made good progress on chassis and frame. We will be assembling the primed sheet metal panels in a few weeks for fit and form. The pictures show the running board splash apron in it's approximate position.

For the Dodge and Plymouth guy's who have done this before I have a few questions.

This car had a "fix it up restoration" in the late sixties early seventies. The running boards that came with the car were from a 34 Plymouth. and I have no idea how the pieces were originally fit together.

The front and rear of the running board and splash apron are attached to the fenders with 1/4-20 Hex Head bolts, per the parts book. The parts book indicates there are 9 tubular rivets. Do these rivets hold the bottom lip of the side splash apron to the running board? My new rubber coated running boards from Buckeye Robber do not have these holes pre drilled. There are 9 holes of the proper size in the splash apron plus 2 "new" ones. The driver side has only these 9 holes and no extras. They are about 3-16 inch in diameter. Do these 9 rivets hold the running board to the splash apron or does it only hold welting?

Along the top of the splash apron are 6 more holes about 3/16 inch in diameter. Do these hold another piece of welting with rivets as they come up against the bottom of the body or are there screws that go through these and screw up into the wood used in the frame rails of the body? These screws could also hold the welting in place here as well.

I have body webbing 1/8 inch thick to place on the top of the frame rails and to place on the body bolt brackets. The rivet heads stick up more than 1/8 inch, should I use two layers or use 1 layer at least 3/16 inch thick to accommodate those rivet heads? I have been told there are not any body bolt pads as you see on a Chevy of this time period and that only webbing is used.

The tabs that extend from the splash apron to the body bolt holes help align the splash apron. I am thinking these should be on top of the webbing and touching the bottom of the body?

Thanks for all your input, Chris

[TomP]

I have body webbing 1/8 inch thick to place on the top of the frame rails and to place on the body bolt brackets. The rivet heads stick up more than 1/8 inch, should I use two layers or use 1 layer at least 3/16 inch thick to accommodate those rivet heads? I have been told there are not any body bolt pads as you see on a Chevy of this time period and that only webbing is used.

The tabs that extend from the splash apron to the body bolt holes help align the splash apron. I am thinking these should be on top of the webbing and touching the bottom of the body?

Thanks for all your input, Chris

Hi Chris, on mine there are 2 wooden bearers that the body sits on when bolted to the chassis, I was hoping that they take up that extra height of the chassis rivets?? I'm at the car tomorrow and will check. When you talk about body webbing is that the pipped weather strip? as fitted around the fenders or a felt based strip.

[ply33]

Hi Chris, on mine there are 2 wooden bearers that the body sits on when bolted to the chassis, I was hoping that they take up that extra height of the chassis rivets?? I'm at the car tomorrow and will check. When you talk about body webbing is that the pipped weather strip? as fitted around the fenders or a felt based strip.

Webbing on my '33 PD was just canvas, about the width of the frame rail top. Not sure about the thickness. Been so long that I can't remember for sure, but I think it was on the frame with those wood pieces on top of it. I suspect it is there for anti-sqweak purposes.

[TomP]

Have now checked the body to the wooden bearers and the wood is 1/4" lower than the body, on the frame with a straight edge I'm finding that body brackets and the chassis rivet heads are level so to me the same thickness of body felt or canvas webbing should be ok.

On the question of the front engine mount I have a 34 engine fitted, the rubber mounting is 5/16" thick with 3/4" thick to the gearbox.