'64 Renault Caravelle

[Amphicar BUYER]

Anybody know anything about a Renault Caravelle? I just bought one! I like the lines and it seems to be pretty rare here. I found it in Wyoming of all places! It's a cool car and the guy I bought it from needs the money to buy a 67 Tempest that is a "Barn find". I'll post pics once I have some to post of both cars. I'd prefer the tempest, but it isn't for sale. It is a "in the family car" for him. The Caravelle has a neat look. I hope it is 1/2 of what he says it is!

1100cc 4 cyl, 2 tops, NO SEATS! (he threw them out!, HUH?)

Here are a couple pics of the one I just bought...

[Guest DagoRed]

A tout pourquoi il y a (un) parce que.

[keiser31]

Nice car, but is it seaworthy?

[Rusty_OToole]

Friend of mine bought one about 20 years ago. Very cute car, I remember when they were selling them as an alternative to the Karmann Ghia VW.

The bodies are not well made. They are very prone to rusting. The convertible body was so limp, they had a gadget in the tool kit to prevent the doors popping open when you jacked it up.

I suppose they were made for French fashion models swanning around the Riviera and were never meant to last, or to be driven hard.

The basic Renault power train was used in millions of R8 and R10 sedans. Rear engine, 4 cyl water cooled, removable cylinder sleeves. Same basic engine was used in the Le Car or R5 model they sold in the late 70s - early 80s. The transaxle may have been the same too, relocated to the front with front wheel drive.

A weird feature was wheels with NO hole in the center. This made tire changing interesting as the wheel will not fit on a conventional tire machine, they had to be changed by hand. I believe the new tire machines grip the wheel by the rim and you don't have this problem anymore. Wheels held on with 3 bolts plus a bolt in the middle for the hub cap. Weird.

We had a Renault dealer around here, who sold a lot of R8 and R10 sedans in the sixties and early seventies and even a few Caravelles. So I remember a little bit about them.

They seem kind of light and flimsy but will stand up if you do not abuse them. Be sure to rust proof the body. See if you can get the original service manuals and owner's manual, maintain it by the book and it will last as long as you want it to.

I had an 84 Le Car or R5. It had the same engine, enlarged to 1400 cc. I drove the H*ll out of it, never broke it, and got 45 MPG.

You can have a lot of fun with a car like that and 45MPG is not hard to take. The rear engine design is not a problem if you keep to a normal speed. The combination of rear engine, swing axles, flimsy body, 50 years of metal fatigue and the nearest parts source being 7500 miles away should be enough incentive to slow down and smell the roses. Like I said, the power train is near indestructible so if you don't flip it into the ditch you should be able to drive it to your heart's content.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Looking at the pictures I don't see a speck of rust on it. Must be the dry Colorado climate. If you can keep it like that you will have one of the few good, original ones left. Maybe the paint will even polish up.

I'm thinking some paint or oil spray underneath and spray some waxoyl or undercoating inside the rocker panels and other enclosed places. Auto parts stores sell a Ziebart or Rusty Jones type undercoating for this purpose, it is kind of a waxy or resinous material.

Too bad about the seats. No idea where you could find new ones. Did the last owner say where he threw them?

Engine is a conventional inline 4 cyl, pushrod OHV with iron block and iron or aluminum head. The R5 had aluminum head, but I think yours will have the iron head.

Only unusual feature is removable cylinder sleeves like a tractor. If you ever take the head off leave one bolt in the middle, finger tight, and turn or push the head sideways to break the seal before you take it off. If you lift the head straight off and the cylinder sleeves stick, you can pull out the cylinder breaking the seal at the bottom of the sleeve. If this happens you have to drop the pan, take out the rods, pistons, and cylinders and replace the O rings at the bottom of the cylinders.

On the other hand, if you need to rebuild the engine, you can replace the cylinders, pistons, bearings, everything without even taking the engine out of the car.

Fifties Renaults had 3 speed transmissions but I think yours should be a 4 speed. I'm trying to rack my brain and remember if they had a hydraulic clutch, or anything else unusual. I know they had coil spring suspension all around. I did work on a few and they seemed flimsy compared to VW. But I know people who drove them for years before the bodies rusted to bits. So they can't have been too bad. The parent R8 and R10 sold in the millions so parts should still be available, up to a point. I don't know where to find them this side of France but stuff does turn up if you look for it.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

The basic Renault power train was used in millions of R8 and R10 sedans. Rear engine, 4 cyl water cooled, removable cylinder sleeves. Same basic engine was used in the Le Car or R5 model they sold in the late 70s - early 80s. The transaxle may have been the same too, relocated to the front with front wheel drive.

.

Actually there were 2 Caravelles, with a major change coming in March 1962. The 956 cc R8 engine was used from 1962 through 1964, with the R8 derived 1100 cc engine used from 1964 through 1968. Prior to that, from the introduction in 1958 through 1961 the car used a (very similar, but sharing no parts) 845 cc Dauphine engine. The chassis and suspenstion were quite different between the Dauphine and R8 based cars as well. The bodies barely showed any differences at all, and the change in 1962 could pass for a minor facelift to the casual observer.

This car appears to be an early model using the Dauphine running gear. It has the side air vents for cooling the engine, replaced by deck vents in the later models. The diagram below shows both cars using the European names (Floride for the 1958-1961 early car, Caravelle for the latter).

The History and Development of the Renault Caravelle

Edited January 4, 2013 by Dave@Moon
typo (see edit history)

[Amphicar BUYER]

Nice car, but is it seaworthy?

With enough of the magic black spray seal, it can be!

Thanks for the awesome info (especially about the sleeves!) They guy assures me the seats are loooong gone. GRRRRR! Why would you ever do that? With 2 tops (hard and convert) and general weird-ness I think this car will suit me just fine. I have found a few parts here. I hope somebody has an extra set of seats. Hopefully it's as described and worth the drive. It has 4 brand new Vredestein tires he just installed so I don't have to deal with that and $1100 worth of receipts (incl tires) I'll keep you informed. I may go this weekend to pick it up. Short drive of 200 miles ea way. It's almost in my back yard.

Keep any comments coming!

Edited January 4, 2013 by Amphicar BUYER (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Dave brings up another mystery. Seller calls it a 64 yet the pictures seem to show the earlier version with cooling air intake ahead of the rear wheels.

[rocketraider]

John, I think a 60s Renault is rare anywhere except possibly France.

It's a stylish car for sure, if you can deal with Renault weirdness. My uncle was the French car mechanic at the local British Leyland/ Peugeot/ Renault dealer and had use of a company car as a perk, so I kinda grew up with it- R10, R12, R16 were not an unusual sight at our house on Sunday afternoons. Buck often said to successfully work on a French car you had to learn to swear at it in French.

I remember him making the comparison to a tractor engine too. His true forte was tractor repair but, as he had learned to work on European stuff as an Army mechanic stationed in Portugal, when the Poo-joe dealer needed a mechanic he came highly recommended. That and he owned a Dauphine in the early 60s.

[Amphicar BUYER]

The seller has confirmed to me it is a '61 and not a '64 model. I did locate some seats in Az already. Once I am able to lay hands on it, I'll know if I can revive her or not. At any rate she is a cute car and hopefully has some fun left in it someplace. It has issues to be aware of like most cars. If nothing else, I rarely have anybody show up at my place with anything I already have here. Mostly they show up in all manner of weirdess too. Highlights so far have been '13 Stutz Bearcat (former indy car), '37 Cord, Buggatti type 37, '59 F-100, 51 Nash-car, '68 Shelby ragtop, Allard and a few others.

Weirdness? what? I will have no part of any car that is not NoRMal! Geez, now ya tell me! I think I already swear in French. My dad always said "pardon my French" after he bellowed out some popular 4 letter words. I tend to use the same words, so I must Parlay voo fronsays!

[The Continental]

Cool find. That thing is all sorts of neat looking. It looks like a '53 Stude, P1800, Mustang, and 240Z mashed into one. Before even seeing it was to be your car, I got a Amphicar vibe from it as well between the nose, stance, and top. Just don't take this one in the water.

[Rusty_OToole]

One good thing, when you open the hood the engine sits there like a boiled egg in a salad bowl. 1 barrel carb, points distributor, no electronics, everything easy to get at.

Brakes, steering, tires etc seem rather toy like compared to new cars but it weighs half what a comparable car does today.

You can have some nice rides in a car like that. Put the top down on a sunny day, don't forget your Vuarnet sun glasses, beret, cigarette holder, silk shirt and ascot LOL.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

It drives similar to a Dauphine of the era -- which is to say:

Cute, Cute, Cute....

light , precise steering,

good brakes,

moderate acceleration,

ease of maintenance,

generally decent mechanical parts availability,

lots of FUN to drive, especially with the top off...

I drove a 1958 Duaphine for a couple of years in New Jersey.

With the rear-engine / rear-wheel-drive, all of the weight is over the drive axles, and the Dauphine was fantastic in snow, a fun winter car in Colorado??? on a cold, sunny day with the top down???

If you had to, you could adapt a set of Recaro seats and be super comfortable.

Let us know how you make out with it, please.

[edselsouth1]

In the early 70s, I owned two 1959 4CV Reanults, a 1960 Dauphine, and an early Caravelle (think it was a 1960 or '61). All were fun to drive, but I liked the 4CV the best. Like to find another! All are easy to work on. Be sure the cooling system is up to par.......radiator, hoses, the moveable blind for the radiator to build temperature, and the radiator cap. (Don't ask how I know this!) A long story. Good luck with your Caravelle.

[MikeC5]

Nice find! I've never seen one before but I think it looks pretty cool. Good luck with it.