1958 Power Brake booster HELP!

[bubba]

Hey, Just bought my first 50's car and it came with a brake problem. It's a Century 66R hardtop coupe. THe pedal is like a brick to push down and it sticks half way when it comes back up for a few seconds then the wheels release and it pops up all the way. I have vacuum from the manifold going to the unit. I suspect the booster is bad and would like to know where to get one that is rebuilt with care. Also I would like to replace the wheel cylinders. Who sells quality ones? Thanks in advance.

Al

[1957buickjim]

Al, nice car and good choice! I don't know if you have checked all the components in the brake system. Does the pedal work ok when the engine is off or is it the same way? The power brake system should work like a manual brake without vacuum, just a bit more pedal travel. That would be my first check. Then, I would check the vacuum connections starting with the engine T fitting. Tighten them all. Remove and test the check valve to make sure that it works. Install new rubber vacuum lines from the check valve to the booster tank (under the fender well in the left front fender), and check the system. If the problem still persists, then I would look at the booster as the culprit. From what I have seen in the shop manual, it does not look like it is too big of a task to rebuild the power brake booster. There are many rebuild kits available on eBay, as well as other options. For your wheel cylinders, NAPA sells them, as well as AutoZone. The only issue is that you may have to buy new hoses that fit. The original ones are 1/8" and the replacements are 3/16". Good luck.

Edited May 12, 2012 by 1957buickjim (see edit history)

[bubba]

Thanks for the reply. The pedal is the same basically with the engine on or off. I did turn it on with my foot on the pedal and it went down a few hairs. There is vacuum everywhere so I think it's the booster. I have read other posts on the subject since I posted this one and I took the car out for a short drive. THe car makes a right turn when you put foot on the brake. The fluid level was low in the master. Almost down to half way. Now if it has air in the lines I guess it is possible that the pedal will not return. I added fluid and no change. I didn't think it would help without being bled.

When this is working correctly does it actually feel like modern power brakes or is the pedal hard all the time. Do you feel the pedal being pulled down ? That doesn't feel that way at all.

I'm used to mechanical brakes and might install them on this car.

Just kidding.

Al

[61polara]

I've had this problem on a '57 Buick, which I think has the same type boster. There is a small cover on the top of the boster. Remove it and put a few drops of transmission fluid in there. Start working the pedal. I think it will free up for you. This is covered in the shop manual. From the break pull, it sounds like its time for a complete overhaul.

[1957buickjim]

Al,

I removed manual brakes from my 57 and installed the power brake system, so to me, it definetly feels like modern power brakes in my car. A whole lot less pedal effort and a lot quicker stopping, comparatively.

I would try Dave's suggestion. there are 2 screws holding the vacuum T fitting to the top of the booster. I think there might even be a filter under the fitting when you remove it. Check that as well.

As for the pulling, the low fluid level would exacerbate the pulling, for sure. I would definitely bleed the brakes, pull the front wheels and drums and inspect everything. Make sure that your drums and pads are ok and within spec. Check for leaks as well at the wheel cylinders. Clean the bejeebers out of everything with Brake cleaning spray. That might help as well with the hard right response of the car when braking.

[Guest SupRiv56R]

I recently replaced the booster/MC on my '57 Super. The problem I had was intermittant compete loss of braking. I surmised the problem was a combination of the booster and the master cylinder. When it was working the pedal felt completely normal: firm pedal, good boost, no fluid loss and when tested by depleting the vacuum reserve and starting the engine, the pedal fell away/moved down as it should.

For a replacement brake booster/mc, I had good luck with GM Obsolete. He sends the units he has in stock out for rebuild when you order it, so this adds a little to the turnaround time. I was having the R&R done by my mechanic so I could not send my core ahead of time. He agreed to place the core charge on my credit card and promptly send me a refund (check) when he received my core. I was very happy with his service. He has a web site listing available parts.

[bubba]

I tried removing the filter cover and dripped in some automatic tranny fluid. The result after some pumping is that the pedal doesn't have that point that sticks half way up anymore but it still sticks at the bottom of the travel for a few seconds. With the car turned off the brakes feel a lot better. Hmmm. Think I'm going to have the whole thing replaced as I don't want to have a problem. Thanks for your responses. Will keep you informed.

Al

[Pete Phillips]

Did you buy that white '58 in Dalton, Georgia? If so, it's a low mileage car and probably needs the entire brake system rebuilt because of so much sitting. Napa probably carries the wheel cylinder rebuild kits. CARS, Inc. has the master cylinder rebuild kit, and there's a place on the West Coast that rebuilds the power boosters if you send it to them. "Booster" Dewey is his name and he did a nice job on mine for about $120.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[61polara]

Try a few more drops of ATF and pump some more. Your booster should be fine once you work it out. Overhaul the rest of the system.

[bhclark]

Beautiful car! Looks a little familiar.

Mine's a super.

Good luck with the brakes.

I agree with the above, bleed the brakes first so you don't introduce junk into the new components, replace the wheel cylinders and hoses, check the shoes and drums for wear, clean everything, reassemble and then see if you still need to tackle the booster.

I've used wheel cylinders from AutoZone with success, although they are china made, IIRC. The one problem I've found is that the bleeding screws were different sizes front to back

You might also check out Rock Auto for all the hoses, shoes and wheel cylinders, as well as a good selection of other common repair parts.

[bubba]

Yes Pete it is the car from Dalton, Georgia. It marks the first time that I ever bought a car from a magazine ad. I've collected all the parts and spent this morning trying to get the big nut off where the power brake booster comes through the firewall. Found a previous post on the subject here and will try some things. Thanks for all suggestions so far.

The car has PS, PB, PW, 4way PS, Factory rear speaker with fader,

[Smartin]

That is CLEAN!

[trp3141592]

Hi,

This may not be a vacuum issue at all, as a vacuum issue would not explain the pulling to one side. The pedal stopping halfway back and (especially) the pull to one side make me suspect that the rubber brake hoses may have deteriorated inside and are clogged. These hoses have a limited life and need to be replaced occasionally.

Both my 37 Roadmaster and my 40 LaSalle had similar symptoms, and in both cases the culprit was deteriorated-on-the-inside rubber hoses. They looked good on the outside but were collapsed on the inside.

Let us know what you find.

--Tom

[bubba]

Just got back from a good friends house with my rebuilt brake booster/ master cylinder. I got it out of the car yesterday using the spin the engine side and then remove the inside 1 3/4" nut method. Worked very well.

The booster was nicely painted black showing that it must have been rebuilt but upon opening it up brake fluid was in the vacuum section because instead of using "O" rings the "rebuilder" used silicon. The six plates that go on top of the spring were under it instead. This explained why my pedal stuck half way up. All this means that this problem didn't just start happening.

Hope to get it back in tomorrow and bleed the system then I'll see where I'm at. I was surprised how easy this was to rebuild when you have the correct parts and somebody who knows what they're doing.

I want to see how it works before I replace all the brake shoes, hoses, etc...

Thanks all for your help. Will keep you up to date.

Al

[bubba]

Front now has new shoes, lines bled with new wheel cylinders. The brake lines and hoses look like somebody just did them. Both front wheels have same drag when the brakes are applied. The booster/master was rebuilt and the hard pedal is gone and feels like power brakes but it is slow to return all the way to the top. Installed external return spring which was missing and didn't solve problem. Car used to make a right turn when brakes applied and that is much better but still pulls if you let go of the wheel. Has new lower ball joints and the front end is tight. Vacuum leaks gone. The brake pedal has the travel that the shop manual calls for. Windshield wipers don't work. They come on and stop. Don't think this is causing other problem as the vacuum booster in the pan is working fine. Wiper motor probably needs to be rebuilt.

The car has close to 180 on all cylinders for compression. My friend/mechanic tuned it up and it's a rocket ship now just like a Century should be. Just need to solve the pulling to the right and the pedal return. Any thoughts appreciated.

Al

newsflash...suspect flex hose going to back brakes. It's in a crazy place. More tomorrow.

Edited June 15, 2012 by bubba (see edit history)

[bubba]

Tom, hose to rear brakes was collapsed. Now when you put your foot down the car really stops. The pull to the right is still there. Brake pedal comes up. Found some info on net about using riveted linings versus glued saying that glued can cause the pull. Have set of bendix riveted coming. Hope this does it because my friend is getting requests for me to sell it and I want to drive it!!

Here are a few more pics. One shows this combo light / mirror that everybody seems to be crazy about. I think it's interesting but I can't see much with it. The mirror on the passenger side is a joke. I would need xray vision to see through the A pillar to be able to use it. Noticed some cars have this on the front fender. Had sidemount mirrors on my 32 Buick. They don't do much but look nice.

The picture inside the glove box shows the special warning label telling the guy who is about to paint your car that was hit cause you couldn't see the road hog coming due to the mirrors that you have the special optioned paint. (phew)

This is a weird place for this but it gives the car character.

The front "V" lets more air through that can't make it by the 160 squares below.

Trunk is very clean

Edited June 15, 2012 by bubba (see edit history)

[bubba]

Well, new riveted shoes go on and car still pulls to the right. Front drums are aluminum and both were cleaned during initial new shoes installation. The left front had some kind of black dust on it which gave it a different feel from the right after cleaning it again. Had the left drum cut just a fraction to take off what ever this was and car stops straight!!!!! Drums mic up as new. Grease seals are perfect. Some kind of aluminum oxidation??? Hope it doesn't come back.

Thanks to all that helped.

Now on to the wipers........

Al

Edited June 17, 2012 by bubba (see edit history)

[d2_willys]

Drums have steel liners. Sounds weird! But at least you got the pull gone!

[trp3141592]

Hi,

Glad to hear you got the rubber hose issue resolved!

--Tom

[lancemb]

I had an issue with my pedal not returning on my 57 with same type of unit. Upon rebuilding it I noticied that the previous "rebuilder" used grease instead of ATF as called for in the vacuum chamber; if your pedal still returns slowly that could be an issue.