Dandy Dave Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Early cars, trucks, and broken axles was common place in the old days. With the conditions of the roads in the early years, it makes one wonder that any of the early vehicle's we love survived at all.This round is for a 1915 Buick Truck that I'm sure saw it's share of hard duty back in the day. Stand by, Photos to come... Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Larry. I was ready to load some photos when I got side-tracked this morning with a crappy job. Nothing like having to unplug a septic pipe first thing Monday morning. Now back to making Axles.... Here is the old ones that have been though a number of wars and survived many years only to fail upon retirement. The right axle failed where it entered the spider gear cluster. Both will be replaced as the keyways are beat. Also cracks, fatique, and basically mushed iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Oh well, it is better than replacing a hip, knee (or substitute whatever body part you might need), and probably a bit less expensive. But also, I have not seen to many Speedos in the OR. But perhaps it is too early in the year for a Speedo in the garage.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) John, It's almost warm enough in the Green House. And we are on our way.... Center drilling and facing the ends. Tough time getting the taper right. Dial indicating the old axles did not workout as they wobbled in the hubs pretty bad, and neither of the hubs are the same. I'm not sure they were ever right from the factory, or if they just were run loose and wore over time. I will add, if the tapers were cut and fit correctly from the factory they would not have come loose easily. This seems to be a problem with early Buicks in paticular. I had to keep moving the taper two to three thousandths over a 3 inch area and then testing the axle for fit. After getting that right then it was off to turn the end and cut the thread. Here's a link to making axles for my own car a number of years back if anyone is interested. the process is in greater detail. http://forums.aaca.org/f115/cant-buy-make-1915-buick-axle-228330.htmlNow,...Back to the Dungeon. Dandy Dave! Edited February 20, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Larry, Check you PM's. The threads on the hub end of your right axle is shot. I would assume that the threads in that nut are also shot? If so, It will be best to cut the threads to a modern and available size. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 The tapers on both axles are done. Here are some photos of laping the axle in the right wheel hub. The tapered axle end photo shows after the axle was blued and laped in. At least 90 percent or better of the blueing has been laped away insuring a very good fit. The gray dull area is where it has been laped. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) The tapers on the original axles did not fit the hubs all that tight. Subsequently, Dial indicating the old axles did not give a proper fit. I had to get close, and then move the taper attachment 2 to 3 thousands of an inch over a 3 inch distance to get a proper fit. I always start with a longer piece than needed as getting the tapers right can eat up several inches of shaft at times. This photo shows the outside of the hub with the original axle pushed in it. As you can see it is pretty beat up. This end was fairly snug, but turn the hub over and there was 10 plus thousands of an inch of wobble on the inside of the hup. In a high parts production situation in 1915, I can see where these may not have been made with perfection everytime. Also, neither hub had the same taper as I had to do minor adjustments to each for a proper fit with both the left and right axles. Dandy Dave! Edited February 29, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 The critical part of this now is getting the correct lenth of the axle to the spider gear. In a 1915 Buick rearend, the spider gears retain the drive axles from comming out of the rear axle housing. If the axle is made too short, the brake band and parts could come in contact with the spokes of the wheel and cut them away, or the brake drum could rub on the backing plates and parts. If too long, the drum will be away from the brake band, and roller bearing in the hub will be out to far and not fit correctly internally. Now, most would assume that measuring the old axles at total lenth would be OK. Cut her off, put her in, and let her spin Sparky.... Nope, wrong. The reason being that having a correct fitting taper changes everything.The critical measurement is the lenth of where the axle is snug in the hub to where the gear fits. The old axle measures 29.200 inches. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Larry, Measure the depth of your hubcaps for me. Full inside depth. I remember the end of the axle was close to the center of the hubcap on my 15 Buick. I don't want you putting any dents in the Buick Hub Cap when you put them on. There more to making these than you thought, huh??? Gotta be thinking all the time. I'm ahead of the photos posted on the site. The short axle is threaded and ready for the mill. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 VERY impressive, Dave! Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) VERY impressive, Dave! Wow!...:cool:.... This is what it often takes to keep these early vehicles moving. Either you need bags full of money, or a lot of do it yourself knowledge. I'm usually in the, "short on money" catagory. 1915 Buick C-4 truck axle progress to date. Dandy Dave! Edited March 1, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serb Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Atta Boy Dandy!!!! You make the Buick Rascals proud.Stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The critical part of this now is getting the correct lenth of the axle to the spider gear. ...The critical measurement is the lenth of where the axle is snug in the hub to where the gear fits. The old axle measures 29.200 inches. Dandy Dave!Hey Dave, another detailed operation in the hills of the Taconic Valley in NY. Beautiful job so far. I do have a question about measuring? I see the yardstick has both the 10 digit inch and the 32'ds digit inch. An inch is still an inch regardless of which scale used, correct? And is there a rule of which scale to use for certain operations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hey Dave, another detailed operation in the hills of the Taconic Valley in NY. Beautiful job so far. I do have a question about measuring? I see the yardstick has both the 10 digit inch and the 32'ds digit inch. An inch is still an inch regardless of which scale used, correct? And is there a rule of which scale to use for certain operations?Your mileage may vary, but typically there are fewer errors using decimal measurements.In an earlier life I worked in manufacturing where everything was done in decimal inches. The old timers there talked about how everything was once done in 16ths, 32nd and 64ths of an inch. Transition was tough they said, but the decrease in rework, etc. was worth it.Another example: I've got a contractor friend that does office remodels who has found that getting his crew to use metric measuring decreases the bad cut rate and time required to to the job enough to be worth putting up with the grumbling about using foreign measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofalltrades70 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 dandy work Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hey Dave, another detailed operation in the hills of the Taconic Valley in NY. Beautiful job so far. I do have a question about measuring? I see the yardstick has both the 10 digit inch and the 32'ds digit inch. An inch is still an inch regardless of which scale used, correct? And is there a rule of which scale to use for certain operations?JD, Your eyes do not deceive you. On this paticular ruler, an inch is still an inch. This is a machinest's ruler and the side that I am using is divided into tenths like a micrometer. Each line represents 100 thousands of an inch. it does sometimes make measuring easier for some jobs.Common standard rulers will give you common distances that can quickly be converted to thousandths of an inch in your head after doing this for a time. It gets difficult to measure 200 thousands on a standard scale. For instance, 1/8th = 0.125, 1/4th = 0.250, 3/16ths = 0.1875. In machinest's lingo that is one hunderd eighty seven thousandths and five tenths. As you can see, it is difficult to mark off 200 thousandths or two tenths of an inch with a standard scale.There are also rulers called "Shrink Scales" that are used in the foundry when making patterns to compensate for the shrinkage of the metal being poured. Be careful when buying a nice looking ruler at a yard sale. It may not do you any good in your home shop if it is a Shrink Scale. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hey Larry, Your square, threaded, and screwed.....errr..ahhh... I mean the business end of your axles. Here's some shots of the spider gear end of things. Next step is to get the key slots cut. Then cut, and face off the threaded ends to length. The short and long of it is, we're almost there! :cool: Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest frazer51 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hi Dave, I need to ask, what kind of material was used to make these axles? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hi Dave, I need to ask, what kind of material was used to make these axles? John4140... http://www.suppliersonline.com/Research/Property/metals/25.aspDandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest frazer51 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Dave, 4140 is an excellent choice. Will it need to be heat treated for this application? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Dave, 4140 is an excellent choice. Will it need to be heat treated for this application? JohnMy personal opinion is no. This steel is much stronger as is than anything they made in 1915. If you heat treat it, you will need to re-machine all the sufaces as the steel will warp and swell in spots. The only way to machine it after hardening will be Grinding. Also, heat treating can make the axle brittle and that could make it snap off easier at its weakest point. These axles are very beefy as it is at 1. 500 inches thick. The axles only drive the vehicle and do not support the weight of it as it is basically a full floating type rearend. Some may argue with me for the sake of argument over whether to heat treat or not. My axles have been in my 1915 Buick Roadster and I have driven it a lot of miles without a problem over the last 5 years. I would say that speaks for it's self. This is hilly country here and can put any early car to a real test. I do drive it to local shows which can be up to 50 miles away. I only trailor the car when long distance interstate driving is necessary. Also, I doubt Larry is going to overload his very cool vintage Buick truck with 5 tons of seed corn, or gravel. John. Does your 1918 Buick have a broken Axle? Dandy Dave! Edited March 3, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) :):):):D:D:D:DThe sales brouchre for the truck says that it is capable of carrying 3/4 ton and more on "smooth roads" I do not plan on doing anyting other than driving with maybe a few friends on board. Edited March 3, 2012 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Larry, a few friends like add up to 3/4 ton in a hurry. :rolleyes:Yes, you have to be careful with my future truck :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Derek,You will need to hash that out with my son. He has already laid claim to the 2 trucks with his two sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) We've arrived. The axle machining is complete other then locking the differential gear nuts to the end of the axles after they are tightened for the last time before assembly. The keyways have been cut, and the keys made as they are not by any means standard. To compensate for some wear in the slot in the hubs themselves, I made the protruding part of the keys from the axle oversize and hand fit them to assure snugness. This is achived by blueing the surface, checking fit, and carefully filing the high spots repeatedly. It takes some slight pressure from the nut for the last half an inch or so to pull the axle home insuring a good snug fit. It takes the hub puller to remove the axle. I did make an improvement to the original design and did not run the keyway slot all the way out though the threaded end of the axles. By doing this, the keys have to stay in place and cannot shift in, and be pushed upward by the original slot design upon installation. Also, the key cannot slide out upon removal. The next step will be getting some projects out of the way so I have room to reassemble Larry's Buick Truck Rearend. Dandy Dave! Edited March 11, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Derek,You will need to hash that out with my son. He has already laid claim to the 2 trucks with his two sisters.We never know what life will bring. I hope the truck becomes a family heirloom and is treasured by your future generations Larry. If not, it is always nice to know there are others like Thriller who are willing to take the responsibility of its value to our automotive past, and is willing carry to torch to the next generation. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I'm now working on an axle for The Old Rhinebeck Aero Drome's 1917 Columbia Ambulance. The chassies is a rare GMC chassies.Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome | America's Original Living Museum of Antique Airplanes! - Columbia Ambulance - 1917This vehicle broke an axle during one of the shows last year. The axle has 6 splines and I set it up with a dividing head to mill the splines. The rest of the axle is basically like the Buick axle so no need to explain the tapers hub end. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Some years back I saw some reminiscences of an ex Buick employee. When he started there in 1909 his job was to bolt the flywheel onto the crankshaft, I believe it fitted on a taper, then machine the flywheel. Once the flywheel was "trued up" the flywheel and crankshaft were a matched set and could not be separated.Wonder if your hubs were made this way, the axle shaft and hub bolted together then the hub trued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 That is very possible. I have to lap the new axle to the hub to get a good fit. I can see it would be a good practice to machine the flywheel while mounted on the crank so that everything would be in balance and true to the crank center. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4 bufords Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 dandy dave,how long did it take to make that axle for larrys truck? what kind of machines do you have? 4 bufords from ct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) dandy dave,how long did it take to make that axle for larrys truck? what kind of machines do you have? 4 bufords from ct4 Bufords, Take a walk thru this older post about making axles for my 1915 Buick Roadster to see the machines... http://forums.aaca.org/f115/cant-buy-make-1915-buick-axle-228330.htmlI suppose I should write down my hours one of these days when I make an axle. I would guess an easy 15 to 20 hours per axle from the time I get the raw stock until the time it is completed. The Columbia Ambulance took a little longer than the Buick axles as the differential end had 6 spines while the Buick is square. Getting the math right will sometimes drive you a little batty??? Edge finder 0.500, Axle width 1.625, cutter 0.314 Just for fun, see if you can fine how many thousandths of an inch the center of the axle with this info. And then see if you can find how the get the width of the splines correct knowing that they need to be 0.375 wide. Dandy Dave! Edited May 26, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4 bufords Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 thanks dandy,those pictures were really cool.enjoyed them lots. will see you in troy in august,4 bufords from ct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) After cutting off the end of the axle, tapering, facing to length, and deburing, the gear fits perfectly. I must have done something right. sometimes I even amaze myself! The axle was pick up by two of the volunteers that are working on putting it back together with some tips and from me. One fellow is Sean Crimmins, who I have been helping with advice to from time to time when he is stuck and troubled on these old automobiles and trucks. He had a nice young lady with him, Anya, also a volunteer who has help him pull the rearend out. She is not afraid to get her hands dirty! It is good to see some young folks taking an interest. :cool: Dandy Dave! Edited May 27, 2012 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robberbach Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Larry, a few friends like add up to 3/4 ton in a hurry. :rolleyes:Yes, you have to be careful with my future truck :cool:I saw it first!!!!!!!!! I looked at this truck, before Larry did, I let the voice of my wife over rule the other voices in my head. Glad to see that it went to a good home, and will be in the family for a long time. One of these days I'll get back over to the other side of the state so Larry can give me a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 As soon as I get the axle back and the clutch relined I hope to start joy riding it again.. Especially with the bride. (of almost 40 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hey Larry, I found it! Larry is on his way home with his 1915 Buick rearend. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 :DI am a VERY HAPPY GUY. Here are some pictures that I took when I was at Dandy Dave's:DHope to get the axle put in early this week.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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