junkyardjeff Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I was at a truck show today and seen this neat 41 International with 20 original miles,story was it was ordered with 4 others shortly before the war broke out and was used for parts during the war to keep the other 4 running.After the war was over new trucks were bought and this one sat for over 50 years until someone bought it and restored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Whittington Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Have seen that truck before. Believe it is a D-300. It is a time capsule. I am thinking, sometime ago, the the ATHS had a story about that truck in the Wheels of Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron65 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Wow! I really like that bodystyle actually...20 miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old48Truck Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 There's a true trailer queen, and rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 I could not keep the miles low if I owned it since I drive all my vehicles,I would put it to work (gently) hauling my other old vehicles with a 5th wheel trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'd use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Whittington Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I could not keep the miles low if I owned it since I drive all my vehicles,I would put it to work (gently) hauling my other old vehicles with a 5th wheel trailer.Be a little short on horsepower to keep up with traffic. Probably 100 hp or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 2 speed rear axle might help out with the lack of power.Be a little short on horsepower to keep up with traffic. Probably 100 hp or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) That looks like a nasty crack in that rim coming off the valve stem hole.Otherwise, very cool find. Edited August 7, 2011 by Barry Wolk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 That does not look good,there is one of these running around locally on a longer chassis that I would like to see if it could be bought reasonably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 That looks like a nasty crack in that rim coming off the valve stem hole.Otherwise, very cool find.Barry...I think my wife called it. It's a split rim. Notice the rear wheel on the other side in the other photo. It has the EXACT same "crack" at the valve stem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 ^X2 on the split rim. I noticed it too but was reluctant to post as I wasn't completely sure if that really was a split rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 That is how truck wheels were made in that era. They are fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim43 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) In the early 60s when I worked in tire shops in California we called those wheels "Oregon wheels" I don't know why, but old time tire people called them that. Notice the lugs and "Jacksons" or " Jacsons" around the inside of the rim to hold it on the "spokes". No center section on this type of wheel. " Budd" type wheels have the conventional center section that the studs go through and a "split rim" an inch or so wide on one side. Removing the split rim allows the tire to be taken off. The Oregon type might be better be called a "split wheel", the rim that comes off is solid and doesn't come off until one side of that split by the valve stem is pried past the other side, making the wheel diameter smaller. then the solid rim can come off, and the tire. The split in the wheel has a special angle that locks the split ends together when properly mated together. They obviously work if all parts are in good order, but the the split wheel is a scary thing to work on. They came first but were made many years after the Budd type came along. Many early cars had similar wheels. Edited August 8, 2011 by jim43 addition (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) This (Dodge 1951 3 ton rim is cracked too!) Not really-it's the way they are made. The lock ring is a one piece hoop and the wheel rim is split.I think the Firestone RH5 3 piece rims on Fords and Chevy's were the real dangerous rims.Bob Edited August 8, 2011 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 The "Split rims" that everybody fears and runs away screaming from are the ones that come apart in two halves, with the "split" right in the middle of the depressed channel of the rim section.These were very common on Chevy And GMC trucks on 20" rubber in the late '40s into the early to mid-'70s.These are the ones that developed a reputation for blowing apart both in the tire-shop and ( allegedly ) out on the road. ( Believe these are the ones c49er mentioned.)The GM two- piece rims with the side ring (15" and 16"), and the three-piece rims in 17, 18, 19, and 20" were fairly reliable. They could be a bear to break-down and change the tire if things were old and rusty, but they rarely blew-apart like the true "split rim" described above.The Demountable rims with the split parallel to the axle were very common (on cars too) from the early '20s into the 1950's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 The "Split rims" that everybody fears and runs away screaming from are the ones that come apart in two halves, with the "split" right in the middle of the depressed channel of the rim section.These were very common on Chevy And GMC trucks on 20" rubber in the late '40s into the early to mid-'70s.These are the ones that developed a reputation for blowing apart both in the tire-shop and ( allegedly ) out on the road. ( Believe these are the ones c49er mentioned.)The GM two- piece rims with the side ring (15" and 16"), and the three-piece rims in 17, 18, 19, and 20" were fairly reliable. They could be a bear to break-down and change the tire if things were old and rusty, but they rarely blew-apart like the true "split rim" described above.The Demountable rims with the split parallel to the axle were very common (on cars too) from the early '20s into the 1950's..."Allegedly"? A co-worker of mine was killed by a spit rim ring after not installing the "cage" on the wheel properly at Firestone in San Diego. VERY dangerous items and NOT for the amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Whittington Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Good post Frank. Dealing with some of the "not so modern" trucks I own, occassionally we have to change a tire, fix a flat, etc. I use a piece of 5/16" chain securely fastened around the tire and rim to keep the pieces confined in case one comes apart. The biggest problem with wheels and lock rings is trying to "mix and match" different brands parts I. E. Firestone rims with Goodyear lock rings. I was in fleet maintenance or commercial vehicle sales for almost 50 years. I knew of incidences happening, but we never experienced any problems. Early on in my career, the split rims show in the pictures were common, but by the late '50's or early '60's they were being phased out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 "Allegedly"? A co-worker of mine was killed by a spit rim ring after not installing the "cage" on the wheel properly at Firestone in San Diego. VERY dangerous items and NOT for the amateur.I used the word "allegedly" in reference to those widow-makers coming-apart out on the road and injuring or killing other motorists...I don't remember the event specifically, but believe there was some incident where a person / persons were killed when one of these rims blew apart on a bus or big truck, later 1970's ?I think all of us have friends or friends of friends who were hurt or killed by multi-piece rim failures in the shop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I used the word "allegedly" in reference to those widow-makers coming-apart out on the road and injuring or killing other motorists...I don't remember the event specifically, but believe there was some incident where a person / persons were killed when one of these rims blew apart on a bus or big truck, later 1970's ?I think all of us have friends or friends of friends who were hurt or killed by multi-piece rim failures in the shop... Oh...gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billybird Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 There was also a man killed where I live when a split rim blew apart. It was at one of the local tire shops. It was close to quitting time so he skipped putting the assembly in the cage. He was going to do the job quick then go home. Sad though; he never made it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have my grandad's '54 Chevy 3/4-ton pick-up, which has the two-piece rims, where the outside ring comes-off to change the tire; it's a continuous ring, no split.They are a bugger to remove.Grandad made-up a safety-clamp for inflating these tires after putting them back together; it consisted of plates of spring steel, 4 inches wide by 3/8 inch thick by 16 inches long ( just long enough to span the diameter of the rim). There was one plate that went across the back side of the rim, and two plates that went across the front side ( ring side) in the form of a cross. There was a center-hole through all, and a 4x4 inch block cut-down to fit the hub-hole in the rim, and a long bolt that held it all together.Grandad made this up in the blacksmith shop of the B&O RR's Mount Clare terminal shortly before he retired in 1969... the steel was spring stock for locomotives.I used it whenever I aired-up a freshly-assembled wheel; thank goodness none of them ever came apart ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Beautiful truck. Question, though, doesn't the fact that it only had 20 miles on it become a non-issue when it's fully restored?To me, the only way low mileage is important is if the rest of the vehicle reflects that low mileage.Not trying to take away anything from the truck, as stated, it's a beautiful restoration.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Beautiful truck. Question, though, doesn't the fact that it only had 20 miles on it become a non-issue when it's fully restored?To me, the only way low mileage is important is if the rest of the vehicle reflects that low mileage.Not trying to take away anything from the truck, as stated, it's a beautiful restoration....I was kinda thinkin' that way, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Is any vehicle ever "fully" restored? There are parts that can be adjusted for wear, but aren't necessarily replaced in a restoration.I would say it was a plus to the story that it only had 20 miles on it as none of the parts are worn. I said earlier that I would drive it. On second thought a COE doesn't look like the safest way to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Now that I know it's intentional, it still looks broken. Is there another separation 180° away? What is the purpose and how did it work?Just the words "split rim" sends a chill down my spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 The truck was in pieces when found and was probably taken apart quickly and not much care in the process so it might have been dinged and scratched up,I wish I could of talked to the owner as I was wondering since it got robbed of parts during the war just how much of the truck was there and what had to be found. If it was missing much of he drivetrain or suspension there would be no way to find low mile replacements so only having 20 miles on it is really no big deal since it had to be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I would agree that, in order to make the claim, that the mechanical bits be original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 That's one of the curses of a low-mileage vehicle... if you use it, you "use-up" the low-mileage factor...Also, COE trucks are usually hotter than h_ll to ride in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Now that I know it's intentional, it still looks broken. Is there another separation 180° away? What is the purpose and how did it work?Just the words "split rim" sends a chill down my spine.I know it looks bad Barry, but that's the way they were made... there was just the one split across the rim section.I had several 1934-'37 International C-35 trucks with 20" cast-spoke wheels and demountable rims, and the rims were all like the one in the picture ( though much rustier ! ).On the edge of the rim facing away from the camera, there is a side-ring.To break-down the wheel, you deflate the tube, lay the tire down ring-side up, and go around the ring with a BFH, driving the ring down down into the groove. Once the ring drops-down, there is a notch in the rim section where you put a long tire-iron in, and pry, handle towards the center of the rim. The rim section collapses inward, allowing you to work the ring off. Once the ring is off, you can go about trying to coax the tire off the rim.You will sweat, you will cuss, and you will get dirty ! The rim section is actually fairly "springy" and tends to expand outwards, so there's not an issue with the rim accidentally collapsing inwards. Also, the rim is supported on its inside diameter by the six cast spokes of the wheel, so the whole assembly is fairly stable.Now, if the rim is extremely rusty and/or made-up of mismatched parts, all bets are off.The biggest challenge with the demountable wheels was getting them mounted so they ran "true" and didn't "wobble"... :mad: Edited August 9, 2011 by De Soto Frank speeling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 That is true but I doubt it has all its 20 mile parts on it.That's one of the curses of a low-mileage vehicle... if you use it, you "use-up" the low-mileage factor...Also, COE trucks are usually hotter than h_ll to ride in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have mounted and de-mounted the these type of rims shown in the picture many times over the years. My rims are very rust free. Rust is a bad thing with multi piece truck/old car rims. They need to be carefully checked for cracks and severe rust pitting and build up in the gooves. I would never match/ interchange different brands of rims/side rings ect. I also chain them up with big chain 3/8-1/2" or put them under a loader bucket and use a extended lock on air hose chuck for safety. Gotta be careful and safe working on these multi piece wheels. RH-5 wheels I would not do!Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That is true but I doubt it has all its 20 mile parts on it.I'm sure all the "organic" parts have been replaced ( wiring, rubber hoses, and other bits that either turn to goo or rock-hard fossils ), plus whatever parts it "donated" to keep other trucks going during the War...Still a neat vehicle... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I would say it was a plus to the story that it only had 20 miles on it as none of the parts are worn. Yes, a "plus," but once it's been restored, the low mileage aspect becomes almost irrelevant. Not completely, but mostly, especially if only used for short Sunday drives or shows.For you and me, as we drive our cars quite a bit, the low mileage part is good, as it's almost impossible to restore "low mileage" into the mechanical parts. However, most worn parts can be replaced to make nice drivers. Edited August 10, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 A low-mileage vehicle should, in theory, have chassis and sheet metal in better shape, as it has not experienced the wear & tear, flexing and road-shocks of thousands of service miles...As vehicles are driven, body mounts begin to fatigue and wear, and sheetmetal also begins to "work" and flex, crack, buckle, etc.Then there are the multiude of dents and creases from cargo and meetings with other objetcs / people...And then, I've seen runningboards that were literally worn-through right at the driver's door, from foot traffic in and out of the cab...Most un-restored trucks I've seen that led a working life do not have many un-blemished panels, no matter how carefully they were cared for. Cracks in fender-beads and along body pillars are common...True, there are some that have survived relatively un-scathed, but most commercial trucks were flogged to death and driven into the ground, perhaps not by their first owners, but maybe by the third, seventh, or tenth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Hearn Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I saw this truck at the National ATHS Meet in Baltimore a few years back. I took some pictures, but think they must be on a backup drive somewhere. One thing that no one pointed out is that the drivers door opens conventionally but the passenger door is hinged from the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailfin58 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I am Surprised no one has yet mentioned an ASSYMETRIC Item on this old "Binder"....Careful Observation of the excellent photos should reveal it immediately...However I must admit I KNEW where to look.... by seeing this feature on a similar Vintage IHC Cabover in Vermont..... ANY ONE ???And further more can any one provide a reason ,speculation , guess as to WHY ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I am Surprised no one has yet mentioned an ASSYMETRIC Item on this old "Binder"....Careful Observation of the excellent photos should reveal it immediately...However I must admit I KNEW where to look.... by seeing this feature on a similar Vintage IHC Cabover in Vermont..... ANY ONE ???And further more can any one provide a reason ,speculation , guess as to WHY ?Do you mean the doors opening differently as Gary Hearn mentioned above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2dameron Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 In the 1950's my brothers and I were cutting pulpwood for Dad. For a while neighbors hauled our wood but I came home one weekend from Business School and Dad had bought a 1951 6-cylinder Studebaker. To say that truck was underpowered was a vast understatement. Eventually my oldest brother decided to put a V-8 engine in the truck but it still did a poor job of moving a load. His next move was to buy a '53 International. If it ever raced a snail or a turtle, it probably would have lost the race. Both of these trucks were fitted with 8.25 X 20 tires and at least one of them had the small rims that held the tire on. One afternoon my brother wound the truck out to climb a hill and the small rim blew off the wheel. It went out through a pasture field and we never did find it. Good thing he wasn't meeting anyone when the rim took flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prs519 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 INTERNATIONAL'S ANSWER TO SEGUE'. IMAGINE PULLING THIS UP TO A CROWD WITH A TOTALLY SATISFIED AND SERIOUS EXPRESSION ON YOUR FAITH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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