Peter J.Heizmann

CONGRATULATIONS, PETER GARIEPY !!! Most deserving to your lost friend, as well as ours... Regards, Peter J.

Hybrid... I will be sending 6 bags via snail-mail tomorrow. Use wire ties instead of steel wire or a twisty. Give me a yell for any further info. They should do the trick. Regards, Peter J.

John... Likewise to previous folks posting, John. This is not good news, bud. In a case like this, immediately pick up the sticks...get over the natural human reaction to get depressed. Again, as others posted, it probably is a blessing in disquise as it appeared to be inevitable, just a matter of time. One thing I "sincerely" can tell you, this forum has generated a "sister-hood/brother-hood" and simply, lean on us in hard times. There are many knowledgeable and creative folks at your disposal... Keep in touch with all of us... Peter J.

Hybrid...here is some info on the rust preventative bags, etc.: ULINE, 2200 S. Lakeside Dr., Waukegan, IL 60085 --1-800-295-55510 --uline.com ________________________________________________________________________________ Anti-Rust Paper. Ask them about the "Heavy Duty" Paper as the ad touts "excellent to protect steel, iron and other ferrous metals during long term storage". Poly-Bags: (this is what we use at Donsco for raw casting rust prevention) Corrosion inhibitor is embedded in low density polyethylene film. Stretch Wrap: (this may be the best, and, easiest for your engines). Corrosion inhibitor is embedded in the stretch film. Hope this helps somehow, Regards, Peter J.

Hybrid...I will get the info tomorrow and post it in the evening. Regards, Peter J.

Hi, Dan... Just a question...If the Wyoming Winds blow leaves into Nebraska (a reliable source told me that some years ago.), then, the snow eventually winds up on Sharon's side of the driveway in PA. Just a calculated guess... Regards, Peter J.

Hi, Diz...good point, bud. I attended New Bern and Moline... --Fondest memory of Moline's AGNM: A gent came up to me and literally asked me to my face: "Where did all of these nice cars come from?" (He was flabberghasted when I told him from all over the U.S. of A.) I, in turn, learned a lot about his neck of the woods. My car was directly across the street from the very interesting John Deere Pavillion. I had more questions about the equipment than he did about the cars. We chatted for at least 30 minutes. When I asked what a Combine on the mall cost without accessories, he told me about a cool $180,000+. As you concur, Diz...beautiful display of cars with many families visiting. --New Bern: Went there, too, with Ron and Judy Flory...great friends. This was also held on the streets. Fondest Memory: "Very old, quaint shops, stores, Pepsi Cola's founding site, Southern hospitality from total stangers, and, the cars...One would walk up to an intersection of streets, look left and see '50's Chevy's, look another way, and see '20's trucks, go wherever, and see other vehicles. Just a great time in New Bern that I won't forget... Getting a scratch here, riled up there is all part of showing a vehicle in my opinion...when you see parents walking up with there young children attempting to educate them on cars, things will happen. Where I have gotten a kick out of the show deal is offering to let the little person sit in the seat, close the hood & trunk, and, let Dad, or, Grandad take a photo...amazing how the smiles pop up. Love it when a child gives me a perplexed look that says: "huh, can I?". These are true stories of which I have been blessed... Regards, Peter... --

Howdy, Wayne...seeing as you are my "Senior" by a mere 2 weeks, I am obligated to show respect for my elders, so... Sorry, bud...these bags do not tout cryogenics to preserve a human body, just preserve metal objects. I am depressed just typing this... Pedro...

Hi, Hybrid...welcome to the forum. For commercial castings produced daily in my business (foundry/machining), we utilize a bag, of which, is fairly close to a large trash bag, however, the mils are thicker than the average household trashbag. They come in various sizes depending on the need. (Small for hardware size pieces-to-large to fit into a truck's pallet size container.) These bags are treated to create a mono-molecular atmosphere, whereas, it generates a "very" light oil over the part to prevent oxidation. We have literally stored new castings in wet, damp, snow conditions for over a year, and, if no holes are punched in the bags, there is absolutely no oxidation. The bags can be ordered in many sizes. Just like a trash bag, you insert the subject part/parts, twist the 'ole twisty, and, leave it alone. Respond if you need further info. When I get to the office Monday, I could have our Purchasing Director give me name, address, etc. Regards, Peter J.

Dave and Don...interesting comments. The study I performed on George Rohrbach's old Studebaker bolt was to compare "strength and cosmetically improving" a 70 year + bolt, versus, what is available today, comparative metallurgy, and, so on. To grind off bolt head markings to make them look pretty is fine, in my opinion, for show purposes. To replace them in a safety application can be disasterous if you assume the bolt should work as it is brand new from the "el-cheapo automotive stores" out there. If it is a non-load atmosphere and the bolt looks good, go for it. If a Safety atmosphere after 70 + years, use common sense... Glad to see CAT, and, probably other OEM folks are doing spot checks...what scares the hell out of me is the run of the mill Auto Stores out there today, of which, practically everything they display has been manufactured by offshore vendors somewhere within this fragile earth, that, could not care less about our DEP, Air Regulations, etc... It all gets back to economy, the jobs that were lost within this country, the almighty $$...the gent that alluded to the Air Force aircraft "ductile" bolt scenario above...well, they were made in China, where all our jobs within the metal working industry are headed, or, have gone. Ductile is an alloyed iron. To cheat on its metallurgy could only be attested to by the Titanic passengers. (The ships plate was a "cheap/rushed" supposed ductile". In cold atmospheres, ductile becomes "brittle" and could literally shatter.) Our air-pollution boys within the U.S. of A. have not the guts to take the initiative to enforce the same regs on them. (Unfair of me. They probably could not care less!!.) Until then, keep cosmetically improving an "ancient bolt", or, "buy from China, India, and, the Pacific Rim in general. Peter J.

Hi, Tom... Without doubt there is a strong movement to generate the interest of the youth. (I totally agree, having witnessed it many times with Doug and Fran's programs at meets, observations of such venues as the Regions and Chapters...) How many would respond to a "mailer"? Right now, we have a small percentage that are in the "computer/internet" media, compared to the "total AACA membership". If only 5% would give us their suggestions, experiences, we would have a certain 5% more than we have by depending totally on this Forum... Regards, Peter J.

Folks, below, I cut & paste a "Bolt Strength" study I performed in Dec. 2002 to assist queries from Stude8 concerning "bolt strength". When you read the metallurgy results of the 3 specimen bolts I utilized in tests of micro-structure, for whatever reason, the columns did not remain in a clear order. Look at the sample headings used when you get to the micro-structure area: "TEMPERED" -- "GRADE 8" -- "GEORGE'S SAMPLE" "You will see a noticeable difference from an original bolt that George supplied for the test. "KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN DECIDING TO USE AN OLD BOLT OR GOING WITH A REPLACEMENT". -- "SAFETY!!! (IT WAS A DESTRUCTIVE TEST..."PAY CLOSE ATTENTION WHEN YOU READ THE TORQUE SHEAR POINTS TEST" AREA...YOU WILL NOTICE THAT GEORGE'S ORIGINAL BOLT METALLURGY DOES NOT CUT IT IN SAFETY RELATED APPLICATIONS OF TODAY'S BOLT!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________ Re: Bolt strength #140989 - 12/18/02 07:55 PM Edit Reply Quote This is going to be a "long" one folks. I will start, with due respect, to George Rohrbach, who, made the initial post/query. In decending order, I post direct/simple opinions of "old" bolts vs. "modern" manufacture. Afterwards, the technical findings of the study, again, in decending order. George: --Go with Grade 8, or, other Tempered Bolts and Nuts for replacement on steering, tie rods, etc. applications. Your sample of a 1920-30's era bolt failed convincingly compared to Grade 8 and the jh Tempered Bolt. As Bill Stoneberg posted, Grade 8, or, other good Tempered Bolt. --85,000 p.s.i. is normally for internal pressures for pressure vessels. Brinnell Hardness, or, a Rockwell Scale reading is the question: Again, replace with a high Grade/Tempered bolt. --Bolt Head Dimensions: (Did not use a Stainless bolt, as I personally would not use them for steering applications) Tempered Bolt: .532 Grade-8 Bolt: .534 George's Bolt: .539 --Brinnell Hardness of the Tempered jh Bolt tested was first: 327.5-344.5 Brinnell Hardness of the Grade-8 Bolt tested was second: 293.5-310.5 Brinnell Hardness of the 1920-30's Bolt tested as third: 258.0-271.0 --Torqued Shear Points of the 3: Tempered jh Bolt: Withstood 200 ft. lbs. Grade-8 Bolt: Withstood 200 ft. lbs. George's Bolt: Sheared at 147 ft. lbs. (These bolts were all bolted down into tool steel with the heads flush to the surface.) --JB-ed posted: "the Head Size was reduced about the same time bolts were "Graded" and would it have any affect on strenth?" in so many words: Not in my opinion. The measurements of George's bolt head (.539)to the lowest measurement, the Tempered Bolt (.532) is miniscule, although, we are not creating a Space Shuttle here. We are looking at a difference of .007. The millage of the coatings could be just the difference. --De Soto Frank posted: "...TRW joints included grade-8 hardened bolts in lieu of rivets". THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING WHEN REPLACING BOLTS ON SUCH A SAFETY ITEM. The study I found sure backs it up, folks. --Now, the chemistery findings: (NOTE: Copper I found to be "Residual", meaning, it was present in either re-cycled metal, and, passed along to the bolt when it was produced. Moly (Molybdenum, Mo) The Grade-8 Bolt appears to have been intentionally inoculated with Mo with a reading of .20. The Tempered Bolt had .02 and George's Bolt had .00, so, they read as residual. THIS BACKS UP BILL'S AND FRANK'S INPUT, THAT, ONE SHOULD USE A HIGH GRADE. 8 IN THEIR EXPERIENCES. Here we go: Grade 8/ Tempered/ George's Sample Carbon © .39 .40 .35 Silicon (Si) .21 .23 .16 (Look out, folks!!) Phospherous (P) .008 .012 .007 (Low) Sulphur (S) .012 .011 .024 (Air Quality back then??) Manganese (Mn) .73 .69 .64 Nickel (Ni) .02 .02 .01 (Low) Chrome (Cr) .99 .10 .09 Copper (Cu) .01 .01 .05 (ALL 3 RESIDUAL) Molybdenum (Mo) .20 Intential .02 Residual .00 (Non-existent) Magnesium (Mg) .00 .00 .00 --Bottom line, go with Bill Stoneberg and Frank's advise...Grade-8 for replacement. --This is one of those posts you hate to "hit send" in the sense that the "Legal Beagles" could rear their heads, however, the study was done on ISO Certified Spectrometers, and, Gauges, all of which, have been Certified within 4 days. IT WAS PERFORMED TO HELP STEER HOBBYIST'S IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION CONCERNING SAFETY ITEMS. Hope some of this helps...bottom line, do not fool around with cosmetics of a bolt without knowing what is under the o.d. Regards, Peter J.

Tom...interesting concept. My thoughts on the efforts made to-date generate something to throw out... This AACA Forum is not the total AACA Membership by any means. Although we are up to probably 14-15,000 posts, the AACA Membership is around 63,000 +. To reach the majority of membership, why not have a questionaire sent to the "total" via the AACA magazine for input. To me, it is quite obvious, that a minority are responding via the internet, however, the gold mine of input has yet to be tapped. Regards, Peter J.

John...welcome to the forum... To answer your query, more information is required. Where are the bolts utilized? Metallurgy has a lot to do with it. Are they stainless, steel, etc.? After bead blasting, the pitch of the bolt threads could have been altered to the point they will not be accepted by the pitch of the return area. Pitting...I can only assume they are steel rod bolts and internal oxidation could be hidden, although, the exterior looks decent. Do your best to respond with more info... Regards, Peter J.

Ron, you bet I would enjoy driving your Pontiac. One beautiful car. I am planning on attending the Grand National. I'll introduce you to Diz, too, as we are planning to get together. So you folks know where Ron and I are coming from here, he is a great friend with the finest looking '55 Pontiac I have ever seen. Not many of them at shows. My father's first "new" car was a '55 Pontiac 2-door Safari Wagon. Whenever I look at Ron's, it brings back so many great memories. Many of the features are the same as the Safari Wagon. Ron's Pontiac has been on loan to our new museum, so, if anybody wants to see a fine car, take a gander. Regards, Peter J.

Hi, Ron...hope all is well. This display certainly sounds great. Just so all the volunteers do not think their efforts go unnoticed, my company's Technical Director is from India. He has friends coming to visit the U.S. Smajareet asked me about local attractions of which he could take his friends. I mentioned some, and, what caught me totally off-guard is when he asked what I knew about the "New" Automotive museum in Hershey. Wow!! Did I give him an ear-full. Brought in photos from the opening ceremony and that's all he needed to put it on his agenda. (Now, as far as "My" Pontiac at the museum goes, the one you take care of for me, Ron, it is in good hands. I would never think of gutting it to make the pedal mechanism I built work easier, though, it did cross my mind.) Regards, Peter J.

Phil...good points on over-building and the 3 feet of snow. Sorry to digress, however, it is relevant: Insurance -- "Be certain you folks have "AGREED VALUE" on the old iron, not, "STATED VALUE". I doubt many of us will forget the photo in Old Cars some years ago that showed about 40-45 collector convertibles reduced to junk after a fire. To make it more of a nightmare, the owner did not have "AGREED VALUE" and lost a pile of money on top of the junk. Regards, Peter J.

More than likely based on his/her (?) bazaar posts, Howard...

Interesting site, Tommy... Must agree with the problems of rods with a high Nickel content. Nickel creates an austenitic (Austempered) metallurgy. (e.g...Austempered Ductile, of which we pour, is used in "high wear" applications by most customers.) Excellent for wear characteristics. Bottom line, in my opinion, is do some research on what atmosphere will the welded piece be submitted to, such as, load, no-load, high heat, vibration, and, so on. Tommy, contact me for any further help...my access to Donsco's "think tank" of metallurgist', of whom, know a lot more than I do, is at your disposal. Regards, Peter J.

Hi, Tommy... For starters, I am in the "make good parts first" business. (Grey and Ductile Iron Parts.) However, for welding, there are rods out there today that tout they can do the job. Pre-heating the parts in the general area of the weld to avoid crystallization of the carbides is a most important facit. Below, I copy a similar opinion I submitted on February 12, 2002. (Look in the "Search" area and there were various other similar submissions I made over the years on the forum.): ________________________________________________________________________________ 02/12/02: Chuck, very interesting experiences you forward. It brings another thought to mind concerning welding Fe (iron) parts, especially those trying to weld cracks/leaks in exhaust manifolds. Most manifolds are made of grey iron, not ductile iron, which is somewhat of a semi-steel. There are rods out there now that tout "grey iron friendly". I do not know enough about them to comment in depth, but, they must work to some degree. However, one key step if you try to save a "rare" manifold is to pre-heat the area to reduce thermal shock. Simply picture an ice cold peace suddenly being shocked with the heat of welding. The carbides in the iron "crystalize" (under a microscope, and, even the naked eye, one can actually see crystals in white, or, silver colors. The area away from the target appears grey, which it should be.) Over the years, a few customers asked about welding cast iron. My basic answer is to go for it if it is not a safety related casting, such as a manifold to stop a leak. If it was a safety related casting, I tell the customer to do his own research as I will not have anything to do with it, and, change the subject ASAP. If my company ships a defective casting, I demand they return them for us to scrap. Sort of digressed from Bill's original queries about chrome plating, however, the message remains: What type metallurgy are we dealing with, is it really worth trying to salvage or buy a new/NOS part, and, "preparation". Regards, Peter J. [ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Peter J Heizmann ] -------------------- Peter J. Heizmann 1972 Triumph TR-6 AACA #383299 Life Member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, before I forget, if it is a "non-load atmosphere" of the parts, go for it. If it is a "load atmosphere" use your better judgement.

Very well said, Howard...that's about how I had the guy pegged years ago. It could be a beautiful day...sun and blue sky, yet, this type will give a a littany of nonsense that it is a cloudy, nasty day just to satisfy their egos to prove you wrong, although you are correct. Just the way their mindset works. Still wish his type would take all of their knowledge and go over to the Pacific Rim to force their issues and regulations on the foundries to make it a level playing field in the U.S. Heck, he would be a hero for helping industry in the country where he is free to blow steam at will. He may actually create jobs to make up for the thousands lost here due to "some" good regulations, however, "some" ridiculously costly regulations. Pacific Rim countries, where the casting work relocated couldn't care less about our regs, they only love the jobs it created. (Reminder folks: In China, for an example, the profits from these state-owned companies are buying armaments for their military machine...) Wishful thinking on my part. This type guy from experience, would not have the guts to serve one day in the military. Very good and professional at cricizing practically everything and everyone, however, no guts to serve. If he served, then I apologize in advance. Sorry folks, this is how I have always had the man pegged. Sorry, RJ for ruining your fine thread, but, this guy triggered me...I will understand if my post gets deleted. Peter J.

RJ...thanks for posting this...really appreciate it. Nice memories... Regards, Peter J.

Earl...you sure got that right!! Regards, Peter J.

Hi, Claire... Appreciate your scenario with your son. Very soon, you will see what Diz means, which, should peak the interest of your son. Diz was tame in describing his career as "been down the fast road". Diz is one of the most interesting people I have met in a long time. Regards, Peter J.

Folks, thought I would jump in here just to make some comparitive points... I'm in the foundry business. The case example (below) is to show the "living wood" characteristics: --Have a customer in Southern New Jersey. Volume of castings is low (10 here, 25 there). All of their patterns are "Pine". Although we retain & store their patterns in a dry, careful, fire sprinklered area, it is not uncommon to receive an order for a part number requiring one of these "long stored" patterns. Well, we pull the (pine) pattern out of storage...mold and cast the part. The customer complains that the grey iron casting tolerances are out of spec, or, the long configured part is warped (no machine stock at a given point), and, henceforth... --Point: Just by being in a controlled atmosphere for years, wood changes, depending on its consistency. In my opinion, the wood, combination of woods used on "woodies", restoration of a 50, 60 year old "woodie", is no different than the aforementioned patterns. I have experienced some patterns constructed of mahogany on high profile configurations, then, for an unknown reason, the patternmaker used pine for the low profile areas. Well, one has two different woods reacting to climate and years, totally different. You have climates to consider: Dampness where it is stored, fluctuating temperatures where I live (Summer humidity/Winter coldness), Dry conditions in the Southwest...so on, and, so on... As for a car with wood that you bought: i.e...It was built in Indianapolis in the Winter. The second owner moved to Southern California. After 30 years, the third owner lives in Vermont...endless. Then, you, the 4th or 5th person to owner buys the car, goes to restore it, and, wonders: Why are there so many differentiating pieces to the wood. It all has a bearing, believe me... Regards, Peter J.