Early OEM Whitworth Tools question (Mercer)

[ersatzS2]

The Parts catalog for my newly acquired 192X Mercer Raceabout lists two pages of intriguing wrenches, screwdrivers, a tool roll, punches, chisels, jack, etc. I assume all these parts were outsourced from other venders. The only brand name I can discern from the catalog is Whitworth, on two of the wrenches described as "spanner wrench" and "hubcap wrench" for wire wheels. So because the wheels are Rudge-Whitworth, maybe those are the only Whitworth tools?

So I'm trying to figure out what tools would've come with the Mercer originally. Can anyone point me to the sources of wisdom? I'm assuming I can browse the aisles at Hershey this year, but would be great if someone already had an idea of who the tool manufacturer/suppliers might have been?

Edited May 21, 2012 by ersatzS2 (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

Whitworth is not a tool brand name, it is an early thread specification ( British Standard Whitworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). Confusingly there is a modern day Whitworth Tool Co. ( History ), but it was founded only 14 years ago.

[1937hd45]

If memory is right you need a wrench on the MERCER, they don't have knockoff caps. Congratulations on finding a Raceabout, is it restored or a future project? Bob

[sambarn]

Pictures!!!!

[Craig Gillingham]

"spanner wrench" and "hubcap wrench" for wire wheels. So because the wheels are Rudge-Whitworth

I think you would be correct in thinking the wheel tools are Rudge-Whitworth branded. The Rudge-Whitworth spanners I've seen in the past are the large c-spanners. I think they also used hexagon Rudge-Whitworth caps, but haven't seen any in Australia, perhaps they are more common in the US? or does your car have both the hexagon and c-spanner (knock off) type?

I'm not sure if your car has the c-spanner style or the hexagon. The hexagon may have a corresponding 'Whitworth' (BSW) across flat size.

Most of the Whiworth sized tools I've used are usually only marked with a W after the size, or BSW, etc.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history)

[Guest T-Head]

Congratulations and thanks for sending the postcard. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

Edited May 22, 2012 by T-Head (see edit history)

[Richard Lichtfel]

Whitworth was an English size used before they switched to metric. The tools were marked with W 1/2 and so on. A strange measurement but if you had an English car you needed a set. I lent mine out a few years ago and haven't seen it since.

RHL

[CarlLaFong]

Whitworth was an English size used before they switched to metric. The tools were marked with W 1/2 and so on. A strange measurement but if you had an English car you needed a set. I lent mine out a few years ago and haven't seen it since.

RHL

When the Brits abandoned the Whitworth system, they went to the Imperial measurements, not metric

[Dave@Moon]

When the Brits abandoned the Whitworth system, they went to the Imperial measurements, not metric

If only it were that simple. For more than 30 years beginning in the 1920s MG used metric threaded bolts with Whitworth sized heads in certain applications. It's possible to find all manner of mixed sizes on British cars.

My 1975 TR6 is (as far as I know) all Imperial, however I found the retainers for the roof weatherstripping were metric from the factory. I've never come across any originality guide (and there are many) that mentions metric bolts on a TR6. However the brake line fittings on the calipers were changed to metric late in the production run, even though the rest of the car remained Imperial.

It's a good thing the end result (for a time) was one heck of a car! :cool:

[CarlLaFong]

British cars always were a mishmash. SU continued with Whitworth for a while after everyone else went to Imperial. The Lotus Elite (the later, 70s version) was metric...........mostly. I worked on British cars, primarily Healeys, and owned no metric tools at that time

[Richard Lichtfel]

I am not aware of the Imperial measurement. What was the difference between Whitworth, Imperial and metric.

RHL

[Guest Bob Call]

Here is a link to a short article that explains the British fastner systems.

British Fasteners

[Craig Gillingham]

Looking at some old photos of Mercer's with Rudge-Whitworth wheels, I think they had the two piece hub caps, so would have had two wrenches, which would be the ones shown in ersatzS2 parts book. One would be a hexagon for the center cap, and a c-spanner for the knock-off lock ring. I'd think it would be likely they were branded Rudge-Whitworth.

[ersatzS2]

I think you would be correct in thinking the wheel tools are Rudge-Whitworth branded. The Rudge-Whitworth spanners I've seen in the past are the large c-spanners. I think they also used hexagon Rudge-Whitworth caps, but haven't seen any in Australia, perhaps they are more common in the US? or does your car have both the hexagon and c-spanner (knock off) type?

I'm not sure if your car has the c-spanner style or the hexagon. The hexagon may have a corresponding 'Whitworth' (BSW) across flat size.

Most of the Whiworth sized tools I've used are usually only marked with a W after the size, or BSW, etc.

Here is a photo from the manual. The Mercers that came with wire wheels (Raceabouts and Tourings) had hexagonal hubs. However many Raceabouts that you see including mine have two-eared knock-off spinners. In any event, here is detail from the parts catalog:

[ersatzS2]

Looking at some old photos of Mercer's with Rudge-Whitworth wheels, I think they had the two piece hub caps, so would have had two wrenches, which would be the ones shown in ersatzS2 parts book. One would be a hexagon for the center cap, and a c-spanner for the knock-off lock ring. I'd think it would be likely they were branded Rudge-Whitworth.

That looks exactly correct judging by the parts manual photo above.

[ersatzS2]

If memory is right you need a wrench on the MERCER, they don't have knockoff caps. Congratulations on finding a Raceabout, is it restored or a future project? Bob

A little bit of everything: survivor, lightly restored, absolutely a future restoration. It was in the same family since 1932 and the latest owner did a six year refresh. It is in very good operating condition but not show-able per se due to many inaccurate details. So I will drive it a year or two then do a total restoration.

Pictures!!!!

My original search thread with photos and video here:

http://forums.aaca.org/f178/searching-mercer-292741.html

[Craig Gillingham]

Here is a photo from the manual. The Mercers that came with wire wheels (Raceabouts and Tourings) had hexagonal hubs. However many Raceabouts that you see including mine have two-eared knock-off spinners. In any event, here is detail from the parts catalog:

Very good, I see now, the c-spanner is a Rudge-Whitworth 80. I haven't seen a hexagon Rudge-Whitworth spanner, which is interesting.

I'd think the rest of the wrenches in your toolkit would be normal imperial (A/F). Back to your original question, who made them? I have no idea, maybe they made their own tools and had Mercer on them, or at least the part number. Or they could be something like a Herbrand or Wolden-Worchester, etc.

[Layden B]

The hubcap wrench says Rudge-Whitworth on it, mine is not marked for size and I am interested in determining what size it fits. It measures 73mm inside the octagon.

I also have a single hubcap that measures 64mm across the flats, 67mm threads. Any ideas on this one too?

Both these wrenches were probably supplied with the wheels to Mercer.

There would have been more specialized tools to fit the grease seals on these wire wheels but perhaps they were for factory or professional use and thus not supplied to owners.

I suspect that while today most refer to these as Rudge wire wheels, in the day they may have been often called Whitworth or perhaps that was a Mercer thing.

[Craig Gillingham]

Layden, 73mm is an odd size. I looked up a chart, the only thing close to 73mm is 2-13/16" A/F (71.4mm). There isn't a corresponding metric or Whitworth sized hexagon, close to 73mm.

64mm matches close to 2-1/2" A/F (63.5mm), and there also isn't a corresponding metric or Whitworth sized hexagon.

[1937hd45]

Congratulations, that is a fine looking car with a great history, hope you enter it in the Hershey meet this year. Bob

[Craig Gillingham]

The hubcap wrench says Rudge-Whitworth on it, mine is not marked for size and I am interested in determining what size it fits.

I've just realised you wanted to know what Rudge wheel size it fits, i.e. 72, 80 etc, rather than the across flat size of the hexagon.

[ersatzS2]

Mystery solved, the answer to the OP question is: Billings & Spencer. Everything matches, from the open-end wrenches to the screwdrivers to the adjustable wrench.

The Billings & Spencer Company

[Rusty_OToole]

Couple of points to remember about British nuts and bolts. There were 2 kinds in common use on cars, Whitworth (coarse thread) and BSF (British Standard Fine, fine thread). Both used the same wrenches with a slightly unusual size system. The wrenches were named for the diameter of the bolt's shank, not the head. So a 1/2" wrench fits a 1/2" bolt, making the wrench closer to what we would call a 3/4".

The other thing is, British bolt heads were made to a certain size, and the wrench a hair larger. American bolts were the opposite, the wrench was a certain size and the bolt head or nut a hair smaller. So wrenches never fit.

Now it gets worse. In 1969 they went to what they called Unified Threads, meaning US nuts bolts and wrenches. Then some time later I hear they went metric.

Except for Ford which used American sizes from the first, including sizes of their own like 19/32".

And, there was another standard called Cycle Engineers Institute that was common on English bicycles and motorcycles in the early days.

If you want to collect old English cars motorcycles and bicycles, and work on them, you might as well go nuts right away.