414TATA Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I was looking through my owners manual for my '41 Super. I see there is a rocker arm shaft oil line screen which should be changed or cleaned every 10K miles. Is this a must do as I just discovered this is supposed to be done. I doubt it has ever been cleaned or changed on my car, which now has 26,500 original miles. Have I done any harm to the engine? The car runs great and has approx. 47#s oil pressure when running 55 -60 mph. I am not due to change the oil for another 5 or 600 miles. I can take a look at the filter then.Comments? Wayne B.1941 Buick SuperFresno, Ca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 sure enough, that screen will clog up and ruin the rocker arm shaft and rocker arms. I learned years ago to take that screen out and see how far I could throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Check it now or remove as Dynaflash8's advise (he has been around straights 8's for many decades) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 sure enough, that screen will clog up and ruin the rocker arm shaft and rocker arms. I learned years ago to take that screen out and see how far I could throw it.Thanks Dynaflash8Are you saying not to replace that filter and go with out one? Thanks to all for advice. Sure appreciate the feed back.Wayne B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hey Dynaflash,This is a scary thread.Does my '40 LTD have a screen ?Any pictures available of the offender ?Should I pull mine too ? Should we all ?Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Mike,You have nothing to lose (except for maybe a gasket) by pulling it out and at least checking it.Here's a pic of the little buggers.I'm only posting this now because I can see your little green light is on. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Danny,Fibber..................My green light was not on when you posted 36 minutes ago.........But is is now..............Back to business.......O.K. so I pull the rocker box cover off. Then what..........I assume they are in the rocker shaft some place, can you "hook 'em " out or do you need to pull the shaft ?For those that follow, how many years / models does this apply to ?I'm going back to "Girls on Buick's" while "yall ponder your responses.........Mike in Colorado Edited February 3, 2013 by FLYER15015 spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike,Jolly John pushed you to buy a manual, now I'll push you to read it. :) "Oil Lubrication system"A special cylindrical screen............Danny( I know you there !!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Danny,I'll read it between moto's. Anaheim motocross is on the teleeee.Sipe's just won his heat. Dungy could not get off the line.A sad day for all us KTM riders............Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Ah Motocross, I used to race Motocross back in the good old days of the late '70s early '80s. Then I got married and didn't any more. Suzuki RM boy forever.I then took up something more sedate like buggering around with old Buicks (and MGs).As for the screen, It sits under the little oil line that comes from the head up into the rocker assembly. They do tend to gum up over time more than fill up with crud. Either way they eventually block up. If you take your oil filler off and can see a good, steady supply of oil on the tappets, I'd say you are reasonably safe. That not withstanding, for your peace of mind, it's not a big deal to rip it out and have a look see. I think I'm more inclined to leave it there but be aware that it's there and keep a regular check of it. Of course if you have an oil filter, the screen becomes redundant in which case I'd pull the screen and chuck it.Danny Edited February 3, 2013 by danhar1960 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 For those unfamiliar where where that little thimble screen is or how to get to it. There is a small oil line that goes straight verticle up to the cylinder head. Then it turns in and is attached with a small nut. Take the nut loose and pull the line away from the head. The thimble screen is in the hold. Reach in with something and pick it out of there. With modern oils it serves no real purpose if you've ever cleaned out the oil pan.....the first thing you do when you buy an oil Buick....clean out the oil pan. Discard the thimble screen so it can never clog again. Then remove the rocker arm cover to be sure the rocker arms aren't all gunked up. If it is clean out the gunk. Years ago when I was a little boy my father went through this routine with his 1939 Buick. When he removed the nuts on the rocker arm, he said the gunk practically pushed it off. He cleaned the rocker arms and then discovered the clogged up screen. He took it out and threw it away. This was about 1949 or 1950. Once I grew up and began collecting my own '39 Buicks I at least checked the screen. If it was at all clogged I got rid of it and did not replace it, even though, like Danny, I have several new screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Danny,O.K., I now consider myself scolded..........Shop manual, page 6-25 tells ya what to do.I'm headed out to the barn today to pull the little bugger out. Won't throw it away, but I'll tie a string round it and hang it on the wall.M/X last night was a real treat. Dungy (KTM) had his new rear air shock fail at the start line of his heat race, and had to run the LCQ. Barely got 2nd for a transfer spot. Lined up clear on the outside (last pick) for the main, got a good hole shot, and won the main going away.... Sipes on a suzuki came in second.Roczen won his heat and the main in the 250 class. 1st time in history KTM won both mains @ a supercross.....MG's....I bought a '53 TD in 1962. Choice was a '60 Ford Starliner and the TD for what I had to spend. Threw #3 rod on the test drive with the sales guy. He knocked $500.00 off and we towed the car home. Found a '60 Triumph TR-3 in the salvage yard that had been rolled, so we transplanted the TR-3 engine, tx, rearend into the TD. Engine had 1/4" milled off the head, 2.2 liter steel liners, 3/4 cam, and 12 lbs cut off the flywheel. We made spacers for the rear wheels so we could run the stock TD wheels just 1" wider than stock. Used Jag carbs (SU) on a home made set of headers, copied off "Spencer's" racing Triumph.That little bugger would give Jags a "fit" up to about 80mph or so. Vett's of the early '60's didn't stand a chance for the first few blocks. I always regretted selling that car, but when the first baby comes, something's gotta go.......Well enough rambling, I'm off to pull my screen..................Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Mike,The brief mention of the screen in the manual is easily missed. I'm surprised that it wasn't highlighted more wayback then.Be aware that if there is solidified gunk in that little cavity, removing it will probably dislodge bits of it. I'd be pulling the inlet to the head and the delivery tube to the rockers and cleaning that screen cavity really well just in case. The hole in the delivery tube is very small and it doesn't take much to block.Just pulling the screen may be creating a problem that you currently don't have. Danny(I miss my MGs too, especially the little MkIII Midget. It was a bit like driving a go-kart out in the traffic. :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Danny, Here are the pic's of mine, which is a '40Buick 320cid. taken this afternoon.I pulled the top "J" shaped tube AND the inlet tube you see going into the head from the filter. No screens in either. The brass nut that screws into the head (inside the valve cover) is the one with the 1/16" dia metering hole. It was partially blocked with crud, so we cleaned it in MEK and checked the hole w/ a 1/16" drill bit. All good now.Maybe cars with bypass oil filters don't have the screen.In any case, it gave me a chance to wax the valve cover again, and it didn't even cost a gasket. Life is good........I have attached pic's for those that follow.Mike in colorado Edited February 18, 2013 by FLYER15015 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 You wax the valve cover?? Now I feel bad. George will probably hate me if I don't do his. Do you think that may be the reason he sulkes sometimes?Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Is oil pressure an indicator of a clogged screen? (Low / no oil pressure or High pressure?) or no indicator in regards to clogged screen. My car shows approx. 18-20#s at idle & 47#s at 50-60 mph. Wayne B.1941 Super 51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 You wax the valve cover?? Now I feel bad. George will probably hate me if I don't do his. Do you think that may be the reason he sulkes sometimes?BenWe whacks ours!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Is oil pressure an indicator of a clogged screen? (Low / no oil pressure or High pressure?) or no indicator in regards to clogged screen. My car shows approx. 18-20#s at idle & 47#s at 50-60 mphNo . This is a small bypass stream. No oil will result in wear in rockers etc. Have you ever looked at the engine running with the valve cover off ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 You wax the valve cover?? Now I feel bad. George will probably hate me if I don't do his. Do you think that may be the reason he sulkes sometimes?BenYup, I use Meguires on the rocker box, the spark plug cover, the oil filter, and air cleaner. Haven't figured out how to do the fan.Doesn't everybody ?Gotta remember, up here in the mountains, in the winter, we've got time on our hands. Pretty sick huh ?Wayne,Low pressure is not a sign of a clogged screen. Pressure in the bypass system (on mine) comes from the gally down by the dist. Where it's routed to the filter can, and then on to the rocker shaft, then it dribbles down the push rod holes in the head and on the lifters. Eventually finds it's way down to the sump.Your numbers look good.Do you have a bypass filter on your '41 ? NAPA still carries the elements.Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Mike, I would concur with your logic. An oil filter would render the screen redundant.Wayne, I don't know if you have been asked or have already mentioned it but have you removed your oil pan to have a look see ??If not, it would be a good first step to resolving the low pressure issues.Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 In response to the questionsMy Buick does have an oil filter.I have had the pan cleaned out and at the time also had the valve cover gasket replaced. I think my mechanic would have noticed gunk in the valve area and clean it as well. I was thinking my pressure is good at 47+#s at highway speeds and about 18-20#s at idle. N0? I'll look down the oil fill with the engine running to see if I can see oil moving/splashing I was hoping not to get into the removal of the valve cover for now until I go back to my mechanic for an oil change. I will remove line coming out of the head as I can get to that fitting. (Hope if it has the filter that's the location. not the top of the line inside the valve cover) Thanks gentlemen for the information and photos it is a great help for a non mechanic like myself.Wayne B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Wayne,Just my 2 bobs worth mate but I'd leave it alone until such time that you can remove both sides of the screen cavity. At least then you can be sure that the cavity is totally clean. You maybe creating a problem in dislodging gunk that will get stuck in the oil tube to the rocker shaft.If you do have the oil filter, I think it's unlikely that you even have a screen and you're probably unnecessarily worrying. That notwithstanding, for peace of mind, I'd still get it checked out. At least you'll get a definitive answer. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks DannyI like those words "unnecessary worry":) "Miss Super" is due for her oil change in about 500 miles. I'll have it checked then.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Wayne,See my post above with the pictures.The valve cover is only 2 nuts, and have a new gasket available just in case you don't get lucky.Your oil pressure numbers are the envy of many old Buick owners, so be happy with them.The 1/16" metering hole is in the "nut" that the "J" tube nut screws into, like I said INSIDE the valve cover.Do not use an open end wrench on this brass nut. Use a 7/16" 6 sided deep socket. You don't want to round this one off, and it is tight, due to it's taper thread. The "J" tube nut (3/8") is "self swaging" like the vacuum line fittings. These were used prior to the standard brass ferrel and nut arrangement we see today. The nut actually swages down onto the tube to make the seal. Actually quite efficient for those fittings that don't require regular maintainence.What's this stuff about "my mechanic" ? You have a brother or son with a set of wrenches ? Don't you watch ALL GIRLS GARAGE ?Lets jump in here and do some work. You will be the talk of the next cocktail party............Always wondered why the call'em cocktail parties...........well that's for a separate thread............Mike in Colorado Edited February 5, 2013 by FLYER15015 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) No, I don't think if you have low oil pressure, this is where to look for the problem. It's probably worn cam bearings or main bearings, or both. Let me just say though, that I'm talking about hot oil pressure, maybe after 15-20 miles down the road. If that is cold oil pressure, it might not be so good after all. Edited February 5, 2013 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 47 over 18 pounds oil pressure in a small engine Buick. That is no concern. That's great oil pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 No, I don't think if you have low oil pressure, this is where to look for the problem. It's probably worn cam bearings or main bearings, or both. Let me just say though, that I'm talking about hot oil pressure, maybe after 15-20 miles down the road. If that is cold oil pressure, it might not be so good after all.Dynaflash8I am talking hot pressure. Meaning on a 40 - 50 mile run. So I think I am good on the pressure issue.Thanks to all for the feed back.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Straight eight Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here is what the manual shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 That picture certainly explains it all. The older manuals only make a very brief mention of it.I suppose that's why most people aren't aware of it.Which manual is the pic from ?? I couldn't find it in any manual up to '42.Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Straight eight Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) It was from the Buick Service Training Manual. Edited February 10, 2013 by Straight eight (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvelde Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I am glad this came up because I have not seen anything in my '38 or '39 Shop Manual about this screen. I did find something in the Owners Manual - kind of a one liner and easy to miss (and I have obviously missed it several times). I haven't checked to see if I have one of these, but will do soon since it is almost time for my next oil change. It will be interesting to see if there is one in there since I have a factory installed oil filter and heavy duty air cleaner.Thanks to all who have contributed to my continuing education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414TATA Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I am glad this came up because I have not seen anything in my '38 or '39 Shop Manual about this screen. I did find something in the Owners Manual - kind of a one liner and easy to miss (and I have obviously missed it several times). I haven't checked to see if I have one of these, but will do soon since it is almost time for my next oil change. It will be interesting to see if there is one in there since I have a factory installed oil filter and heavy duty air cleaner.Thanks to all who have contributed to my continuing education.JohnI am in the same situation of not knowing. I am due for an oil change as well so plan to check it out then. I am just curious how long you have owned you '39.Good luck to you.Wayne 1941 Super 51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvelde Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 JohnI am in the same situation of not knowing. I am due for an oil change as well so plan to check it out then. I am just curious how long you have owned you '39.Good luck to you.Wayne 1941 Super 51Wayne,I have had the '39 Coupe for 2 1/2 years and have put just under 5,000 fun miles on it. The upcoming oil change will be the third since I got the car.John V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greg walsh Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 On my 35 41 series I checked to see if I had a screen. I took the J-tube off and looked down into the head and didn't see one.The bottom fitting that screws into the head is just a regular 45 degree pipe fitting so I don't think it's behind there either. Anyway my rocker shaft seems to be getting plenty of oil. I don't have an external oil filter but I change the oil at least once a year[usually on my birthday,which is next week] and I only drive it about maby six times a year. Should I invest in an add on filter and where should I get one? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I managed to pick myself up a copy of that "Service Training Manual" as above. I wonder what other little gems will be in there that aren't in the Workshop Manual Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Straight eight Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I managed to pick myself up a copy of that "Service Training Manual" as above. I wonder what other little gems will be in there that aren't in the Workshop Manual DannyHere is one worth gettingIt has over 25 years of tips and hints from the Bugle with contributions from Buick Club members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) strt8,O.K. so where do we get this book of tips ?Boy, that was a dumb post, and I should know better than ask dumb questions........MIGHT LOSE MY STANDING AS A "SAGE"Anyway to edit my post, I just bought a copy (used) of the above mentioned book from Amazon for $20.00= 3.99 shipping. Pricing ranges from 20-70 bucks for the paperback version, so you all better jump on these........Now we can look stuff up, instead of making up answers that just "sound right".Mike in ColoradoGreg, check the picture above. The screen is in the SIDE OF THE HEAD where the line screws in.There are aftermarket bypass oil filters out there on e-bay, or you could harvest one from a salvage yard, from any old GM car up thru the late 50's. NAPA still carries the filter element.Hey Danny, your green light is on.................... Edited February 18, 2013 by FLYER15015 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hmmmmmm, seems I might have to come here incognito. :)I would have thought it would have been off as I was off Googling where to get a copy of this book.I was going to ask here but thought that it would be dumb to do so. :)I've also organized a copy.What other handy books should we all be having ?????Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Danny,Now that your light is still on, I'll tell you that I just bought a copy of the "tips" book AND the " service training manual" on Amazon.We old "sages" must keep up you know...........Jolly John would be proud. And I promise to read them.......... while wifey drives us to Florida next week.Mike in colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Straight eight Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Hmmmmmm, seems I might have to come here incognito. :)I would have thought it would have been off as I was off Googling where to get a copy of this book.I was going to ask here but thought that it would be dumb to do so. :)I've also organized a copy.What other handy books should we all be having ?????DannyThere is just one more, by the time you finish reading the two already mentioned, I'll have it posted:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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