Trailer Questions Answered here.

[H&Htrailerguy]

If it will help, i am always available to answer trailer questions, either via this thread, email at craig@hhtrailer.com or phone me direct at 928 753 1100. As a manufacturer and an old car and motorcycle nut, i can usually relate to what you are thinking and help you come up with a solution to your towing questions.

I hope that no one takes this as spam. i would not be here, had i not seen the people were asking about trailering, as well as asking about the trailers we build. no spamming on my end. Just opening the thread and leaving it at that.

thanks

Craig Hull

www.hhtrailer.com

[Mark Shaw]

Craig,

Ok here are some questions for you....

1. When towing one of your enclosed trailers, how much does the load increase on the tow vehicle as speed increases?

2. Many trailer manufacturers make blunt nose, round nose, and vee nosed trailers to reduce wind risistance. Do you have any data on how much these different designs help or not help with fuel economy?

3. How much fuel economy difference is there between towing an empty open or enclosed trailer?

[Tom Laferriere]

Great Questions

[R W Burgess]

There will be a trailer seminar in Philly this year at 10:00am on Saturday morning! See schedule below for seminar participants!

Click Here!

Wayne

[Mark Shaw]

Wayne,

Your link did not work, and since I am on the west coast, I won't make it to the seminar. Perhaps you could post some seminar notes here?

I also wonder what happened to Craig. I posted a few questions a week ago, and see no answer yet...

[R W Burgess]

Mark, it works now. I had to rouse Pat Buckley out of bed to get this done!

I'm teasing Pat! Actually Pat's toiling over the Philly Extravaganza as we speak to make it an enjoyable event for everyone.

Wayne

[Mark Shaw]

Wayne,

I forwarded your seminar schedule to a couple of BCA board members to give them some food-for-thought....

Thanks,

[R W Burgess]

Mark, if things work out on that Saturday, I'll attend that seminar and take notes.

Wayne

[Marty Roth]

Wayne,

I cannot be in Philly, but would like to know the results of flat vs. "V" front, and tapered roofline like the all-aluminum high-top unit I towed to Founders Tour, built higher so that the fenderwells were only 8" inside (for low 50s - 60s cars, and 1' higher roof for brass cars, riding on torsion suspension and a pair of 6000 lb axles. Thanks,

Marty

[H&Htrailerguy]

Actually, as speed increases, you tongue load should stay static. Wind may have some effect on how the load 'feels' while towing but the weight itself should not vary at all.

H&H has both a round nose model and a V-nose model. From our testing, the V-Nose trailer does tow easier and can add as much at 1MPG to the average tow vehicles mileage while towing.

This is an excellent Question! The three main issues when towing for the best possible return on fuel spent are, weight, drag and aerodynamics in general.

As a rule of thumb, an enclosed trailer, carrying the same cargo weight as on an open deck trailer will weigh 10% more, which does have to have some sort of effect on mileage, as the more weight you carry, the more energy or fuel it takes to move it.

But, a smoothness of an enclosed trailer offsets some drage properties and allows for a 'smoother' hole being punched in the wind as you tow, which compared to open trailers can be a plus.

And Aerodynamics plays the final role. I don't think anyone here could argue that an H&H 20' round top V-Nose trailer would not have a better Aerodynamic 'faceprint' in the wind than a flatbed trailer towing an automobile.

From my experience, though, using a Duramax dually to tow identical loads from the Midwest to California and back on both open and enclosed H&H trailers. The open deck trailer usually got slightly better mileage, but that cost savings was usually offset by having to re-clean the vehicle on the deck of an open trailer once I arrived.

Do you want to save the most fuel while hauling cars, regardless of any other expense? Buy an H&H EXA aluminum speedloader. It will weigh the least, punch a reasonably clean hole in the wind (especially when fitted with our car guard fairing) and tow the smoothest, even hauling full sized autos behind 1/2 ton trucks.

Do you want your ride to arrive as clean as when you loaded it? Do you want the ultimate security while on the road from theft of flying debris damage? Get an H&H CL series enclosed car trailer.

But, if you want to try to get the most of both, call us and we will quote you our new all aluminum framed CL series enclosed trailer.

Hope this helps

Craig Hull

[H&Htrailerguy]

Marty,

From my experience, you can assume that every foot of height you add will 'feel' like an extra 500lbs of cargo being towed. H&H always looked at wind slam and drag factors when designing trailers, that is why even our std cargos have a foot deep rounded front. Why anyone out there in the trailer business would build a 'barn door' flat front on a trailer is a mystery to us as it only takes about $5 worth of materials more and 10 extra minutes to turn a totally flat front cargo trailer into a model with a rounded nose.

Our 30" V-Nose option cuts drag a little more, but it will not double your mileage or anything. the Greatest single innovation we have come up with to increase mileage for cargo trailers has to be the newest engineering design that allowed us to create a fully smooth sided cargo trailer with a 100% aluminum tube and extrusion frame. It weighs almost half the weight of a steel framed model but hauls the same total gross load, which increases the carryable payload of that trailer by almost a third.

Call me direct at 928 753 1100 to discuss the 300 plus different ways i can help you solve your car towing problems. Our bag of towing tricks is getting so deep that i may need a ladder to climb in and get them soon.

Thanks

Craig

[Mark Shaw]

Thanks Craig, but I am not really sure you actually answered my questions. I don't disagree with anything you posted, but would like to know if there have been any studies or tests done on this. Has anyone actually put a load measuring device on the hitch ball to measure the pulling forces at different speeds and with different trailer designs?

I have towed my share of open and enclosed trailers and can relate to "the feel" of different trailers. I sold my blunt nosed enclosed trailer and bought a Vee front trailer for my open cars. I still use my open trailer to haul my enclosed cars. I would like to know how much difference there is between the two.

Should I send these questions to Mythbusters.....?

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Craig- What's your take on the "cushioned" ball mount? Some car haulers I've towed seem to want to "rythmically jerk" the truck (F-250) especially when towed empty. One trailer supply suggested a ball mount with a tighter clearance on the pin, however, I feel this would only increase the effect. Thanks, Joe

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Mark Shaw-Looks like you scared Craig off the forum--no reply to my posts or PM's Joe

[Guest elmo39]

If your trailor bounces jerks when empty it's built/balanced properly . please don't ask me how to over come this , i don't know /cant remember ,it was a long time ago. but i have been towing trailers , big and small since i got my drivers liscence in the 1950's.if your trailor sways the faster you go , adjust your load either forward or backward, usualy forward to put more load on your car. if it bounjces or is jerky that usaly means the load is to far back , it's not rocket science .I still have the trailer i built in 1967 it tows beautifully empty or full , i have even had it behind my car in excess of 80mph, please don't jump up and down , it wasn't behind one of my old cars , but it towed good . I can't remember the formulae , but i was told way back that the tow bar should be a certain length , relative to the wheel base of the trailer.It must have been right because as i said i still have the same trailer and it still tows good .

[Guest elmo39]

oops it pays to proof read your posts , it should have had not inserted just before built/balanced

[Guest Merchant Xpress]

I seem to remember that airstream did some scientific studies on towing and that is how they came up with their design. The better mileage will be found with a trailer with an aerodynamic back end. The front resistance will be less of a factor because the tow vehicle will deflect the resistance. It is the vacuum created by the back of the trailer that creates the drag, so create a trailer that has less turbulence at the back and the trailer will tow better and with less effect on your mileage. Keep your weight on the trailer balanced 60/40 with 60% of the weight forward of the axles and 40% behind. Too much weight on the tongue and the front wheels of the tow vehicle will lift and affect steering. If too much weight behind the back axle of the trailer and the back axle of the tow vehicle gets light and you will have your vehicle fishtailing down the road. I don't sell trailers but I do hook them to vehicles every day in our equipment rental yard and I have towed horse and car trailers thousands of miles. It is my personal belief that no one should haul a car on a trailer with a half ton truck. Too much weight for the tow vehicle is just asking for an accident.

Harry

[Steve Braverman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Merchant Xpress</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is my personal belief that no one should haul a car on a trailer with a half ton truck. Too much weight for the tow vehicle is just asking for an accident.

Harry </div></div>

Harry,

Twenty years ago I would agree with you. I had a 1988 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup that could barely carry my lunch in the bed without sagging. I used to tow with a 1973 3/4 ton Suburban, and it always handled well. (The 454 would sometimes get a low as 3mpg!) Today's 1/2 ton truck are usually rated to tow up to, and sometimes more than, 9,000#.

My father and I have two enclosed trailers, a 24' C&C and a 7x16' Haulmark. The C&C is very heavy, and I currently have nothing that will tow it. The Haulmark is very light, and we carry early cars in it. We tow it with a mini-van. My father's 2004 Mercury mini-van tows it with his brass-era cars that weigh under 2,000# with no problems. We recently brought home a 1925 touring that weighs 2600# behind my 2001 V8 Dakota. The Dakota didn't even feel the trailer except on steep hills, and it handled great.

When the Dakota is ready for replacement, I will get a 2009 or later 1/2 ton. They all advertise at least 20 mpg empty, and can tow over 9000#. My heaviest car weighs 4250#, combined with the trailer that's a bit under 8000#. A properly equipped and loaded trailer should pose no issues.

[Guest Merchant Xpress]

Steve, I hear those arguments every day and I still see guys with Dakotas and Explorers and half ton trucks upside down and jack knifed all the time because though they can tow the weight they can't stop it. The weight of the trucks and the brakes are not up to the job just about three weeks ago I watched a half ton truck pulling a three axles toy hauler get upside down, last week a half ton truck went off the road right next to our shop, lost it's trailer and took out a suburban sitting at the Play Toys lot. I wouldn't even care if people were just hurting themselves by towing with too small of vehicles, but they are out there endangering my life because they are trying to do things on the cheap. You guys buy into the sales pitch but until you lose your load or kill someone you won't tow safely. If someone tows with too small a vehicle it's the same as pointing a loaded gun and someone and saying don't worry, the salesman says the safety is on. Half ton trucks are cheaper because everything on them is lighter and there is less of it. Smaller brakes, lighter frame, less substance to the whole package. I don't expect to change your mind, everyone can justify why they do things. Last year I saw a guy with a little toyota truck pulling another toyota truck on a car dolly with another toyota truck chained to the one on the dolly. They made it where they were going without killing anyone so it must be okay to do?

Harry

[oldsalt]

I have towed my share of vehicles on my flatbed trailer with my 1990 F150 and even though they all got home safely I was a nervous wreck every time. I have been told by several Ford dealers that my truck can pull very heavy loads safely. I also have a 23 foot trailer weighing in at 4800-5200 pounds fully loaded that I pull and I cringe every time I take it out. I have a anti sway bar and electric brake controller and electric brakes on both my trailers and I still am a wreck. Looking for a 3/4 ton but have not found one in my price range.

[Marty Roth]

My tow vehicle is a 2002 Chevy Suburban 2500 (3/4 Ton) with the 8.1L engine. It is built far heavier than the 1/2 ton 1500 series (we still keep our '86 20 series 3/4 ton with the 454 engine and 400 Hydramatic as backup for moving 2 trailers).

The Chevy is set up for SERIOUS trailering, incorporating heavier chasis, braking, and steering components. Our new Forest River all-aluminum enclosed hauler has been custom built, including a slope and wedge front, two 6,000 lb torsion axles, serious brakes, extra foot of interior height for the early cars, crank-open roof vents with Maxx-Air covers, side wall vents for extraction of potential fumes.

We still pull the older enclosed and open steel-frame trailers as well, but not as often depending on the requirements of the trip and content.

I typically trailer many, many thousands of miles each year to national tours and to swap meets, and feel comfortable handling my rig at highway speeds. I'm not a "Nervous-Nellie". I know how important it is to respect my own limitations (even though I am the world's best driver - Ha Ha - aren't we all ??). Regular rest stops to get out and walk around the rig. Regular meals and respect the weather conditions. A relaxed and comfortable driving environment without a lot of distractions is important. Safe equipment, load-leveling hitch, proper loading, proper lighting, good tires and brakes -- all in excess of the anticipated requirement -- these all contribute to a lack of surprises, and the best surprise is not having one.

I've been pulling trailers and old cars for nearly 50 years, and what scares me most is the other guy or gal who drives like hell, knowing that they cannot possibly react to an emergency situation -- if the car in front of them skids or has a blow-out -- if somebody else makes a mistake, they not only might hurt themselves, but more likely will take an innocent victim along too.

[Guest doug396]

I use a 2006 Chevrolet 3500 Dually so can not answer your pulling question but have owned over 20 trailers from v nose ---wedge nose --round nose and can not tell much difference pulling with the dual wheel truck however my last trailer sit higher than most and got 1 to 2 mpg fuel milage than the lower sitting trailers-I sold a V nose not a wedge nose to a man that used a Tahoe and when the wind was hiting him from a angle the v pushed him all over the road where his round nose did not---My current trailer is a 36' Gooseneck and I have to learn all over how to back it up

[Guest Bill Hummel]

I have a 1/2-Ton 2008 Suburban. How much tongue weight can I put on the hitch?

I have an open trailer with a racing box in front.

I have been driving my Cord up onto the trailer and watching for the Suburban to just start dipping from the weight. Is there a better way to do this?

I try to keep the Suburban level with just a slight dip as I drive forward onto the trailer.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Bill.

The recommended tonque weight is 10-13% on the hitch.

I bought a "Sherline Products Tongue Scale" ($110 range). My TR-6 & Southwestern 16' trailer have a GVW of 5240#. Have a tool box in the trailer's nose. NOTE: I also had my luggage and AACA Literature boxes in the bed of the truck before leaving for a National Meet (The items in the tow vehicle come into play big time if you want assurance the whole rig is set up correctly.)

--Moved car onto trailer. Weighed the tongue and it came out to 855#. Moved the car back at intervals until the tonque weight registered at 550#. Marked off the location of the car and installed wheel chocks for the front wheels. Now every time I load the car I know it is the correct tonque weight.

--Tonque Scales are a must for people who tow an assortment of vehicles as naturally the tonque weight varies with vehicle weights.

Regards,

Peter J.

[charlier]

Peter, you make an excellent point about having a tongue scale when one tows vehicles.

I purchased "Sherline Products Tongue Scale" for around $100.

I too found that the way I loaded my trailer had been putting more weight (200-250+ lbs more) on the tongue than was necessary.

Moving my car to the rear of the trailer along with a few other items balanced my trailer and reduced the tongue weight.

If I were a betting man, I would wager that there is HIGH percentage of people who tow who have WAY TOO MUCH tongue weight.

Chances are, these people do not even know it. That includes those with Heavy Duty Trucks (with/without dually axles).

That probably explains why I see even some HD Trucks pulling trailers that are bobbing up and down on the highway.

Once the Trailering Seminar gets started at AACA Meets, this topic can be added if it is not part of it already.

Might also consider asking AACA Members that have these scales to bring them to the meet and have a "trailer weigh in & load leveling" session. I guarentee that will be a VERY Educational and Eye-Opening experience.