Matt Harwood

I have an Edit History link for every single person's post. I don't bother looking, but I, too, am prone to saying things that I don't really mean to say and going back to delete the evidence. I'd like that to continue to be the case without people being able to forensically track my idiocy.

The title issue is very common in the old car world--he simply didn't feel like paying his taxes and is asking you to help him evade paying taxes by taking the old title and pretending he never owned the car. I'd say a good 40% of old cars are titled this way, and it doesn't necessarily mean problems for you, but if the title gets kicked by the DMV, who do you see for a replacement? The guy has your money and the landlord from whom he bought it has no incentive to help you, so you'll be boned. The engine rebuild isn't such a big deal. If it's running right and doesn't make noises or smoke, then it's probably OK. They're relatively simple machines and if someone screws up an engine rebuild, it usually reveals itself in short order rather than over a long period of time. Finally, if you have any misgivings at all, walk away. There are plenty of other cars out there that will tempt you and make you happy. This is a hobby, starting off with a whole bunch of misgivings isn't right. Those misgivings won't go away after you've bought the car, you'll simply start trying to rationalize them away to make yourself feel better about a purchase your gut told you was wrong. You'll never be totally happy with the car if you start off wondering if there are problems and every time it makes a weird noise, that'll be a concern that won't go away. You'll never feel confident. There are other cars out there, as Bernie said, wait for the one that makes you terrified that you'll miss your chance to own it.

But they are technically "production" cars that you can buy from a dealer and do with as you wish. The intent that they go racing doesn't automatically make them racing cars. Street legal or not, the factory built them, the public bought them and then used them however they wished, race or not. Therefore, they should be considered production cars, at least in the AACA's eyes. No race history, not a race car. I used to race my 1993 Ford Mustang, now I don't. When it's eligible for AACA events in two years, I won't be trying to register it as a race car. The point of the race car class is to focus on the history of the race car, not the mere existence of it.

Although this site is rife with skilled, passionate hobbyists with wildly varied interests, I don't think it's a good forum for selling a car, least of all an unusual little French Renault located 6000 miles away from most of them. In the last 5 years, I have advertised nearly 100 cars on this site and to date, exactly one has sold to a forum member who saw it here. People will look, people will comment, and it will look like there's considerable interest, but there's really not--they're sight-seers and curiosity seekers. That's why this forum is great--you see all kinds of stuff you wouldn't ordinarily see even if you don't necessarily want to own it. I love the AACA, I love this forum, I love the guys who post here, but I've stopped listing cars here because it's just a waste of time in terms of time invested vs. successful sales. That makes me sad, but it's quite likely why your response rate is zero. As Matt Hinson suggests, a bigger mass-market site like eBay or Hemmings would likely get your car sold for something close to your investment. The buyer for your car is probably a European, not an American, and they aren't looking here. However, they do look at eBay and Hemmings on a regular basis and will find the car there. They don't have as big a problem with a car located on another continent like Americans do (too much good stuff domestically, I guess), and they have a better understanding of the Renault's place in history. They probably also like that it's small and low-horsepower, whereas Americans typically want big bodies and big power and French cars in general have never really succeeded here. Don't get discouraged, don't destroy anything, but please consider changing your marketing tactic. Nobody will respond to blackmail, nobody will buy it just because it's cheap, and you're simply targeting the wrong people. It's like telling the vegans that you'll burn down a McDonald's if they don't meet your demands. I suspect they probably wouldn't care.

That's true; this one was imported when it was new by Sun International in CA, who did most of the R5 Turbos currently in the US. It's kind of interesting because they put a decal over the speedometer face so it would read in MPH, but the odometer is still in kilometers (it reads about 17,600 original km). I don't see many other changes, even to the emissions controls, to federalize it beyond that. It's a sitting duck when the turbo is asleep, but keep it above 3500 RPM or so and it just lunges forward like it's hungry. I never thought much about these cars, either, but now that I've experienced one, they really are pretty cool little machines.

Could an auction company have embellished the story to try to hype the car?

Laugh all you want, but this nasty little chunk of French weaponry is about as cool as the '80s get. Take one Renault 5 (that was the LeCar here in the US), yank the wheezing front-wheel-drive powertrain, stuff a turbocharged and intercooled engine in the back, and go hunting. With the same power-to-weight ratio as a C4 Corvette and a suspension that allows you to go through the corners with your foot on the floor, I've not driven a hot hatchback that's as much fun as this little spud. Sadly, they were cheap for decades, but the market has caught on that they're red hot. They're trading hands for about 10 times what they were about 15 years ago, and it's hard to find one that hasn't been modified and abused. This one has about 10,000 original miles (still sitting on its original tires!), so it's probably the nicest one in the world, but you can probably still get driver-grade cars under $40K.

It's a full frame car, so it should be robust enough to handle the 2-post lift. As you surely already know, it's always best to put the outriggers as close to axles as possible. The fame is flexible, but not THAT flexible, so you should have no issues lifting it. I'd recommend leaving the top up, but it shouldn't really make a difference. The body is mostly a cosmetic piece, not a critical piece of the structure like the frame. Just use care, go slow, and keep an eye on the door gaps as it comes off the floor--that will show you how much flex you're really getting. I don't think it'll hurt anything. Please post back and let us know you're OK!

Both cars need money spent on them before they'll be turn-key and totally ready to go. I like the Buick better mostly because it's cheaper and hasn't been "messed with." An engine swap on the Ford (and a downgrade in displacement) suggests something bad happened and the guy who fixed it didn't have the money to do it correctly. What else did that guy botch? And I guarantee that the A/C doesn't "just need a charge" to be functional. If it was that easy, it would be working. And flames on the hood? Ugh. The Buick color change concerns me a bit, not because it's a color change, but because that paint looks like a bargain job and the guys who applied it are probably pretty good at making Bondo look like sheetmetal. The Buick motors make good torque, even in 2-barrel form, and I like how they drive compared to the Fords, which do feel a little cheap in comparison. The dent makes me worry, too, because it's deep enough and close to a crease that it won't be easy to just bump it out, it'll take paint and work to look right. Or you can live with it, that's something only you can decide. I have also discovered that Skylark bumpers like those are tough to find, so the flaking chrome and pitting might be an issue unless you have it re-plated yourself Put me down for the Buick, as it seems like more car for the money, but with either car, the purchase will only be the first of several good-sized checks you will be writing. Good luck!

+1 I'd recommend an overdrive, but that asking for that much speed combined with ancient brakes and suspension? No thanks. With an overdrive you might be able to improve it to 60 MPH, maybe 65 MPH if you're really brave and don't care about the risks or tearing up the bearings, but too much speed in a car of that vintage is asking for trouble.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I started my '41 Buick restoration 15 years ago. Fifteen! I have recently come to the realization that my life has changed and I won't be able to personally finish it and will be sending it to a professional shop shortly to get it done before I'm old. In the meantime, I've discovered the old adage that it's always cheaper to buy than build. I have bought several "permanent" members of my collection, including a 1929 Cadillac and a 1966 Mustang convertible, and have just acquired a 1941 Buick Limited limousine that I'm sorely tempted to keep. At any rate, I digress. You're making a smart decision. If you're not enjoying the journey or don't see a way that you can shepherd your Mustang to completion, sell it and move on. I think your choice of a Buick is an excellent decision, not just because I'm a Buick guy, but as a collector car dealer, I see that Buicks are huge bang for the buck. I have a 1971 Skylark convertible that is a car I would happily own forever and I have a 1970 Skylark convertible coming in that will be bargain priced in relative terms (under $20K). You couldn't touch a 1970 V8 Chevelle or GTO convertible in very good condition for that price, despite being very similar cars. You're making the right choice. I know it feels like you're betraying the car, yourself, your friends, and your family by "giving up," but I think you'll find that being behind the wheel with your family will help you build different memories that are good for everyone. It's my personal motto to enjoy life while I'm young enough to do it. Soon enough I'll be old and driving big, heavy old cars will be a challenge, so I'm doing it now, while I can. I suggest you do the same. The future will take care of itself, enjoy the now!

I actually like it, but I've always had a thing for both wagons and vehicles with all kinds of gear strapped to them, regardless of appearance. I like that rugged f-you functionality, as if getting the job done was more important than being pretty. I know this one isn't functional, but it's the look that I like.

For the purposes of classification in the AACA, I don't think it matters how the factory intended them to be used, it matters how they were sold. And it appears that the Super Duty cars were sold as "production" cars through regular dealer channels and purchased by guys who may or may not have bought them to go racing. Some guys wanted the fastest street car around and some did race, and as race cars, they would belong in the race car class. If we take the SDs out of class 36A, do they get left out of the AACA completely because most don't have race history and are therefore not eligible for the race car class? I don't think the classification committee is forcing all L88 Corvettes into the race class, are they? Shelby Cobras? Bugatti Type 35s? Max Wedge Mopars? All cars intended for racing but sold to the general public, who used them in a variety of ways, one of which might have been racing. If you had the money and knew how to place the order, they would give you a race car. The factory didn't particularly care what you were going to do with it. Yes, the SDs were intended to be race cars. They were built to be race cars. But if a car never raced, it doesn't have history, and as such, it doesn't belong in a class with race cars with histories. It's the same reason they don't put Parnelli Jones's restored 1970 Boss 302 Trans-Am racer into the production Mustang class, even though it is technically a production car...

I would have killed for those wheels on my '76 Eldorado convertible when I was 16.

Not meaning to sound like a jerk, but the SECOND link on a Google search for "1984 Oldsmobile VIN decoder" brings up a link with the following information. Google: learn it, use it, live it. All the information you want is there. First Digit: Identifies the nation of origin (1=United States) Second Digit: Identifies the manufacturer (G=General Motors) Third Digit: Identifies the Oldsmobile Division (3=Oldsmobile) Fourth Digit: Identifies the type of vehicle restraint system TYPE CODE Non-Passive/Manual Belts A Passive/Automatic Belts B Fifth Digit: Identifies the series SERIES CODE Cutlass Calais K Sixth & Seventh Digits: Identify the body Style BODY STYLE CODE 2 Door Coupe 47 Eigth Digit: Identifies the engine TYPE CARB CID CODE V8 4 Barrel 307 (5.0Liter) 9 Ninth Digit: is a check digit used to verify the VIN has been recorded correctly. Tenth Digit: Identifies the model year (E=1984) Eleventh Digit: Identifies the assembly plant ASSEMBLY PLANT CODE Lansing, MI M Last Six Digits: Represents the basic production numbers

Found this by doing nothing more difficult than clicking on the very first link on Google for the search term "1984 Oldsmobile VIN decoder." It seems that you do have a real Hurst/Olds. Year: 1984 Division: Oldsmobile Series: Cutlass Calais Body: Coupe (2 door) Engine: 307 (5.0) V8 4BBL Hurst/Olds Restraint Code: Non Passive/Active Corporation: General Motors Plant: Lansing, Michigan Serial Number: 408872

The way it's colored strongly suggests that it was a black and white photo that later had the colors added. That muted tone, while sometimes the effect of age, is also the way the "color" tool in Photoshop looks, since it applies a transparent layer of color over the original grayscale, which is why they're never as bright or crisp, but kind of soft and faded. The grayscale behind it keeps it from being bright. Also, very cool train!

Save some for me, Bob!

The problem is, if you do it for Pontiacs, you also have to do it for Mustangs, and Camaros, and Cadillac V16s with fake roadster bodies, and Model As with Model B engines, and, well, obviously it gets out of hand pretty quickly. The AACA can't be the numbers police, the magnitude of the job is just too overwhelming. It's great that the knowledge is out there to correctly identify special cars, but if you're going to apply this level of scrutiny to one type of car, you will have to apply it to all of them and that's just not possible except at the very highest levels of marque club competition where, as Ted Sweet points out, it takes a full team of experts the better part of a day to verify it completely. Steve and the folks in charge of AACA judging know it's a compromise and that there are real risks to the integrity of the hobby and the club where clones are concerned, but the reality is that this kind of job is just too big for a staff of volunteers spending a few hours looking at cars on a grass field.

I believe 77 SD Catalinas were built, but only 14 (11?) were "Swiss Cheese" cars. I don't think he needs the holes to be accurate. However, there are still plenty of unobtainium bits that did go into an SD that will be difficult to replicate, and if he wants to be judged, they'd better be there. Personally, I think it's a cool car nonetheless. At any rate, I was always under the impression that if a car presented on an AACA show field is as it could have been built by the factory it is eligible to be judged, regardless of how it was originally configured. I think a broad-based club like the AACA getting into chasing numbers and documenting such a wide variety of cars is an insurmountable task that would be unfair to unload onto the judges. Marque-specific clubs may verify that a car is as it was originally built, depending on the club, and that is probably the right place for a car to be properly vetted--I know the very highest levels of Corvette competition insist that the cars are 100% as-built and they do check numbers. While we don't like to say it out loud, general clubs like the AACA and CCCA that embrace a multitude of marques typically judge the quality of workmanship and general correctness while brand-specific clubs are better arbiters of absolute authenticity. Most AACA judges aren't going to know that on Tuesdays they used the orange throttle return spring while on Wednesdays they were green, but the judges at a marque show probably would. And to be honest, permitting accurately-done clones allows them to be entered as "could have beens" rather than clandestinely inserted into circulation, which is a much bigger problem (fraud) for everyone in the hobby. I would much rather have an owner be up front about what he has rather than lie and deceive to get it into a show where he would otherwise be unwelcome. I think the AACA should continue to be as welcoming as possible to people who want to keep their cars correct (if not accurate, if you understand how I'm using the terms), rather than modifying them. If someone wants to build a Catalina Super Duty clone, and he's doing it so accurately that a magnet won't stick to the bumpers or exhaust manifolds, I'm OK with that. It's better than seeing the car with a big block Chevy stuffed in it, because that's where a majority of the hobby is headed. It's a compromise, yes, but one that protects what we all cherish about the hobby. I agree that it would be beneficial to the club to do this kind of vetting, but given the amount of time it takes to document a marque with which you are familiar, let alone a type of car that may be unfamiliar, It's hugely prohibitive to make it a part of AACA judging and show requirements. Are we going to start pulling bodies off of Model As to make sure the frame number matches the engine number? Remember that if you're vetting one guy's car at the molecular level, you'd better be vetting them all, otherwise everyone will lose their minds--you guys who judge know what I'm talking about. Just to be clear for those who like to pick fights: I agree that clones can hurt the club's credibility, but I don't think it's practical to vet them on the show field nor ultimately beneficial to the club to keep cars like this Catalina out of shows. Purity tests ultimately hurt everyone and that's not why anyone is in this hobby. Remember this is supposed to be fun.

I had a water pump on a '41 Cadillac where the impeller walked on the shaft and started hitting the inside of the housing. Destroyed both. It came to me that way, so I don't know what it sounded like when it was happening, but by the time I got it, it had self-clearanced leaving the housing paper thin and the impeller ground down to the size of a silver dollar. The only reason I knew it had happened is because the car ran hot and finally pulled the pump off to have a look. Outwardly, it was not visible. It might have sounded like this.

SOLD! Thank you!

SOLD! Thank you!

Lower control arms show up frequently on eBay and are not expensive. Shocks can be exchanged with one of the rebuilders, which I'd recommend anyway. I wouldn't try to make what you have work properly, even with offset shafts and things like that. Are you sure the frame isn't tweaked? My '41 Century obviously took a hard hit in the left rear corner and my frame was bent. I pushed and pulled it back into shape, but it was notably bent.