Shoulder belts, when did they become common?

[Guest ken bogren]

I've been trying to figure out when shoulder belts became common, especially in convertibles, and can't pin it down.

Anyone know a timeline for this?

I seem to recall it was maybe 1968 for sedans and hardtops, but I'm not sure about that and have no idea for convertibles.

We're thinking of picking up another convertible and shoulderbelts would make a difference if they were common in convertibles of the 1968 -75 period.

Otherwise we'd probably look for a mid 50s to mid 60s car.

[BOPcollector]

Very uncommon on convertibles. GM convertibles had the option from about 1969 but also very uncommon.

[Guest dokks6t9]

Very uncommon on convertibles. GM convertibles had the option from about 1969 but also very uncommon.

You're correct. My 69 Nova has both shoulder and lap belts. I believe the shoulder belts were optional.

[Guest Timthemailman]

My folks got a 69" Merc. Comet Sports Coupe brand new. It came w/ sholder & lap belts.

[joe_padavano]

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 208 mandated front outboard shoulder belts on all cars made starting Jan 1, 1968. Convertibles were excepted. Prior to that, shoulder belts WERE an available option. My friend has a 1967 GTO convertible with factory installed shoulder belts front AND back. The Fisher Body Manual also shows the installation of these optional belts.

[Terry Bond]

Joe is correct - they were an option on the 67 Pontiacs. Don't know if that was the first availability or not. European cars may have offered them much earlier.

Terry

[cutlasguy]

The shoulder belts on my 72 Cutlass are a nightmare. First of all only the lap belt is retractable and the shoulder belt, being rigid, must be preadjusted for size and it's pin slid into the lap belt's buckle. This pin must be kept tight as you pull the lap belt across or it won't clip into the receiving buckle! You actually need a third hand to hold it upright and guide it in. Seat belts have come a long way "Thank God"

[Guest ken bogren]

Thanks for the info folks.

The Fisher Body Manual also shows the installation of these optional belts.

I wonder if that were the case for all GM convertibles of the period?

And I wonder if it is relatively easy to retrofit a GM convertible with shoulder belts if they were an option for the year, make, model new.

[West Peterson]

Our 1967 Eldorado has shoulder belts.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

I believe it was with my Dad's '70 Nova, the shoulder belts clipped-in to a key-hole in the lap-belt tongue before that was inserted into the latch ?

And, if you didn't care to use the shoulder-belt, there were clips above the door, on the headliner where you could loop the belt for storage... yeah, they were a fiddly nightmare.

Edited May 10, 2010 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)

[Guest]

Joe is correct - they were an option on the 67 Pontiacs. Don't know if that was the first availability or not. European cars may have offered them much earlier.

Terry

I have them in my 69 LeMans and they are the 4 point type ( two buckles per seat). They were on pontiac's in 67.

Now here is a funny thing, A 66 Pontiac Tempest has the reinforced nut welded in located above the "B" pillar for the shoulder harness bolt, but unlike the 67 it is covered by the headliner. My guess is the regulation for shoulder harness is 67 and GM didn't want to spend the money until the last minute, but they knew the legislation was coming so when they were designing the 66-67"A" body roofs they welded the nut in.

Don

[rocketraider]

Starting 1966 there's a punchout on the Fisher Body data plate that indicates whether that particular body has provision for shoulder belt mounting. I think it was along the top edge of the plate.

My dad's 68 ElCamino (bought Feb 68) had shoulder belts, and they were plumb clumsy to use. I came very close to not reinstalling them on the 69 Toronado. I think the only time I ever had them out of their storage clips was to clean them.

[Guest]

Starting 1966 there's a punchout on the Fisher Body data plate that indicates whether that particular body has provision for shoulder belt mounting. I think it was along the top edge of the plate.

My dad's 68 ElCamino (bought Feb 68) had shoulder belts, and they were plumb clumsy to use. I came very close to not reinstalling them on the 69 Toronado. I think the only time I ever had them out of their storage clips was to clean them.

My 69 leMans as mentioned above has two buckles per front seat and they work perfect. When you strap in you are tight just like racing belts, however most people don't like the restriction because they have so many other things to do besides drive. Then the inertia "G" load three point belts were designed to free up the driver so he could perform other tasks while driving. Of course if he moved too fast the belt would lock up causing further complaints from so called drivers.

So for 67 we have three new very good new safety devices ; shoulder harness, dual circuit brakes, and collapsible steering column. With most cars having a disc brake option

Don

[joe_padavano]

The shoulder belts on my 72 Cutlass are a nightmare. First of all only the lap belt is retractable and the shoulder belt, being rigid, must be preadjusted for size and it's pin slid into the lap belt's buckle. This pin must be kept tight as you pull the lap belt across or it won't clip into the receiving buckle! You actually need a third hand to hold it upright and guide it in. Seat belts have come a long way "Thank God"

Be aware that your lap belt may be retractable, but it is NOT an inertia reel. You need to be sure it is fully extended from the retractor. All adjustment must be done with the female end of the belt.

[Guest dokks6t9]

I believe it was with my Dad's '70 Nova, the shoulder belts clipped-in to a key-hole in the lap-belt tongue before that was inserted into the latch ?

And, if you didn't care to use the shoulder-belt, there were clips above the door, on the headliner where you could loop the belt for storage... yeah, they were a fiddly nightmare.

When I put in a new headliner on my 69 Nova, I eliminated the shoulder belts and those clips. I have just the lap belts.

[Guest]

When I put in a new headliner on my 69 Nova, I eliminated the shoulder belts and those clips. I have just the lap belts.

Guess we won't feel sorry if your head hits the dash or steering wheel while your torso stays in place. Ever been in a hard accident with only lap belts???--it feels like you've been torn in two. ...........Just remember if you ever sell that car and even if you tell the new owner what you did that whole mess could come back on you. I'm sure what you've done is not legal anyway. They do save lives no mistake. Ever wonder why insurance is so expensive and in some states vehicle inspection is a way of life for some people?

Don

[Guest Bob Call]

I had a 68 Bonneville convert and it had only lap belts. I traded it in on a 69 Gran Prix which had sholder belts that were attached to the roof above the quarter windows. They were non-retractable and there was a little wire clip just behind the A pillar above the window to stow the belt.

[Guest dokks6t9]

Guess we won't feel sorry if your head hits the dash or steering wheel while your torso stays in place. Ever been in a hard accident with only lap belts???--it feels like you've been torn in two. ...........Just remember if you ever sell that car and even if you tell the new owner what you did that whole mess could come back on you. I'm sure what you've done is not legal anyway. They do save lives no mistake. Ever wonder why insurance is so expensive and in some states vehicle inspection is a way of life for some people?

Don

Please DON'T feel sorry for me. The shoulder belts were optional so why bother with them. As for legality, they were never on the car from the start, as far as I'm concerned..Seat belts are not part of any inspection here in NY. The user had a CHOICE; use shoulder belts or a lap belt... Why so negative??

[Guest billybird]

In 1968 my dad had Ford Torino GT. Back then I thought the shoulder belts were so cool to wear. It made me feel like I was in a race car or something. Little did I know back then that one day we would be forced to wear them. Also, seems to me there was a latch for the lap belt and a seperate latch for the shoulder belt, but it's been a long time and I would't swear to that in court.

[Guest]

Please DON'T feel sorry for me. The shoulder belts were optional so why bother with them. As for legality, they were never on the car from the start, as far as I'm concerned..Seat belts are not part of any inspection here in NY. The user had a CHOICE; use shoulder belts or a lap belt... Why so negative??

Sorry , read the law( FMVSS 209) and you will find a 1969 hardtop or sedan is required by Federal law to have lap and shoulder belts and not sure when drop tops go into effect. In California there is no inspection either, but if you are pulled over and are not wearing them you will be given a nice little fine.

Don

Edited May 11, 2010 by helfen (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

The shoulder belts were optional so why bother with them.

Helfen is right. By 1969 shoulder belts were mandated safety equipment, and removing them is a very sticky thing to do legally and in liability terms. In particular any front seat passenger injured in an accident in your car, or any subsequent owner having been so injured, could likely have grounds to seek damages (although don't construe this as legal advice, I am not an attorney).

[Guest dokks6t9]

So, what am I supposed to do?? I checked the original seatbelts and they have only one slot, engage the shoulder belt or the seat belt??' Not trying to be argumentative. I've been driving the car since 1992-3, drag racing it from 93-94, and have never been stopped, have gone through road-side inspections, etc.

[ted sweet]

sounds like parts are missing.

[Guest]

So, what am I supposed to do?? I checked the original seatbelts and they have only one slot, engage the shoulder belt or the seat belt??' Not trying to be argumentative. I've been driving the car since 1992-3, drag racing it from 93-94, and have never been stopped, have gone through road-side inspections, etc.

First your car is supposed to have a four point belt system. That means a lap belt and shoulder belt system. That means two buckles per front seat if it's a bucket seat car or if it's a bench seat car means two belts for the driver and rt passenger and one belt system for the middle a total of six belt system just for the front.

Now if Dave and I didn't care about higher insurance rates and inspections that might be forth comming, because people remove these things, or inspections by law enforcement already happening. If we didn't care what legal implications removing these devises has to you or someone else that might later buy your car or someone in your car with you if you have a accident. Or worse yet someone reading these threads here thinking it OK to do these things. We wouldn't say a thing, but remember we are not out to get you, we are out to help you and all our members avoid a possible disaster pending.

Don

[Dave@Moon]

To answer the original question, shoulder belts were required by NHTSA for all convertibles sold after 1/1/1973. However other countries had requirements that took effect sooner, or didn't have any exemption for convertibles. I personally don't know of an imported convertible after 1968 that didn't have them.

[Guest dokks6t9]

Well, I guess I'll just enjoy the car the way I've been doing the past 17 or so years. Thanks to all who attempted to help....

[joe_padavano]

Please DON'T feel sorry for me. The shoulder belts were optional so why bother with them. As for legality, they were never on the car from the start, as far as I'm concerned..Seat belts are not part of any inspection here in NY. The user had a CHOICE; use shoulder belts or a lap belt... Why so negative??

Normally I would agree with you. The decision not to wear belts is simply evolution in action. If it were only the case of the person making the choice was the one hurt, that would be fine. Unfortunately, my wallet gets hurt in the form of higher insurance premiums to pay for the medical bills of folks who don't wear belts. If these folks were willing to give up medical payments from their insurance company, then I'd certainly have no problem.

[Guest ken bogren]

... shoulder belts were required by NHTSA for all convertibles sold after 1/1/1973. ...

Dave; Thanks, that's the key I was hoping to find.

[Guest dokks6t9]

Normally I would agree with you. The decision not to wear belts is simply evolution in action. If it were only the case of the person making the choice was the one hurt, that would be fine. Unfortunately, my wallet gets hurt in the form of higher insurance premiums to pay for the medical bills of folks who don't wear belts. If these folks were willing to give up medical payments from their insurance company, then I'd certainly have no problem.

I wear my seat belt religiously, no matter whose car I'm in, front seat or back.My only thing was the shoulder strap. As for insurance premiums, one must only look at the drivers who yack on their cell phones, blow through red-lights, go 10-15 over the posted limit, etc, etc. Not to pick on any one state, but driving through Virginia on I -95, one can only assume every driver out there must be a NASCAR wannabe.I know, every state has them,lol...My position was if you had/have an option on whether to wear the lap or shoulder belt, I would stick with the lap.

[Guest]

I wear my seat belt religiously, no matter whose car I'm in, front seat or back.My only thing was the shoulder strap. As for insurance premiums, one must only look at the drivers who yack on their cell phones, blow through red-lights, go 10-15 over the posted limit, etc, etc. Not to pick on any one state, but driving through Virginia on I -95, one can only assume every driver out there must be a NASCAR wannabe.I know, every state has them,lol...My position was if you had/have an option on whether to wear the lap or shoulder belt, I would stick with the lap.

I just got off the phone with California Highway Patrol because I was confused by the technical aspect of what they mean by seatbelts. It was explained to me that the term seatbelt also refers to the lap belt. So If I get stopped with my 69 Pontiac LeMans and I only have (in the technical terms) my lap belt on and the shoulder harness disconnected I still get the fine for not wearing a seatbelt. According to the CHP there is no option. If your car came with them you must wear them. We know every state is different so I urge all of you to call your states Highway Patrol and see how your state interprets its and the Federal law.

Don

[rocketraider]

I'd argue that 1973 date based on having owned a 1973 Oldsmobile Delta convertible built June 1973 that had neither shoulder belts nor visible provisions for mounting them. The mounting provision for the optional shoulder belts was probably behind the rear quarter trim panels, but there was no evidence they'd ever been installed.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a 1975 Olds or other fullsize GM ragtop with them either. I'm not familiar enough with the 1976 Eldorado to know whether they came with them or not.

I also highly doubt the insurance companies had altruistic intentions when they lobbied for mandatory restraint systems. More like they were trying to keep from paying out settlements. They made more money as a result, while the cost of these restraints was ultimately passed on to new car buyers.

I'll wear lap/shoulder belts in cars that integrate them into one assembly. I'll wear lap belts only in cars that have only lap belts, or in cars that have separate lap/shoulder belts. The shoulder belts will stay stowed in their retaining clips.

Cars that never came with lap belts, I'll install if there's a proper reinforced anchor point. Otherwise they give a false sense of security.

[Guest dokks6t9]

I'd argue that 1973 date based on having owned a 1973 Oldsmobile Delta convertible built June 1973 that had neither shoulder belts nor visible provisions for mounting them. The mounting provision for the optional shoulder belts was probably behind the rear quarter trim panels, but there was no evidence they'd ever been installed.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a 1975 Olds or other fullsize GM ragtop with them either. I'm not familiar enough with the 1976 Eldorado to know whether they came with them or not.

I also highly doubt the insurance companies had altruistic intentions when they lobbied for mandatory restraint systems. More like they were trying to keep from paying out settlements. They made more money as a result, while the cost of these restraints was ultimately passed on to new car buyers.

I'll wear lap/shoulder belts in cars that integrate them into one assembly. I'll wear lap belts only in cars that have only lap belts, or in cars that have separate lap/shoulder belts. The shoulder belts will stay stowed in their retaining clips.

Cars that never came with lap belts, I'll install if there's a proper reinforced anchor point. Otherwise they give a false sense of security.

I completely agree with your last 2 paragraphs.Am I going to install belts in my 40 Olds?? No way..Will I continue to use my lap belt in my Nova?? Certainly.. If a trooper does stop me, and looks in, he'll see that I am wearing my seatbelt, and there are no shoulder belts. I don't see any problem.. If I may inject a little humor,I believe Kalifornia and the former Soviet Union have basically the same laws,lol.

[Barry Wolk]

My wife reminds me that our '68 Firebird did not have shoulder belts, but was probably built before January 1, 1968.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Glenn, I was just alerted to read this thread. You are right on the Olds ragtop. My '75 18,000 mile Delta 88 does not have shoulder belts. It does have that nasty beeping sound when I don't buckle it though!

I have all my dealer ordering guides in the garage somewhere and will check them later to see what they said about shoulder belts. I sure don't remember that far back despite ordering thousands of cars!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[ted sweet]

the original poster could aslo be ticketed in new york state.

[Guest ken bogren]

Well I found a webpage with some additional info. Features a 1972 Buick GS convertible.

Shoulder Belts in a 72 Buick GS convertible

Edited May 13, 2010 by ken bogren (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

This is a link to a summary of the NHTSA Motor Vehicle Safety Standards: Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations . The seat belt regulations are listed in Section 209. Note that the initial 1/1/1968 regulation specifically exempts convertibles, and the 1/1/1973 update has the language exempting them removed. (The same update mandated retractable mechanisms for the shoulder belt assembly.)

Most American 1970s convertible seat belts had seat belts that connected to the body side behind the door (often a convertible roof mounting bolt). For any car with a back seat they were obnoxious to deal with, especially since they had to be retractable and couldn't just be piled on the floor and forgotten. Other 2 door cars had higher mounting points for the shoulder belts, which could be ducked under for admission to the back seat. Many if not most cars had them removed in the age before seat belt laws.

[rocketraider]

We have proven examples of a 1973 car built after 1/1/73 and a 1975 car that do not have and have never had shoulder belts. GM could not have sold these cars in the US without shoulder belts if the standards required them when the cars were built, and they were the last American carmaker to abandon convertibles, in 1976.

[Guest 1hooligan]

I puchased a 1969 Merc cougar convertable, in Calif, new in March 1969. It did not have shoulder belts, just lap belts. I do not remember them being an option, but again I was 18, and I was most interested in a go fast four speed.

[Guest ken bogren]

Well I actually saw a 71 Olds Cutlass (Supreme?) SX convertible to day that has the shoulder belts installed. I'll post a couple photos later if anyone is interested.

Edited May 23, 2010 by ken bogren (see edit history)