Oldsmobile turned into a Chevelle

[Guest]

Partially watched a Overhaulin episode last night. 1972 Cutlass conv. The owners wife said she wanted a solid color on the car, the car was two toned. The short deck 350 Olds engine was removed and replaced by a crate 350 Chevy....Making the Oldsmobile a Chevy. All the 1972 emission control devises and requirement ignored. Basically the crate engine only came with a crankcase devise. This is in California and a California car. The Ca. law states everything in regards to emission devises must be installed and in working order on any vehicle built from 1966 to the current year. This type of publicity is just the kind of ammunition legislators and activist need and use to try to bring those cars back into Smog check testing. Currently we don't test 0- 1965 and 1966-1975 cars that have exhaust controls.

Gone were the perfect touch to any Cutlass of that era, a set of the original Super Stock 2 wheels. Total denigration was completed by installing wheels that were so big the poor car looked like it was on steroids. One of the best looking cars of 1972 turned into a pimp mobile.

[Dave@Moon]

And you watched this show....., why?:confused:

I stopped watching these shows years ago. It started to become very rare that the historical value of the vehicle received any respect at all in any of them.

They built this car to sell the wheels and the crate motor (and maybe a few incidentals), everything else was just a pretense just like every other infomercial. If these shows don't routinely sicken you, you really don't like cars.

[joe_padavano]

And you watched this show....., why?:confused:

I'm with Dave on this. I originally watched shows like this to try to pick up technical tips. That unfortunately is not the intent of the show. Slamming in a crate motor and oversize wheels is the staple of this show. I'm not a big fan of the manufactured tension that seems to be the centerpiece of these fabrication shows, either. I only get upset when I watch them. At least my wife knows better than to call them about one of my cars!

[smithbrother]

I have never watched this show, but rest assured many do or it wouldn't have sponsors, and be on the air.

I'm NOT saying it is a good show, only that there are young ones that enjoy this stuff.

NOT ME.

Dale in Indy

Edited December 11, 2012 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[michel88]

I particularly don't like putting these huge wheels on cars. These shows are doing a disservice to all who appreciate the historical aspect of old cars. I really hate it when they "surprize" someone who has had a nice older original car that has patina but not really that bad, by fixing it up by redoing it as a custom. They proceed by changing the color, non-original interior, putting in a crate 350 and of course the big wheels. I wonder how many of the owners really like what was done to their original car?

Edited December 11, 2012 by michel88 (see edit history)

[D Yaros]

These shows represent anything but the "real world," even though they advertise as being "reality tv.

Car Collector Chronicles did an article on these shows in the Dec. issue, found here -

Dave (D.Yaros) on Scribd | Scribd

[Guest]

And you watched this show....., why?:confused:

I stopped watching these shows years ago. It started to become very rare that the historical value of the vehicle received any respect at all in any of them.

They built this car to sell the wheels and the crate motor (and maybe a few incidentals), everything else was just a pretense just like every other infomercial. If these shows don't routinely sicken you, you really don't like cars.

Gee Dave, I'm really touched that you took the time to ask why. Well I thought it should be brought up for a number of reasons but first, I did say partially watched. I watched the highlights of the show from the end. You see I just got in from working and had a spin around the channels and landed for the recaps waiting for the next hour to begin.

So now the reasons; One, destroying a very good original driver.

Two, putting the wrong engine in while bad enough and completely disregarding emission devises. This sends a bad message because it tells some people that more government control is necessary, and to other people that it's ok to modify and disregard emission devises. Some people don't even know these laws exist, so it's good to point this out.

Three, a disrespect for the Oldsmobile name and heritage. Brand image is a huge deal to car owners and even Oldsmobile found out just how much their beloved Rocket engine meant to people when they started putting Chevys in Oldsmobiles.

Four, Foose asked the owners wife ( I think it was the owners wife ) how the car should be done regarding color. She and she thought the owner wanted a solid color car, and a quick clip and a wink by Foose and he says he's doing a two tone. So another disregard for what they want because he knows better. How many people do we know like that?

That's why I thought it should be brought up again.

[smithbrother]

Anyone that KNOWS Foose, KNOWS he is as honest as they come, it is a show, it is script, and very few if any surprises occur.

I know Foose, he would NEVER paint a piece his way, unless he had been given a blank check regarding color choice.

Foose is as good a builder/artist as they come, PERIOD. I have seen him spend hours signing and drawing for adults, and children at many shows. Very few artist will take the time that Foose does.

I have never met a person that doesn't like Foose. He is NOT a KNOW-IT-ALL guy, although I will state, HE DOES KNOW MORE THAT MOST CAR FOLKS.

Dale in Indy

[old car fan]

I think the whole point is what we all believe in, Original cars.Chip is great ,no doubt,.I would rather see patina,than big wheels and a crate motor.

Edited December 12, 2012 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Guest Rust is Gold]

I can't stand these programs, either. I don't see the point in putting huge shiny wheels on an old car, or better yet, TV screens underneath. To be honest, I can't believe the American public still isn't tired of these programs. Oldsmobile is one of my favorite car brands, and I am just glad I didn't have to witness this program myself.

[Guest]

Back in the days when HGTV, The Travel Channel and Speed Vision were actually truer to what their original definition was another station called Fine or Fine Living appeared. One of the shows did a spoof on collector cars and garages. One of the owners whose collection was Italian cars and in particular Ferrari. This owner likened his passion for cars as to a collector of fine art of any kind. The only difference he explained was that he was actually able to drive his art.

Even though my cars are not in the class of Ferrari, my feelings still run the same way. I can imagine the full size models in clay going through the final shapes. On some of my cars I have literature and pictures of the process. If that isn't art I don't know what is.

Now I'm sure all these guys that do customizing are very talented guys, But one thing a true artist never does is copy another's work or even worse make over someone else's work. I mean you wouldn't buy a painting and have another artist paint a lake where a meadow once was.

If your talented enough, creative enough, then you should be designing your own cars and not be making over someone else's already hard earned work period.

[smithbrother]

helfen, I hear what you are saying, but there have been great artist that will tell you that they have/are INSPIRED by another artists works. I'm not going to say they copy, but INSPIRED. Is inspired the same as coping? Maybe, maybe in some cases. I am certain in my mind that often automotive artists/designers see elements in other designs that are incorporated in there work.

Such can also be considered smart actions, two or more heads are often better than one, IMO.

Dale in Indy

[Guest]

helfen, I hear what you are saying, but there have been great artist that will tell you that they have/are INSPIRED by another artists works. I'm not going to say they copy, but INSPIRED. Is inspired the same as coping? Maybe, maybe in some cases. I am certain in my mind that often automotive artists/designers see elements in other designs that are incorporated in there work.

Such can also be considered smart actions, two or more heads are often better than one, IMO.

Dale in Indy

Dale, inspiring work goes on all the time and those trends are not the problem and that is how ideas are built upon. 1965-1967 full size Fords look surprisingly like 1963-1965 Pontiac's with coke bottle styling and stacked headlamps and concave rear backlights. Those years of Fords are my favorites, but Ford didn't go over to Pontiac and buy their cars and make them over and that's a big difference. Just don't do over someone else's work is is all I'm saying. The brand stuff is another issue ( SBC instead of a Rocket ), and so is the lack of regard when it comes to emission devises and a owners responsibility for having them.

[rocketraider]

a disrespect for the Oldsmobile name and heritage.

Says it all in one sentence. That is the single biggest thing that pisses me off about people who insist on putting a Chevrolet engine in an Oldsmobile (or any other non-Chevrolet car for that matter)- it is blatant disregard and disrespect to the car's original drivetrain. I tend to take it personally and bristle up, as more than a few people who have done it and then thrown it in my face have found out- and it seems the Chevy engine proponents are ESPECIALLY fond of stuffing one into an Oldsmobile and then yapping about how they have "improved" the car.:mad:

I once made a guy remove his Chevy-powered 71 Cutlass from my showfield. He went whining to the Charlotte AutoFair people and they came over to try and smooth things over. I wasn't having any of that- I told them if I had to put that car in with my Oldsmobile show, ALL the Oldsmobiles would leave and not come back. They found him a show spot with one of the street machine clubs. Yeah, I was automatically labelled the bad guy and difficult to deal with, but I stood my ground.

Would you believe I feel very strongly about this thing?

[smithbrother]

rocketraider, nothing personal, I do respect your opinions, yet it seems like you don't accept those that chose to make an engine swap that YOU don't agree with?

I put a new crate motor in my 1941 Buick Limited, a 96 Chevy Corvette LT-1, and I did such for my own reasons. I wanted a fuel injection, computer controlled engine, there are enough original 41 Limited cars out there to satisfy the purest, IMO. I think it's GREAT that there are those that want to keep THEIR cars original, but I don't feel that I am be disrespectful to Buick, or Buick fans because I made a decision to make the Chevy swap. Hey, GM has built plenty of cars with other GM engines. Probably a bunch today.

I have a 46 Buick Roadmaster that I am keeping original, so I'm on both sides of the fence, and enjoying such.

I also have a custom Vette that I built in 1980, and won best of show at the very first Super Sunday Chevy Show, and can you believe it, I WAS PARKED NEXT TO A PURIST, and he was super nice to me all day long ..... Can't we all get along? Each to his own, and that includes OPINIONS.

Dale in Indy

Edited December 12, 2012 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

there are enough original 41 Limited cars out there to satisfy the purest, IMO.....

Hey, GM has built plenty of cars with other GM engines. Probably a bunch today....

Can't we all get along? Each to his own, and that includes OPINIONS.

Dale in Indy

#1, Does anybody out there have a BCA Directory so we can have a count of how many '41 Limited sedans are left?

#2, They didn't build any 1972 Cutlasses with Chevy engines. When they did start a few years later it became the beginning of the end of "old" GM. Today there really aren't any discernible GM Divisions, let alone Division engines, just a blend of "brands" that differ little more than individual Toyota models.

#3, "Getting along" and tacitly supporting something you don't agree with by contributing to an objectionable TV show's ratings are 2 different things. I wouldn't fire-bomb this thing if it drove down my street, but I likely wouldn't raise my head to look at it beyond a glance either. I just don't find "classic car" suits around modern running gear interesting. Finally, that nice running Cutlass had a future that was unlimited at one time. A stock driver of any description never diminishes in status or relevance. In 20 years what that car is now will be as passe and mundane as a 1978 Pinto-engined fake Model A (which was also considered a big improvement by many in it's day too).

=====================

Lost in all of this is helfin's observation, and most of his whole point, that this program promoted the building of an illegal car. Unless this former Cutlass lives an off-road trailer queen life from now on (highly unlikely), we've just been discussing the pros & cons of a misdemeanor. Promoting builds (and this isn't a rebuild!) like this is a deeply troubling thing for the car hobby. Helfin's statement that "This type of publicity is just the kind of ammunition legislators and activist need and use to try to bring those cars back into Smog check testing." is quite accurate, especially if this car is ever registered as an "antique" or some such specialized status someday. I used to be an environmental inspector in PA, and from a regulatory perspective if this kind of behavior becomes a mainstream thing (or is perceived as such) there would certainly be interest in making sure it's done responsibly via inspection and monitoring. Society's health and environmental concerns are at least as important as our own, and will trump any desire to skip inspections.

Watch for some kind of retraction or fine print to appear regarding this mistake. Other shows have had to do this over the years when they broke the law in a build (I once saw a TNN show have to undo some exhaust work that violated DOE specs.), and it seems there's one coming here too.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Guest]

rocketraider, nothing personal, I do respect your opinions, yet it seems like you don't accept those that chose to make an engine swap that YOU don't agree with?

I put a new crate motor in my 1941 Buick Limited, a 96 Chevy Corvette LT-1, and I did such for my own reasons. I wanted a fuel injection, computer controlled engine, there are enough original 41 Limited cars out there to satisfy the purest, IMO. I think it's GREAT that there are those that want to keep THEIR cars original, but I don't feel that I am be disrespectful to Buick, or Buick fans because I made a decision to make the Chevy swap. Hey, GM has built plenty of cars with other GM engines. Probably a bunch today.

I have a 46 Buick Roadmaster that I am keeping original, so I'm on both sides of the fence, and enjoying such.

I also have a custom Vette that I built in 1980, and won best of show at the very first Super Sunday Chevy Show, and can you believe it, I WAS PARKED NEXT TO A PURIST, and he was super nice to me all day long ..... Can't we all get along? Each to his own, and that includes OPINIONS.

Dale in Indy

I just wonder Dale, if the Super Sunday Chevy Show was a popular vote show? I just wonder if everything was exactly the same on your 80 Vette if you would have won that prize with a 455 Olds, Pontiac or Buick engine? Even Chevy guys have that feeling of Chevy engines go in Chevy's. It's just one big thing that made divisions different....and that should be respected. I have plenty of hot rod friends who feel the same way and that is if it's a 32 high boy Ford hot rod it should have a Ford engine in it. Any Ford engine from flat head to 302 to 460 as long as it's a FORD.

Dave Moon, I couldn't have made it any plainer about the legality of this poor Cutvelle. At least in my state.

Edited December 12, 2012 by helfen (see edit history)

[smithbrother]

I built my car to suit my own taste, I would do it all over again, well, a few changes, but basically the same. Just today I wrapped up the making of a carbon fiber dash, I'm a arty guy, beat to a different drum.

I respect your feelings/rights to speak your piece. If you don't like what I did to my Buick, so be it. I was born into a Buick dealership in the late 30's, and I'm a strong supporter of the Brand. Nobody is going to convince me that what I did to MY car makes me a bad person.

I paid $200.00 for my Limited, and worked my tail off for nearly 10 years just to save it, you should have seen it. I have zero regrets.

No hard feelings here.

Saying Merry Christmas, it's just one way for me to say I am celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Dale in Indy

Edited December 12, 2012 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[DAVE A]

I've watched the show a couple of times and tried to like it but there is one factor about it that really makes me angry. There is no doubt that Mr. Foose is a talented rod builder and his creations command top dollar and deservedly so. I am, however, an original car restorer and afficianado. While I respect the time and creativity of a well done street rod, I don't understand why it would be done to a restorable original car. In the case of this show, many times the owner makes clear that his intent was to restore it back to original. With the cooperation of his family (who probably does not understand his intent), the car is STOLEN, and without the owners permission made into a street rod!!! And, while the finished creation is likely more valuable than what was started with, and for the purposes of the show, I would probably appear thankful, there would undoubtedly be an extended argument at my house if it happened to one of my project cars.

[Matt Harwood]

I particularly don't like putting these huge wheels on cars. These shows are doing a disservice to all who appreciate the historical aspect of old cars. I really hate it when they "surprize" someone who has had a nice older original car that has patina but not really that bad, by fixing it up by redoing it as a custom. They proceed by changing the color, non-original interior, putting in a crate 350 and of course the big wheels. I wonder how many of the owners really like what was done to their original car?

I think there was one episode of "Overhaulin'" where the owner did NOT like what they had done. He tried to be gracious, but you could see his disappointment and horror at what had happened to his car, and Internet rumor is that the show paid to have the car repainted. There have also been lawsuits due to the "stealing" of the car and that whole gag they pull on the owner, which is why they no longer do that stunt and it's no longer a "surprise" for the owner, but instead they just walk up to him and tell him he's on the show and get ready to have them work on his car. Meh.

As Dave says, it's really a commercial for the parts that go into the build. The tension is scripted, and I seriously doubt that you can deliver a finished car in 7 days. At least, not one that anyone wants to own or drive. Foose is talented and an all-around great guy from all reports, but the show is designed to sell 1) advertising, and 2) parts from said advertisers. Nothing else.

[John_Maine]

It wasn't Overhaulin' but on a similar show a few years ago, they bought a totally original base '71 Torino 2 door sedan with a 6 cyl., 3 on the tree with power steering and an AM radio and 7,000 original miles and turned it into a fake Torino GT with a 427, 4 speed and slicks. It broke my heart. How many '71 Torino 2 door sedans with a 3 on the tree are there out there? Pure travesty.

[Guest]

It wasn't Overhaulin' but on a similar show a few years ago, they bought a totally original base '71 Torino 2 door sedan with a 6 cyl., 3 on the tree with power steering and an AM radio and 7,000 original miles and turned it into a fake Torino GT with a 427, 4 speed and slicks. It broke my heart. How many '71 Torino 2 door sedans with a 3 on the tree are there out there? Pure travesty.

John, they showed that show earlier this week and it's called Wrecks to Riches and I thought I would let that go because of the hard time people were giving asking me why I watched overhauling. Well I happened on this episode not looking for it. I stayed for the first part because I don't think I have ever seen a Torino as pristine as the one that was vandalized. The car was a time capsule, every thing in great shape and you could tell someone really looked after it. The car had if I remember correctly 7,900 miles. I stopped watching just after the disassembly started and the owner of the shop says he's going to fill in the cars side marker lamps. That was the first illegal move. I switched back to the end as the car went to auction and this guy lost more than his shirt. The paint was worse than the original, most of the cars molding was gone ( they were perfect ) and the usual emission equipment gone as well. Here is a picture of the butchered car...I wish I could find a image of before images;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14022.0;attach=21291;image

Found some;http://www.rockinghamremembered.com/sitebuilder/images/EB71Torino2-600x450.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1lMIw6IWw9CytIT7lE-YReA84SUIysylEhw3qXE9e1dKzqUbCZezJgyk-Ag

http://www.rockinghamremembered.com/sitebuilder/images/EB71Torino1-600x450.jpg

FYI, when they pulled the Ford six cylinder and trans they both looked like you could have eaten off them they were so pristine!

Edited December 15, 2012 by helfen (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

Was it "Wrecks to Riches"? I couldn't remember. I still get up set thinking about it.

[john2dameron]

I hate to drive down a street and see a 1977-90 Chevrolet Impala/Caprice roll by sitting on 22 or 24" wheels. The cars were ugly enough to start with and the wheels only make them worse. On a different note, I was at the Buick Nationals in maybe 2001 in Richmond, VA and someone brought a Chevrolet El Camino, circa 1972 in with a Buick GS front clip on it. It was one of the best looking vehicles there. That's all I'll say about it.

[rocketraider]

rocketraider, nothing personal, I do respect your opinions, yet it seems like you don't accept those that chose to make an engine swap that YOU don't agree with?

I don't. I have a very clearly defined set of core values and nowhere in them is there a tenet that I have to accept or praise things I don't agree with. You put a Chevrolet engine in an Oldsmobile and then tell me you've improved the car over the engine it came with, if you're lucky all I will do is walk away. You saw what I did to the Chevy-powered Cutlass that showed up wanting to be included in my Oldsmobile showfield and I would not hesitate to do it again. There are those who see nothing wrong with the swap; others like me see plenty wrong with it.

I don't feel that I am be disrespectful to Buick, or Buick fans because I made a decision to make the Chevy swap. Hey, GM has built plenty of cars with other GM engines. Probably a bunch today.

I know plenty of Buick (and Pontiac, and Cadillac) guys who would disagree with that statement. I know more than a few who have stopped bringing their cars to cruise nights because they don't want to listen to the Chevy/ LS engine swap crowd.

I'm also of the opinion that when GM started that corporate engine nonsense, that was the start of their high-speed descent into mediocrity.

But I am also savvy enough to realise that neither you nor I will ever change each other's opinion about Chevy-into-anything-and-everything swaps, so we should just agree to disagree and enjoy the cars.

[Dave@Moon]

Glenn, I think a lot of this current reverence for the Chevy engine has to do with the extremely cheaper nature of the swap, since Chevys have been made much longer and (unlike BOP engines) still are. That is understandable. However the people who revere the sbc IMHO generally do not recall the days when it was seen as inferior to engines of similar displacement from the "higher quality" divisions from GM. If your interest in cars begins in 1982 or later, there really was no difference between the engine you got in a new Caprice or in an Electra. So therefore a lot of people see no difference in dropping a Chevy into a Buck or Olds from the earlier era when there was a difference.

If you were to go to the rice-rocket crowd and tell them you've tossed your Acura Integra's motor for a nice/shiny Hyundai mill, they'd have the same reaction you're having to this former Oldsmobile. They understand which is the better (though not necessarily faster) engine, and will deplore the use of a cheaper motor in what they feel is a better quality car. That panache has been lost for Oldsmobile/Buick/Pontiac/Cadillac for some time now, certainly in terms of mechanics if not prestige. Many people, even many gearheads, no longer remember the better quality that went along with the higher price of these cars. They usually haven't been exposed to the authentic car hobby enough to have absorbed that aspect of these cars, and generally just see them as pretty tin boxes to put "big" motors in as inexpensively as possible.

And that stinks.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Guest]

So I guess what your saying Dave, is the people like Coddington, Foose, White, Daivd, or the rest of the TV and regular Hot rod builders haven't been exposed to the authentic car hobby enough to have absorbed that aspect of these cars, and generally just see them as pretty tin boxes to put "big" motors in as inexpensively as possible.

[smithbrother]

It's TIME to put this to REST.......

It's NONE of our/your business what folks do with their money/ideas/time, PERIOD.

If we don't enjoy/like/admire what others do, then just WALK AWAY, sure if someone asks for our opinion on their build, then HEY, go ahead and give such, but to just walk up to someone and spout off OUR/YOUR dislikes of such is just plain WRONG.

This is AMERICA, land of the FREE, like many of our Mother's said, "IF WE CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, THEN SAY NOTHING AT ALL".

I truly respect your opinions, just don't walk up at a show and tell me I'm a bad guy for putting a Chevy in my Buick.

I'm far for perfect, but I do try very hard to remain positive, and enjoy the makings of others.

Merry Christmas, it's a celibration of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Dale in Indy

Edited December 17, 2012 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[Guest]

Dale, you didn't answer the question I asked of you. I'll ask again.

If the Super Sunday Chevy Show was a popular vote show? I just wonder if everything was exactly the same on your 80 Vette if you would have won that prize with a 455 Olds, Pontiac or Buick engine?

[Guest Skyking]

I guess while you people are watching all this nonsense on television, I'm tucked in my garage restoring cars...........I don't have a clue on what you are talking about.

[paul455]

The El Camino you mentioned is the X-Camino owned and built by Duane Heckman. It is not as you described, a Chevrolet El Camino with a Buick GS front clip. It is a Skylark frame that was extended 1 foot. The inside of the bed and just the top of the roof are the only El Camino parts. Everything else is Buick! He used nos 1970 GS fenders, nos core support, nos quarters, the tailgate is from a 70 Sport Wagon. The drivetrain is Buick and the motor is a 455 Stage 1. It took him 2 years and it is the only titled 1970 Buick truck registered in PA. The car resided in my garage and is a beast on wheels! A work of art for sure!

[smithbrother]

helfen, Sorry for that...........

NO, it was judged by Super Sunday folks.

It is my understanding that since it was a Chevy show, my entry wouldn't have been accepted had it had a Buick engine.

I understand shows that have rules, like Mopar, Ford, Chevy, etc. Lots of good reasons for such, but that doesn't mean they HATE folks that swap engines. IMO.

Have a good one,

Dale in Indy

[Guest]

The El Camino you mentioned is the X-Camino owned and built by Duane Heckman. It is not as you described, a Chevrolet El Camino with a Buick GS front clip. It is a Skylark frame that was extended 1 foot. The inside of the bed and just the top of the roof are the only El Camino parts. Everything else is Buick! He used nos 1970 GS fenders, nos core support, nos quarters, the tailgate is from a 70 Sport Wagon. The drivetrain is Buick and the motor is a 455 Stage 1. It took him 2 years and it is the only titled 1970 Buick truck registered in PA. The car resided in my garage and is a beast on wheels! A work of art for sure!

Reminds me of the car Pontiac built for a styling/feasibility study in 1959;

http://image.highperformancepontiac.com/f/39366762/hppp-1202-16-o-+2011-pci-convention+1959-pontiac.jpg

[Guest]

helfen, Sorry for that...........

NO, it was judged by Super Sunday folks.

It is my understanding that since it was a Chevy show, my entry wouldn't have been accepted had it had a Buick engine.

I understand shows that have rules, like Mopar, Ford, Chevy, etc. Lots of good reasons for such, but that doesn't mean they HATE folks that swap engines. IMO.

Have a good one,

Dale in Indy

Dale, My understanding about AACA is that the club and it's shows are for promoting Antique automobiles, and with that understanding when AACA has shows it means unmodified cars. I also believe when you have a AACA web site that has a general section which is a reflection of the club and it's principals that it is understandable that members that adhere to this principal would not take lightly going back to my original topic of this thread, Oldsmobile turned into a Chevelle. The main reason I joined AACA was because of the three makes that I collect that have National clubs have swayed from their own club mission statements and permit modifying, so much so that in most cases at one of their car shows there are more modified cars than stock cars. I felt that the clubs that I belonged to were hijacked. One of the clubs was actually formed because they got tired of people at other shows called them whining purist. It was interesting how people who wanted to modify car actually joined that club and took it over! So can you now see how some of us feel. To me AACA was the only refuge, and a rather false one after joining a local chapter.

[dan at larescorp]

I remember the days when the only person my car had to please was me.

I have cars on both sides of this argument and I love them ALL like family. Simple fact is that if you don't own it, and you take the time out of your day to tell someone something negative about their car then you need more hobbies then this one.

The hot rods I have were just scrap bodies waiting to be cushed. I had the S10 frames and motors sitting at the shop. If I hadn't I wouldn't have bought them, and they would be melted down by now.

I agree it is wrong to take an unmolested car and put a sbc in it. If you have all the parts (or access to) to build it back to original then by all means that is the way you should go, but until you hand over some money for the title and keys there is not much you can say about it.

Please don't take this as a personal attack to anyone on here. This is just my opinion not directed to anyone individually.

[dan at larescorp]

Dale, My understanding about AACA is that the club and it's shows are for promoting Antique automobiles, and with that understanding when AACA has shows it means unmodified cars. I also believe when you have a AACA web site that has a general section which is a reflection of the club and it's principals that it is understandable that members that adhere to this principal would not take lightly going back to my original topic of this thread, Oldsmobile turned into a Chevelle. The main reason I joined AACA was because of the three makes that I collect that have National clubs have swayed from their own club mission statements and permit modifying, so much so that in most cases at one of their car shows there are more modified cars than stock cars. I felt that the clubs that I belonged to were hijacked. One of the clubs was actually formed because they got tired of people at other shows called them whining purist. It was interesting how people who wanted to modify car actually joined that club and took it over! So can you now see how some of us feel. To me AACA was the only refuge, and a rather false one after joining a local chapter.

I do agree that an AACA club meet is no place for a hot rod. Bringing one is asking for an argument. I was trying to say if I pull up at the store and see a well cared for car, hot rod or not, the person putting in the work deserves some respect.

[Dave@Moon]

So I guess what your saying Dave, is the people like Coddington, Foose, White, Daivd, or the rest of the TV and regular Hot rod builders haven't been exposed to the authentic car hobby enough to have absorbed that aspect of these cars, and generally just see them as pretty tin boxes to put "big" motors in as inexpensively as possible.

Judging by actions (the motivations of which are obviously distorted by TV money), yes.

[Dave@Moon]

It's TIME to put this to REST.......

It's NONE of our/your business what folks do with their money/ideas/time, PERIOD....This is AMERICA, land of the FREE, like many of our Mother's said, "IF WE CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, THEN SAY NOTHING AT ALL".

On the first count, wrong. If you like cars, and care about them, by definition it is your business. There are several definitions of the word, which in this use conflict. If you look it up in Webster's ( Business - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary ), the use I'm referring to is meaning #2a. Yours is meaning #7a.

On the second count, how are you free if you're not free to speak your mind? I think trying to wrap this up as a defense of patriotism is a fundamental error in your argument.

[rocketraider]

I truly respect your opinions, just don't walk up at a show and tell me I'm a bad guy for putting a Chevy in my Buick.

That goes two ways. Don't tell me I'm wrong for not wanting a Chevy/ LS engine in my Oldsmobiles. Yes, I have heard that from pro-swap people more than once. I've also been told I need to put Chevy Rally wheels on my stuff "so it'll look right". I'm constantly asked "why do you like them old big cars? they ain't worth nothin'. Why don't you get a Camaro or a Chevelle, or some kind of Chevrolet where's worth somethin'?" Should probably add that these people are not just trying to agitate- they are truly serious about it. It's their mentality- they can't fathom anyone who doesn't see it that way.

Whatever love I had for Chevrolets got squashed by mentalities like that, and all the cruise nights and shows around here are full of them. People have noticed I don't do cruises like I used to and when they ask me why I don't come anymore, I tell them because I'm tired of dealing with people who think GM never built anything but a 69 Camaro and Ford never built anything but a Mustang.

It is my understanding that since it was a Chevy show, my entry wouldn't have been accepted had it had a Buick engine.

Bingo.

Edited December 19, 2012 by rocketraider (see edit history)

[Guest Magoo]

I want to pitch a new reality show to the networks in which a crack team of mechanics break into Chip Foose's shop and tack cheesy wheels and graphics on his cars. Who's in?