Asbestos Backed Carpet ?

[Guest Silverghost]

I am looking to replace the carpet in my 1927 USA built Phantom I with original type & style capet.

I have the old carpet that is moth eaten to use as a pattern

It is a very heavy plush wool carpet

It has a sewn border edge binding with a leather foot pedal area...

BUT~

It also has a very heavy woven asbestos backing.

This backing along with the carpet itself makes it two ply.heald together be the complete sewn edge-binding.

I supect the asbestos backing is for heat insulation and under car sound absorbsion ?

The under asbestos layer looks like new !

Did many cars in the 20s-30s have this asbestos layer ?

Who can re-make and with edge binding this new carpet along with also using this old asbestos backing ?

They would need to edge-bind the asbestos backing to the new plush wool carpet.

I want to keep it 100% original as built ~

I wish to re-use the heavy woven asbestos matting!

The asbestos is not flaking or dusting.

When most interior folks see asbestos backing they don't want the job !

Are there any good old auto carpet guys near Phladelphia who might take-on this job ?

Edited October 21, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

The steam car guys replace the original asbestos boiler insulation with a modern synthetic called, I believe, Fiberfax or some such name. It looks very similar, does the job. doesn't (to anyone's knowledge) cause cancer, and doesn't upset the enviros.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Dave@Moon]

Asbestos is not an environmental issue, it's a health concern. It's a naturally occurring substance, and dangerous as hell. Personally I wouldn't knowingly get near an asbestos containing carpet. It's practically the textbook definition of friable asbestos, where the material is easily broken into tiny fibers that are then found airborne and inhaled.

As far as getting anyone to touch this stuff professionally, forget about. Any employee of a shop that even allowed the carpet in the building would be an OSHA liability for the shop, not to mention being seriously at risk. As far as trying to work with this carpet yourself, the protective equipment to do so safely would be cost prohibitive. And you would need it even if you just used the carpet for a pattern, let alone if you tried to resew a new asbestos-like backing into the old carpet.

Your local officials should be able to help you dispose of the old carpet as safely as possible. Just tossing it in the trash will expose you to liabilities from the garbage truck operators and the landfill employees that handle it.

===============

BTW, are you sure it's asbestos? It would be a very expensive use of the material, even in a Rolls. Some jute materials (commonly used for carpet underlinings) can look very much like asbestos. Asbestos is usually white or light gray in color, and obvioulsy won't burn like jute materials.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Guest Silverghost]

The EPA & the government have folks scared to death about ALL asbestos products !

The same is true of lead paint on old houses etc.

Also volatile organic compounds. VOC s

You can no longer buy & use Laquer auto paint...

Oil based paints are now also banned !

Go into any store you almost only find water based paint proucts~

Where will it all end ?

This all has been over-hyped too much !

It was our same governmemt that required asbestos fire-proofing in buildings in the first place !

The Navy required it to be used on all warships~

I agree if asbestos is dusty, friable, or flaking~

Is a serious Danger~

Stay away from it !

It is a dangerous health hazard...

This heavy woven carpet backing is not shedding any dust particles.

There is no doubt in my mind that tis carpet backing IS asbestos !

I will try to keep it !

[Dave@Moon]

The EPA & the government have folks scared to death about ALL asbestos products !

EPA has basically 3 regs on friable asbestos; 1. You're not allowed to make or install it in a number of things, 2. Worker protection rules for asbestos removal and disposal, and 3. If it's in a school you have to remove it. All of the other regs re. asbestos are health-effects based, and come mainly from OSHA.

It was our same governmemt that required asbestos fire-proofing in buildings in the first place !

The Navy required it to be used on all warships~

From Steve McQueen - Malignant Mesothelioma Information :

McQueen had been surrounded by asbestos all of his life. As a young adult, McQueen was employed in the construction industry, where asbestos was often present at job sites. While serving as a Marine, McQueen worked at shipyards where he was responsible for stripping asbestos off the pipes used in naval ships (asbestos was used in the insulation of modern ships built before 1976). It has also been suggested that McQueen, an avid car racer, may have been exposed to asbestos when repairing the brake linings of race cars and/or wearing the protective helmets and driving suits associated with the sport.

As I recall, Steve McQueen only worked in that shipyard for 9 months. He died about 30 years later, at age 50.

I agree if asbestos is dusty, friable, or flaking~

Is a serious Danger~

Stay away from it !

It is a dangerous health hazard...

This heavy woven carpet backing is not shedding any dust particles.

There is no doubt in my mind that tis carpet backing IS asbestos !

I will try to keep it !

From Friable vs. Non-Friable Asbestos | Asbestos.com :

The legal definitions of "friable" and "non-friable" asbestos clearly depicts the differences between dangerous and safe asbestos-containing materials (ACMs).

Friable ACM (asbestos containing material) is any material that contains more than one percent asbestos by weight or area, depending on whether it is a bulk or sheet material and can be crumbled, pulverized, or reduced to powder by the pressure of an ordinary human hand.

Hand pressure is enough to raise dust when you rub back and forth on cotton denim (do it in bright sunlight to see the fibers released). Asbestos releases particals too small to be seen. You need a HEPA filter to remove them.

You're walking/stepping/standing on this stuff.

Everyone chooses their own risks, that's their/your right, if they know them. Who's going to be riding in this car with you?

Edited October 22, 2010 by Dave@Moon
Added McQueen info., forgot about EPA worker protections regs (see edit history)

[Rawja]

Silverghost,

If it is indeed asbestos be smart and lay your new carpet over the old carpet and forget about it.

As Dave stated above the problem is with the microscopic particles, not the ones you can see.

[Stude Light]

Not buying or selling here, but personally, I would get rid of the asbestos. If you decide to risk doing this yourself, you must saturate the carpet with water. This will keep fibers from floating around. Gently remove the carpet and put it in a heavy mil trash bag (6mil plus). Multiple bags would be best. Keeping it wet is the key. You could call around and see about best way to dispose of it. It usually goes to a regular landfill (not a hazardous landfill) but is handled differently to keep from tearing the bag. Wet asbestos is very inert.

You will also need to clean up any of the residue left in the car (while it is still wet). Do your best and keep everything wet while working with it.

You don't want to breathe of ingest the fibers or allow anyone else to. That said, the stuff is really everywhere in small quantities - vermiculite insulation, farm fields, floating around in the air, etc. Repeated exposure to higher quantities is what causes health hazards. Minimize that and you minimize your risk.

[Guest moto826]

i install comercial floring and in schools when there is asbestos tiles we install right over it

[MarkV]

My school sent a letter when I was in JH saying that they would maintain the asbestos and that it held no danger as long as it was maintained. My idea is to throw it in the trash and forget about it. Much to the chagrin of everyone, the 'recycle' can and trash cans all go to the same place, it is just a pile of bs. But, seal it up, with several bags

[old car fan]

I think it is all a joke ,i ,have personally seen the abatement,it,s overpriced and not managed..Years ago,we used to do it with none of the gear,they say you should have.Like silverghost,i think its more of a scare tactic than anything,heck how many of us pulled drums off,blew the dust off,to replace shoes?No one on this post has it killed yet,more asbestes in old shoes.My two cents.

[Guest bofusmosby]

To go a bit further, as already stated, keep it wet. However, it is best to use a water/soap solution. This works better than just water. Use this solution when you are using the original carpet for a pattern. If there is any question, you can send a sample out (I have included the link) to have it tested. I have done the same before I started repairing my old plaster in my house. Its better to be safe than sorry. If you get a positive on the sample sent in, I would not re-use it.

ACCUKITS, LLC

[JohnD1956]

I think it is all a joke ,i ,have personally seen the abatement,it,s overpriced and not managed..Years ago,we used to do it with none of the gear,they say you should have.Like silverghost,i think its more of a scare tactic than anything,heck how many of us pulled drums off,blew the dust off,to replace shoes?No one on this post has it killed yet,more asbestes in old shoes.My two cents.

And how many people do you know who smoked cigarettes all their life with no problems . Sure they are out there but, vs those who smoked and have many cronic breathing problems they are few in numbers. Each person's resistance is unknown. That does not mean that the risk is of no consequence. Especially troubling is setting someone else up by just dumping the stuff in the garbage. How fair is that to some unsuspecting worker who then comes across it by accident?

[A by the sea]

I talked to a guy who did abatement for a living. He told me that statistically 80% of the people who smoked when they worked with asbestos got cancer. Only 20% of those who did not smoke.

Size matters. A certain size particle is less likely to be pushed out by the cillia that smoking prevents from clearing particles from your lungs.

Having a scared population is important for the jury awards. Keep in mind the asbestos awards is a huge industry for the litigation attorneys. I read something that the lawyers have made 10 billion off this.

Keep in mind I am saying the asbestos is bad. Frequently the schools with asbestos only contribute a minor exposure when compared to the dirt kids play in when they get home.

Now you need to keep in mind that you do not have an asbestos backing. For future reference, it is a mineral fiber backing. You go around mentioning the A word and you are just asking for trouble!