6 Volt North East Key Coil

[30DodgePanel]

I did ask him where he found his book and this was his reply.......... I got mine at Amherst N.H. back when pickings were good...........He mentioned to me that he was busy, I am going to leave him alone now, hope you understand.

Totally understand, not a problem. Maybe Richard will shed some light on the differences between the catalogues when he gets time.

I'm very pleased with where this is now even though more needs to be done. I would like to touch on the Clums later sometime ( if you do decide to order some books also ) because I believe there is alot of confusion and mistakes that are out there for the DB owners especially. I just don't think some keys are made for Dodge Brothers vehicles that are being advertised as such just because they have a "DB" stamped on them.

[Guest 1930]

Start a spreadsheet, make lists or notations of original material, keep it all in order. I am working on this for the truck info. I just keep adding to it a little at a time, I know Stakeside is doing the same.

This key data is very important!

[Guest 1930]

Totally understand, not a problem. Maybe Richard will shed some light on the differences between the catalogues when he gets time.

I'm very pleased with where this is now even though more needs to be done. I would like to touch on the Clums later sometime ( if you do decide to order some books also ) because I believe there is alot of confusion and mistakes that are out there for the DB owners especially. I just don't think some keys are made for Dodge Brothers vehicles that are being advertised as such just because they have a "DB" stamped on them.

I am going to order the books at the end of the week for sure, money is tight at this moment but heck yes I am going to ride this out till we can no longer add anything

I think I know what you mean but just to re-itterate you dont have to think to think, we know now that DB is not a DB thing exclusively.

[30DodgePanel]

Start a spreadsheet, make lists or notations of original material, keep it all in order. I am working on this for the truck info. I just keep adding to it a little at a time, I know Stakeside is doing the same.

This key data is very important!

Great idea !

Can you and stakeside give me an example of your ideas and your approach though ? I wonder if we will be duplicating each others work or if that would be productive. I do like the idea of everyone taking a different approach and the more hands that are organizing this the better but I just want to make sure we are maximizing our efforts.

Besides, I have no clue how to use a spreadsheet..... is that Excel ? Sorry, I still use standardized hand written estimates and contracts in business so I'm way behind the curve on this one..

[Guest 1930]

I am/was working off of an idea that Stakeside gave me, lets see if he would like to share that info here, you may have to e-mail him.

Im going to work on something a little different here starting now, I am about as computer literate as you are but can manage one way or another. Ill let you know what I come up with.

[30DodgePanel]

OH YEAH... THIS SPREADSHEET METHOD WORKS GREAT ! Pretty simple stuff after only studying it for a few minutes too... just watch a couple of youtube tutorials

My approach is going to be as follows.

Color coding the grooves 1-17 for B&S then I'll categorize everything in order for quick reference in the future. Awesome idea. Wish I would have learned to use this years ago. So far I have 9 categories but I'm sure I'll edit more by the time it's finished.

Great idea guys.!

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ron Lawson]

Speaking of keys and ignition coils does any one have a picture of what a 2249 senior 6 switch looks like. I came accross a coil a while back and was suprised that it still worked. The coil is not a cylindrical one and the switch is combined with the coil I will be greatful for any help. Thank you Ron.

[30DodgePanel]

Speaking of keys and ignition coils does any one have a picture of what a 2249 senior 6 switch looks like. I came accross a coil a while back and was suprised that it still worked. The coil is not a cylindrical one and the switch is combined with the coil I will be greatful for any help. Thank you Ron.

You happen to know what year senior 6 ? I'll scan some switches and you tell me if they look familiar.

[30DodgePanel]

Ron,

Don't know what kind of coil your speaking of so lets start here. Does this help ? Part #40912

[Ron Lawson]

Thankyou for your reply Dave. The 2249 Senior was made from May 1927 to December 1927.The next model was the 2251 which had the same bodies but slightly different driveline I believe the ignitions are the same on both models The coil bolts up behind the dash panel and the switch is part of the coil. Its the part that fits through the dash panel that I am missing Thankyou Ron.

[Guest 1930]

Ron,

Don't know what kind of coil your speaking of so lets start here. Does this help ? Part #40912

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179104[/ATTACH]

Dave, which book is this from, one of the three that I am ordering?

[Guest 1930]

OH YEAH... THIS SPREADSHEET METHOD WORKS GREAT ! Pretty simple stuff after only studying it for a few minutes too... just watch a couple of youtube tutorials

My approach is going to be as follows.

Color coding the grooves 1-17 for B&S then I'll categorize everything in order for quick reference in the future. Awesome idea. Wish I would have learned to use this years ago. So far I have 9 categories but I'm sure I'll edit more by the time it's finished.

Great idea guys.!

Now all you need to do is find a software program you can install on your comp to keep it, I had one at one time, I lost it when I switched/up/dated operating systems, now I am having to make my own graph on paper with a ruler and then worry about trying to convert it all over to the comp. later on which is going to be a pain.

Let me know if you find that software, I have windows XP but not certain what version or what have you.

[30DodgePanel]

Thankyou for your reply Dave. The 2249 Senior was made from May 1927 to December 1927.The next model was the 2251 which had the same bodies but slightly different driveline I believe the ignitions are the same on both models The coil bolts up behind the dash panel and the switch is part of the coil. Its the part that fits through the dash panel that I am missing Thankyou Ron.

Your welcome Ron,

I understand where it's located and what purpuse the coil and switch serve but what I do not know is what this setup looks like since I've only dealt with the canister type to this point.

Let me rephrase my question:

So does the photo I provided in post #249 on page 10 of this thread mean anything to you ? Is that the type of switch your referring too ?

The book I have shows switches from 29-34 and that is the only mention of Senior in the Dodge Brothers lineup that I have found (no mention of engine type).

Maybe this general information page below showing diameters will help you. Notice in the side view picture the different parts.

Is the part your interested in located in this photo?

IF so please tell us specifically what your looking for. I believe you are looking for the part where the "D" is in the photo below, and the D is referred to as the switch case. Is that the part you need ? Although the book only dates back to 29 I would think this general information shows parts that are similar to what your looking for and should be helpful for your situation.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Dave, which book is this from, one of the three that I am ordering?

Yes sir B&S-02 Catalogue 1928-39... it's a good one... I knew you would like seeing switches in there. I know I was pleasantly surprised.

Remember we still haven't covered the Clums book or the generic Collector Guide book that I ordered from a seperate dealer. The guide book was also a compilation put together by Don Stewart years ago (I have volume 1 of 2 I believe. Vol 2 is for newer vehicles so I'm not interested). The guide is not as specific as the catalogues your ordering but there are many good examples in there for all brands of vehicles from A-Z, but it's very limited and generic info. Let me know if you want an example, theres actually alot of other useful info for a guy interested in auto keys and locks, info that we haven't touched on here.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Now all you need to do is find a software program you can install on your comp to keep it, I had one at one time, I lost it when I switched/up/dated operating systems, now I am having to make my own graph on paper with a ruler and then worry about trying to convert it all over to the comp. later on which is going to be a pain.

Let me know if you find that software, I have windows XP but not certain what version or what have you.

I have XP also. I'm just customizing a file via Excel, working out great so far but I could see where additional software may be helpful once I get my layout and approach refined. I do want to concentrate on certain terminology for quick reference since thats really my interest in all of this for quicker response time and easy access.

So as a for instance as an example if we took ole faithful 42107 and punched it in I want it to come up exactly what the many different years of vehicles, what type of vehicle, what engine, what color, what shape of key, what groove etc... I'm sure you and Sherman are thinking the same thing but I'm gonna go ahead and customize it for my own liking and once we complete things we can bounce ideas off each other for an overall summary of our findings for others in the future.

Sure can appreciate the work that Don Stewart put into this years ago before computers can't you... man that guy has my respect for sure !

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ron Lawson]

Hello Dave, Thank you for your reply What you have posted is no good to me The coil that I have has the actual switch attached The piece that I reguire is the section of this set up that goes through the dash panel I presume it should be a key and barrel part that fits into the switch on the coil Sorry I aint smart enough to post a photo of what I have Thank you

[30DodgePanel]

Thankyou for your reply Dave. The 2249 Senior was made from May 1927 to December 1927.The next model was the 2251 which had the same bodies but slightly different driveline I believe the ignitions are the same on both models The coil bolts up behind the dash panel and the switch is part of the coil. Its the part that fits through the dash panel that I am missing Thankyou Ron.

Ok, lets try this. I highlighted in yellow a different part number for you to take a look at. Is your coil similar to part # 40893 in this photo below maybe ?

[Guest 1930]

Yes sir B&S-02 Catalogue 1928-39... it's a good one... I knew you would like seeing switches in there. I know I was pleasantly surprised.

Remember we still haven't covered the Clums book or the generic Collector Guide book that I ordered from a seperate dealer. The guide book was also a compilation put together by Don Stewart years ago (I have volume 1 of 2 I believe. Vol 2 is for newer vehicles so I'm not interested). The guide is not as specific as the catalogues your ordering but there are many good examples in there for all brands of vehicles from A-Z, but it's very limited and generic info. Let me know if you want an example, theres actually alot of other useful info for a guy interested in auto keys and locks, info that we haven't touched on here.

Dave I see a B.S catalog 38-39 supp 28-39 is that the one you are referring too, going to just go ahead and order them now once I hear back from you

[Guest 1930]

I just want to be clear before I order, I am going to order B.S 1 at 7 dollars.....B.S 2 @ 14 dollars, what is B.S 3, do you have this as well, and lastly I am going to order the clum book at 10.00.

Does this sound right and will it put me where yo are at for the time being so we can know what each other is referring to?

[30DodgePanel]

Dave I see a B.S catalog 38-39 supp 28-39 is that the one you are referring too, going to just go ahead and order them now once I hear back from you

Yes, here is a note from Richard that he sent me along with a Paypal invoice via email:

"B&S-1 Auto Lock & Key Catalog, January 1933, $7 B&S-02 Auto Lock & Key Catalog, 1928-39, $14 CM-1 Clum Manufacturing Co. Service Catalog, 1928, $10"

Total for everything including shipping was $36, packaged very good and on time. When you get the Clum book let me know what you think.

Heres another link to that same website that may interest you as well:

Books & Catalogs Data

EDIT:

Yes, that is correct. No I do not have B&S 3 as it's for newer vehicles and I have no use for it, yet.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Spreadsheet update:

So far I've went through and entered all of the Groove #1's for the IM & JLs making note of Vehicle type, what the key goes to and what the year ranges are. I've entered everything for Groove 1 keys along with a note that groove 14 would have been the duplicate chosen but I am not entering all the other codes for Imitation makes of keys such as Corbin, Independant and so on.... I'm only concentrating on original keys. I do have other categories that branch off as well.

Heres a list of the other 22 codes I need to enter into the Groove 1 category with the Groove 14 as the duplicate replacement:

5 digit

A201-400

A601-800

A801-1050

BIM500-BIM749

C-50-C98

C800-C699

G260-G2749

and so on... you get the idea

*NOTE* I have no idea what cars these go to yet. I'm finding the fastest way is to follow a particular line of Alpha-Numerics until I finish with each groove # then move onto the next groove set but keep it all within one file so I can later reference things quicker. Takes alot of time though anyway you look at it.

Heres what I have for Car & Truck Manufacturers that are listed in the Groove 1 category found using the IM up to 250 the JL 750-999 . NOTE: **There are no DBs that fall under the Groove 1 category for cars or trucks**

Cars :

Chrysler 1927-31

Day Elder 1930-33

Dodge 1929-30

DeSoto 1929

Durant 1929

Gramm 1929-32

M.P. Moller 1930-31

Paramount Cab 1932

Plymouth 1929-30

Roosevelt 1929-30

Star 1928

Sterling 1929

U.S. Motors 1928-29

Trucks in Groove 1 category with IM000-249 only- *NO JL's were found for trucks in groove 1*:

Autocar 1930-32

Diamond T 1928-29

Dodge 1929-30

Fageol 1931

Fargo 1929

Kenworth 1929-30

Lange 1929

Maccar 1930-33

So that should give you and stakeside an idea of the way I'm going about it.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Ok, lets try this. I highlighted in yellow a different part number for you to take a look at. Is your coil similar to part # 40893 in this photo below maybe ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179139[/ATTACH]

I noticed the Clum switches.

Is there a model of this configuration noted in the picture? I beleive it is a model 957. It is used on my 29 DB "E" series truck.

I was able to rebuild this switch using the "Red Fiber Block" available from Restoration Supply Company. (on page 12 in catalog)

[stakeside]

Ok, lets try this. I highlighted in yellow a different part number for you to take a look at. Is your coil similar to part # 40893 in this photo below maybe ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179139[/ATTACH]

I noticed the Clum switches.

Is there a model of this configuration noted in the picture? I beleive it is a model 957. It is used on my 29 DB "E" series truck.

I was able to rebuild this switch using the "Red Fiber Block" available from Restoration Supply Company. (on page 12 in catalog)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179173[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179174[/ATTACH]

[30DodgePanel]

I noticed the Clum switches.

Is there a model of this configuration noted in the picture? I beleive it is a model 957. It is used on my 29 DB "E" series truck.

I was able to rebuild this switch using the "Red Fiber Block" available from Restoration Supply Company. (on page 12 in catalog)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179173[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179174[/ATTACH]

To me it looks like part #50239 although I'm not sure these are Clums , I believe these are Briggs and Strattons.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I believe 50239 is the correct # as well off the top of my head

[30DodgePanel]

Guys, check this out. Couldn't help it, had to post this Clum info. Stakeside made me curious and look what is in the Clum book

[30DodgePanel]

Heres a photo that clears up alot of questions

[Guest 1930]

Speaking of keys and ignition coils does any one have a picture of what a 2249 senior 6 switch looks like. I came accross a coil a while back and was suprised that it still worked. The coil is not a cylindrical one and the switch is combined with the coil I will be greatful for any help. Thank you Ron.

Just trying to bring this one back to the top Ron, I know this is not what you are specifically after but just to answer your question and for the record.

This is where I am starting, pictures below are from the 27/28 2249 series parts book

I also looked within these books

2251 preliminary parts book series carried a different number of 202892

2252 Affective serial numbers S-50001- S 60487 book shows the 202892

And after car no DB-1 carried a 203700

Will see now if any of these numbers show up in any of the N.E booklet that has pictures

I cannot seem to produce a picture, maybe one of the views 30dodgepanel posted will help, I have requested a picture though from another 2249 owner, if he has it he will either send it to me or post it here.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I know its un-related but its not often I get to help a Senior man out so scanning thru the books are a treat, they go into some pretty good detail of the wooden bodies and the parts needed for repair.

I thought you might enjoy the picture

I had to crop the heck out of the pictures unfortunately to get them to fit

[Guest 1930]

Heres a photo that clears up alot of questions

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179195[/ATTACH]

Excellent page Dave, so what can you say about it?

[30DodgePanel]

Excellent page Dave, so what can you say about it?

Just that there is some amazing historic vehicles on that page and that the 901 key when marked with a DB is truely meant for Dodge Brothers keys (from all initial appearances anyway).

I've had an interest in keys for a while now and this explains alot of my own personal confusion when looking at the many Clum designs. Again, I haven't studied this catalogue as of yet but the obvious things to me are the variety of classics that Clums covered. Just never knew...

I mean, theirs some really good stuff in here on this one page. Names like Sterling trucks, Velie, Fox, Locomobile.... it's just great information that I can't wait to jump into but I'm just happy to skim it for now.

EDIT: oh and the Miller Clums explain some recent questions I had in regards to Studebaker research I was doing not long ago if I recall.

Edited February 19, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ron Lawson]

Thanks Dave, The switch that you Hi-lighted is the swtich tht mounts on the steering column is for the head lights I believe that there is no handle on the part that I require Its just a key barrel that fits through the dash and attaches to the coil

[30DodgePanel]

Thanks Dave, The switch that you Hi-lighted is the swtich tht mounts on the steering column is for the head lights I believe that there is no handle on the part that I require Its just a key barrel that fits through the dash and attaches to the coil

Ron, when you say barrel are you referring to the key cylinder ? Check this photo below to see if it helps. Bottom right corner showing the senior 6

[30DodgePanel]

Ron, heres another one to look at to see if it helps, figure 2 the center of the page. I have no idea what a 2249 is I'm assuming thats the engine but I don't see any indication for that number.

[stakeside]

To me it looks like part #50239 although I'm not sure these are Clums , I believe these are Briggs and Strattons.

My Clum light switch does not match. It has only 4 terminals. It is an original part and Clum is stamped on the back. The wire diagram for the truck switch is different than the autos.

I was just curious if your parts book shows this model Clum light switch.

Is there a reference to my key switch? I do not have a coil attached. It is mounted on the firewall.

Sherman

[30DodgePanel]

My Clum light switch does not match. It has only 4 terminals. It is an original part and Clum is stamped on the back. The wire diagram for the truck switch is different than the autos.

I was just curious if your parts book shows this model Clum light switch.

Is there a reference to my key switch? I do not have a coil attached. It is mounted on the firewall.

Sherman

Sherman, look at post #266 on page 11, does that help your situation at all ? Those are from a Clum book.

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Sherman, also this page shows the switch index numbers. Graham/Dodge Trucks are in the middle of the page, thought maybe that number may help you too.

[stakeside]

My lever for the lights is on my steering wheel. Are there other pages. My switch is not shown on the page 16.

This my wire diagram. I notice the switch is square where mine is round.

[30DodgePanel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179294[/ATTACH]

My lever for the lights is on my steering wheel. Are there other pages. My switch is not shown on the page 16.

This my wire diagram. I notice the switch is square where mine is round.

Sorry, I'm not following. When you say page 16 do you mean page 19 ? Or are you referring to page 12 photo on post#266 ?

Also, in this photo below is this the Clum your speaking of ? If so, what are the numbers that seem to go around the outer edge ? I need more information

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

My Clum light switch does not match. It has only 4 terminals. It is an original part and Clum is stamped on the back. The wire diagram for the truck switch is different than the autos.

I was just curious if your parts book shows this model Clum light switch.

Is there a reference to my key switch? I do not have a coil attached. It is mounted on the firewall.

Sherman

When you say key switch are you referring to your ignition lock part #11 in the dash view photo I sent you ? Posting pictures of what your after will help, I only have books to go by you have the parts and the locations of where they go.

EDIT: Ok, I see, . The key switch and Ignition lock I'm assuming are the same thing but yet it's listed as ignition switch in the index of the Operation and Care manual for 3/4 ton E series trucks. Let me check..

Edited February 20, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)