more news on the 89

[Guest Recian]

I know im always going back and forth up here on the 89 but i figure i'd keep my progress on my 89 up to date if anyone else has major engine work that needs to be done. I have exciting and potentially more stressful news.

Ive gota pull the engine. I managed to get the car 40 miles to work today an every seal in the tranny went out. Torque converter, lower and upper pan. Also im having trouble getting to the freeze plugs so If i have to pull the tranny to get the t/q seal I figure i'll not bust my a** to get those freeze plugs out in the car, I'll do it out and clean them up good and replace all the plugs including the ones in the back of the engine. Im debating doing rings/bearings. I just put the heads on so i'd have to buy new head gaskets. Ive got some copper residue on my dipstick so i know i need to fix the bearings at minimum. I know however if i do all of this i'll have a new engine that'll last past 500k (for the car, its at 168k)

I also while it's out need to have the tranny overhauled since it's got a hard and premature 1-2 shift, the o/d wont engage and the car when you let off the brake in drive wont creep on it's own, you have to give it gas and it kinda hesitates so i think the torque converter is going bad or something in the trans needs to be fixed.

So bottom line im going into major heart surgery here. I'll re-wrap the engine harness and paint the engine bay to match what I intend to paint the car.

[Guest Richard D]

You have had more trouble with your Reatta than anyone else I can remember. I wish you the best and still think you will be happy for a long time when all is well.

HANG IN,

R.

ps, well there is one member who received five defective transmissions in a row from Jasper. But he did get one that is working.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Richard D (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I really do admire your dedication and willingness to overcome the huge obstacles you have faced in getting this car back into shape. I doubt that I could have done it. However, with all the things you describe that you are facing to finish this project , I think you have come to a crossroads where you need to take some time to be sure you make the right decision about how to proceed on this project. For what you will have to invest to repair the transmission and paint the car alone you will have spent enough money to buy a pretty nice Reatta with much less mileage that is ready to drive.

I know that I sound like a party pooper here but sometimes you need someone to point out what your heart blinds you to seeing.

[NCReatta]

Dude, if you're going that far, just pick up a Series 1 S/C car and swap it in! At this point, you wouldn't have to do that much more work. Probably about $500 more, but I think it'd be worth it.

I also admire your dedication.. I would've set the car on fire by now..

[handmedownreatta]

Dude, if you're going that far, just pick up a Series 1 S/C car and swap it in! At this point, you wouldn't have to do that much more work. Probably about $500 more, but I think it'd be worth it.

i agree

[Guest Recian]

A couple things. If i get a series1 SC it wont be a completely overhauled engine ready to go for another 200k+ complete with a supercharged trans (Mine is too weak to hold the supercharged engine) for $500. Second im aware of the fact that i could buy another reatta cheaper however and it may seem wierd but..

If i give up on this reatta and buy another one for the money im spending, with the fact that there were about 5000 of these cars made in 89, less with sunroofs, how am I any better than the others who've sent theirs to junkyards that werent totalled or had frame damage, sent to junkyards for minor engine problems or un-findable electrical problems. If i give up on this car you can scratch off another 89 from the already shrinking list of reattas. Yes i can take the easy way out but I wouldnt forgive myself for letting another of these cars be lost forever. I had an 81 datsun 280z that I let go to the junkyard cuz it had a dead spot in the rpm, probably a vacuum leak or simple emissions problem but I junked a rare car for that and I dont plan to do it again.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Recian (see edit history)

[Guest Recian]

Its the same as years ago I know most of you guys have seen this, all the classic muscle cars that fetch high money today they were a dime a dozen 40 years ago, what happened? people let them go to junkyards and took it for granted, now theyre almost all gone. I know the reatta isnt a high money market but it's a beutiful and rare car and always starts up conversations. I just dont want to be one of the people that causes the car to disappear in time. This being one of the first cars I ever worked on and did mods and aftermarket work to its sentimental and I intend to make it last. I came from 4cyl imports so a 3800 v6 is plenty for me as long as everything is working together the 3800 is ballsy enough for me. Im sure that mixed with a working trans will get good enough mpg and do burnouts when i want

Edited July 28, 2011 by Recian (see edit history)

[padgett]

Understand completely (and not a fan of boosted gaoline engines), once you get to know a car, why take on someone else's problems when you know yours ?

BTW about the time my Judge (3,600 built but not many with a/c and 4-speed) was the age a Reatta is now, it was a six hundred dollar car.

[Guest Recian]

exactly. thats how reattas will be in 15 years. theyll hit a point theyre so rare the value will go way up. im not banking on that i just want a nice reliable car thats nice to look at. ive already got new of every engine sensor and coils and icm why go with a sc and have to buy all new ones? i want a car with an engine thats like new. im not a honda guy that just swaps out an engine because its old. if i ever do a sc or v8 itll be on a reatta with a blown engine that cant be fixed not a salvagable one. i want all original with 0 miles on the drivetrain

[Guest Richard D]

Understand completely (and not a fan of boosted gaoline engines), once you get to know a car, why take on someone else's problems when you know yours ?

BTW about the time my Judge (3,600 built but not many with a/c and 4-speed) was the age a Reatta is now, it was a six hundred dollar car.

Paggett, I saw a white Judge with the eye brow stripes all original at a local car show. After he parked it he put a for sale sign on it, I asked him what he was asking $55,000.00 was the answer. About one hour later the sign was gone and the new owner was handing him a wad of cash and a check for the deposit. Never did get the mileage though.

[2seater]

I admire your gumption and understand what you are after. It has been several years since I looked for a replacement engine to "improve", but at that time, engines and transaxles were plentiful, and cheap, even low mileage ones. Unfortunately a 20 year old drivetrain may have gone off to scrap, but it might be worthwhile to check? Even though common, the rebuild parts for a Buick are generally much higher than for the common Chevy equivalent. There is certainly a sense of satisfaction when your own handiwork hums to life and I tend to take the road less travelled myself. The only concern I would mention is: if one of the more robust parts of the car has this many problems, what other areas may show up down the road? I wish you well with your project.

[Guest Recian]

The minor problems im having with this car are the common problems all the reatta guys up here know of. Broken door switches, bad wiring or modules etc. The engine and transmission problems arose for a different reason. My friend sold the car to a kid that was about 20 yrs old. He drove it til the tranny fluid leaked out and burned up the clutches. In the process he let the cooling fans go bad and left unchecked which caused it to overheat which is what's led to the engine problems and why he parked the car and how I got it. Ive never owned a car that i didnt have to yank the engine out. And ive owned quite a few cars all makes. The common problems with the interior and little quirks will in time get fixed one by one on a rainy or sunday afternoon project type of scenario. Just gota get the car reliable by fixing the engine and trans and it's definately not the first time ive done this to a car lol

Edited August 5, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

The problem is we are becoming more and more a throw away society. Especially many of this youngest generation. They buy something cheap, have no idea what maintenance is and then beat the snot out of it.

Think about it, this kid bought the car cheap, used it up and "threw" it away. Now he is on to another...

Edited August 5, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Booreatta]

i agree with all of you guys, except I am not sure the Reatta will become a top dollar collectable. Looking at the past the following seems to hold. If a car was not popular when it was new then it most likely wont be popular when it is old. Thats why the Camaros, Chevelles, Mustangs, GTOs, 442s, and GSXs are sought after. There are a lot of cars from the 60s and 70s that are not collected in great quanties, When is the last time you saw a Maverick, Pinto, Elite etc. They are collected but not in great numbers and dont seem to hold their value as well. Time will be the best judge for the Reatta.

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

[padgett]

True for mass produced cars. OTOH TOL cars that did not sell well when new tend to do better particularly if "different" but all tend to be cheap at about 20. Look at 55-57 T-birds. When the 58 square bird came out with four seats it immediately outsold the two seaters.

For that matter in the late 30s ACD was stratified and all were cheap and cheaper after WWII.

[Booreatta]

True for mass produced cars. OTOH TOL cars that did not sell well when new tend to do better particularly if "different" but all tend to be cheap at about 20. Look at 55-57 T-birds. When the 58 square bird came out with four seats it immediately outsold the two seaters.

For that matter in the late 30s ACD was stratified and all were cheap and cheaper after WWII.

I only wish I owned one of the cars from the ACD group. Even when I was a kid I never saw a Cord or Auburn and I lived in Kansas at the time. I dont think that we can compare one of those to the Reatta, but in 30 years, who knows, my grandkids might think I had great vision

Chuck Kerls

[padgett]

In 2025 the fleet average in the US is commited to be 54.5 mpg. I doubt that there will be many gasoline engines. My diesel Vixen may still be mobile.

Wonder what the automakers are figuring to have signed up for this.

[Guest Recian]

good luck with that. First i dont think the US will last that long with the way it's going. Second that's twice our average mpg now so by then the gas prices will be twice what they are now so the US people are f**d either way because if business and govt have their way the people will make half what they do now and never get any kind of retirement. The equation doesnt add up and that's why we are where we are. The rich get richer and the poor get even more poor

[padgett]

When things collapse there will always be a demand for people who can fix anything.

[Guest Recian]

thats where guys like us come in

[Guest Richard D]

Has anyone priced a clean stock Vega or Pinto? You will be in for a surprise. in the last 6 months I saw a 1977 Vega GT go for $12,000.00 very low mileage and a nice 74 Pinto sell for $5,600. Both cars were well optioned "for the time" and had working A/C.

[padgett]

Didn't the 77 have the Iron Duke ? Back in the day I had several Vegas all 4spd GTs with A/C (A/C cars had real radiators). Also had a 75 Astre Safari Safari (think I still have the f'glass pieces that turned a square side window into curved.

Nowdays I'd rather have a 73 Volvo P1800ES.

[wws944]

Has anyone priced a clean stock Vega or Pinto? You will be in for a surprise. in the last 6 months I saw a 1977 Vega GT go for $12,000.00 very low mileage and a nice 74 Pinto sell for $5,600. Both cars were well optioned "for the time" and had working A/C.

A fool and his money... Though a Cosworth Vega is slightly more interesting.

[KDirk]

I'm always surprised to find a Vega that has a body left today. Seriously, my dad bought a Vega (75 or 76 I think) to replace a 68 Camaro (that was slowly rusting into oblivion) when I was very young (under two years) as he needed a "practical car" now that he and mom had me, and my sister on the way. Ah, the joys of fatherhood, loosing the muscle car and getting an econo-sedan!

Anyway, he kept the Vega (and took meticulous care of it, wash and wax on regular basis and so forth) for about 4 years. He sold it to my one uncles [first] ex-wife at that time, and within 8-10 months it was literally rotting away. Now, this was a car bought new and taken exceptional care of for 4 years. By the end of it's fifth year, it looked like garbage and I don't think it made it to 8 years before being scrapped.

To get back on topic, I think the Reatta has a better shot at being collectible somewhere down the road (assuming our road doesn't end before then, Recian hits on some major concerns that I share about the future) because it is rare, unusual, and has numerous other oddities - quasi-hand built, only Buick 2 seater made after WWII, and heavy on the cutting edge electronics - that set it apart.

It is also a nice looking car whose design has aged so well it is hard for the unfamiliar to pinpoint it as an 80's/90's car, and I think that says something. Add the fact that it has a solid powertrain that is not temperamental (I like classic muscle too, but messing with carbs all the time just sucks, sorry) and so aside from the electronics (and Teves ABS to a growing extent) it is pretty easy to maintain. What this means is that these cars can be kept going a long time with some know-how and determination. The big downside is that there is virtually no repro parts support (at least so far, and I don't predict a lot in the future) for the Reatta, unlike many popular classics presently enjoy.

I can understand what Recian is doing, and while it can be terribly frustrating to work the kinks out of an abused car, when it is done and working right, there is some satisfaction gleaned from it being the fruit of one's own labor. I put a lot of work into my 91, and more money than I paid for it to get it "right". At that, it still isn't 100% done. But, the pace of work has decelerated due to the major stuff being done, and my current heavily cut playtoy budget due to work being terribly slow. At least it looks good and runs reliably. Now I can prioritize what still needs doing.

Finally, Daves89 has a point about the throw away society. I would add this general mentality is largely what makes the collectibles of the future. Of course, it may be worse than that; society itself is turning into the ultimate throw away from the way things are trending. Better make sure you have a good spare and working seat belts, it's gonna be a rough ride ahead.

KDirk

[padgett]

Apparently insurance fraud has gone up as the economy goes down, at least that is the reason G. gave for increasing my rates 25% in a year. Also am told that over a third of the drivers (illegally) do not have insurance despite having to have proof to get plates. Modern times.

[KDirk]

Padgett,

getting O/T here, but need to say this:

Most likely the offenders of the insurance law are just getting month to month policies starting in the month they have to get their tags renewed. That way, they have the papers showing proof of insurance. Then, after the plates are issued, they let the policy lapse. We have the same thing here in MO; buy one month of insurance, get two year tags, and then let the insurance lapse for the remaining 23 months that the tags are valid. Result: instant savings of 23 months of insurance premiums. If they don't get caught or have a wreck, that's real money saved - for them - not us who play by the rules.

Any idiot could foresee this would happen, which is why allowing insurance carriers (albeit disreputable ones) to issue auto policies on a monthly basis should probably be disallowed. Then again, without these policies, many would just get a conventional 6 or 12 month policy and stop paying on it after the first month. Result is cancellation and no insurance, so just the same.

I guess my point is that when people choose to break laws with impunity, passing more will not magically compel them to stop doing so. They assess the risk/reward ratio, and have decided that the risk from breaking this law is not great enough to be concerned with. The reward is money in their pocket. The real danger in this attitude is that it slowly, inexorably chisels away at everyone's respect for the rule of law until nobody has it anymore. I believe that is the road we are all on based on many things I am seeing today. Fraud [insurance and otherwise] is now ingrained in business, government and individuals to an extent that is downright maddening, and it is playing a large part in killing our economy.

Don't know what the solution is, except maybe to paraphrase the 5 Man Electrical Band:

"And the sign said uninsured drivers will be shot on sight..."

KDirk

[Ronnie]

Here in Tennessee the insurance law is useless. You don't even have to show proof of insurance to get a driver's license or a license plate. You are asked for proof of insurance if you get stopped but what good is that? Our insurance law gets law enforcement a fee if you get stopped but does little else.

If someone without insurance is involved in a wreck it's too late then. They are usually driving a $300 car, renting a house and have no bank accounts. They have nothing to lose. Insured, law biding drivers still end up paying for those who choose to break the law through higher insurance premiums. I guess crime does pay after all.

[NCReatta]

Here in Tennessee the insurance law is useless. You don't even have to show proof of insurance to get a driver's license or a license plate. You are asked for proof of insurance if you get stopped but what good is that? Our insurance law gets law enforcement a fee if you get stopped but does little else.

If someone without insurance is involved in a wreck it's too late then. They are usually driving a $300 car, renting a house and have no bank accounts. They have nothing to lose. Insured, law biding drivers still end up paying for those who choose to break the law through higher insurance premiums. I guess crime does pay after all.

Painful but true Ronnie...

NC Requires proof of insurance (in the form of a policy number), but they don't enforce the next step. Which is actually adding the car onto your policy.

Say you're a normal Joe like me, who has a policy with USAA (Like I do). You have your Daily insured with them, and have your insurance card an all. But then you go out an buy a second toy (like a Reatta.. heh..).

When you go to the DMV to register your new toy, they ask for "Proof of Insurance" I show them that I have insurance, but it's not actually for that car.. yet. They're simply relying on the honesty system for you to call up your insurance company and add the car to your policy.

I when I bought the '90 vert, I had the title transferred to my name, and they gave me a tag (and didn't give me a choice weather I wanted one or not). They asked for proof of insurance, and I gave them my policy number, and they put that on the registration .

Since I wasn't driving the car at all, but just parking it and working on it, I didn't insure it.I didn't drive it (except to stretch it's legs about once a week on my road) for about 3 months. I never got a call from anyone about it. Not the DMV, not my insurance company.. nobody.

I finally did insure it, because it was pretty close to done, and I was going to be driving it to car shows and such a lot.

So I think that's why lots of cars are uninsured. There's just nobody making them go through.

[Guest Richard D]

quote, Don't know what the solution is, except maybe to paraphrase the 5 Man Electrical Band:

"And the sign said uninsured drivers will be shot on sight..."

Great song.