6 Volt North East Key Coil

[Guest 1930]

Ok I think I have it, I am referencing part # 75102, I guess the question would still remain as too whether that is DPCD part # or would that be a Basco part #. Better yet why not both?

I do not have alot of Chrysler literature but I do have volumes 1 and 2 of their 24-33 Master Parts books, I need and will try and find volume 3. This number is not listed within volumes 1 and 2, looking thru all of my DPCD parts books they dance around that #, come close but no ball, this makes me suspicious.

I found my ( green cover ) 1940 DPCD Master parts price list for all model prior and there it is75102 use 133073........Ok go to 133073 and it has a list price of C 1.90

Thats great except C according to abbreviation breakdown in the front of the book is referencing per 100, I know things were a bit cheaper back then but I think that is a little extreme so I found the same book except this is dated Jan of 38 which means late 37 publication to Jan 38. ( brown cover ) .........75102 again and use 133076...........Ok go to 133076 and it has a list price of .30 cents a dozen, thats more like it.

Just out of curiosity I went back to the 1940 manual and looked at 133076 and it refers me to use 133073 so I can see that the C is a typo more than likely. It should have denoted a DZ instead of C.

EDIT: Very nice, I found my price parts lists supplement booklet ( no cover ) which was issued directly after the Jan 1938 booklet with a date of April 1938 and it shows both corrections I made mention of assuming above in that the 133073 and the 133076 are both referenced as .30 a dozen.

Let me know if you want pictures of the pages I referenced this info from.

Sounds like a key to me but again I am going to work on finding someone with Volume 3 of the Chrysler MPB so I can get a more concrete part description.

EDIT # 2: I guess we can see now why everyone is making the round keys as original, in my opinion I do not think that it could have gone either way, in my opinion there was at one point a reference chart/book that specified in detail what models and what year vehicles used a round head versus a hex head.

Just as a for instance I believe that the original Dodge 29/30 ignition key would have been the hex and that would have been AGAIN ANOTHER way of keeping a handle on all the different varieties of automobile manufacturers that Basco would have been supplying much like again the reasoning behind the two different grooves avail .

Technically though at this point we cant prove to anyone with documented proof that their round headed ignition key for their 1930 D.B 1 ton N.E equipped truck is the incorrect key, we can prove that it could have gone either way but I myself know better and would like to be able to prove that.

Now we need to look at still Why IM AND JL? Is it because again the volume of vehicles that were being supplied, that makes sense to me and unless you are looking at it differently I would say maybe that is a pretty good assumption.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Alot to cover !!

Wow, I'm a bit overwhelmed right now for several reasons so I'm gonna need time to let it all sink in and play catch up cause I know your onto something. Don't forget about the 76575 number either though, that may prove to be something worth following up on in the book you have.

As for the B&S catalogue AS#'s 1963 and 1080 I have some work to do to comprehend it better so I'll not speak to that just yet.

Also, 75101 and 75102 I'll have to research to catch up to where you are. Just give me time during the week though, today is gonna be busy and I have little time to help out on this topic right now.

No, post 199 isn't sinking in yet but I'll go back to it when I get more time. If I have any questions I'll ask but I think I can follow it but I just need more time. And no I do not have Vol 2 of the Reeds books

Let me start by posting the page out of Reeds Vol 1 that you requested THEN I'll go back and edit post 187 with instructions in order to make sure I'm caught up with at least those 2 items so be looking for those instruction pages I'm going to add to post 187 above. There is a ton of stuff here to work through..... I love it but just trying to get it right.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Looks like I should not have assumed that the prefix DB on the key was just a Dodge thing, as you can see that series of keys was used on other makes as well, very interesting!

True.

We MUST figure out the alphabetical system and what it means ! There has to be a reason for it and that is what I've always tried to stress in this thread.

Off topic somewhat:

We haven't even talked about the Clum key book yet or the other B&S keys that are shaped like clums with the DB stamping. Thats a whole different topic. But thats for later, for now and I don't want to get sidetracked.

[Guest 1930]

True.

We MUST figure out the alphabetical system and what it means ! There has to be a reason for it and that is what I've always tried to stress in this thread.

Off topic somewhat:

We haven't even talked about the Clum key book yet or the other B&S keys that are shaped like clums with the DB stamping. Thats a whole different topic. But thats for later, for now and I don't want to get sidetracked.

I would like to get the clum key book as well, I may just order the three you have ordered today if they arent too expensive, cannot remember. I did just recently give a snippet on the keys marked DB in that according to the pages you have submitted DB was not necessarily a DB key at least in the later years, there were other auto maunf. that used this same series of keys.

[30DodgePanel]

Ok I got it I think, we have both been under the assumption that 42017 was the only stock number being used for these keys which as you know showed groove 1 round head as a key blank, but if you look into the Alphabetical and Numerical listing of key codes you will see IM 000-IM 249 will use a groove number of either 1 or 14 and if you look at the B.S groove chart you will see that groove 14 could have been either a round head with a new/different/unseen up until this point part # of 75101 or the hex-head with a new/different/unseen up until this point of 75102.

Same information pertains to IM 500 thru IM 749

Same information pertains to JL 500-749

Same information pertains to JL 750-999

Not that this is perfectly/crystal clear to me yet but I was wondering how since these IM#s and JL#s were used with so many different manufacturers that they would have been able to have or carry so many different possible cylinder combinations and understand which keys would identify with which vehicle.

I hope this makes sense, get back with me!

I am going to try and reference part # 75102 in anything I have D.B

Edit: interesting that they show a groove # 14 on the key within the B.S groove chart and yet I do not have this number or any # on my own key, I will look into this as well.

Yes ! This makes perfect sense. Keep in mind I'm going back and reading it all to catch up but I see exactly where you are with this and where your going. I just wish I had the same literature so I could see it too.....lol

This is exactly why I said "to many sources of reference in to many different hands" . I could see it was a problem but didn't know how to explain it.

Your right on it! This is where we need to be. Gonna continue going back over your posts to play catch up. This is good

[30DodgePanel]

I would like to get the clum key book as well, I may just order the three you have ordered today if they arent too expensive, cannot remember. I did just recently give a snippet on the keys marked DB in that according to the pages you have submitted DB was not necessarily a DB key at least in the later years, there were other auto maunf. that used this same series of keys.

$36 with shipping was my cost. Richards a great contact to have too, I'd highly recommend it to anyone. And yes the DB is for other keys as well, I knew you'd notice that eventually. Now you see, I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong, I'm just trying to prove what is correct in order to get far away from the confusing aspects of it all in the future.

I'm going over your above post #201 trying to catch up still, give me a minute.

[Guest 1930]

Yes ! This makes perfect sense. Keep in mind I'm going back and reading it all to catch up but I see exactly where you are with this and where your going. I just wish I had the same literature so I could see it too.....lol

This is exactly why I said "to many sources of reference in to many different hands" . I could see it was a problem but didn't know how to explain it.

Your right on it! This is where we need to be. Gonna continue going back over your posts to play catch up. This is good

Anything you want a copy off just ask, I am going to continue playing around with all of this to see what else pops up today.

[Guest 1930]

$36 with shipping was my cost. Richards a great contact to have too, I'd highly recommend it to anyone. And yes the DB is for other keys as well, I knew you'd notice that eventually. Now you see, I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong, I'm just trying to prove what is correct in order to get far away from the confusing aspects of it all in the future.

I'm going over your above post #201 trying to catch up still, give me a minute.

Thats cheap, I am going to order them prob. as well

[30DodgePanel]

Ok I think I have it, I am referencing part # 75102, I guess the question would still remain as too whether that is DPCD part # or would that be a Basco part #. Better yet why not both?

I do not have alot of Chrysler literature but I do have volumes 1 and 2 of their 24-33 Master Parts books, I need and will try and find volume 3. This number is not listed within volumes 1 and 2, looking thru all of my DPCD parts books they dance around that #, come close but no ball, this makes me suspicious.

I found my ( green cover ) 1940 DPCD Master parts price list for all model prior and there it is75102 use 133073........Ok go to 133073 and it has a list price of C 1.90

Thats great except C according to abbreviation breakdown in the front of the book is referencing per 100, I know things were a bit cheaper back then but I think that is a little extreme so I found the same book except this is dated Jan of 38 which means late 37 publication to Jan 38. ( brown cover ) .........75102 again and use 133076...........Ok go to 133076 and it has a list price of .30 cents a dozen, thats more like it.

Just out of curiosity I went back to the 1940 manual and looked at 133076 and it refers me to use 133073 so I can see that the C is a typo more than likely. It should have denoted a DZ instead of C.

EDIT: Very nice, I found my price parts lists supplement booklet ( no cover ) which was issued directly after the Jan 1938 booklet with a date of April 1938 and it shows both corrections I made mention of assuming above in that the 133073 and the 133076 are both referenced as .30 a dozen.

Let me know if you want pictures of the pages I referenced this info from.

Sounds like a key to me but again I am going to work on finding someone with Volume 3 of the Chrysler MPB so I can get a more concrete part description.

EDIT # 2: I guess we can see now why everyone is making the round keys as original, in my opinion I do not think that it could have gone either way, in my opinion there was at one point a reference chart/book that specified in detail what models and what year vehicles used a round head versus a hex head.

Just as a for instance I believe that the original Dodge 29/30 ignition key would have been the hex and that would have been AGAIN ANOTHER way of keeping a handle on all the different varieties of automobile manufacturers that Basco would have been supplying much like again the reasoning behind the two different grooves avail .

Technically though at this point we cant prove to anyone with documented proof that their round headed ignition key for their 1930 D.B 1 ton N.E equipped truck is the incorrect key, we can prove that it could have gone either way but I myself know better and would like to be able to prove that.

Now we need to look at still Why IM AND JL? Is it because again the volume of vehicles that were being supplied, that makes sense to me and unless you are looking at it differently I would say maybe that is a pretty good assumption.

Please post the information so there is no confusion.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

So what about the 76575 # ? Anything important that your fingers are covering in this photo ? What the hell is that part number for and where does it lead ? It's driving me crazy

[Guest 1930]

Please post the information so there is no confusion.

Green book, first reference 75102 3rd column not quite half way down 133073 last column

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

So what about the 76575 # ? Anything important that your fingers are covering in this photo ? What the hell is that part number for and where does it lead ? It's driving me crazy

I will see if I can find anything with that after I post the 3 books pages

[30DodgePanel]

Ok I think I have it, I am referencing part # 75102, I guess the question would still remain as too whether that is DPCD part # or would that be a Basco part #. Better yet why not both?

I do not have alot of Chrysler literature but I do have volumes 1 and 2 of their 24-33 Master Parts books, I need and will try and find volume 3. This number is not listed within volumes 1 and 2, looking thru all of my DPCD parts books they dance around that #, come close but no ball, this makes me suspicious.

I found my ( green cover ) 1940 DPCD Master parts price list for all model prior and there it is75102 use 133073........Ok go to 133073 and it has a list price of C 1.90

Thats great except C according to abbreviation breakdown in the front of the book is referencing per 100, I know things were a bit cheaper back then but I think that is a little extreme so I found the same book except this is dated Jan of 38 which means late 37 publication to Jan 38. ( brown cover ) .........75102 again and use 133076...........Ok go to 133076 and it has a list price of .30 cents a dozen, thats more like it.

Just out of curiosity I went back to the 1940 manual and looked at 133076 and it refers me to use 133073 so I can see that the C is a typo more than likely. It should have denoted a DZ instead of C.

EDIT: Very nice, I found my price parts lists supplement booklet ( no cover ) which was issued directly after the Jan 1938 booklet with a date of April 1938 and it shows both corrections I made mention of assuming above in that the 133073 and the 133076 are both referenced as .30 a dozen.

Let me know if you want pictures of the pages I referenced this info from.

Sounds like a key to me but again I am going to work on finding someone with Volume 3 of the Chrysler MPB so I can get a more concrete part description.

EDIT # 2: I guess we can see now why everyone is making the round keys as original, in my opinion I do not think that it could have gone either way, in my opinion there was at one point a reference chart/book that specified in detail what models and what year vehicles used a round head versus a hex head.

Just as a for instance I believe that the original Dodge 29/30 ignition key would have been the hex and that would have been AGAIN ANOTHER way of keeping a handle on all the different varieties of automobile manufacturers that Basco would have been supplying much like again the reasoning behind the two different grooves avail .

Technically though at this point we cant prove to anyone with documented proof that their round headed ignition key for their 1930 D.B 1 ton N.E equipped truck is the incorrect key, we can prove that it could have gone either way but I myself know better and would like to be able to prove that.

Now we need to look at still Why IM AND JL? Is it because again the volume of vehicles that were being supplied, that makes sense to me and unless you are looking at it differently I would say maybe that is a pretty good assumption.

I believe that is where we are still. Need more answers...

I am looking at it differently but I see what you mean. I just think it (the alpha numerical system) is a much more organized and simple method than it has always seemed when looking in from the outside. We'll know when we get there, I'm sure of that. But your right, the proof is still not here YET. We'll get it

Edited February 17, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Lets try this again

Ok, go

[Guest 1930]

Green book, this is about as good as it gets I guess if you want the whole page, the other books are not in great shape so I am going to have to go easier on them with a photo and prob. cropping due to size limitations we have here.

[Guest 1930]

Brown book same numbers

Maybe if you saved them to your comp. and then opened them there you can expand them, if you cannot see them let me know, I will make it happen another way

[30DodgePanel]

Ok, you had some typos on the numbers in post 211 above but I follow. 75102 and 133073 is what you were meaning to say.

Go ahead sorry for the interruption.

EDIT: I can see it fine take your time, I understand how fragile they are.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

No cover

Too many numbers/data, that is why the forum software is screwing with posting an entire page, again Ill make it happen if not sufficient.

[30DodgePanel]

No cover

Too many numbers/data, that is why the forum software is screwing with posting an entire page, again Ill make it happen if not sufficient.

It's fine don't worry about it. Do me a favor though, after we get past the 76575 number can you reset the fricken date and time on your camera ? I've got short term memory loss and I feel like I'm in a time warp everytime you post a pic...

[Guest 1930]

Trying to get that price in on the last page, someone bolted this together a long time ago so its binding is pretty tight

[Guest 1930]

It's fine don't worry about it. Do me a favor though, after we get past the 76575 number can you reset the fricken date and time on your camera ? I've got short term memory loss and I feel like I'm in a time warp everytime you post a pic...

I dont want to mess with the camera, its a good camera, I have no idea how to reset anything on it and do not want to mess with it cause then it might be not such a good camera.

[30DodgePanel]

I dont want to mess with the camera, its a good camera, I have no idea how to reset anything on it and do not want to mess with it cause then it might be not such a good camera.

LOL, I totally understand. I only mess with those kind of things when my kids are around so they can fix it when I screw it up.

[Guest 1930]

So what about the 76575 # ? Anything important that your fingers are covering in this photo ? What the hell is that part number for and where does it lead ? It's driving me crazy

76575 is a .25 cent part. None of these parts are hardware meaning nuts,bolts,screws,rivets ect ect. There is a separate parts book that covers all of the hardware including desc such as length width, finish ect, alot of pictures as well.

Ill see what else I can find on that #

EDIT: 76575 is listed in all 3 parts books ( green, brown and no cover ) as a .25 cent part. Let me look for a desc somewhere, its obviously a key, why the 2 part numbers? Let me see

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

I may have it!

Its going to take a bit though, it is listed in 3 different section of the Chrysler MPB and sections meaning entire sections of K O and Q so I am going to have to scan thru the pages and see if I can find out a plausible answer. Give me time.

Wow, have you looked in your D.B MPB, there is maybe a dozen listings. See what you can come up with

I do not know why I did not notice this before

First listing

Its listed as an early gearshift lock key for cars no A483723-875380

It goes on and on throughout the book as various keys for different model D.B autos in different locations of the vehicle.

I will have to see how many times it is listed within the truck MPB

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Listed in the D.B trucks MPB manual under various models as well as the key, so where does that leave us with 75102, maybe that is a Basco part #. Like I mentioned I am going to work on getting some reference to that third volume and see if it is listed within that.

Now that I have thought of it I looked within the same parts book and that # does not appear. I need to find that desc.

Its NOT a Plymouth part number nor a Dodge part # nor a Desoto part number so that only leaves Chrysler.

Ill make a post on the Chrysler forum inquiring about the part #, at this point though it looks like that is going to be a Basco part # for what we are referencing.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I may have it!

Its going to take a bit though, it is listed in 3 different section of the Chrysler MPB and sections meaning entire sections of K O and Q so I am going to have to scan thru the pages and see if I can find out a plausible answer. Give me time.

Wow, have you looked in your D.B MPB, there is maybe a dozen listings. See what you can come up with

I do not know why I did not notice this before

First listing

Its listed as an early gearshift lock key for cars no A483723-875380

It goes on and on throughout the book as various keys for different model D.B autos in different locations of the vehicle.

I will have to see how many times it is listed within the truck MPB

I just did a quick search in my 3/4 parts list and it doesn't show.

It does show in the 1/2 ton F series 4 and 6 cylinder 109wb trucks. For 4 cylinder it reads "Ignition coil and lock key".

For the 6 cylinder setup it reads "Ignition coil Switch lock keys" 2 keys per each truck.

That same scenario also applies to the 2 ton trucks, both the F and E series 150 and 165"WBs.

Interesting

EDIT:

However, 76575 is not listed in the 1/2 ton Merchant Express Parts list of July 1929 Effective serial number P-1001 E series

Edited February 17, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Listed in the D.B trucks MPB manual under various models as well as the key, so where does that leave us with 75102, maybe that is a Basco part #. Like I mentioned I am going to work on getting some reference to that third volume and see if it is listed within that.

Now that I have thought of it I looked within the same parts book and that # does not appear. I need to find that desc.

Yes, that is a BASCO number not to be confused with the route we are tracking on the 76575 number from the book you have.

[30DodgePanel]

Refreshing these two scans to see if this helps.

I hope this doesn't confuse things but note the asterick on page 3 - groove 14 listed on the left part 75101. Note there is no 75102 on page 3, why ? I'm assuming it has to due with the asterick statement "Universal key blank-Use for cutting keys in grooves 1-2-3-5" meaning all keys needed duplicating should be made with the round head. WTH ! ?

[Guest 1930]

Refreshing these two scans to see if this helps.

I hope this doesn't confuse things but note the asterick on page 3 - groove 14 listed on the left part 75101. Note there is no 75102 on page 3, why ? I'm assuming it has to due with the asterick statement "Universal key blank-Use for cutting keys in grooves 1-2-3-5" meaning all keys needed duplicating should be made with the round head. WTH ! ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]178886[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]178887[/ATTACH]

There are several key numbers shown on the key identifier page that are not shown on the key blank data sheet, it does sound like replacement keys are to be cut using the round head, dosent that help to show up why again everyone assumes the round are correct?

[Guest 1930]

Ok I see it maybe, I was wondering why they would use a 42107 and a 75101, they both share the same head, makes no sense, there must be something different with the 75101, if you look at the picture closely it would appear that the groove is wider or a bit different, definitely a different shape if referencing the picture, both 75101 and 75102 have the similar looking groove and different when compared with groove 1.

Sounds like groove # 14 both keys are universal grooves meaning they can be used for a wide variety of applications when compared with groove number one which may/prob was an earlier groove and more confined to specific locks.

Because of the number of various codes needed they had to expand their key line with these universal grooves? That would be my best guess at this point.

These universal grooves in other words fit a wider range of locks

[30DodgePanel]

Ok I see it maybe, I was wondering why they would use a 42107 and a 75101, they both share the same head, makes no sense, there must be something different with the 75101, if you look at the picture closely it would appear that the groove is wider or a bit different, definitely a different shape if referencing the picture, both 75101 and 75102 have the similar looking groove and different when compared with groove 1.

Sounds like groove # 14 both keys are universal grooves meaning they can be used for a wide variety of applications when compared with groove number one which may/prob was an earlier groove and more confined to specific locks.

Because of the number of various codes needed they had to expand their key line with these universal grooves? That would be my best guess at this point.

These universal grooves in other words fit a wider range of locks

Seems logical.

Didn't want to throw you off course, just thought it needed pointing out just incase.

Ok, while we're waiting on a response from the Chrysler camp in regards to the 3rd MPB I'm gonna get sanding on one of my trucks then I have to hit a family dinner later. I'll check in later to see if anything new is added.

Thanks for the help

[Guest 1930]

Trying to understand better your post # 186 above you said .............I'm just going based off of the information I have at my disposal and we'll work it out from here but according to the photo he sent you when you compare it to the part #s in the catalogue it shows it to be a door handle cylinder................and then you said ..........and for the 30 DC-8 the part # is 50201 with cover according to the B&S 28-39 Auto lock and key catalogue...........and I agree that it is part # 50201 but I am looking at what I am assuming is the same page and it states the cylinder is for Deck ( rumble seat decklid ) tire ( spare tire or fenderwell lock ) and comp ( golg bag storage compartment )

I am not seeing where you are interpreting this cylinder as a door handle cylinder?

Ok I see the confusion now, evidently in 30 31 the same cylinder was used in various locations on various models, note however that there is not even a listing for 1930 Dodge DC-8, they only list the truck and the senior model.

Incomplete information leads to confusion

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Seems logical.

Didn't want to throw you off course, just thought it needed pointing out just incase.

Ok, while we're waiting on a response from the Chrysler camp in regards to the 3rd MPB I'm gonna get sanding on one of my trucks then I have to hit a family dinner later. I'll check in later to see if anything new is added.

Thanks for the help

I appreciate the opportunity to have to think about something, have fun

[Guest 1930]

Heres the answer, you have 6 categories, car, year, key series and code, 2 headings for ORIGINAL key blank, Original manuf.

Because of all the various lines of Dodge automobiles being built at one time ( I am assuming that you understand that for instance in 1929 there were more than just one line of cars Dodge was producing but I guess I should not assume that as you are a truck guy and even for me it is VERY confusing ) there were key series that were overlapping each other, for instance its listed 1925 - 31 DB 501-750 ( hard to read ) used ORIGINALLY both a round head and a Octagon shaped head for that series of keys, again I would surmise that this is because of the volume of key variations that need to be manufactured to keep up with the number of cars being produced.

On a sidenote I do not know if you are aware that roughly 29/30 auto theft was finally being recognized within the industry with solutions such as fedco numbers and other ways of tracking vehicles including but not limited too inter - corporate communications between dealers registering I.D numbers of absconded vehicles.

Anyway my point is that auto manuf. were pushing the jobbers whom provided these locks with needing more secure/complicated systems.

Anyway look directly below this and you will see 1930 and then JL 750-JL99 listed and again two different ORIGINAL key blanks, old faithful 42107 and another variation of the Oct head with part # 42755 which just happens to be another groove 1...........Ok with that said than I am thinking that the groove 1s were the original keys distributed with the vehicles when new, groove # 14s were as mentioned the replacement keys avail to replace the original keys, asterisk Universal key blank, universal = working on more than one cylinder ergo the wider groove, used for cutting keys in grooves 1 2 3 and 5.

Below that you will see the same information concerning the IM numbers.

Just the 42107 and 42755 keys alone would have had to of covered DA cars and truck, Senior vehicles, DC and DDs and more that I am sure I am forgetting so that is most prob. the reasoning that we see Basco using essentially the same key but designating it with Im#s and Jl #s.

In my opinion again there is still a set plan of which vehicles got which series of keys specifically, in other words just as an example I would not be the least bit surprised if a 1929 Senior car did not use the same series of keys as a 1929 DA car, one may have used JL and the other IM or maybe one used the DB series but the parts books did not car which was which because eventually they all got different variations of universal keys anyway that were cut from essentially the same blank for all intents and purposes and because of the technological progress of these times the life expectancy for these cars whilst seemingly was growing longer it was in fact becoming shorter because of out-dated advancements.

BTW the same information given above is also presented on the Key blank car equipment index sheet but it also adds/confirms what the other sheet mentioned concerning their being a long head and short head of the 42 round series groove 1 for either lock cylinders with and without key dust cover.

Edited February 17, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Quote from post # 186........I do have a question about your key in the 2nd photo below:

Can you tell me what brand of key your tire mount key is ? I cannot see the back side of it. I believe it to be a Briggs and Stratton.

Is it a B&S and does it by chance have a 1, 2 or a 5 stamped on the reverse side ? I believe you will find it to show a 1 stamp with the name Briggs and Stratton on the reverse side. Sorry but we need to work through this phase first. It will make sense as we move forward but I think that key is a "groove 1" key.

Yes it is a Briggs and Stratton

No number stamped on it other than the JL # of 830 but the key and the cylinder are a matched pair as they both carry that same #

Next question though is since we do know it is supposed to be a groove # 1 according to the 1929 locks info would it be a 42899 ( which I can find no reference to anywhere else ) or would it be the 52561 series which is has a combination series ( still trying to figure out what that is exactly ) of A801-A 1050.

Need more info on the 42899

Small cloverleaf head BTW just for reference according to the chart

Maybe you can see something I am not Dave, I am fried for the day anyway, Id like to continue these fenderwell/accessory locks and am hoping you may have some more information within one of those books that does a better job or gives clearer information on assigning specific key numbers/Basco numbers with specific locks.

We need to also touch on the door handles.

Edited February 18, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Just for reference here is another original ignition assy showing the original coil/cylinder combo

I asked this 29/30 Dodge DA owner if he had any original lock key combos for his vehicle

This is the message that he sent prior to sending me the pictures...........I have one ignition key that I believe is original. It is a Briggs and Stratton with the number IM228 stamped on it. The original ignition switch that it is stuck in is also numbered

IM228, being stamped on the side of the pot metal switch housing. I have 2 other switch housings that are stamped in the same location, IM006 and IM103. The switch with the

key does not have a DA bezel on it, may be a Standard or a Senior bezel, not sure. The other 2 switches were from DAs and all three are identical with the exception of the bezels. ...................

I am sure he will respond here if you have any more questions

Edited February 18, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Trying to understand better your post # 186 above you said .............I'm just going based off of the information I have at my disposal and we'll work it out from here but according to the photo he sent you when you compare it to the part #s in the catalogue it shows it to be a door handle cylinder................and then you said ..........and for the 30 DC-8 the part # is 50201 with cover according to the B&S 28-39 Auto lock and key catalogue...........and I agree that it is part # 50201 but I am looking at what I am assuming is the same page and it states the cylinder is for Deck ( rumble seat decklid ) tire ( spare tire or fenderwell lock ) and comp ( golg bag storage compartment )

I am not seeing where you are interpreting this cylinder as a door handle cylinder?

Ok I see the confusion now, evidently in 30 31 the same cylinder was used in various locations on various models, note however that there is not even a listing for 1930 Dodge DC-8, they only list the truck and the senior model.

Incomplete information leads to confusion

Ok good, now you see why I was confused and questioning if the key he had sent you was an ignition key. Again, my intention was not to point out or jump to a conclusion that someone is wrong, my intention is to unravel the mystery in order to try and make sense of the "key" language and how it's used according to the alpha-numerical system.

[30DodgePanel]

Quote from post # 186........I do have a question about your key in the 2nd photo below:

Can you tell me what brand of key your tire mount key is ? I cannot see the back side of it. I believe it to be a Briggs and Stratton.

Is it a B&S and does it by chance have a 1, 2 or a 5 stamped on the reverse side ? I believe you will find it to show a 1 stamp with the name Briggs and Stratton on the reverse side. Sorry but we need to work through this phase first. It will make sense as we move forward but I think that key is a "groove 1" key.

Yes it is a Briggs and Stratton

No number stamped on it other than the JL # of 830 but the key and the cylinder are a matched pair as they both carry that same #

Next question though is since we do know it is supposed to be a groove # 1 according to the 1929 locks info would it be a 42899 ( which I can find no reference to anywhere else ) or would it be the 52561 series which is has a combination series ( still trying to figure out what that is exactly ) of A801-A 1050.

Need more info on the 42899

Small cloverleaf head BTW just for reference according to the chart

Maybe you can see something I am not Dave, I am fried for the day anyway, Id like to continue these fenderwell/accessory locks and am hoping you may have some more information within one of those books that does a better job or gives clearer information on assigning specific key numbers/Basco numbers with specific locks.

We need to also touch on the door handles.

Exactly ! I went back to compare some things and came across that same info before I read your post and my conclusion is that drwatson and I have some duplicated information but there are obviously some differences and this one is profound. I'll go back and read what he said about his AS-1063 version was, I believe he thought it to be a reprint but I would like to know if he bought it used online, estate sale, or a dealer ? In other words does he have a contact where we can purchase that AS-1063 and ask the dealer what his take on the number was. I sent an email to Richard the man I purchased mine from asking about the descrepencies in the AS-1080 and the AS-1063 versions but he hasn't replied as of yet.

As for the 6 categories you mentioned I believe that is more than likely the case and understand fully how you got there but again, I want a more concrete basis for this theory. Once we get all the correct information on the table then we should go back and make a chart via editing programs and compile a more precise description as it pertains to all Dodge Brothers cars as well as Graham Brothers and Dodge Brother trucks. Who knows,,,, maybe even deserving of sticky status to help others :cool:. I'm kidding, but something like that would be helpful.

[30DodgePanel]

Just for reference here is another original ignition assy showing the original coil/cylinder combo

I asked this 29/30 Dodge DA owner if he had any original lock key combos for his vehicle

This is the message that he sent prior to sending me the pictures...........I have one ignition key that I believe is original. It is a Briggs and Stratton with the number IM228 stamped on it. The original ignition switch that it is stuck in is also numbered

IM228, being stamped on the side of the pot metal switch housing. I have 2 other switch housings that are stamped in the same location, IM006 and IM103. The switch with the

key does not have a DA bezel on it, may be a Standard or a Senior bezel, not sure. The other 2 switches were from DAs and all three are identical with the exception of the bezels. ...................

I am sure he will respond here if you have any more questions

Now it's a matter of finding the answers and knowing where they go and how to categorize them in order to make sense of what key is precisely correct for each make of Dodge Brothers car or trucks.

For instance, we should also be considering things like the color, groove as well as numbers on these keys(and I know you are thinking about this also). Take these two keys below as an example. Both keys I believe are indentical in almost everyway possible with the design, markings, groove, shape both seem to be for DA ignitions but with only one difference... the color. Maybe the bezel is different because the previous owner did indeed have a standard or a senior and wanted to keep the look of the correct bezel but used a IM (or maybe another way of saying it is DA we just don't know yet) coil and key and decided to make it work for his situation, kinda like my original intent with my truck and coupe coil in using the correct faceplate and not the bezel.

So again my original point is ALL of the criteria needs to be followed when trying to restore one of these beauties. I understand it's just a key but it needs to be correct regardless, even if it isn't the original one would want it to be as close as possible. So, we have to understand better the color and material (brass or nickel) usage also is my point in all of this.

The information is far from complete at this point but we've made some very good progress in the last 24 hours. Excellent work Jason... man you've got some incredible literature that has helped tremendously.

The key IM 228 in post 226

and the IM 045 in post 41

EDIT:

Both keys are DA, Both are Ignition, Both are the same except color/material but why ? Year maybe ? Could the one that is nickel may have possibly been a duplicate and restamped to look original ? I doubt it from every thing I'm seeing but again, just trying to get to the truth complete truth without any guessing.

Edited February 18, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Exactly ! I went back to compare some things and came across that same info before I read your post and my conclusion is that drwatson and I have some duplicated information but there are obviously some differences and this one is profound. I'll go back and read what he said about his AS-1063 version was, I believe he thought it to be a reprint but I would like to know if he bought it used online, estate sale, or a dealer ? In other words does he have a contact where we can purchase that AS-1063 and ask the dealer what his take on the number was. I sent an email to Richard the man I purchased mine from asking about the descrepencies in the AS-1080 and the AS-1063 versions but he hasn't replied as of yet.

As for the 6 categories you mentioned I believe that is more than likely the case and understand fully how you got there but again, I want a more concrete basis for this theory. Once we get all the correct information on the table then we should go back and make a chart via editing programs and compile a more precise description as it pertains to all Dodge Brothers cars as well as Graham Brothers and Dodge Brother trucks. Who knows,,,, maybe even deserving of sticky status to help others :cool:. I'm kidding, but something like that would be helpful.

I did ask him where he found his book and this was his reply.......... I got mine at Amherst N.H. back when pickings were good...........He mentioned to me that he was busy, I am going to leave him alone now, hope you understand.