My 1931 Model 67

[Bloo]

4 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

At the very bottom of all of these doors and completely hidden by the wide board across the bottom, Buick had a board that funneled water to the center of the door where there is a gap made for draining water.  I took a couple pics of this board.  Nearly all of these original boards were completely rotted away.

I've been wondering what that looked like. I'm still not quite picturing how it fits in there. Are both those pictures of the finished board?

 

Also, since I believe you also have some 1936s, do you know how that drain was configured in 1936?

 

[JoelsBuicks]

On 11/20/2022 at 2:12 PM, Bloo said:

I've been wondering what that looked like. I'm still not quite picturing how it fits in there. Are both those pictures of the finished board?

 

Also, since I believe you also have some 1936s, do you know how that drain was configured in 1936?

 

That “funnel board”  fits in across the very bottom of the door and is actually the board that receives the nails along the bottom.  It is underneath and completely concealed by the wide board across the bottom.  The metal flange at the bottom has a gap in it to allow water to drain.  You’ll notice a little cutout area on that board that acts as a passage for the water.

 

The ‘36 doors do not have this funnel board.  Instead, they have a hole in the metal at the bottom and on each end of the door.  The skin of the ‘36 door is continuous and curls completely around and nails into the wide board across the bottom.

As I finish this 4th door I’ll try to do a better job of illustrating this.

Followup on this:  I dug out an original bottom board that directed water to the drain hole.  I hope these pics better illustrate what is going on.  I’m still amazed that there was only minor rust pitting on these doors.

Edited November 28, 2022 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[Erndog]

Believe it, or not, I actually acquired a full set of factory replacement wood for all four doors for 1930 60 Series cars. If I remember right I didn't even pay that much. As fate would have it, the doors had about the only wood that hadn't dry rotted in my car. If I EVER get to the point of installing doors on my car I will assess whether I need to replace the wood or not. For now the new wood is in storage. Probably not too many of these sets out there, I would imagine.

[JoelsBuicks]

On 11/24/2022 at 6:24 AM, Erndog said:

Believe it, or not, I actually acquired a full set of factory replacement wood for all four doors for 1930 60 Series cars. If I remember right I didn't even pay that much. As fate would have it, the doors had about the only wood that hadn't dry rotted in my car. If I EVER get to the point of installing doors on my car I will assess whether I need to replace the wood or not. For now the new wood is in storage. Probably not too many of these sets out there, I would imagine.

Wow!  That’s crazy - a factory set of replacement wood.  I wonder if they are cut exactly as original or if they modified it to be placed inside a door as opposed to the way they built it new?  
 

I ended up with some boards that were still intact and solid.  They’ll go into the same box with the others and stored forever or until someone needs them.  I just can’t bring myself to throw them away.

 

[JoelsBuicks]

The structural wood is complete for all doors.  I have been working on those horizontal boards that hold the window regulators, door latches and handles.  These have a lot of cuts and shallow areas but the good news is the old boards are fairly solid and make excellent patterns.  In fact, if it weren’t for some warping and cracking I would have considered reusing them.  
 

 

[JohnD1956]

@JoelsBuicks I want to thank you for documenting and posting all these pictures.  I feel like I have learned so much about the wood framing from them.  It has been quite an eye opener for me.  And your work looks superb!  

 

[JoelsBuicks]

You all would get a kick out of looking through my scrap wood box.  That’s where you’d find the screwups in various stages of completion.  One would think that making boards that are mirror images of each other should be straightforward.  But not for me - for some reason I lose my way, way too easily.  Frustrating!

 

Starting with the rear side windows, I test fitted the curved garnish.  There are wood filler pieces that follow the garnish curvature and their primary purpose is backing for interior cloth.  
 

These wood filler pieces are each made from two pieces in order to not use weakened cross grain wood.  I can’t use the old as patterns.  I have to measure the new opening and the trace the curve.  As you sell, I’m not done.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

I hope you’ll visit the Buick Prewar forum.  I have some questions there you might be able to help with.  Questions related to the pics below.

 

Thank You!

 

 

[pont35cpe]

Excellent job Joel.. I did the wood for my `36 Buick coupe, made it all using a table saw, miter saw, router, and belt sander. I have a David Entler wood kit for a `35 Chevy Master Coupe, some of the wood is the same, trunk/rear window, so had some new pieces for patterns. I have just started doing a set of `35 Pontiac Coupe doors, for this one, i have a wood kit that i bought in `98 on ebay, you might say i stole it, the seller did. He listed it, starting at $205, i had to work the day and time the auction went off, so i contacted the seller, offered $750. He turned me down, wanted to let the auction run its course. So i put my bid in, went to work, thinking about the auction all day, when i got home, and checked the results, i was shocked, i`m the winner, no other bids. It was mine for $205. Seller told me, kit was originally bought, by a deceased buddy of his, in the early `70s, made by a company named WoodArt, which originated in Minnesota. A couple weeks ago i looked for WoodArt on line, still in business, now located in Manteca, Ca. Owner gave me some history, he bought WoodArt approx 27yr ago from the original owner, who had been in business 20yr, and that original owner was who must have made my kit. WoodArt specializes in Ford wood. I found an ink stamp on one of the lower boards, says "WoodArt- Quality wood for Ford V8s". I have proof, that they made one Pontiac wood kit. What are you sealing your wood with?

[usnavystgc]

Joel, your work is exceptional!!!   Keep it up and thanks for keeping us posted.

[JoelsBuicks]

2 hours ago, pont35cpe said:

What are you sealing your wood with?

I’ve considered making duplicate sets of wood to help fund this restoration hobby.  I haven’t gone any further than that.  I’d be more inclined to take someone’s project and do the rewooding.  The reason is that there may be an expectation that new wood will automatically and magically fit.  But it won’t, not without some metal bending and a few severe blows with a rubber mallet. 
 

I now seal my wood with an epoxy urethane and is the same stuff as automotive clear coat.  Part of this car was sealed with water based polyurethane because I felt that it soaked in better and then the polymer cross-linking would end up being very resistant.  When I tried the epoxy clear, I thought it did better soaking in and it ends up being very resistant, even to brake fluid.  It will way outlast me and my boy who will have to deal with these cars some day.

 

thanks for weighing in!

[pont35cpe]

3 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

 

I now seal my wood with an epoxy urethane

I used a por15(is who i bought it from)product, Pellucid. Don`t know who sells it now. Has the same shiny appearance as your wood, and water just rolls off the wood.

[JoelsBuicks]

These little filler pieces behind the rear-most side windows are finished.  As near as I can tell they only serve as something to attach upholstery to.  The woodgrained metal garnish will finish this off in style.

 

[JoelsBuicks]

I need to get caught up on the progress; primarily progress on getting these doors ready for paint.  There’s a fair amount of small details.  Fortunately, the door skins were in pretty good shape leaving the body work relatively easy.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

Got the doors in the paint booth and epoxy coated.  Next, a high-build primer and more sanding to get it straight and ready for paint.

[JoelsBuicks]

Eight of the 12 door hinges were very sloppy by my standard.  I did a little calculation and found that the free play or wear would amount to about 5/8” of sag or movement at the back end of the doors.  That’s just too much to me.

 

I did some bartering with a family member who machined new hinge pins, complete with the requisite knurling near the head.  (All professional machinists that I know are perfectionists - to a painful degree at times!)

 

My job is to use an adjustable reamer to achieve the proper fit in both sides of each hinge.  Right now my arm is sore after only four hinges.  These work very well, there’ll be no sag.

 

 

[JoelsBuicks]

I’ll contend that very few pieces are ever “ready to paint.”  Rather,  the preparation reaches a point of tolerance balanced with patience and tempered by diminishing returns. In short, it’s ready to paint when you just can’t take it anymore. 
 

You sand away the 60 grit scratches after applying a liberal coat of high build primer and then you do it all again to get rid of the 180 scratches.  Then, more thick primer and 220 grit.  By now things ought to be getting right as far as ironing out the right profile.  More epoxy with 320 grit serves as a base for another coat of epoxy and then 400 wet sand.  
 

With each coat you get more serious about the quality of the spray.  Sloppiness here makes things much more difficult when sanding with the higher grits.

 

As you’ve likely figured out, I have reached my tolerance point with these doors.  They will soon get their final coat of single stage urethane.  Don’t get me wrong, they will be very nice as I am a patient person.  I suspicion that patience is a strong virtue of every single person involved in this hobby!

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[EmTee]

On 1/9/2023 at 7:00 PM, JoelsBuicks said:

...it’s ready to paint when you just can’t take it anymore.

Good thing I finished my coffee before reading that, otherwise I'm sure some would have sprayed my keyboard! 

 

Samuel Clemens couldn't have said it any better!

[usnavystgc]

As always Joel, they look outstanding and ready to paint.

[JoelsBuicks]

Today began with wet sanding (400grit) and the day ended with two dark green doors!  Once wet sanded, the doors had to be sealed.

 

 The prescribed sealing procedure is to use heavily thinned epoxy primer.  Then, within a couple hours spray the base or the single stage urethane color as in this case.  Good adhesion is a chemical bonding process according to the manufacturer. 
 

I get rather puckered up when spraying the stuff that is nearly as thin as thinner itself.  No runs, no drips, no errors allowed!  The color coat goes directly atop this with no sanding.  I set aside the harbor freight guns and pull out the Iwata LPH400.  This air hog breaks up the paint into a cloud of fine paint particles.  While I think it is terribly inefficient in paint consumption, it truly is amazing at how well it atomizes the paint.

 

The finish pics show a show the strange reflection of the paint booth ceiling.  They’re still drying tonight but it all looks pretty good.

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

I’ve been working on refurbishing the drip rail that runs nearly the whole length of the cabin just above the doors.  
 

I call it a drip rail but I have also seen it referred to as ‘rain gutter’ and ‘J-channel’.  Whatever it’s called I cannot find it reproduced.  So, while I am lucky to have the originals, the previous owner did me no favors when he ripped it away causing great distortion in the process.

 

This aluminum drip rail was first nailed to the wood and then an aluminum flap was bent down to hide the nail heads.  I suspect that this required some special tool.  
 

Now, I have to get this all straightened out and then fasten it to the body.  I can’t mess with that flap, it looks like I will have to use countersunk screws and the cover up those screw heads.  How painful!

 

 

[EmTee]

Doors look great! 

[JoelsBuicks]

Today the front doors were painted.  To me these pictures show the doors as a much brighter green than they really are.  The color is a dark green.  These turned out pretty good.  
 

im really glad to have these doors behind me.  I know there’s a lot of work still left to do but it gives me a chance to focus on something different for a while.

 

My next thing will be to get the body painted.   Thanks again for the very kind words and likes.  
 

 

 

[usnavystgc]

Those turned out great.  I so wish you were close to me so I could learn from the master.

[JoelsBuicks]

Last post was about 6 weeks ago.  I’ve got some catching up to do but I’ll start with what I did today.  As I continue to prepare the body for paint, it was time to paint the firewall and the inside of the rear fender wells.  For this I used the black epoxy primer and I let it ‘induce’ (sat mixed) for over 4 hours which is reported to help with its UV resistance. This epoxy will cure and have semi-gloss sheen.  
 

 

 

 

[JoelsBuicks]

Now to go back a few weeks.  Probably like many of us, life has a few curve balls that come in well outside our power alley.  They are all more important than my cars and so progress was a bit slow.  I’m looking for some better months ahead.

 

If you are one who sweats the small stuff, you might just be a car guy.  The pics below show a total of 80 separate pieces that got painted.

 

most notably, the hinge parts were blasted, primed and painted.  Then, they were assembled with anti sieze lubricant.   Of course I masked off a small area on the top of the pin because that takes the hammer strike.  They will get painted later.  Basically I coated these hinge parts to ensure no bare metal is left to rust and stain things.

 

 

[JoelsBuicks]

There’s plenty of discussions about over- restoration.  I would not want to try and restore this car to match how it “came off the line.”   Some of the rawness of originality would look silly on a restored example.  An example of this is evident in the two pictures below where the slight undulations of the metal show up near the original weld seams.  A cursory sanding make these stand out; actually they are subtle but nonetheless require correction.  There are a few more of these types of things on this car.  I will fix them.

 

[JoelsBuicks]

I moved the body to my paint booth to do the bodywork.  I got started with a good sanding followed by another coat of epoxy.  Any filler should be thinly applied over the epoxy.  Very little filler was required for this entire body.  I’d guess about 6 tablespoons total, primarily in 5 major areas.  Further I’d guess about 40% of that was sanded away.  It’s that thin.

 

I followed the sanded filler with a good healthy coat of 2k high-build primer applied in strategic locations to help further straighten the panels and to fill in the heavy sand scratches.  As with my previous posts concerning bodywork, I used some homemade sanding blocks to get things straight. For reference, the filler was Dolphin glaze by Upol and the blue 3M PSA sandpaper roll.  
 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

You may recall that I was trying to reuse the old aluminum drip rail that was originally nailed on with this flap folded over to conveniently hide the nail heads.  In the absence of finding new drip rail, I decided to use the old.

 

I ended up drilling the drip rail and using countersunk stainless screws.  Then, I filled over the screw heads to restore the original look.  These took a lot of time but the finish was well worth it.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

From here until paint it’s just a matter of getting all sanding scratches down to 400 grit.  Also, I go back and forth about the logistics of the two-color paint process.  Basically it’s mask on, mask off.  I think I’ve settled on painting the black part first then the dark green.  Why?  Easier to mask off the black once it’s painted.  
 

 

[JoelsBuicks]

I’m now facing the installation of that cobra long grain vinyl top.  I tried finding some online discussion about doing this but there seems to be nearly nothing out there.  
 

I need to have it installed before I paint the black, because the aluminum trim that I bought needs to be painted as well.  I’ve got a lot more thinking to do about this.  
 

There will be a backing pad, about 3mm thick below the vinyl.  The vinyl I have is far bigger that the finish piece so I’ll have plenty to grasp and stretch.  
 

We have a ways to go on this one.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

[JohnD1956]

Fascinating!  Beautiful finishes.  The firewall paint is epoxy primer. Is that different than catalyst primer? I am surprised it could sit for 4  hours and then still be workable. 

[JoelsBuicks]

14 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

The firewall paint is epoxy primer. Is that different than catalyst primer? I am surprised it could sit for 4  hours and then still be workable. 

Thanks again for the kind words.  I wish I knew a little more about these coatings but this chemistry is way beyond this chemical engineer’s expertise. I do know that there are UV inhibiting additives and that the 4 hour inducing essentially disables the destructive effects of  humidity during the curing process.  I feel safe in saying that no epoxy is entirely UV resistant because of the eventual breakdown and release of free radicals that further break down the polymer. 
 

The product (SPI) is touted as a frame and engine compartment coating and for use as a primer base for top coats.  I have found it to have a temperature temperament that requires a certain knowledge primarily based on experience - unfortunately. Further, gun adjustments are critical, especially air flow and paint flow for the initial coat.  Some occasional thinning is desired depending what you are doing with it.

 

The epoxy mixes 1:1 with the activator.  So, it’s not really a catalyst per se, but an equal component in a two part reaction.  I have used it successfully as long as 24 hours after mixing.  On the other hand, I have used catalyzed coatings that harden and start smoking in less than 30 minutes.  
 

I’ve been most impressed with this primer because of its adhesive performance.  You can’t hardly blast this stuff off of metal and the top coats (base coat or single stage urethane) seem to melt right into it and chemically bond.

 

thanks again,

Joel

[JoelsBuicks]

Today I epoxy coated the lower part of the body.  This is the part that will get the dark green. I sanded this with 320 dry and then I rubbed it with a maroon scuff pad.  
 

Although I cannot see any sand scratches in this epoxy coat, I’ll go over it with 400 grit dry and then spray a very thin coat of the epoxy over that as a seal coat for the single stage urethane topcoat. 
 

[sebastienbuick]

Beautiful work !  

[JoelsBuicks]

Yesterday, after sanding with 400 dry (3M blue) I sprayed a thinned-out seal coat of epoxy.  This morning I de-nibbed that coat using a maroon scotch bright - lightly.  Then, I painted the body with the very dark green single stage urethane.  By the way, I did my very best to match the original color as found on a well protected part.

 

This turned out better than I was expecting.  It seems that temperature and humidity make a bigger difference than you’d think.  Another thing is I got lucky in getting my gun adjusted the way  I wanted.  I struggle with this way too often.  
 

Of course, the top part is next.
 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Nice! 

[usnavystgc]

This car is going to be phenomenal!!!

[JoelsBuicks]

It’s crazy how time gets away and with so many other nagging obligations, progress has been slow.  But the good news is that I have made progress on installing the vinyl roof.

 

The black vinyl (called cobra long grain) covers the open part (non metal) of the roof as seen in previous pics.  It is held down at its perimeter by aluminum trim strips (sourced from Bob’s) that have a fold-down flap that will effectively conceal the screw heads once it is bent down.  This strip will fasten down on top of the vinyl and the vinyl then trimmed away, leaving the correct portion covered.  
 

The positioning and predrilling of these strips is fairly intuitive according to the existing perforations in the roof metal edge.  This all needs to be done prior to placing the vinyl.  

The real trick here is dealing with the curved trim pieces at the back of the car.  These strips only come in straight sections.  I had to build a jig that I used to bend the right radius for these curved corners.  That flap had to be bent down prior to the curve and so I will have to putty up those exposed screw heads on these pieces.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

When I first designed or planned for this top, I wanted just a modicum of padding below the vinyl. This was to help hide the very slight undulations and give a smooth and uniform appearance and feel.

 

The pad I used is a 3mm thick felt-like material normally used for covering interior surfaces and covering speaker boxes and such.  I sourced it off eBay and had to buy a large piece in order to not have to piece it.  It was about $50.

 

I used the 3M 77 spray adhesive to hold this stuff down.  I trimmed it at the edge of the recessed area.  I thought the thickness was a great fit.  I had everything taped and masked because that spray seems to get everywhere when I’m in control of the can.  I guess I didn’t take a pic of this after it was trimmed, rats.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)