For the BOD and anybody else interested

[LINC400]

I'm starting to think that maybe it would not be a bad thing to let the current Buick club die out. Then a new one can be formed that isn't so set in their ways.

Why is it that folks who dont even belong to the BCA make comments like this ? You have never been to a Board meeting or a membership meeting so how can you comment that we are set i our ways ? Is your goal just to spread s**t around ?

For the most part the conversation has been informative and well behaved, you sir are completely out of line with that statement.

I am replying as myself, an member of the BCA and my opinions do not represent any one else on the BOD or the BCA. (disclaimer).

Bill

No, it is not my goal to spread s**t around. I was trying to help you get new members and save money. Both horrible things.

My above statement is very true. We have one chapter in our club where this is about to happen. My friend is in that chapter and has moved around the country many times. He said this is the worst behaved chapter he has ever seen. Everyone is set in their ways, and argues against everything. Their own opinions and having control are far more important than the good of the chapter. They have driven countless new members away. The national president asked my friend to take it over. He refused saying better to let it die and start over fresh.

I belong to an online forum for sick pets. The original site was very good. Until the moderator became a tyrant. Banning everyone that didn't agree with him. He banned many very knowledgeable people that new members were depending on for help simply because they disagreed with him on something or didn't bow to his will. I was banned because he confused me with someone else. So a group of the banned members started their own group, and invited many of the current and former members to join. We did. It has been nothing but positive, and we never have to worry about big brother looking over our shoulder and randomly banning people.

Hopefully the BCA is nowhere near this. But if you want to argue against anyone that can come up with new ideas with 6 paragraphs of conspiracy theories because it has always been done this way, you are headed in that direction. I see many good ideas presented in this post, a couple not as good. But with one minor exception, I have not seen anyone ask "How can we do this?".

As 38Buick states, and my club's email newsletter show, these ideas do work. But all I see from this post is some people presenting very good ideas. And others shooting them down with made up theories. This will not get new members into the club. But it can cause the ones with ideas to leave.

Edited March 6, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

.. I see many good ideas presented in this post, a couple not as good. But with one minor exception, I have not seen anyone ask "How can we do this?".

... But all I see from this post is some people presenting very good ideas. And others shooting them down with made up theories. ...

I agree with Linc 400 on this point.

I believe every thing that was ever approved by the BOD was done with good reason and intentions. However, it's important to see that nothing is static, not even the earth, as evidenced by the recent major earthquakes.

Therefore everything needs to adapt in a constantly changing environment.

There are a lot of ideas in these forums which get trashed by those seeking to explain why things have been done in the past. But that's the past. A historical perspective is good as long as it does not lead to an environment where other good ideas may never get vented.

It would be helpful if the ideas presented were simply acknowledged, and then taken to the BOD for discussion, regardless if they are good or not so good.

[Guest my3buicks]

+1

[Bill Stoneberg]

Do you think the BOD don't read these forums and don't discuss these matters ?

You see most of the BOD are on the forums and are contributors.

But we cant do it all, we need help. We all have real jobs and some of us are involved with the 2010 Nationals.

Get involved, bring your ideas to the Board, all of our names and email addresses and phone numbers are in the Bugle. If you bring an idea to the BOD it will get a fair hearing, but just don't say we want something back it up with facts, costs and advantages / disadvantages. Make is easy for us to discuss and decide.

History is just that, history. This BOD is different then the one last year and the one coming is different then the one we have now. We all have our opinions but we all want what is best for the BCA.

Run for the BOD if you want to see how the club really runs, for all you people who bash the club, get involved and change it. If some of you have had a bad experience before, try again.

We had 3 people who ran for the BOD this last time. 8500 people in the club, a couple of hundred contributors on this board and two current BOD members ran for reelection and one new candidate.

We need and value contributions members bring. A good example is the Driven class, if not for 1 member pushing it through multiple BOD meetings, we would not have that award.

[Guest my3buicks]

Run for the BOD if you want to see how the club really runs, for all you people who bash the club, get involved and change it. If some of you have had a bad experience before, try again.

Great attitude Bill, there are many that have stepped up to the plate and we found out first hand how the club is run. Many other comments posted by others are out of experience with the club, many of the posters have been members for decades and are very aware of what has been in the past, and what is, or what is percieved to be changes but really more of the same .

[rivgs]

While there have been many good points made on this thread, it is starting to turn into an ego trip for some posters. We have a non BCA member coming up with some ideas but has a thin skin when another poster has a contrary opinion and makes valid points, both DO have good ideas. We also have a BCA member who only seems to post to try to stir things up again and not offer anything useful ( and not on just this thread ). I would adviSe members to think before typing, we are looking for ideas to help-not ways to raise the hackles of other posters. This is my adviCe to the other members of the forum.

[Guest my3buicks]

Kevin, stirring up is a good thing, if more people stirred things up, more would get discussed and done. If no one prodded it would be status quo. BTW, another great post from a board member.

Edited March 8, 2010 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

LINC400, I'm glad you have those great capabilities to scan, copy, and email . . . AT WORK.

The "conspiracy theories" you mention can be very real, so they must be considered regardless of how remote they might be. Just like in my other club, we held road rallyes as a part of our annual show event. We were warned that, in the increasingly litigious society which was evolving, that if a participant was involved in a wreck, the club AND its officers could be held responsible for the damages which resulted. As amazing as that might seem, there were smoke signals on the horizon . . . about 20 years ago. To me, this could have been handled in the disclaimer on the bottom of the entry form, but it was also pointed out that even the entrant's signature on the disclaimer might not be legally binding. As an unincorporated group, sponsored by a car dealership, we suspected that the lawyers would head for the deepest pockets first, but that would not mean our group might not be farther down the list. At the time, we investigated the option of incorporation, but the costs were somewhat prohibitive and lengthy. So, with about $5K in the club's bank account, we officers took extra efforts to guard against any unexpected happenings. Eventually, it wasn't liability issues that made us decide to not do the road rallyes, it was disputes among some who didn't read the driving instructions AND interpret them accurately to finish the specified course. Later, we did incorporate, which should shield the officers from any personal liability in those situations.

Therefore, if the BCA doesn't take measures to protect itself and "The BUGLE" from intellectual property theft issues, nobody will. No conspiracy theory, just reality.

It seems to be a common orientation that current and prior administrations of groups are "set in their ways" or "don't move fast enough to keep up in a changing world". By observation, many of these charges come from less vintage demographics of our society. Might these be the result of a "ME Generation" or the "Have it NOW Generation", with all due respect? Or might it be a point of reference situation and nothing more? Or might it be a result of "simple answers to complex questions", the complexity of which might not be fully considered?

In the end, I feel we need to emphasize "VALUE" of BCA membership, when it's compared to ALL aspects of its peers, to the membership or prospective members. Obviously, some feel the cost-benefit peak was at the $40.00/year level, hence they don't agree/support the current membership dues. Does that mean there was not enough disagreement of those at the last BCA National Meet to prevent either "The BUGLE" being downgraded or the dues to be increased to prevent such? With the "DON'T mess with 'The BUGLE'" orientation being the dominant one, resulting in a dues increase. Still, does that disagreement keep current members from going out and prospecting for new BCA members, although they might not like the current dues amount? What makes this dues increase different was that there was a presented reason for it, unlike in prior times when rumors and outcry against future increases (of even $5.00/year!) made the BCA BOD table the subject FOR YEARS.

Another thing that any retail entity needs to participate in is CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, both in items to improve membership (customer) value via services offered or how they do business. By observation, "continuous improvement" now seems to mean "cut things out" rather than "build the business with better ways to do things while not increasing operating overhead significantly". Paying the bills is important, but so is investing in future business and prosperity thereof. Unfortunately, investing in future prosperity might mean no real visible changes, on the surface, which would be evident to consumers . . . or it might be, for publicly-traded corporate entities, deciding to not pay shareholder dividends until profitability improves or by delaying new product.

In the BCA, "change" can be problematic, just as it can be for GM with Buicks, to find the best mix of "product" to not alienate traditional (loyal and repeat) customers as they try to motivate new customers (younger with observed non-traditional orientations) to become interested in Buicks and to purchase a new one. In one respect, you have to keep the grandparents buying Buicks, but also equip them so the kids and grandkids might also enjoy them in coming years when they might inherit them. Many might already appreciate Buicks (current and past) for the values and qualities they communicate to us, but getting others settled down enough to see what WE see in the product might take some doing . . . and TIME.

"Set in our ways"? Didn't we say that about our parents when they didn't see what we saw as younger people? Yet they seemed to slightly bend, while not really straying from their intended course. Years later, we realized they were, usually, pretty intelligent and then wondered WHEN that happened.

To me, "set in our ways" could be easily said to embody the whole jury trial process, with all due respect. I hope that NONE of us ever get to be that way to that extent--period! Still, progress is made by slowly plodding through the whole affair, however long that might take OR how many times it might take for justice to be correctly served. Not everything in that arena takes place as quick as it did on "Perry Mason", "Dragnet", or "Adam12".

"Change" can be good or bad, depending upon the age demographics of those doing the judging. "Change for change-sake" can be problematic, yet "evolutionary change" can be highly beneficial in the same orientation as "continuous improvement".

Some claim "Familiarity breeds contempt", but for certain advanced age demographics, "Familiarity" means "comfort" and is their personal safety net--when you get there, trust me, you'll understand, by observation.

While there can be many reasons to join the BCA and its chapters, value/cost can be a side issue to potential for fun, association with many like-oriented people (as in Buicks specifically and cars in general), and doing some necessary administrative stuff at meetings. Such BCA membership can be a stepping stone to many future car projects and other club involvements, by observation.

Unfortunately when you get very many people involved, there can be some differences of orientation and how to do things -- national car clubs included. Ideas have been presented and some solutions offered. All of these proposals must be financially viable in the long-term, rather than just what somebody might desire to be done. Still, sometimes you have to "gamble", only to see if it worked several years into the future.

Just as in business, there are times when you have to move slow, but there are also other times when "shooting from the hip" is much more appropriate, BUT such quick decisions ALSO need to result from a broad and mostly-complete knowledge of the subject at hand (think "limiting liability for what could be a poor decision"). To do otherwise, might result in "set in their ways", "resisting change", "the leadership clique", or other comments meant to reflect negatively upon the leadership group, but sometimes things must move slower to finish the race.

Membership value, enjoyment of Buicks, networking with other Buick enthusiasts, and FUN! Let's make it so--period!

Regards,

NTX5467

Edited March 8, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[LINC400]

NTX, my point is that you can scan and make copies or email the current Bugle all over the place right now if you want. Yes I have a copier that can do that at work. You were stating that it would require multiple high tech machines to be able to do this, and each one would cost thousands of dollars. It would take one machine, ten 10 years old, that cost less than $1000 ten years ago. Or I can use my $99 printer at home, it would take a little longer, but it is a cheap piece of crap. These supposed Bugle pirates would certainly have better equipment than that. What security measures do you have in place for the Bugle now? None. What is to prevent me from just handing a copy of it to anyone I want? Nothing. So is the current Bugle being emailed all over the world?

So why is it that an email version protected with a password, is not good enough? You must have Fort Knox-like protection for it? Exactly what is in there that is so valuable that everyone will be stealing copies and emailing it all over the world? Articles on some Buick models, some members stories about their Buicks, parts vendors, classified ads, instructions on repairs, info on upcoming events? Very nice, I'm not insulting the Bugle, but all this information can be had online for free, or from the library for free already. So why would anyone need to be arranging elaborate schemes to hack into and send Bugles all over the place? What is the motivation? I highly doubt that there is a huge black market for Bugles.

You keep coming up with paragraph after paragraph why none of the ideas presented by anyone here will work. Actually, I do not see how some of them even relate, such as clearance sales, overstock, bounced checks, and legal liabilities for road ralleys. What do those have to do with email Bugles or reduced price trial memberships? Some of the ideas presented here might work, some might not. But I do not see any ideas from you in any of your posts on how to increase membership or reduce costs. And again, I really don't see anyone asking "How would we go about this if we were to try it?". If you have better ideas, let's hear them.

[Guest cardinal905]

I believe the answer to keeping members vs gaining new ones is to find a way to make the BCA stand out WAY above other car clubs. This answer may fix the "New member" part as well. I am currently a member of 3 national clubs and two chapters, then there is the one flying club and chapter. I made the economic decision to drop one car club and chapter and one flying club recently---this may be the dillema the BCA faces, (guys that are prolific joiners) and I am sure this phenom has been discussed at board meetings. If you dont own a Buick, the BCA gets kicked out of the bills to pay drawer.

[old-tank]

LINC400

Are you a member of the BCA? Have you ever been to a BOD meeting? Have you ever contacted a member of the BOD with you concerns or suggestions? Are you running for a position on the BOD?

[Guest WEB 38]

If Buick didnt believe change we would still be listening to static on our AM radios no AC no power steering no power brakes no power windows no power seats and still hanging our arms out the window at 10 below zero to make a turn. Bill Belk web 38

[rivgs]

Kevin, stirring up is a good thing, if more people stirred things up, more would get discussed and done. If no one prodded it would be status quo. BTW, another great post from a board member.

Stirring up with something helpful to the subject, yes I would agree that is good. Stirring up with comments that are NO help ( bashing ) is just a waste of space.

[Thriller]

I don't believe anyone ever implied that Bugle piracy is a current concern. I believe it was effectively that what now requires effort (scanning / copying / printing or scanning and saving), which in itself is a deterrent (face, people are lazy), to something that is very easy to lose control of. The majority of BCA members would be diligent about protecting their access, but it would only take a few dishonourable folks to spread it around quite rapidly. At that point, free versus a cost becomes an issue, particularly for the international members who are less likely to belong to a chapter and pay additional costs due to higher mailing costs. Would all the members in Europe remain members if one of them kept up the membership and e-mailed it to everyone else, as an example? Folks are complaining about $50...what about the international costs, particularly as postal rates don't decrease?

Essentially, it is a hypothetical argument. If you have paper, the only low effort things you can do with the Bugle is keep it, toss it, or give it away. Giving it away does not present a significant loss of potential memberships, and may create new memberships. The concern with electronic distribution is that it is easier to send along, and if you are sending an e-mail, it is not much more difficult to send it to 10 people than to one.

In many respects, I would like a soft-copy Bugle. However, I am personally torn.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions. It is NOT a corporate brainstorming session where all ideas are valid and not subject to critique at the time of being stated. The ideas are all valid. Some are better than others. However, if someone presents a possible problem with implementing an idea, or it is an idea that requires further study, then it should not result in any emotional responses. Facts have no emotions.

An electronic Bugle is something that has been talked about for a while and I know the BoD has been looking at some of the issues surrounding it. My vote is to let them continue and report back to us when they have something to report.

As for any new ideas, there are BoD members here and I for one am confident they will take it under advisement and investigate what they are able. Of course, they are volunteers, so perhaps if someone wanted to present an idea it would be better if they also offered to perform some of the research and investigation into the topic that may be required.

[LINC400]

The BCA is not the only car club to address the issues of declining membership or email newsletters. So it is not necessary for someone to belong to the BCA or BOD to come up with ideas or discuss these issues. In fact, if I did not belong to another club, I would not be able to relate the experience of switching from paper to email newsletter because the BCA does not have an email newsletter. Outside opinions can be very helpful. That is why companies hire consultants and focus groups. BOD members asking amongst themselves why people don't want to join because they think it is the best thing and such a great value, is nowhere near as effective as asking people with Buicks or an interest in them why they don't want to join or what might entice them to join. Telling them it is a great value means nothing. People join a club for different reasons. If it does not provide what they are looking for, great newletters, exciting events, help with repairs or finding parts, or just an excuse to get out of the house and away from the wife or whatever is important to them, it is not a great value. Even if it does provide all of the above, and everything they want, it is still not a great value if they cannot stand the people. the only way for an individual to decide if the club is right for them is to join. If people are complaining about the high cost, then a reduced price trial membership seems like a good idea to get people to try the club.

An email newletter is a way to reduce costs. Asking how to protect it from being emailed all over is a legitimate question. Insisting or coming up with theories on how a password protected one is going to be hacked into and emailed all over the world is not. People are indeed lazy. It would take me less time to scan and email to 50 different people a copy of the current Bugle, than it takes me to walk from my desk to the copier and back. So considering people are lazy, I highly doubt that anyone is going to come with elaborate schemes for hacking into an email version to distribute it all over for no profit, or to save a $50 membership fee.

I did not expect any of the ideas to be instantly implemented. I would expect they would be discussed and decided if they were something worth trying. I did not like seeing good ideas shot down because of wild theories or because people simply don't want anything changed. That is not going to help the club.

Edited March 9, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[old-tank]

The BCA is not the only car club to address the issues of declining membership or email newsletters. So it is not necessary for someone to belong to the BCA or BOD to come up with ideas or discuss these issues. In fact, if I did not belong to another club, I would not be able to relate the experience of switching from paper to email newsletter because the BCA does not have an email newsletter. Outside opinions can be very helpful. That is why companies hire consultants and focus groups. BOD members asking amongst themselves why people don't want to join because they think it is the best thing and such a great value, is nowhere near as effective as asking people with Buicks or an interest in them why they don't want to join or what might entice them to join. Telling them it is a great value means nothing. People join a club for different reasons. If it does not provide what they are looking for, great newletters, exciting events, help with repairs or finding parts, or just an excuse to get out of the house and away from the wife or whatever is important to them, it is not a great value. Even if it does provide all of the above, and everything they want, it is still not a great value if they cannot stand the people. the only way for an individual to decide if the club is right for them is to join. If people are complaining about the high cost, then a reduced price trial membership seems like a good idea to get people to try the club.

An email newletter is a way to reduce costs. Asking how to protect it from being emailed all over is a legitimate question. Insisting or coming up with theories on how a password protected one is going to be hacked into and emailed all over the world is not. People are indeed lazy. It would take me less time to scan and email to 50 different people a copy of the current Bugle, than it takes me to walk from my desk to the copier and back. So considering people are lazy, I highly doubt that anyone is going to come with elaborate schemes for hacking into an email version to distribute it all over for no profit, or to save a $50 membership fee.

I did not expect any of the ideas to be instantly implemented. I would expect they would be discussed and decided if they were something worth trying. I did not like seeing good ideas shot down because of wild theories or because people simply don't want anything changed. That is not going to help the club.

So your not a member of the BCA, have never been to a BOD meeting....and probably have never even seen a Bugle. And after the BOD discuses implements your ideas of a trial electronic membership you will graciously join? Bwaahahaha

[LINC400]

So your not a member of the BCA, have never been to a BOD meeting....and probably have never even seen a Bugle. And after the BOD discuses implements your ideas of a trial electronic membership you will graciously join? Bwaahahaha

And your ideas are??? And an attitude like this is supposed to have people rushing to join???

[old-tank]

And your ideas are??? And an attitude like this is supposed to have people rushing to join???

You answered my questions---I'll let others form their opinions on your credibility. My ideas have been discussed with the board members, the elected volunteers of our club.

[LINC400]

You answered my questions---I'll let others form their opinions on your credibility. My ideas have been discussed with the board members, the elected volunteers of our club.

When I first joined my current club, one of the first events was the Grand Invitational hosted by my region. I had nothing to do with that. But the old members argued massively about it and were burned out by the time it was over. No one wanted to do anything, and no one got along.

Our newsletter became a half a page Xerox copy mailed out at erratic intervals with a few sentences describing the one event that occured, a list of future events that we used to do every year with begging for someone to take them over, and a final plea for someone to take over the newsletter.

The rare events that did occur resulted in everyone commenting on how great the club used to be.

I was new but planned and hosted a few events, and wrote some columns for the newsletter. We got other new members, and they started planning and doing things, and took over the newsletter. We got more members, and they got help from non-club members to set up the email newsletter, and plan even more elaborate events.

We now have about a 20 page email newsletter in full color, far more professional than it ever looked. We have one event every month, and frequently 2 or 3 in summer months. Our membership is among the highest it has ever been. And we have to find ways to spend money, because we are a non-profit organization, and can't be making profits.

So obviously anyone that has not been on the BCA BOD for the last 30 years cannot possibly have any ideas or experience that might help. Better to just insult them and then wonder why people are not joining.

Edited March 10, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

The BCA is not the only car club to address the issues of declining membership or email newsletters.

That to me is the underlying issue in many matters where money needs raised or adjusted. i.e. government budgets for instance, companies laying people off and car club dues and expectations.

We are in the midst of a long decline period for these clubs, in my opinion. However, my proof is anecdotal. Most car clubs say they are in decline, for instance - members wise.

This is what is causing the issues. The BOD and concerned members wring their hands over how to increase membership but I don't think that is the issue. The issue is how to adapt the club to the decreasing membership numbers. Again, my opinion.

Why worry about something you can't do much about? How ironic, that here we are in the middle of the information age when communication is so much easier - and yet our numbers are declining.

When I was interested in 1992, a club application in the glove box of the 56 Special I purchased got me started. No internet, no websites out there. That tells me that increases "back in the day" came from word of mouth, paper publications like Hemmings and perhaps larger organizations like AACA events.

You woud think, with the BCA website, simply Google Buick Club and we would pop up in fronty of anyone interested - modified, original, interested in local events - yet the numbers don't bear that out.

As for those largely "muscle car" groups - like the OCA (Olds Club of America) which has been taken over by 442 groupies and seperatist Pontiac muscle groups and so on - those guys are at least half the salt and pepper crowd because of prices. Go try and buy a nicely done muscle car - $25,000 and up - on middle age wages and watch the wife whack you upside the head!

So it may be a few years before the tide rolls in and raises all boats - but it may never be the same. The culture created by the age group from 52ish onto 90 years old is big in numbers and motivation. These cars represent their lusts and passion for so many years. The following generations do not share that zeal to the same extent.

[LINC400]

When I was interested in 1992, a club application in the glove box of the 56 Special I purchased got me started. No internet, no websites out there. That tells me that increases "back in the day" came from word of mouth, paper publications like Hemmings and perhaps larger organizations like AACA events.

You woud think, with the BCA website, simply Google Buick Club and we would pop up in fronty of anyone interested - modified, original, interested in local events - yet the numbers don't bear that out.

The culture created by the age group from 52ish onto 90 years old is big in numbers and motivation. These cars represent their lusts and passion for so many years. The following generations do not share that zeal to the same extent.

I think that might be part of the problem. Years ago if you had a Hudson, Studebaker, Packard, Graham, etc. there was no internet or websites. If you wanted info on parts, repairs, general info on your car, the club was your best source of help and info.

Now I can find all the info I want on my car on the internet. I can get parts from Ebay or any number of places that have websites or an online ad. There are websites that list everything from production statistics and value guides to general info. And any number of forums that where people can tell me how to repair, get parts, or provide more info all for free. So why pay to join a club?

That is why it is important to get people to show up for events. So they can interact with others, show their car off, and have a good time. Things you can't do with internet sites or a newsletter.

I also agree that younger generations do not share the interest in cars to the same degree. Cars are simply a way to get to the mall or a party, and a place to plug in your cell phone and I-pod to them.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Do you think the BOD don't read these forums and don't discuss these matters ?

You see most of the BOD are on the forums and are contributors.

Get involved, bring your ideas to the Board, all of our names and email addresses and phone numbers are in the Bugle. If you bring an idea to the BOD it will get a fair hearing, but just don't say we want something back it up with facts, costs and advantages / disadvantages. Make is easy for us to discuss and decide.

History is just that, history. This BOD is different then the one last year and the one coming is different then the one we have now. We all have our opinions but we all want what is best for the BCA.

Run for the BOD if you want to see how the club really runs, for all you people who bash the club, get involved and change it. If some of you have had a bad experience before, try again.

We had 3 people who ran for the BOD this last time. 8500 people in the club, a couple of hundred contributors on this board and two current BOD members ran for reelection and one new candidate.

We need and value contributions members bring. A good example is the Driven class, if not for 1 member pushing it through multiple BOD meetings, we would not have that award.

Okay Bill on your first point about the BOD and this forum. Why do you think I posted this here. I wanted response from both the BOD and the general membership. Im just like the rest of you , if I have an idea of course I think its a good one or I wouldnt put it out there. Is it a GOOD idea ? Thats why Im looking for input from the people who make the decisions and the people it will affect (the rest of us and any and all future members). I have a job , a home, a son whos working his way towards eagle scout 3 old cars and 2 cars and a pickup truck that all cut into the time I have to spend on the phone with various members of the BOD. And sometimes frankly Im tired and dont particularly feel like spending time on the phone. Here I can present my idea and walk away. Checking back when I HAVE THE TIME. This is what works for me .

You the BOD are the ones who are always asking for input from the membership. Well here it is. Input .From a member who by the way despite being dead set against the dues increase just paid for another years membership in the BCA. I care about what happens to this club. Thats why I voice my opinions. I dont particularly care what people think of me. There are at least a few persons on this board who can testify as to what my personality can become like when I feel Im provoked. Im not trying to stir the pot , I feel Im doing what the BOD has requested, which is come up with ideas to help save this club.

You also request that the idea be more or less fleshed out before its presented. Why ? Why should I go through the effort of all the nuts and bolts details if Im not even sure the idea has any merit or if anyone will even accept it as a valid premise. Im a truck driver by trade not a financial anylast. How to make it work and implement it is as they say "Not my department".

Run for the BOD. Not me bubba. On top of the aforementioned rsponsibilities there is also the following problems.

#1 You HAVE TO ATTEND BOD meetings , no matter where they are. I have exactly 8 vacation days a year. Do you really think I want to spend the majority of them sitting in conference rooms ? Let me answer that for you. Hell no I dont.

#2 I dont like to fly . Period end of discussion. BOD meeting anywhere west of Wisconsin. aint gettin done and getting back in 8 days. So there goes my 1 BOD meeting of the year cause I dont have the time off to do another one ...... unless of course you want to hold ALL BOD meetings in Pittsburgh, then maybe I can do it. And if you hold them in the evenings in Pittsburgh then I wont have to burn a majority of my vacation time attending them. If the BOD is willing to do this ...... Ill run tomorrow

Sorry if my idea or my presentation of it wasnt up to your standards but its the best Ive got.

Dan

[HurstGN]

I told you kids to be quiet! Now look what you did, you woke up the grumpy old man next door with the Buick. (That would be Walter Matthau...I'm Jack Lemmon) I'm just waiting for him to post "Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." :D:D Oh, I'll never hear the end of the sarcasm of this post.

Max Goldman: Well he started it!

Jacob: Oh, Gustafson started every fight since 1940.

Max Goldman: 1938!

:p:D:p

[Guest COMPACTBC]

Keith, you sound a little bitter at the BOD. As you can see from the responses, the Board members do monitor this site. And they have made some educated responses. Keep smiling life is too short to be so negative:)

[Guest my3buicks]

I give negative, and I give postive, all depends on the situation and how things have been handled present or past. Bitter? Maybe!

[NTX5467]

This discussion is "something else"!

Observation . . . when someone new might come into a discussion on a subject . . . late . . . and then NOT try to learn (key word!) what the discussion is about of how it has come to be . . . such circular situations (as this seems to have become) have a greater probability of happening -- especially when certain agendas are being "highly promoted as the answer when there might be several other orientations to consider.

Contrary to what some might suspect, The BCA does not exist in a vacuum. It might appear as such sometimes, but that is not reality. Certainly, some things might not change as soon as some might advocate, but progress is being and has been made from past eras as we progress toward the future.

In the world of car club groups, there can be "benchmarks" which can be noted and investigated--whatever they might be. Now, "benchmarks" seem to be a "point of reference" situation, too, so even they might be open to discussion.

The areas which many seem to desire to benchmark can include:

Yearly national dues amount

Club publication, in any format

National Meet(s)

Local groups for national club members to join, if desired

Availability of national Board of Directors to individual members

Experiences with the National Office contacts

I also know that many BCA members are also members of other vehicle clubs, locally and nationally, as are many of the BOD members, so "no vacuum" here or on the BOD with respect to the BCA's existence--period. The issue might be that, as with health insurance, you might not know how good it is until you need it (or use it).

Many times, people use the word "grumpy" in a negative connotation, but you FIRST have to consider how an individual might be viewed as "grumpy". A few years ago, on the front page of webtv.net/msntv.net, there was an article about "grumpy" (you remember seeing that, Linc400??).

Grumpy happens, according to that article, when people have issues to solve and they are having difficulty getting them solved in a desired manner. It is this dissatisfaction in not really finding what is being sought that makes people "grumpy", but when a suitable solution to the problem is found, grumpy ceases to happen. But if there starts to be a continuing dissatisfaction with things, which can happen as one might become nearer to "end of life", knowing that much has not been accomplished that might have been (think, an intensified version of "mis-spent youth") can lead to what is called "grumpy" and also to age-related depression. So, "grumpy" is really a good thing to happen as it shows "concern", but can also become somewhat negative if allowed to progress in later life.

As mentioned a few times already, this is NOT the first time "Getting the BCA into a growth mode" has been discussed. Nor is it the first time that various consumer medias for "The BUGLE" or "The Roster" have been discussed (seems like this is the third time the media delivery subject has been discussed?). Many of the current posters also posted comments in those earlier discussions, too, offering: concerns, options, and desires of what they individually would like to see. Just because things might still be as they were back then (with respect to delivery media for the club publications) does NOT mean that each of the prior suggestions were ignored or forgotten about--period! Just because the BCA might not see completely fit to follow what other vehicle club groups might be doing does NOT mean that what is being done is sub-optimal as the BCA is NOT that other club--period! Each group's leadership must find that "happy medium" of what works for the most members rather than special interest groups, which can be a difficult task in some cases.

Some might like to sit at the computer and surf for parts and information and such, as many other might, but sitting there and surfing or reading a newsletter (however "brightly" ornamented, with all due respect) will NOT give you the same experience as really getting out to events and meeting real people (at least, many of them are "real") and finding what real people have to say about their interactions with certain parts vendors OR discovering where a "new stash" of old vehicles might have been discovered. Sure, NONE of us might desire to hang out with ALL of the other demographics of some other clubs, but it's the "networking" that is important. THEN you might discover that those who might have been viewed as "grumpy" are really nice people who might really help in their areas of expertise or knowledge . . . locally. These are things you can't do on the Internet--period!

Each time this sort of discussion has come up, a few new voices appear, which can be good and might better temper the discussion (each time) as "How To Save Car Club Membership" is a slowly evolving story.

One thing is for sure, though . . . the majority of the membership needs to have a reasonable degree of "customer satisfaction" with the local and national group. Some times, "too many rules" can get in the way of things being fun (which should be in a prominent spot in any car group's basic mission statement), but some times, "too many rules" are needed for the proper functioning of the group--which is a variable situation due to different groups' membership demographics.

Many might perceive that waiting for something to appear on eBay or on a parts vendor's website is the only way to do things. It does work for many, but that "old fashioned way" also still works, too. Get the car club friends and take off on a scouting tour, with some things in mind that you are looking for, of the salvage yards that are dwindling in numbers every day. Yep, even a road trip to some more distant venue might be good, too! Sure, you can buy a book of what yards allegedly have what, but you might also discover one more nearby that has what you're desiring. Can't forget the fun factor in these excursions--period! OR the feeling of finding "the find" and then getting it refurbished YOURSELF, which can't equate to the same feeling of pride as getting one delivered on UPS (although flashing the plastic on the phone or online definitely has its place).

There are some things which you just can't force to happen--period. The BCA will most probably not enjoy a massive membership spike if the national membership dues are decreased by, say, $5.00/year. No membership spike if "The BUGLE" is available only via electronic media (in whatever form), either. No membership sustained membership spike if the BCA National Dues are decreased from cost savings due to electronic media delivery of "The BUGLE", either. Sure, each of these ideas/orientations might have merit, but will they really motivate people (Buick enthusiasts or not) to suddenly join and maintain their reduced-rate membership for 5 years into the future?

"Free trial memberships" generally will not result in very many long-term members, either. How do I know that? For the past several years, our North Texas Chapter, at the desire of our Membership Director, offered a free 6-month membership to all new BCA members in our area. Sure, we got a few members for a year or so, but on a percentage scale, any viable business manager would have determined "It's not worth it". Yes, we got a few members we might not have gotten otherwise, in the chapter, but we very seldom saw these members at meetings (not to say they were not somewhat deeply engaged in the Buick hobby). Were they a few members we might not have had, otherwise? Yes. The costs were somewhat nominal to the chapter, as a marketing venture, but any normal business would have determined the investment was not one for which there was a reasonable return.

Our Membership Director was the sole administrator of that program, as it was "his baby", so to speak. I fully understand the value of marketing ventures (which the program was), but I also had to explain how the program might be beneficial to some members who did not like that some were getting "free memberships" when they had to pay full price. In other words, I had to "sell it to them" as a "marketing venture that didn't cost very much to do."

I suspect that many other chapters might have had similar results, if they did some of these same things (free trial memberships at the chapter level), some more, some less.

So . . . knowing that many of the words in this discussion have happened before, knowing that "marketing via price" is not always the path to increased membership or future prosperity (the consuming public is highly fickle, it seems), knowing that trying to force change upon certain "satisfied customers" (regardless of how highly touted or modern it might be) and keep them as "satisfied customers" in the future (re: discussion of doing The Roster on DVD rather than print), knowing that certain demographics of consumers have different orientations than others might, and knowing that customer retention as well as customer growth are highly important to any business entity, there will be some things which some observers might not like in what they see, using their own particular orientations as "the benchmark" of their perception of "right", "wrong", or "mediocre".

So, knowing that nothing is going to magically put the BCA on a membership growth spiral, no matter what, this discussion can go into the future with no real progress about what might need to be done. Nor will such a membership growth mode happen immediately (or similar), no matter what.

The only, real "best way" to increase BCA membership is via the local chapters. Having mentions (of the national organization) in many major vehicle hobby publications does not hurt, either, but the real heart of the national group is the local chapter. Certainly there are some national members who don't have time for local activities, but knowing they are there, if the desire might arise, can provide "a face" and reinforcement for the national group at the local level. It's the local chapter that can put real value in the national BCA membership, in addition to the excellent "The BUGLE" we currently have. (Whoops! There's that word again, "value")

ONE thing that we and the BOD will need to be completely cognizant of . . . is that the sampling of BCA members who frequent this forum and post here (and others who might be a member of other AACA Forums that also have posting access here) might be statistically significant in a numbers-sense of things (in projecting comments to be valid for the total number of BCA members), but there are many other BCA members who might not know this forum exists or might not desire to post their thoughts here . . . or have a decent Internet connection to do it anyway . . . or have consistent Internet access at their workplace. Certainly, as good connections to the Internet proliferate in the future (via wire or wireless forms) more might become more involved here . . . IF and only IF they might desire to or "see the value" in doing such. These "unconnected" BCA members have the same rights as "connected" BCA members do and they cannot be forgotten in ANY potential BCA policy or orientation changes. For them, the print version of "The BUGLE" is their lifeline to the BCA.

In other words, just because many who post in this forum might like things "one way", that "one way" might not be acceptable to some who might not post here. EVERYBODY must be considered equally--period.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!

NTX5467

Edited March 19, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

NTX5467, I would like to shake your hand someday! Well said.

Ben