Dwight Romberger Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Hi All,I could really use some advice.One thing led to another and I ended up firing up the rebuilt (2 years ago) engine in the '30 model 47 today.We ran it for a very short time (no radiator) when we got it back from the rebuilder. It has been sitting since then. I have turned it over with the crank periodically.Couple of weeks ago it seemed stuck. I assumed rust so I pumped some Marvel Mystery oil and BP Blaster into the cylinders. A couple of days later I was able to turn it over with the starter. I thought that was problem solved.Today when I tried it, it fired right it up. It went putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...CLUNK!Maybe whatever went clunk today is related to the problem last week. It will not turn over. It seems locked.Can anyone suggest a plan?Thanks,Dwight Edited August 13, 2012 by Dwight Romberger spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Why would you think Rust? Have you spoken with the engine builder?Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Broken timing chain? Sorry, I don't know those engines very well.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Dale, I am really a newbie at this. It seemed to me whenever an engine is stuck. the first thing to think of is rust and the remedy is a little penetrating oil in the cylinders.Grant, no timing chain. timing gear. Everytime I see that picture of your Buick I wonder if your coffee is getting cold? Edited August 13, 2012 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 See? Told you I didn't know them very well! And that coffee is well past it's use by date! Much like it's drinker!Another theory........stuck starter gear?CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I like that possibility GRant. THat would be an easy fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 [ATTACH=CONFIG]149553[/ATTACH]Hi All,I could really use some advice.One thing led to another and I ended up firing up the rebuilt (2 years ago) engine in the '30 model 47 today.We ran it for a very short time (no radiator) when we got it back from the rebuilder. It has been sitting since then. I have turned it over with the crank periodically.Couple of weeks ago it seemed stuck. I assumed rust so I pumped some Marvel Mystery oil and BP Blaster into the cylinders. A couple of days later I was able to turn it over with the starter. I thought that was problem solved.Today when I tried it, it fired right it up. It went putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...putt...CLUNK!Maybe whatever went clunk today is related to the problem last week. It will not turn over. It seems locked.Can anyone suggest a plan?Thanks,DwightDont want to scare you greatly but "clunk" does not sound good, particularly if you cant turn it over. I assume you cant turn it over with the crank handle ? if so I would not be turning it with the starter. Perhaps try putting it in top gear and then gently rock the car back and forwards to see if the engine will rotate, failing this remove the starter and go through the same excercise; if you have no success with any of this I think it might be wise to remove the sump and head to see whats going on.It is not unusual for engines that sit without being used for lengthy periods, to have the rings seize in the bore, I suspect this may have been your first problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morerevsm3 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 could be the gearbox that has th problem too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelod Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) Dwight,In light of the fact that the motor was running prior its current state of not being able to turn over, I would suggest not attempting to turn the motor over with the starter. It would be best to bite the bullet and open that engine up as necessary to discover the actual problem before exacerbating the situation by potentially making things worse. I know that no one wants to have to increase the amount of effort and dollars on the restoration of their car if not necessary but you have come this far and it would be a shame to cause any additional damage to the motor at this point. You may discover something trivial, but it is worth the extra work just for the peace of mind if nothing else. Better to be safe than sorry.Just my take on things... Thanks, Edited August 13, 2012 by michaelod (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Michael, Do you think my local mechanic could open it up to see or should I pull the engine and send it back to the rebuilder?Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelod Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) You might wish to contact the rebuilder first for suggestions. They are probably more familiar with this particular motor and if the problem turns out to be related to the rebuild itself, they may be willing to accept some of the cost of repair (if actually needed). If your local mechanic opens up the motor, then any issues found can be blamed on that mechanic by the rebuilder. In reality it's a coin toss since any warranty that came from the rebuilder has probably expired at this point.Michael Edited August 13, 2012 by michaelod (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I suggest you pull the plugs to eliminate compression, add MMO, let it soak a day or two, and rock it in high gear as previously suggested. In other words.... Do the inexpensive things first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks for everyone's advice. It was such a solid CLUNK when it stopped, I am thinking it is something that has come detached, jambed, and abrubtly halted the engine. I can remove the starter and oil pan myself, and also rock it back and forth. I think disassembling the valves, and removing the head is beyond my abilty at this point. After that I will call the rebuilder. We did not comunicate well over the phone. I might have to take a trip to Lebanon, PA. Money is short but, I just want it right and not do anymore damage.Thanks again. You all are great friends.DwightThanks again. I will keep you abreast of developments.Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 It may have dropped a valve, which would account rough running then lock up.A loose rod bolt would be similar but just would knock and then size.It would be better not to try to turn it over, as you may cause more damage.Contact the rebuilder first. JBBuick 22-6-55 Sport touring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Dwight: We are hoping the problem is trivial. And a little prayer helps too! Although I have prayed over my 1925 and at least it still tries to run. But I believe that I will have to pull the head since compression is down to around 50 lbs. I don't have a problem pulling the head but worry about what else I will find. Like you, I am about tapped out for money to get things done. And especially infuriating for you is that your engine is still considered a fresh rebuild. We will have to get together as I am at Chambersburg. Not many people around here to talk Buick with.Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 OK JB. You are right a talk with the rebuilder is in order.Larry, I would like for us to get together. I have been an admirer of your '25.I am starting back to Penn State Middletown campus in Sept. so I will be in your area.Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I certainly agree with all of the advice offered so far.Just one comment - I would be concerned with running the engine, even briefly, without a radiator. Did you have coolant in the engine, or was it dry? The radiator's job is to remove heat from the coolant, but in the process of picking up all of that heat, the coolant is working to even out the distribution of heat around the head and cylinders. If run dry, you may have developed some significant local heating - could be a concern.Good luck - keep trying the easy stuff first!Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Update: Good News!I took out the spark plugs and added some penetrating oil as Mark suggested.I prayed, as Larry suggested.But Grant had it right! I pulled the starter and the gear was stuck. The flywheel had picked up part of a mice nest. A large amount of nest was caught between the starter gear and the flywheel gears. I could not break the piece open with my hands. It was that tightly packed together. I must have forced the starter gear over the bump last week, but the next time around it stopped dead.Now, I can make full revolutions with the crank and the starter. Sounds smooth, no bumps or clunks. I even let it fire up for a couple of seconds!Thanks everyone for your ideas. I never would have guessed this one on my own.Chrome parts are due to come back from TRI-CITY PLATING at any time now. Then I can mount the radiator. Fill with coolant and get this girl purring like it should!Thanks again,Dwight Edited August 14, 2012 by Dwight Romberger (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Can you please forward this to my wife please Dwight? I need proof that I'm occasionally correct!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sure, but if she is like my wife she wouldn't believe it anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Dim Dare Mice, can be a real problem. My Vette has big side exhaust, it sat for a few weeks in my second garage, I started it with my under the hood starter switch, and happen to look back at the drivers side exhaust, and out flew a MOMMY mouse with about 6 babies hanging on to her. Off she ran into the woods with all hanging on as they flopped on the ground. Sure HAPPY for you,Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelod Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 That is great news Dwight. Good to hear it was something so simple to fix.I'm sure you will be pleased with your parts from TRI-CITY PLATING. They did an excellent job on all the parts that I sent them and I was very satisfied with the work.Take Care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I cringed reading this post. First I understand the strong desire to start the engine to see if it runs but the 'dry' part is really an issue. As a minimum hook up a used radiator from a junk yard (with coolant/water) or stick a garden hose in the inlet side of the water pump and seal it with duct tape and turn on the water tap. The rate of heat rise and potential for permanent thermal distortion around the exhaust port first and then cylinder bore are significant, we are talking somewhere around 700 C exhaust gas temperatures under no load with the first explosion in the cylinder.Remember to drain the engine and put some coolant in it too if it will be in an unheated garage waiting final installation as the remaining 'test' water can and will freeze and damage the engine.My final thought is on engine rebuilders. Any of them worth their salt will invite you to their 'run-in' stand for you to personally hear it run, check oil pressure and noises, set timing and adjust the carb etc.. At that point the builder 'signs off' that he gave you a running engine. A good builder will have a light water brake to run/break the engine in and then he will pull the pan and inspect bores and bearing caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Dwight,Since the mice have already shown they were snooping around and building, it would be a good idea to use a hose to thoroughly flush the engine out before installing the radiator. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Romberger Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thanks Brian. I didn't know about a "run in" period a rebuilder would do. And I am not going to run it until the radiator is installed.Bernie. I did take precautions to keep the mice out of the water jacket and air intakes and exhaust. They got in the clutch inspection plate opening!Thanks,Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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