Use 2 cycle gas/oil mixture in old car engine?

[bill pritchett]

I have a gallon of gas and two cycle oil mixed together from my snowblower. Can I use this in my antique car engine which was made prior to catalytic converters? I would use it with a full tank of gas.

Thanks,

[Guest ZondaC12]

Dont mean to hijack the thread but a couple summers ago I had some old spent motor oil, I was bored and ya know gas was a bit cheaper, instead of bringing it 10 miles away to a gas station to get it recycled, I mixed it with gasoline (probably like a 3:1 ratio too!!!! haha) and ran it in my go-kart, which has a 1978-ish toro snowblower 5 hp tecumseh on it. WOW did that thing smell and puff black smoke like there was no tomorrow. Still revved up good and moved around good and fast, but about 3 tanks of that and one day I couldn't get her started. Just nothing, choke, no choke NOTHING would happen. Took a whole bunch of starting fluid to even get some coughing and a couple tanks of fresh gas before she started and ran good consistently Yeah there was a LITTLE too much oil in that. Fun as hell though while it took it, with all the smoke!

[Peter Gariepy]

Bill,

Why would you even want to?

Peter

[nearchoclatetown]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bill pritchett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a gallon of gas and two cycle oil mixed together from my snowblower. Can I use this in my antique car engine which was made prior to catalytic converters? I would use it with a full tank of gas.

Thanks, </div></div>At a mixture of probably 30 to 1 or 50 to 1 that old car won't mind a bit. It's better to use up that gas then save it, because it won't be any good by next winter.

[R W Burgess]

Now Peter, old Bill is tight with a dollar like us southern fellows. We never throw anything away, you know. I've even burned gasoline in my diesels during the winter, much cheaper than that high dollar "freeze proof" brand.

If you thin it down enough, Bill, those old engines will burn pretty much anything.

Hey, do you ever wonder what they're actually putting in our gasoline nowadays, anyway??

Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> At a mixture of probably 30 to 1 or 50 to 1 that old car won't mind a bit.</div></div>

Especially if it's diluted by another 15-12 gallons of fresh gasoline in the tank. There probably won't be enough 2-cycle oil (if so diluted) to even detect an odor in the exhaust.

I know, because I did exactly this a few times 10 years ago when I had a 2-cycle Lawn-Boy mower and had extra gas left over in the fall.

[Rusty_OToole]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bill pritchett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a gallon of gas and two cycle oil mixed together from my snowblower. Can I use this in my antique car engine which was made prior to catalytic converters? I would use it with a full tank of gas.

Thanks, </div></div>

Go ahead, it won't hurt a thing. In fact it may do some good as the 2 stroke oil will lubricate your valves. It used to be common practice to add upper cylinder oil to the gas, the 2 stroke oil will probably do as much good as Redex, Marvel Mystery Oil etc.

[Ron Green]

A few weeks ago while visiting my friends restoration shop I noticed a new vehicle in the shop amongst all the old cars under restoration. The front clip was off his new vehicle with the motor torn half down. Seems he had a few gallons of old gas laying around and thought it wouldn't hurt to mix it in with some fresh. Took out 3 valves.

[Rick Hoover]

Ron, I believe I owe you a bottle of suds for making that post. Brought a customers Caddy in here last week for some service work. It had been sitting since last Hershey and I barely made it to the shop because of the stale gas in it. [somebody forgot to add the stabilizer this winter. <span style="font-style: italic">Me.</span> ] This morning I pumped about 10 gallons out of it and kept looking out at my pickup, thinking about dumping it in it. Nah, I'll wait until after lunch and then do it. Read your post and needless to say, I changed my mind. So, tell the boys not to feel bad, as I was thinking of doing the same thing. Key word there was <span style="font-style: italic">thinking!</span>

[Rusty_OToole]

We were talking about fresh gas mixed with 2 stroke oil not old stale gas.

I have disposed of stale gas by dumping it in my furnace oil tank. Not 10 gallons though, less than a gallon.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were talking about fresh gas mixed with 2 stroke oil not old stale gas. </div></div>

Didn't mean to hijack this thread however I didn't see anywhere in the post that the gas was fresh. Since it referenced a snow blower I assumed the gas was getting into the "old" zone.

Rick, I may take you up on those suds some day. The shop I speak of you know of quite well in Glen Rock.

[nearchoclatetown]

Ron, don't hold your breath waiting for the FREE suds. Next time you're in Glen Rock with the wife, eat at the Old Mill in down town GR. It was worth a few brownie points on Sat. PM. for me!

[R Walling]

In 1970, I was repairing a car for a used car dealer and it ran out of gas as I was driving it into the shop. I put in some gas out of my snowmobile to get it inside.

I told the dealer about it in case a customer noticed it smoking...The dealer thought about it for a minute or so and his eyes lit up, He said, " I never thought of that one!"

LOL

[CarlLaFong]

Not to be a Doubting Thomas, but how can a little old gas, mixed in with some fresh gas "take out" the valves??? Did they burn up or break off or what? I don't buy it. I have fired up and ran some cars on gas that was several years old, and though they ran lousey, they suffered no damage. I just started my weed eater yesterday with last summers gas/oil mix in it and it ran like a top.

[Guest ZondaC12]

Yeah I'd figure that was some kind of fluke. Though exactly what "took out" means is important to know, could make it seem more odd, or it could be an "ohhhhhh oohhhkay" moment.

For what it's worth (very little ) The '38 started and ran after sitting for 25 years, on the 25 year old gasoline contained in the carburetor and fuel lines until the fresh stuff in the tank reached it.

[jscheib]

I do not know if it is still done, or not, with EPA regs, but perhaps your local Fire Department, especially if volunteer, might want to use some old gas to burn for small training fires. The usually have a collection/storage tank for it at some training grounds (I think).

John

[bill pritchett]

Peter,

You know with the price of gas, I should put it in my safe deposit box and take it out in a few years. It will probably be worth more than gold.

[Rusty_OToole]

Old gas turns to varnish. You can tell it by the foul odor. This stuff will gum up your engine and freeze it so tight it would take a safe cracker two years to free it up.

It seems today's gas turns bad a lot faster than the gas of 20 years ago. In those days gas would keep for years, today it goes bad in months.

I have cleaned old gas out of a tank of a car that had been in the garage, untouched, for 30 years. The gas came out in black tarry chunks.

[Guest ZondaC12]

Yep definitely goes bad quicker now. The buick's gas looked JUST like "Hi-C" the orange fruit drink. It was a solid deep <span style="font-weight: bold">orange</span>, and smelled horrible. BUT it was liquid, and just as thin as you'd expect gasoline to be! I have a small gas can mixed as two-stroke in my shed for a chainsaw I havent used in one year. I checked it just recently, it actually smells almost as bad as the stuff in the Buick did. I sure hope no one leaves a car sitting for decades now, that will be a terrible sight when it's brought back to light again.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 58Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a Doubting Thomas, but how can a little old gas, mixed in with some fresh gas "take out" the valves??? </div></div>

Sorry I didn't get a picture or a written statement however the restorer and friend that showed me this is extremely knowledgeable with both old and new cars. He put 5 gallons of old gas in and the within a few days he had valve issues.

[CarlLaFong]

I just have to believe all of this is myth and legend. Exactly what sort of highly toxic/acidic/abrasive mystery substance does gas turn onto that it can, according to some, literally saw engine components in half? Yes, I have seen some pretty gummy stuff come out of old gas tanks. That stuff is so thick and nasty that it could never flow thru the fuel lines, let alone, make it past the carb jets or injectors to do it's nefarious damage to the engine. Just exactly were the "issues"? The fact is the gas, no matter how old, is either going to burn or not. A few gallons mixed with new gas simply cannot do any damage. You can run a Model T on kerosene.

[Ron Green]

Putting old gas in a vehicle can effect the firing / spark as gas will explode thru the sparkplug via the timing at a set point. Now when you have some old gas your car can run bad and knock, etc. Now put enough old gas in, run it under load, run it some more and you can bend or brake a valve. Some newer engines are not build as solid as the older ones. This is probably what happened to my friend.

[Rusty_OToole]

The old gas turns to a varnish like substance. It will coat the parts and cause them to stick in place, sticking the rings to the pistons and sticking the valves to their guides preventing them from moving.

He may have had 3 valves freeze in place. If it was an OHV engine and the valves were stuck open when the piston came up it would be goodbye valve and goodbye piston as well.

[Guest pfloro]

I'm not a petroleum chemist but I've read a bit about oil refining (very fascinating). I would guess that the light hydrocarbon molecules evaporate

over time. The 'heavier' molecules might also break down due to age & temperature and form the 'varnish like' mess. I'm sure the anti-knock,

anti-wear and anti-??? compounds also go south...

I would dispose of old fuel in a responsible way & not burn it an engine (IMHO).

Paul

[CarlLaFong]

Putting old gas in a vehicle can effect the firing / spark as gas will explode thru the sparkplug via the timing at a set point.

What!?!?!

Now when you have some old gas your car can run bad and knock, etc. Now put enough old gas in, run it under load, run it some more and you can bend or brake a valve. Some newer engines are not build as solid as the older ones. This is probably what happened to my friend.

I don't want to beat this to death, but there is no validity whatsoever in this statement. Your first sentence makes, absolutly, no sense. The old gas may cause some knocking or preignition or detonation. This is not a function of the ignition system, but a dieseling effect caused by compression, or a hot spot in the cylinder. Since it only occurs at the end of the compression stroke, when the valves are firmly seated, bending or breaking them is virtually impossible. Damage to the piston head and ring lands as well as cracked and burned spark plug insulators is the usual damage caused by sever and persistant preignition. I have rebuilt many engines and have never seen one fail due to the use of bad gas. Additionaly, all of the bent valves that I've encountered were easily explained. Swallowed a foreign object, timing chain/belt issue, valve float and attendant collision with the piston, etc. I suppose if one were to burn old gas as a matter of habit, things could get gummed up, but I still doubt that catastophic failure would occur. As to the idea that a few gallons of bad gas mixed with a few gallons of fresh gas could freeze up the valves is absurd. This would take many thousands of miles and hundreds of gallons of killer gas.

I also question the idea that this varnish-like substance that we've all heard of since childhood somehow has the magical ability to remain a sticky, gooey engine killer at the extreme temperatures encountered in the combustion chamber.

All these urban myths like sugar in the gas and concrete sucking the life out of batteries really should be put to rest.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, or "righteous", I just try to find the truth or at least make a dilligent effort. There are more important issues to worry about like UFOs and how the Masons really run the world (or is it the Elks?)

[Rusty_OToole]

Well Mr Mustang next time I buy an old car full of old stinky gas we will bring it over and run it thru your Mustang and see what happens.

I have seen old gas that had literally hardened into a black tar. After it reaches the foul smelling orange stage, but before it turns to tar it will go thru the carb and burn but it will sure mess up your engine.

You should also leave a good battery on a cement floor for a month and see what happens. The battery will be dead as hell that's what happens. And it will never take a charge again. Put the same battery on a wooden shelf 4" above the same floor and it will keep all winter.

[CarlLaFong]

Well, Mr Tool, you believe whatever you choose, even if it flys in the face of 21st century scientific fact. Makes no difference to me. All I have are quite a number of years worth of experience and an open mind.

Please note that I sold the Mustang, so we'll burn the old gas in something else.

I pulled the battery out of my Boss Hoss almost 2 months ago and put it right on the battery killing garage floor. Last weekend I stuck it back in and it fired in 2 or 3 seconds. Weird, huh?

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Too controversial

[Guest ZondaC12]

The sugar-in-the-gas won't hurt things and the engine will run IF its been given time to dissolve. If not definitely you'll have clogged fuel filters/injectors if its EFI etc.

And then I gotta imagine one of these old things the gas drains back down the line like mine after siting for two weeks and it evaporates out of the float bowls, then you'd probably get the sticky mess in THERE like after you spill Pepsi and it dries up. And that doesn't matter if it's dissolved or not.

[nearchoclatetown]

Before you clowns choose guns or knives please reread the original question!! Mr. Pritchard wants to know if he can put ONE gallon of mixed gas from his snowblower in a FULL tank of regular gas in his old car. MAybe I'm assuming, but I kind of thought since winter has just left the gas was from THIS winter, should not be orange and rank or black and tarbased. And most any old car I know of has at least a ten gallon tank, so that's about a ten percent dilution. The won't cause the end of the world!! No wonder there are so few new forum members that will join in ANY discussion here!

[Guest ChaplainLar]

I agree..... seems like most questions end up with a heated discussion instead of dealing with the issue at hand. The few questions I have been a part of....most have made me feel like an idiot. Maybe I am, but thats why I ask the questions!

[CarlLaFong]

Clowns??? I'm sorry you feel that way. I simply tried to make the same point that you are trying, probably in vain, to make. A gallon of 2 stroke mix or slightly stale gas won't hurt a thing. Anyone stupid enough to scrape the thick goop into his tank with a putty knife deserves whatever might happen. Sorry for attempting to be the voice of reason here. I am not afraid of a discussion, until it turns into a pissing match. Those who wish to continue dancing around the campfire or wearing the tinfoil hat, be my guest.

[Ron Green]

Octane, by definition, is the resistance to burn or detonation. The higher the rating, the slower the burn when ignited during the compression burn cycle of the piston. With older fuel the burn cycle could be disturbed / slowed somewhat thus changing when detonation should occur; the spark will occur at the wrong time.

nearchoclatetown, completely agree and the circus is packed and heading down the road!

[R Walling]

I just scraped 3 trucks that I haven't driven in 5 years. I ended up with 40 gal. of gas. It went into my 72 Ford dump truck, my 65 International snowplow.

Since then it has stopped snowing and hasn’t snowed yet!

Who says that old gas isn’t good for something?

Ps, My 65 Mustang had sat for about 10 years. I had started it every 2 or 3 years to keep the motor free. I drove it during the summer of 05 and was very happy with the same gas that was 10 years old.

( I guess that no one told the motor that it shouldn’t have started)