6 Volt North East Key Coil

[30DodgePanel]

My Clum light switch does not match. It has only 4 terminals.

True, but if you look at that this photo below again you'll notice it's the same one, the only difference that I can see (and I may be wrong) is that the part #50239 has 2 more prongs than yours but if you look at yours closely there are 2 other locations for prongs that either may have been removed at one time or possibly did not come from the factory with them for what ever reason. I believe someone changed it to suit their needs but thats just my opinion from the little info I've seen so far. I bet if you clean those 2 rivots off you'll see gouge or cut marks of some kind.

Also, you say the switch in the diagram is square and the diagram is specific for your truck so in my thinking square switch part 40585 is original for your truck , see under "Graham-Dodge" (see photo below).

EDIT: My thinking now is that the round switch you have is incorrect. I believe that came from a Graham-Paige car Part #50239 and was simply "made to fit/work".

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[keiser31]

The switch was definitely altered. You can see where the rivets were ground down and the holes for the lock tabs.

[30DodgePanel]

Sherman, here is a pic (left photo below) of the key/lock cylinder that I believe goes on your dash that should be located just to the left of the dash panel and gauges Part #50064 is your cylinder and your key should be in the IM-000 to IM-249 range groove 1.

In the 2nd photo it shows the correct key blank stock #42755 in Groove 1 with the Octagon shaped head.

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

My clum # is 889. I give you an incorrect # before.

I am sure this has not been modified since the terminals match my wire diagram.

The page I refered to was in post# 257.

Thanks for key chart. I have no other data.

[30DodgePanel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179317[/ATTACH]My clum # is 889. I give you an incorrect # before.

I am sure this has not been modified since the terminals match my wire diagram.

The page I refered to was in post# 257.

Thanks for key chart. I have no other data.

Just curious, where did you found the #889 ? I cannot find anything on that part #.

Is that a bracket # ?

Sherman, not to be a smart*** or stoke a fire because I'm really just trying to help here, but just because the terminals line up with your wiring diagram doesn't mean it's the correct one, does it ? I'm just asking...

I mean, you yourself said and showed with that pic of your wiring diagram that the wiring diagram indeed shows a "square" unit so why would you think it's suppose to be round ? I know the wiring diagrams are not always precise due to artwork but the fact that the part #40585 is listed under Graham-Dodge for 1929 confirms it to be the square one doesn't it , or am I reading this all wrong ?. I understand why your going off the Clum #889 but I worry that you may not find your answer, which is why I was curious where you found that #.

Also, the part #40585 lines up with your diagram as well. I'm trying to learn like you are so please bear with me.

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Ron, heres another one to look at to see if it helps, figure 2 the center of the page. I have no idea what a 2249 is I'm assuming thats the engine but I don't see any indication for that number.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179290[/ATTACH]

2249 is the series of car, for instance my car is the DA series, there are DD series, DC series, 2251, series goes on and on

[Guest 1930]

Hello Ron, hopefully these will do you, if not we can do better

This is the information that was given to me with the coils............With the car parts I got there were four of the coils but none of them were any good. The high voltage coils were open circuits on three used ones and the one good one broke when I tried to use it. Therefore, I had to make a bracket to hold a modern coil behind the dash until such time as I might find a working original coil. The biggest problem with them, besides the open citcuits, is that the frame that bolts on to the 3 bolts behind the dash is thin pot metal and was all cracked on all 4 of the ones I have including one that looks like it had never been used. It shattered as soon as I tried to install it. However, I can take a photo of a coil and ignition switch setup as it is supposed to be for you. I can get it tomorrow.

Also, you are certainly correct about Seniors being hard to research, as I have been discovering. I have managed to make the special wrench needed to adjust the Watson Stabilizers thanks to the info you sent me and I have new straps so I am all ready to mount them. Thanks. I'll sent you the coil photos as soon as I can.

I took several photos of the coils and ignition locks that I have for my 2249. I will send a few at a time so it is not such a big download. The coil is marked Northeast 16989 and the key is a Briggs and Stratton DB524. The second lock I have has remade keys that are ilco 1098. Like I said the biggest problem is ythe brittleness of the pot metal. A piece broke off one of them while I was handling it to get the photos. I had to use a universal ignition switch and a modern coil for the time being. I actually tried taking one apart to see if I could possibly make a new frame out of aluminum but the whole thing shattered so I quit on that but might try later. I hope this is what you want. If not just let me know and I will see what else I can do. I just finished the master cylinder which was frozen up. That was a bit of a strange beast also. Compared to this car my 1925 coupe was like playing with tinker toys. Everything was easy to get to and work on.

I can see how it mounts behind the dash and that does look like one silly design

Edited February 20, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Just curious, where did you found the #889 ? I cannot find anything on that part #.

Is that a bracket # ?

Sherman, not to be a smart*** or stoke a fire because I'm really just trying to help here, but just because the terminals line up with your wiring diagram doesn't mean it's the correct one, does it ? I'm just asking...

I mean, you yourself said and showed with that pic of your wiring diagram that the wiring diagram indeed shows a "square" unit so why would you think it's suppose to be round ? I know the wiring diagrams are not always precise due to artwork but the fact that the part #40585 is listed under Graham-Dodge for 1929 confirms it to be the square one doesn't it , or am I reading this all wrong ?. I understand why your going off the Clum #889 but I worry that you may not find your answer, which is why I was curious where you found that #.

Also, the part #40585 lines up with your diagram as well. I'm trying to learn like you are so please bear with me.

Both trucks S114xxx (Yuba City CA) and S115xxx (Riverside CA) have identical switches.

The model # 889 is stamped in the housing and the terminal numbers are stamped in the sides.

I have seen a similar switch with six terminals in another tread.

You can do a search of the thread topics under CLUM SWITCHES.

[Guest 1930]

Both trucks S114xxx (Yuba City CA) and S115xxx (Riverside CA) have identical switches.

The model # 889 is stamped in the housing and the terminal numbers are stamped in the sides.

I have seen a similar switch with six terminals in another tread.

You can do a search of the thread topics under CLUM SWITCHES.

That has too be one tough switch to find, I never knew of this version

[Ron Lawson]

Dave Thank you so much. That is fantastic I now know what my Ignition switch barrel looks like. Next question, Has anyone got one just laying around that they wold like to sell? Small stuff like that is like hens teeth down here Thanks again for allof your help Ron

[Guest 1930]

Good job Dave

[30DodgePanel]

2249 is the series of car, for instance my car is the DA series, there are DD series, DC series, 2251, series goes on and on

UHHH,,,, yep !

See,, I told ya, I know nothing about cars and not much more about trucks..

By the way, post #287 I'm sure didn't go un-noticed. I'd like to study what it's saying so I can follow along and understand but I can't afford to right now thanks to my lastest interest. It is very interesting for sure and I know guys with the Seniors appreciate it..

[30DodgePanel]

Dave Thank you so much. That is fantastic I now know what my Ignition switch barrel looks like. Next question, Has anyone got one just laying around that they wold like to sell? Small stuff like that is like hens teeth down here Thanks again for allof your help Ron

Your welcome Ron but I really didn't do anything, Don Stewart who saved this literature deserves all the credit for anything I was able to help with, I'm just a geek who wants to learn.

Jason and the owner of the 2249 who sent him that info provided you with some great answers and surely deserves more thanks than I deserve.

[30DodgePanel]

Both trucks S114xxx (Yuba City CA) and S115xxx (Riverside CA) have identical switches.

The model # 889 is stamped in the housing and the terminal numbers are stamped in the sides.

I have seen a similar switch with six terminals in another tread.

You can do a search of the thread topics under CLUM SWITCHES.

Ok, thanks stakeside

Great, I'll do that. I'm personally trying to understand the Clum setup that your speaking of and it's frustrating because I cannot find the #889 anywhere.

[Ron Lawson]

Jason I am so sorry Thank you heaps. Iwas so excited with the information that I never noticed who posted Please forgive me Ron

[Guest 1930]

Its no problem, thank Rich Perry or RWPerry, he provided the pictures

[Ron Lawson]

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERY ONE

[Guest 1930]

UHHH,,,, yep !

See,, I told ya, I know nothing about cars and not much more about trucks..

By the way, post #287 I'm sure didn't go un-noticed. I'd like to study what it's saying so I can follow along and understand but I can't afford to right now thanks to my lastest interest. It is very interesting for sure and I know guys with the Seniors appreciate it..

Dave, try this, left hand column where it says model codes, these are the various series up until a point of 1934

The U.S built and Canadian built columns are serial numbers of first and last cars ( if known at the time of publication ) for the different series.

Edited February 21, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Dave, try this, left hand column where it says model codes, these are the various series up until a point of 1934

The U.S built and Canadian built columns are serial numbers of first and last cars ( if known at the time of publication ) for the different series.

You an all those fancy smancy books make me sick (im kidding, jealous is more like it).

Man just that one picture explains alot to me in regards to cars thanks for posing it, I've just never studied the car literature to this point. I've been very curious though and wondered if I should be buying literature when I see it so I'll definately keep my eyes out for anything original related to the DB cars from now on.

as for the understanding of the Alpha-Numeric system-

I received an email from a auto key guy (Michael) thats helping explain things via emails and here is his response to my questions regarding an explanation for the Alpha-Numeric system and how to understand it. I do have more questions out to him and am awaiting his response. Take a look at this and see if you can simplify it in laymans terms for everyone. Some aspects of this I simply do don't understand, maybe someone else will so I'm posting it to see if we can collectively find answers.

Won't let me post the message here cause there are to many images ??? Weird, I have no images in this file. I'll try posting his response in the next post seperately.

Edited February 21, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Couldn't copy and paste to Word then transfer it over here so I just printed and scanned. I sent it to Word from my email trying to consolidate it because he had a line between almost every sentence and was hard to follow.

EDIT: I know this email he sent isn't an answer to the Alpha-Numeric question but it may lead to answers later down the road so I wanted others to look at it and see if it helps direct us onto the right path.

Anyway here is what he had to say:

Edited February 21, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

RWPerry, thanks for sending those pictures. I for one was very confused in what the coil could even look like until I seen this photo. Very different ...

So Ron, that's the same exact type of coil you found ? In that case a very good score indeed. Congrats !

Thanks again RW for sending us those photos and Jason for passing them along, a big help I can't stress how helpful pics like this are.

Edited February 21, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ron Lawson]

Yes Dave thats the coil that I have. Now all I need to find is the barrel and key. wouldn't that be great although I dont like my chances Ron

[stakeside]

Ok, thanks stakeside

Great, I'll do that. I'm personally trying to understand the Clum setup that your speaking of and it's frustrating because I cannot find the #889 anywhere.

Thanks for any information you can get. Not the highest priority but would be curious if your Clum data source has a reference.

Sherman

[gundog99]

The switch casing on my N E Coil is broken,but It shouldn't be to difficult to make a new casting, possible in brass. sadly I do not have a spare barrel.

[Guest 1930]

The switch casing on my N E Coil is broken,but It shouldn't be to difficult to make a new casting, possible in brass. sadly I do not have a spare barrel.

That is very easy to make, I have done some sand casting and there is nothing complex about that part, I suggested to Ron that he have Glen Smith make him one since they are both on the same side of the ocean.

[Guest 1930]

OK forget it, Glen has already made them and cheap!

DOD-067 NORTHEAST KEY TO COIL

HOLDER 19042

Aluminium $98.00 each

http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com/Dodge.htm

Tell him Jason Anderson sent you, still looking for a good deal on that dist body

[Guest 1930]

You an all those fancy smancy books make me sick (im kidding, jealous is more like it).

Man just that one picture explains alot to me in regards to cars thanks for posing it, I've just never studied the car literature to this point. I've been very curious though and wondered if I should be buying literature when I see it so I'll definately keep my eyes out for anything original related to the DB cars from now on.

as for the understanding of the Alpha-Numeric system-

I received an email from a auto key guy (Michael) thats helping explain things via emails and here is his response to my questions regarding an explanation for the Alpha-Numeric system and how to understand it. I do have more questions out to him and am awaiting his response. Take a look at this and see if you can simplify it in laymans terms for everyone. Some aspects of this I simply do don't understand, maybe someone else will so I'm posting it to see if we can collectively find answers.

Won't let me post the message here cause there are to many images ??? Weird, I have no images in this file. I'll try posting his response in the next post seperately.

I used to get maybe one e-mail every three to six months ( when E-bay was hot with litterauture a few years ago ) with some negative comment on why do I have to buy such and such book, why didnt I let that particular car owner buy it and my reaction is still the same, chances are if that were to happen than only one person can enjoy it and make use of its information and that just plain stinks.

I have heard stories ( not going to get into that here ) about certain items that I would just about pay good money just to have the chance to see that is locked away in a D.B club members closet and they will no share it unless they decide they like you enough, these guys are not real car enthusiasts, they just enjoy the feeling of knowing things that others do not. Selfish

Anyway please assume that I enjoy talking about old cars and sharing/learning new information, that is all.

Edited February 21, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Couldn't copy and paste to Word then transfer it over here so I just printed and scanned. I sent it to Word from my email trying to consolidate it because he had a line between almost every sentence and was hard to follow.

EDIT: I know this email he sent isn't an answer to the Alpha-Numeric question but it may lead to answers later down the road so I wanted others to look at it and see if it helps direct us onto the right path.

Anyway here is what he had to say:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179389[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]179390[/ATTACH]

I have printed this out and have read it, very interesting, are you having a hard time understanding this? I think I got it so let me know if you need maybe to see it a different way.

Edited February 21, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Thanks for any information you can get. Not the highest priority but would be curious if your Clum data source has a reference.

Sherman

The source of references are :

Clum Manufacturing Co. Service Catalog Feb.1 1928 Reprint of Key Collectors International Don Stewart Editor Copyright 1979

and

Collectors Guide Antique Classic Marque Car Keys Don Stewart Editor First Edition printed May 1982 Published by Locksmith Publishing Corporation

By the way Sherman, I did some searching till late last night looking for a photo of the six prong switch but couldn't find a photo. The only thread I could find that discussed it seems that the photo was pulled or wasn't loading for whatever reason but I'll keep looking till I find a 889 reference. If you find anything let us know please. Good luck

Oh, and if your interested here is a good link if your interested in ordering. Reference # CM-01 Autolocks/switches/keys 1928 20pages $10. His name is Richard you can call him or email him for any purchases of the books they carry.

http://wclca.net/documents/don_stewart_books.pdf

[30DodgePanel]

Anyway please assume that I enjoy talking about old cars and sharing/learning new information, that is all.

Wouldn't expect anything otherwise.

Wish I had a closet full of literature, I love the research but I agree it needs to be out there for others to enjoy and learn from as well. My dream job would be working as a volunteer at the WP Chrysler museum if that tells you anything.

As for the email from Michael - I get it for the most part but another take on it would probably enlighten me more, only if and when you get time though, no rush.

I did get a return email from Michael that suggested he really isn't concerned with the Alpha system. My question was brief in short I asked- "So we should not be concerned with the Alpha-Numeric system.. it is what it is" ?

Here is his response email if interested:

dave,

in some cases the alpha has meaning, in other cases, not so much...

remember that these codes were used for things other than automobiles..

for instance, a "b" might mean buick, or might mean nothing...

if you really want to examine that aspect of the codes, then what you might want to do is get one of the older reed code books and analyze that...

because my personal interest is automobiles, i have gone through my reed code book and have pulled out all the code series that it says are related to cars...

(i can be anal like that)

even within that grouping of automobile codes, there may appear to be no rhyme or reason that a particular letter/s is/are used...

i personally don't care what their reasoning was, as long as i can identify a particular code as for an automobile...

reed code books show up on ebay occasionally... they usually run between 35 and 50 dollars...

//michael//

[Guest 1930]

Hello Dave, I am assuming at this point that you are including all D.B keys material within your re-search or am I mistaken, I am confused because you mentioned something about not being able to look further into the pictures I posted of Rons ignition unit because ......anyway I might be confused.

If you are including all D.B vehicles than I thought you might find this interesting, this is a single page from a D.B 2249 Senior automobile sales booklet. I am going to say its safe to assume that all ( at least ) 2249 Seniors ( or the first series of Seniors ) carried on this tradition of key orientation.

Anyway enjoy, I did order those books middle of last week and hope to see them maybe later this upcoming week.

I have an e-mail out to Rich asking more more info about the theft lock mentioned, I am not sure if they are referring to a trans lock or something within the ignition unit, maybe Ron will comment on this if he sees it.

Edited February 23, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Hey Jason, yeah I'm including everything that applies to pre-39 for now (including DB) but only in generic terms for keys only then I'll add things like cylinder part numbers and other devices as I find them, but paying extra attention to the DB & GB lineup.

If you ordered the books mid week then expect them no later than Wednsday. Of course your on the opposite coast so it may be later in the week depending on the USPS. BTW I did find some other locks for various uses from the other Don Stewart book I purchased from a seperate dealer, from the 1st Edition Collectors Guide I spoke of previously (see post 309) in response to stakesides question in post #303.

Here are a couple of scans that may explain just a few samples of the various devices that were available to car owners.

Edited February 23, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I like 2 and 6

[30DodgePanel]

I like 2 and 6

here ya go

Edited February 24, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Thanks, I would like to find both units

[30DodgePanel]

Thanks, I would like to find both units

what about #27 in the first scan ?

EDIT : Is 27 the one they refer to in the B&S catalogue as the "fenderwall" ?

[Guest 1930]

what about #27 in the first scan ?

EDIT : Is 27 the one they refer to in the B&S catalogue as the "fenderwall" ?

# 27 looks like a hood lock to me

Fenderwell I think you mean would be a lock that passed thru a device attached to the fender, thru the spare wheel and the back into another attachment on the other side or backside of the fender.Prevented the spare wheel from rolling away on its own.

[30DodgePanel]

Different than this model ?

[Guest 1930]

There were alot of different variations to the spare tire lock, that one in the picture looks similar to one I still have that is correct for a late 20s Chevrolet. My own Dodge spare tire lock was nothing more than a bar with a keyed lock on the end of it and as mentioned passed thru the front block ( mounted in fender ) thru the wheel and into the rear block mounted in the fender.

I will post a picture if you would like

[30DodgePanel]

There were alot of different variations to the spare tire lock, that one in the picture looks similar to one I still have that is correct for a late 20s Chevrolet. My own Dodge spare tire lock was nothing more than a bar with a keyed lock on the end of it and as mentioned passed thru the front block ( mounted in fender ) thru the wheel and into the rear block mounted in the fender.

I will post a picture if you would like

Yes, please do. I'm really stuck on interchangability regardlesss of Car or Truck and I think it's facinating the relationship that the cars and trucks shared from that era, not many other car manufacturers can say that. ...

I'd just like to know....especially with Dodge Brothers anything from pre-32 to the 29 range. I almost hate to put it like that because I feel like I'm excluding an important sweetspot within the family specifically the 28 Graham Brothers trucks but I hope you know what I mean when I stop at 29. Just prior to the transition it was more DB related and 30 was starting to lean more Dodge related (minus the Brothers) then in 31, 32 it's as if it was a curse word to continue calling "Dodge" Dodge Brothers or Graham Brothers. Pretty silly really but I think you know what I mean by that. I think it's an honor to call my truck a 1930 Dodge Brothers Panel truck. Maybe it's just me though... but technically speaking thats not what its called because of the take over and thats fine but I still love the name regardless...

Edited February 24, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)