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Construction of a Continental Mark II model, scale 1:12


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The rear axle is slowly coming to the end. There are still minor elements to add: the plug to drain the oil and the one to fill it up, plus 4 grease nipples at the brake shaft bearings.
The first picture is showing my method to position the axle shafts (crude but effective) and the recently done end cover.
 

116 axle shafts.JPG

117 with diff cover.JPG

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The drain and filling plugs were added (without picture). The big question was: and now, with what can I continue? During the winter, I prepared vaguely the pattern for the frame. It was the right time to finish it. Now, I can prepare two long brass bands; the flanges from the vertical "U" will be hammered on this thick pattern, allowing to make a RH and a LH frame rail.
I noticed recently that my bottle of gas for silver soldering is getting empty. The problem is that now stores (except for food) are closed as long that Cornora virus is active.

118 Frame pattern.JPG

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As the template for the frame rail was ready, it was time to bend some brass on it!
In fact, there were two options for the frame rails: trim a bit of brass the same shape as the drawing and silver or soft solder the upper and lower flanges or bend the flanges on that template. Each variant has its advantages and disadvantages. Silver soldering the flanges is creating a lot of distorsion; soft soldering the flanges is not very robust, but the rework is minimal.
The bending solution is requiring more finishing work because, as the flanges are hammered, they elongate and the rails were looking like a banana. Plus the marks done on the flanges by the hammer. I choose a brass 0.5mm thick (0.02"), therefore the material is thick enough to allow some filing to get at the end 0.4mm.
There are just 2 places I had to repair with silver soldering: at the rear, the lower flange has rather small radiuses and one had too much material (I had too cut a slice) and at the other curve, the brass sheared. I have to say that I expected more problems.

119 Frame rails.JPG

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On 3/21/2020 at 10:49 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

I noticed recently that my bottle of gas for silver soldering is getting empty. The problem is that now stores (except for food) are closed as long that Cornora virus is active.

Now we have a problem.  How are we all suppose to pass time at home watching your project unfold if you totally run out and everything stops?  Not good.  This is worse than running out of TP. :unsure:

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Don't worry Martin: we checked if the gas was available on line and it is, delivered by the post. However, there is another problem till at least mid-April: to assemble the various elements on the frame, I will use rivets as it was done at that time. There are between 150 and 200 rivets and the company selling them is for the moment closed!

The elements can be soft soldered to the main rails, the holes drilled and the rivets will come later. You will be able to follow the small progresses if I'm not distracted by something else! For example, I have a 1959 Cadillac transmission which must be overhauled. Right now, it's to cold in my shop for that (5°C), but maybe in 10 days it will be warmer. The transmission is already disassembled; I just have to clean the parts and do the assembly when I will get the ordered clutches and gaskets.

Ausgebaute Teile.JPG

Ausgebaute Teile1.JPG

Ausgebaute Teile2.JPG

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9 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

There are between 150 and 200 rivets and the company selling them is for the moment closed!

Come on Roger. Couldn't you have planned better for this epidemic? 

 

With all kidding aside, take care of yourself and stay well. We'll all be looking for any updates that you post to help keep us sane. ;)

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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 8:55 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

 This is worse than running out of TP.

 

At least you can still use newspaper! The gas for silver soldering is a little more tricky to substitute. :)

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As my pattern was not thick enough, I had to skip the specific flange's shape at the rear. I silver soldered bands of brass to have the correct shape.
The main rails are not straight (seen from above) but has two bends, allowing the rear to be wider than the front. With that done, the main rails are done.

120 frame detail.JPG

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To continue with the frame, I choose the front supports of the front springs. To simplify, the RH and LH are not identical. I began with the easy one, the RH part. Easy? At first glance yes, but as all supports and brackets from that time, this was a casting. That tiny part is in fact constituted with 4 elements silver soldered. Some machining was required; the difficulty was to clamp the part which is far from regular or symmetrical. With some imagination I succeeded, without incident.
This support, which is also the base for the front bumper, is attached to the frame with 4 rivets; right now, it's soft soldered to the main rail. 2 rivets will be easy to do; they will go into the holes you can see. 2 rivets, one at the upper and the other at the lower flange will most probably be just for the show as riveting at the flanges at this scale is very difficult. This is the reason why all supports and brackets will be soft soldered to the rails.

122 Front spring attachment.JPG

123 Front spring attachment.JPG

124 Front spring attachment.JPG

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After the RH front spring attachment point was done, I began the LH one which is different. While I was drawing the "workshop sketch", I noticed that the casting is longer than the other side; therefore, I had to shorten the frame rail. I had previously done the holes for 2 rivets, they are now closed with soft solder as the correct ones are located about 2mm towards the rear.
The big question is: why this attachment point is so different that the other one? I'm not a connaisseur from the cars build in the thirties; I don't know if every car had that difference or only the expensive brands. By the way, the LaSalle models had that too.
Those who have such a car, please let the other people try to find the right answer! The solution will come in a couple of days.

125LH front spring att..JPG

126 LH front spring att..JPG

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My 1932 Dodge Brothers has a device on the driver's side front spring mount that supposedly dampened the steering.  As you can see in the photo, the drivers side looks totally different than the more conventional passenger side.  The leaf spring on the driver's side is also shorter than the other front spring.  This may be what's going on with your frame.

 

IMG_3766.thumb.JPG.89a013ac6a0f418a3c863156857daccb.JPG

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Exactly! In the Cadillac world, this arrangement was called "steering modulator", with following explanation: The steering modulator is designed to prevent shimmy and steering wheel whip. To accomplish this, the front shackle of the left front spring floats between two pairs of stiff coil springs. With this arrangement, the modulator springs absorb the road shocks which may otherwise be transmitted to the steering wheel.

If the system was functioning as intended is a question I cannot answer. This was eliminated when the independent front suspension was introduced. I'm adding a picture of the system used by Cadillac.

 

 

Avant gauche.JPG

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Sorry Roger, I had no idea as to why it was like that, didn't even have a guess.

 

Thanks to you and Taylormade for the explanation, I would have never even guessed it involved anything with the steering.

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Roger, that steering damper is so novel that the whole project is worth it just to learn that one thing! Well, there is plenty more to learn, but that's a good one. I wonder how many cars had similar things. And, when did they last use them?

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Well, those times are not so funny, but I'm staying safe!

Pat, from another forum, a member had a look under his Packard and another car I don't remember. They all had a similar system. That went away when the independent front suspension was adopted.

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When something must go wrong, it does it! That almost insignificant mobile element from the "modulator" was intended to be done is so few parts as possible and, of course so little silver soldering as possible, especially due to the fact that my gas bottle is almost empty. The new one should arrive next week, but our post system is surcharged by on-line orders.
What went wrong? A lot of bad reasoning, too much milling at the wrong place. All that required adding small elements on a part which had "consumed" already some work' hours. Finally that stupid part could be assembled temporarily on the frame with 4 springs (rather weak for the moment). The empty holes on the sides are for screws which should locate the solid axles. They will be added during the final assembly.

127 Modulator.JPG

128 Modulator.JPG

129 Modulator.JPG

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Roger

 

Long time lurker and admirer of your work.

Auburn had the same device on their  1932-33 models  and even issued a factory service bulletin to retrofit 1931 models for owners who were complaining of front end shimmy .

Their part was called a 'kick shackle' Seems like a common early 30's solution to solid front axle steering geometry issues. The adoption of Independent front suspension seems to have cured the problem until the death wobble appeared in 90's Jeep and Dodge products!

 

Brad

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As I just have only a little gas left for silver soldering, I began something needed no heat: the links for the shackles. On two previous models I did, it was just a flat part with 2 holes. On the Mark II, it was more complex. On the Cadillac model, there are 12 links: 4 at the rear of the front spings and 8 for the rear springs. At the rear, the ones at the front of the springs are shorter than at the rear, just to simplify! Those links are casted parts with the usual 2 holes for the spring's shafts and 2 more for bolts clamping the shafts. Plus other details we will see when I'm doing them.
I used one short and one long link as template to drill the other parts; next came the task to drill the holes for the clamping bolts. The bolts are just interfering the hole for the shafts; the latter have a recess to allow the bolt to be inserted. How to drill the holes with some precision relative to the holes for the shafts? The best way was to make a fixture to position the link during drilling. I took a scrap part and added a stop so I could do the 24 holes without too many difficulties.
I'm adding a picture from the original part for better understanding.

DSC01249.JPG

130 Special tool.JPG

131 Shackle links.JPG

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Roger,

There is so much work that takes place for you to build these pieces that we would never know about without your sharing the process of the construction.

Thanks again, because it makes your amazing work even that much more fascinating.

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That's right, Paulie! So much work for so insignificant parts...That's the problem when the real parts are cast; they are usually difficult to replicate.

 

The next step was to mill the recess to get a "slim link". Again, the "special tool" from the previous picture was modified to have a larger flat section to support the part in work. This tool allowed me the have rather identical large ends on both links types.
With the mill I have, the recess was like a cliff, not inclined and without a curve at the top. This was done manually with a file. In the middle of this operation, I saw that one part is missing! I'm sure I had 12 pieces, the picture done a few days ago is attesting it! Finally, I had to do another piece; I spent less time to do it as I had for the unsuccessful search!

The last operation was to mill the slit allowing the link to clamp the suspension shafts. It took a long time till I found the way to machine the slit; in fact, I used a tool which is done for large parts, but the set-up was good. Of course, my milling tool had a too small diameter to have the slit done in one operation; I had to turn the part 180° to machine the other side.

The promised gas at April 8 is still not here. I will have to search to do parts without silver soldering...

132 Milling.JPG

133 milling the slit.JPG

135 Links ready.JPG

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Roger!!  I had no idea you were doing another build!!  I've been lazy and spending less time on the forum and didn't notice you were doing a new build.  It looks incredible!!

I searched back through some posts but didn't see an overview of the new project.  Might you do a quick recap for those that got caught napping the last few months??

 

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Posted (edited)

Indeed, I had decided to do nothing more, but soon I was "unemployed"!

A better description can be seen at page 101, about in the last quarter, dated November 14: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/145354-construction-of-a-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-112/page/101/

As you were busy with other toys, I understand that you were not so often on the forum!

Edited by Roger Zimmermann (see edit history)
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Roger, I've been wanting to ask. Where do you get all your small hardware, taps, cutters, and such?  Is it from one catalog, several catalogs, or online store?  Thanks

 

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For my 2 first models, I had some metric screws and bolds I bought locally, but they were not to scale and with a cylindrical had with a slot! Then, I had the possibility once to get an interesting lot of screw for the watch industry , with diameters of 0.6, 0.7 and 0.8 mm. Over the years, I could buy more from them, but not exactly the same I had. Screws diameter 0.6mm are nice to attach lenses or inside moldings. Then, I found (I don't remember how) a store in Germany selling screws and nuts for scale models with hex had, more in scale with the reality. I got from a scale model forum the address in the US for small metric screws and nuts in stainless steel and METRIC!

Drilling bits are bought in Switzerland, as well as taps and milling tools. The brass I'm needed is coming manly from a local company, but small diameter rods have to be bought in Germany! It would be nice to have all under the same roof (or address) but it's not the case. It's almost like buying parts for an older car: depending of the brand you must deal with many shops.

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Roger,

Those pieces look great. You know that missing part will now magically appear at some point during a test assembly of those parts, for me the missing item generally appears just as I'm finishing the replacement. 😄

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Well, even if that part should magically appear, I only can keep it in the collection of mishaps if I think it's valuable enough or if I'm missing again a link! I suspect that that unfinished link is in the trash, landing here with metal chips. Not valuable enough to put the trash on the floor and inspect everything!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The long expected gas came early last week, allowing to quit the planning and cut and silver some brass for the front support of the rear springs which is also a support for the body. This simple casting is not so easy to do with flat brass and required lot of silver soldering. It would be presumptuous to say that this is a genuine reproduction of the original part as some difference are evident for me, compared to the many pictures I have.
Both elements are soft soldered to the frame; the rivets will have to wait (anyway I don't have any at the moment) because the 3. crossmember is attached to the frame with the same rivets.
Along with the model's pictures, I'm adding a picture from the real part.
Now, I will do a body support, much easier!

DSC01167.JPG

136 Attachment point.JPG

137 Attachment point.JPG

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Recently, I did the last bracket supporting the body at the rear and soldered both sides to the rails. The rivets will be added later; they are ordered now with other screws nut, and so on.
Then, I did the  support for the running board. If the vertical support was easy to shape, the horizontal part of it required a pattern to shape it. With a scrap material, the shape was done by filing the excess brass away. It took much more time to do the pattern than to shape both parts on it!
The vertical and horizontal elements were assembled with soft soldering; smaller rivets have to be added. If you are looking well at the picture, you will notice that the lower part from the vertical element does not match exactly the shape of the horizontal one. Error from me or bad design? No! The similar parts on a V-8 frame are perfectly aligned but, as the frame from the V-16 is one inch deeper, the factory used the same vertical parts and had to do a different horizontal part to have the same distance between the floor and running board, creating that misalignment.

When I was in Germany to measure the frame, I knew I would miss important dimensions. The position to the running board support is one of them! The second cross-member is located near to the bracket, but I don't have his position either. I will have to wait until transmission and engine are done to locate the cross-member and brackets. By adding the length of the engine pan and transmission, I should get the real position from that cross-member, but something is not right: all engines are supported at the rear by two side supports; they are located by a hole at the frame; fortunately, I measure it. V-16 and V-8 have not the same support for whatever reason (probably the shape). However, all transmissions are the same. If I'm measuring the distance from that hole to the cross-member on the illustration from the V-8 frame in the shop manual , I have a considerable difference compared to my calculated position. I don't know why, I will maybe find it; the shape from the side supports and their location at the end of the engine could be the solution.

138 Brackets.JPG

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