WillBilly53 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Is there a trick to separating the torque tube from the torque ball? I'm trying to redo the seal. I've done like the manual says in order to pull the rear axle assembly: disconnected the rear springs, shock links at the absorber arms, parking brake cable, etc. I've remove the bolts at the torque tube, but it still won't roll out. Any ideas?edit: and yes, the back end of the car itself is securely on jacks. Edited April 10, 2012 by WillBilly53 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete O Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If you have it all disconnected, then you'll just need to pursuade it out. maybe a come-along pulling on the rear end? When I did mine, I didn't have a come-aong, so I just made sure the car was supported well and I got under it and kicked at the rear end to roll it out. Not too smart, but we've all gotta go sometime!When you go to put it together, I was able to just get the splines started only, and I had to use long bolts on the torque ball cap to draw it in a little at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 When you go to put it together, I was able to just get the splines started only, and I had to use long bolts on the torque ball cap to draw it in a little at a time. I am glad to see I am not the only one who had these issues. I used a ratchet strap to do mine. It was a bear to do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 So it looks like the splines keep the torque tube attached and stubborn. Also stubborn for installation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If it's anything like my '41 Century, there are SIX bolts, not five, holding the tube to the ball flange. There are five in a symmetrical star pattern that look like they should be all of them, but there was a sixth at 12 o'clock high that I missed because of all the gunk and poor visibility (and because common sense says there shouldn't be a bolt there). I pounded, pulled, and even tried prying it apart thinking it was merely stuck. Then I found that sixth bolt and voila! It separated effortlessly.Double check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Will, Are the tires on the ground or do you have the axle housing jacked up with a floor jack? Tires should be off the ground. I had some one pull back on the floor jack while I seperated it from the flange, then it slide back with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 WillYou did not mention the panhard bar...that needs to be removed also. Sometimes you have to loosen the bolts that hold th outer torque ball retainer. With the car on sturdy jack stands, support the rear with a floor jack so that it is not just hanging and binding in the X part of the frame. If you pull, pull from the frame at the rear of the car, not the bumper of a truck parked behind (you can pull it off the jack stands). I use an old bumper jack to push: wrap a short section of chain around the front of the torque tube where the strut rods attach and attach the bumper hook to that; the other(lower end) is placed in the pocket of the X frame (without the base plate). The whole rear will not roll out with the tires on...roll on the brake drums or just bare rims. You may have to have something to roll on.Think and plan ahead for an hour for every minute you actually do something and you will get it. Good luck -- Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 thanks for the tips everyone. the panbar was the first thing I released, so we're good there. the wheels are off the ground, with the floor jack underneath the differential housing. It sounds like I might need to jack it up a little further though. gonna chew on some gum and reread these comments before I go back out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Sounds like Old-tank has the key. Wheels off, axle and torque tube as level with the transmission as possible to relieve stress/binding on the splines. Pull like a mojo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Also make sure you don't have rear end to low. Try jacking it up a little to get it even. If it is to low it might bind. Might just need to find the sweet spot on the hight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Oh yeah, what he said!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Bingo! Thanks fellas. It was indeed too low and binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 One last question which way does the seal go? The one I pulled off the u joint was in great condition and had the tapered end facing the rear end. This seems backwards to me and just wanted to check before I put it all back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 One last question which way does the seal go? The one I pulled off the u joint was in great condition and had the tapered end facing the rear end. This seems backwards to me and just wanted to check before I put it all back together.WillThe lip of the seal always goes toward what you are sealing, in this case to the front. Check the sleeve that the seal rides on to be sure there are no big grooves or your new seal will soon fail.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 WillThe lip of the seal always goes toward what you are sealing, in this case to the front. Check the sleeve that the seal rides on to be sure there are no big grooves or your new seal will soon fail.WillieWillie, What can be done if there is a groove in the sleeve? Is there a replacement sleeve available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Willie, What can be done if there is a groove in the sleeve? Is there a replacement sleeve available? RickThose that I have changed were with NOS pieces--->rare and hard to find; others may have a better solution.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Hanning Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Rick, You can restore the seal position easily. Measure the diameter of the sleeve that the seal lip runs on then go to your local bearing or oil seal shop and buy a piece of kit called a "Speedi Sleeve" to suit that size, the rest is simple as it comes with fitting instructions.Mike HanningChristchurch New Zealand. BCA #40630 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Mike, Thank you for the tip. I will look in to that for sure.Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, I'm a bit confused with the parts book and what I'm seeing underneath the car. I'm posting some photos. The close up of the seal is what I pulled off the u joint. When I examine the end of the shaft (the other photo) I see what I think is the sleeve but also what looks to be an outer sleeve? Or is that the bushing? Basically where the heck do I install the new seal? Is it supposed to be pressed on to the end of the propeller shaft or do I put on the u joint? Like I said when everything pulled apart, the seal that was there was on the u joint and it basically just slid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Looks like the original 1953 seal is still on the shaft. The seal that you are holding in your hand looks like a replacement seal, but I cant figure out where it could have been installed at. There should not be a seal that I am aware of other than the shaft seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) The seal IS in its place. If you look at your second picture, it is the round piece touching the torque tube. The bushing is the piece next to the driveshaft. You should not have had an additional seal in there. You should pry out the one in there now, then install the new one with the lip facing the trans. (the opposite of how it is now)Install it with pookie between outer edge and torque tube. Edited April 13, 2012 by buick5563 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 thanks ya'll. that all makes sense. it was definitely confusing me with what I was seeing. maybe the previous owner's attempt at getting this thing on the road? Who knows, but ya'll clarified the situation, thank you. (and thanks Rick for the emails with the diagramatic photos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 How in the heck do you drive the new seal squarely? I've been fooling with this for over an hour. Been lightly tapping criss cross but the opposite im tapping on inevitably pops back out. The top area is pretty hard to even get to because of the lack of clearance from the body. I've used various blocks of wood, curved tools and even the old seal on top -all with the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 need a deep socket that will push all sides at the same time. If you don't have a deep enough socket to go over the spline and make contact with the seal a piece of pipe or PVC pipe will work. Tap lightly to install the seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillBilly53 Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Awesome! I had the right idea, but just the wrong tool. I rolled it back some more for better clearance and used a 1 1/2 socket. Worked like a charm! Thanks warhawk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Glad I could help. Here's to no more leaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I am in the same boat...I can't separate the torque tube from the torque ball... I have the whole rear of the car disassembled, I was replacing an old leaky gas tank and once I was there, I got new shocks, springs, re-did the brakes, primed and POR15ed anything I could, which was a lot... I am taking a brake as I haven't eaten anything since 9 am and even my shadow pisses me of right now... I used straps, put the guide pins in, but can not get it to move... I used a rubber mallet with no success. Is it ok if I use a propane torch? Don't know what else to do. Have read 20 or so pages here but still... Inclinometer shows level, car is level, what am I missing? Someone has been there before me, the torque ball is a two piece metal bowl with a loose rubber ring... it was bulging towards the bottom. I think I will call it a day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Torched it... 2 minutes and it popped out... $@#^%$# shiner bock time... Edited May 8, 2012 by VickyBlue (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 $@#^%$# shiner bock time...Heck yeah, buddy.BTW, that silver color on the torque ball retainer means it is a reproduction. Send that to Bob's and have him revulcanize with the proper rubber. The reproductions are incompatible with trans fluid. (I know, crazy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Thank you sir... I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Easy on the "Sir". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Shiner....I love Shiner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Does the inner retainer need to come off too? It seems whoever did this used some sort of glue and it is is not coming off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickrk Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Looks like the rubber seal is falling off of the retainer. I am betting it is a CARS replacement, very poor parts reviews from people on this site. Order a new kit from Bobs or Fatsco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 The inner retainer has a gasket between it and the torque tube. That is why it is stuck. Yes, you need to pull that off and install a new gasket. That is part of the sealing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Does the inner retainer need to come off too? It seems whoever did this used some sort of glue and it is is not coming off...It is best to get it off, that way you know what you got. I use an old butcher knife and tap between the retainer and the tranny flange; heat will help, but I hate using flames under a car. However if it is that tight and not leaking at that location you could probably leave it there. That outer torque ball retainer is from CARS (the silver plate is the clue). Mine did the same thing --- right before traveling to a National meet --- in July --- in Texas --- not enough Shiner Bock. Do not buy that part from CARS; it is junk! And remember that before the forum moderators slap me down again. (good boys don't bad-mouth vendors)Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It is off. Almost half a quart of fluid drained... which now makes ask this: I can see the roller bearing, then there is a rubber seal about half inch away from the bearing. Is the fluid supposed to lubricate just the bearing and stop at the rubber seal, or the universal u-joint too and stop at the inner retainer/outer torque ball? In other words, at which point does the fluid supposed to stop and where does the dry axle begin? At that inner seal past the bearing or at the vulcanized torque ball seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It is off. Almost half a quart of fluid drained... which now makes ask this: I can see the roller bearing, then there is a rubber seal about half inch away from the bearing. Is the fluid supposed to lubricate just the bearing and stop at the rubber seal, or the universal u-joint too and stop at the inner retainer/outer torque ball? In other words, at which point does the fluid supposed to stop and where does the dry axle begin? At that inner seal past the bearing or at the vulcanized torque ball seal?It is normal for fluid to be in that location. The universal in 55 is lubricated by drilled passages in special bolt that attaches the universal. The 55 does not have a bearing or seal at that location. The sealing is at the outer torque ball retainer, gaskets at the inner and outer retainer, torque ball to torque tube gasket, and the seal in the front of the torque tube.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickyBlue Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Lots of silicone... I am going to clean it, inspect the shaft and put it together. Should I use liquid gasket, even though from what I read a gasket is not required? I ordered a kit from Bob's and until it gets here all I am doing today is scrapping 56 year old crap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 This is a great thread for future reference!That is the back of the torque tube for people following along later. I made a gasket and used permatex when I did mine. Also sealed the threads.I really didn't want it to leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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