GLong

I agree with Rusty, I think they are both early marine engines. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar if not the same 2cyl one in a wood boat years ago. GLong

As mentioned above: ATF, automatic transmission fluid has lubricity, and is very high detergent. And it is reasonably priced for an automotive lubricant. Many modern standard-shift transmissions use ATF instead of 90wt gear oil. Looking at the photo of the exposed main shaft of the trans, it looks very clean. I'd look with a flashlight into the bottom of the transmission case, and see if there is a lot of crud deposited there. The straight gear transmissions did not generate a lot of crud, since there is nothing wearing away, unlike in an automatic transmission. You might find very little on the bottom of the transmission case. GLong

There is nothing better than the Neway cutters for working on a flat head engine in the car. If a car has in-head valves, then I'd still prefer to do them my self, because some machine shops have no respect for old parts that are irreplaceable. For work on an engine in the car, nothing is worse than all that grinding-wheel grit getting everywhere in, on and around the engine. With the hand-cutters by Neway, the steel/iron shavings stay right next to the seat, and can be vacuumed up. I usually put a vacuum hose in the port of the valve seat I'm cutting, this sucks up all the metal filings as they are created. The engine deck stays clean. You never have to reface stones for wear or to correct the angle, and deal with the mess of more grinding grit everywhere. Ebay often has a few kits up for auction, but you need to educate yourself about the Neway products. There is a '100-series' and a '200-series' set of pilots, cutters and operating handles. I use the '200-series'. they have larger pilots to fit the big valve stem sizes of the old cars. The '100-series' is best for the imports, lawnmowers, motorcycles etc. GLong

Check the insulation for the point/condenser bolt that passes through he side of the distributor. Make sure the rubber or bakelite insulation block is clean and there is no chance it is shorting to the distributor. consider trying a third new condenser. If you are using a NOS one, they can 'sort-of' work, show a spark at the plugs but the engine won't start. This is an odd one, but put a jumper wire on the distributor body, and then to the body, or the engine block to assure a perfect ground for the distributor. Check that the condenser is tight, making a good ground to the point plate in the distributor. Look VERY closely at the rotor, and cap. use a magnifying glass. I've had a rotor develop an internal carbon track, it was found by looking in the recess where it sits on the distributor shaft.. just a tiny black spot that should not be there. Make sure your distributor cam has some lubrication on it. if it was or is dry, make sure the points have some gap, to have it exact at this time is not crucial, but the points must be opening at least .016-.020". And make sure there is no oil or a finger print on the points' surface. I've had terrible luck with 'C' spark plugs. If they get flooded once, they often are then junk, good for lining trash cans. I do not know why, other than the porcelain in the insulator seems to get a coating that shorts the plug. I know many people have no problems with them.. but try a previous 'used' set of plugs. Just sandblasting won't remove the 'plastic-like' coating that gets on the plugs when they are flooded. Look at the chronology of when the car would not start. Did you just buy a fresh tank of fuel? Did you do ANY carb, fuel pump, distributor work or make adjustments ? It cannot be driven into the garage and go out of time or become 180* off when it's sitting there. Just think back on when it ran last and then later when it would not start. Why did it flood? Operator error [ too much choke too long] ? That's what I sometimes do, I forget the particular way a car likes to be started. Then I flood it.. I've also found water in the float bowl of a carburetor, just a coincidence that it was running ok, when parked but would not start or run properly, and it needed the float bowl cleaned out, and the fuel tank sump drained.. Have you looked at or changed the fuel filter?? I know it's flooding, but maybe if you have a hidden see-through filter it might offer some clue, like a bunch of rust? or water ? When you do find the culprit please post it here, so we all can learn from your experience here. I hope you get your 120 on the road again soon. GLong

Lets 'get real' here: A Pierce Model 43 is not a 'low-level' Pierce Arrow. It is not 'low', or 'lower' or 'lesser' in any way. It cost a few hundred dollars less than a model 41/42. Mostly because of the smaller bodies on the shorter wheelbase. All the Pierce Arrow cars, and I mean ALL were built to a standard of quality, not to a price. And this is why Pierce eventually went bankrupt: they could not compete against cars built to a price standard, for Pierce, quality and advanced engineering were the law. If a person who has never been in each of the models of a car wants to KNOW, not guess, about the cars, then go to a Pierce Arrow regional or national meet, and look them over, ask the owners about them, most of us will gladly give a ride in our cars. And if the person indicates they know how to drive a car from the late '20's through mid 30's I will usually let someone drive one of my cars. The so-called 'small' 8 from Pierce is 366 cubic inches, that's NOT small, the 'small' Packard Standard-8 was 320 cuin. The Pierce and Packard big 8's were both 385 cubic inches, The Packard was rated for fewer horsepower. The model 43, with 134 and 137" wheelbase was fit with the smaller bodies, like the convertible coupe, or fixed top coupe, or Club Brougham [2-door/5 passenger]coach or the standard 5 passenger 4-door sedan. The bigger 385 cu. inch engine was used in the longer wheelbase cars because they NEEDED the bigger engine, those were 142 and 147 inch wheelbase cars. That is the only difference between the models, the wheelbase length and the size of the body that wheelbase would accommodate. The fit and finish were identical, the wheels, tires, brakes, front and rear axles, gas tank, headlights and tail lights, radiator shell all identical. Tire size sometimes was upgraded for weight-carrying capacity. There were some differences in doors on the hood, and some bits of chrome trim. The ONLY time there was a possible difference in fit and finish was if the car had a body by a custom coachmaker. And it is difficult when put side by side to find fault with the 'factory' Pierce coachwork, it was after all, all hand made and assembled. The 366 'small' 8 is built to the same identical standards as the 385. It does not have a cast crank, they were all forged crankshafts, the difference is that the 366 crank has bolt on counterweights while the 385 crank has integral counterweights. None of the Pierce engines have any issues in design. The lubrication systems are the same, the intake and exhaust manifolds are the same, the distributor may use a different cap and rotor.. it's still a Delco distributor. In fact, without looking at the engine serial number the engines are identical. If a rebuilder wants to, he can put the 1/4" longer stroke 385 crankshaft in a 366 block, since they are the same casting, use shorter pistons, and turn a 366 into a 385. The factory ratings were 125hp for the 366, and 132hp for the 385 in 1931. So a 7 hp increase for the 19 cubic inch increase in engine displacement. If all three 1931 models were lined up side by side and looked over, the differences are the wheelbase, and available body styles. You will be hard-pressed to tell the differences without an intimate knowledge regarding the model year. Only in 1930 did Pierce attempt to make a slightly 'lesser' car for their lineup. The Model C had an inch shorter wheelbase than the Model B's. The 'C' engine was 340 cubic inches, and a single throat updraft carb was used, it was 'merely' 115 hp vs the 366 engine in the Model B which made 125 hp. That 'experiment' was for one year only. But again, put the cars on the show field next to each other, and compare, the quality is the same, and without knowing the small differences, it is hard to tell them apart. Mid priced cars are just that, a Pierce Arrow is a very high quality hand built car. Greatly overbuilt and under stressed. The is a reason that Seagraves bought the rights and tooling for the 8 and V12 engines and that the engines were still available 30+ years later in the late '60s as a gasoline powerplants in the Seagraves firetrucks. Minor changes like two spark plugs per cylinder and insert rod bearings. How many engine designs lasted 40 years and the last 30 were for industrial and emergency vehicle applications? Are the Pierce Arrow cars heavy ? yes, Would I want to drive in city traffic in a big enclosed Pierce ? Not usually. I like my Pierces out on the open road, not playing parking-lot roulette. Just setting the record straight, GLong

Yes, it probably is Panasote, there are several versions, I'd contact the suppliers with photos of your top material. GLong

K8096: if your Packard has not had the carb off in 50 years, I'll recommend that you remove it and clean it thoroughly. That's a lot of years of gas drying out in the carb when stored, a lot of very small bits of crud getting through the filter and settling into the bottom of the float bowl.. If the accelerator pump is working correctly, then you only need to buy a gasket set for the carb. It is likely that at least one paper gasket will get torn when opening up the carb. On the EE carburetors, the bottom of the float bowl is about 3/8"-1/2" lower than the passageway that lets fuel into the main jets. What happens is this lower 'floor' acts like a sediment bowl, collecting bits of crud over the years. I've removed an amazing amount of stuff from an EE float bowl. You can do this clean out in the car, but it can be difficult to lean over the fender and sidemount spare. If it's an EE3 in a prewar Packard, it's a V12, isn't it ? That one is harder to clean on the car. If your fuel level in the gas tank is fairlly low, you can add Seafoam or similar products to the fuel. And it might be high enough of a concentration to be effective. I'd not waste the money on adding the cleaner to a full tank, the concentration is just too low to be effective. just my opinion. Where are you located ?? GLong

If your carburetor design has a vent tube in the intake throat, I'd use a syringe or possibly a small funnel and add a concentrated dose of SeaFoam or similar carb/fuel system cleaner to the float bowl, let it sit overnight, and run it some more, repeat a few times. Often this will clean out the smaller jet orifices. Since you said the car is running pretty good, I'd say you got very lucky, and the car sat with ethanol-free gasoline in it. If your carburetor [probably a Stromberg EE-22 or 23 ? ] does not have an air vent pipe in the inlet of the carb, just above the choke plate, then you might have to be a bit more creative, maybe remove the fuel line at the inlet of the carb and install a temporary fuel line and gravity feed some SeaFoam or other cleaner to the float bowl. IF YOU CHOOSE TO REMOVE THE FUEL LINE BE CAREFUL !! The float bowl is POTMETAL and will break easily !! One other possible 'fix' would be to remove the idle mixture screws and using an aerosol can of carb-cleaner, spray generously through the jet, replace the mixture screw to it's previous setting. [before removing the mixture screw, gently turn the screw in until it bottoms, counting the # of turns to allow you to return it to this setting when reinstalled] Start and run the car, it will run like it's flooded until the carb-cleaner is drawn into the engine and burnt. Then repeat this on the other idle mixture screw. Of course the obvious 'cure' is to remove the carb and thoroughly clean it, replace gaskets etc. But sometimes the in-fuel cleaners will do the job. Interesting story [to me at least] I bought a 1933 Pierce Arrow 836, Club Sedan that had sat with 'reformulated' gasoline in it for over 10 years, the fuel in the tank had evaporated down to a 2" deep layer of goo, much like permatex #2 gasket goop. The fuel pump would pump, and the carb was not completely clogged. Once I got the fuel tank cleaned, pump rebuilt, and the carb thoroughly cleaned, etc the car ran very well, with one exception: The inboard idle mixture screw was not anywhere near as sensitive to adjustment as the outboard mixture screw. The inboard was still partially clogged. What I mean is that at a slow idle speed, the outboard screw would have a very noticeable effect on the engine speed and smoothness with just a 1/4 turn left or right of the 'sweet spot'. The inboard mixture screw could be turned in or out about a full turn before a noticeable change could be detected.. and I could not get the engine to run rich enough or smooth as it should with the inboard mixture partially clogged like this. I re-rebuilt the carb, dunking it in some very strong carb dip tank chemicals, and it looked spotless, and I used 'tag wire' to fish through every passageway I could locate, and every jet had been removed, cleaned and inspected with a magnifying glass. But the inboard idle mixture was still partially clogged and not responsive to adjustment. So I just lived with a slightly rough idle for years in this car, I did locate a spare EE-3 carb but didn't install it before the car 'fixed itself'.. On a Pierce Arrow National meet in Bartlett NH, one of our tours was to Mt Washington, and the opportunity was offered to take our cars up the mountain. I couldn't resist.. So I took the '33 Pierce up the mountain road, 1st gear all the way, I had to stop a few times to let the car's fuel lines cool down, to stop the vapor lock, and then proceed on up the hill. Once at the top, we went through the gift shop etc, then proceeded on down the mountain. The decent was uneventful, just closed-throttle in first gear, using engine braking all the way, and a little wheel braking for some of the switchback turns. The only excitement was when the trans jumped out of gear in the middle of a turn, I seemed to have not enough hands for a moment there. At the bottom of the mountain, we rejoined most of the tour cars that had not gone up the mountain. As I parked the car, I noticed the engine was idling quite rough, much more so than before the run up and down Mt Washington.. I opened the hood and thought the engine was running very rich, the outboard idle mixture setting was still correct, it was in it's 'sweet-spot'.. but the inboard mixture screw took over 1/2 a turn in [leaner] to smooth out the engine, and surprise !! the engine idled smooth as glass. I was able to balance a nickel on it's side on the cylinder head. Apparently, descending the steep hill using closed-throttle engine braking for about 20-30 minutes had drawn so much fuel at much higher than normal manifold vacuum, that the fuel flow had finally after several years washed clean the idle passageway. And it's stayed clean ever since. GLong

I'd point out that your Lead Acid battery didn't survive the abuse of overcharging either. An optima is a very good battery, and is subject to damage just like a Lead Acid battery, but it might be damaged easier. I simply add the ammeter to my instrument scan, and after say 20 minutes of driving, I'll turn on the headlights to bring the charge rate to near zero. It's safer to have headlights on anyway, and the lights consume the excess charge rate. Another fix is to add internal voltage regulation using modern small electronics inside the generator cut-out box on your car. Personally I like Optimas. They can be put into and removed from the battery box under the floor boards of our 20's and 30's cars much easier and safer than a lead ACID battery. And they are lighter. I've not ruined any upholstery or clothing since I started using Optima batteries. GLong

You can use a wood dowel held to your ear as a stethoscope, What else is rotating when the engine is running? The distributor cam can 'chirp' if dry, or the Distributor bearings or bushings can be dry. or as mentioned above, a vacuum leak can often sound like a squeal. GLong

That's a great story: your latest collector car hunts YOU down!! Usually you have to do the hunting and searching !! Great buy, I'm sure you will enjoy it. GLong

The needs to be more testing done before determining what is causing the stalling. Usually, If a carb is getting irregular fuel flow, it will occasionally act up driving down the road.. at idle, the engine is using the least amount of fuel. So if you have a fuel delivery problem, it should show up driving down the road. My thoughts are a condenser or the coil getting hot and breaking down. Once it cools a bit, it works again. Get it to someplace that has some experience and ignition testing equipement. A good ignition analyzer will tell right away if it's an ignition problem especially since you seem to be able to duplicate the stalling. A fuel pump does not deliver fuel evenly, the fuel has to have a place to go, and if the float bowl is full, there will be no fuel flow until the float drops and the needle opens. Speaking of needles, it could possibly be a sticking rubber tipped float needle in the carb. Try tapping on the side of the carb with the handle of a screwdriver, [not a hammer ! ] and see if it starts back up. Our ethanol fuel can cause the rubber tip on the needle to get sticky. GLong.

I have inline fuel filters in the supply line to the vacuum tank in my cars. I like a location that is accessible without being on my back. Often I'm able to locate the filter under a front floorboard along side the frame. Out of sight, but accessible. I use clear plastic filters. I can lift up the floorboard and look at the filter quite easily. If there is crud in the filter, a new one is easy to replace with minimal fuss, and little gasoline spilled on my hands or car. The original sediment bowl will do an excellent job keeping the carb's fuel supply clean, but the inlet screen in the vacuum tank doesn't do enough for my way of thinking. And get enough crud in the vacuum tank, and it will stop working. GLong

Christy: Congratulations!! So glad to hear you have your car back on the road !! Now, how about a photo or two of you and your car?? We've got the 'thumbs up' pic, how about one of that very special car ? Did you get a 'report' back from the rebuilder saying what was found in the generator? Curiosity never ends. :-) Hi Rusty, yep I've done both, and many other methods, but I'd still rather rebuild a carb, or do a valve job on a head than wrestle with the brushes on some starters and generators. Some aren't too bad, some just miserable. If the geometry is right, I will slide the brush up in it's guide until the spring is not on the end of the brush, but pushing sideways on it, sort of 'wedging' it in the brush guide, then once the end cap is in place, just gently push each brush back in place, the springs snap over the end. This only works if the brush is long enough, spring the right shape and length etc, if so, this works very well. But still a pain. A set of picks to pull back on and manipulate the brushes is often a necessity. GLong

Vapor lock is usually formed in the suction side of a fuel system. Like from the fuel tank to the fuel pump, or fuel tank to the vacuum tank. The low pressure in line allows boiling or bubbles to form at lower temperatures. On many older cars, the fuel line from the tank needs to be relocated as far away from the exhaust system as possible. For a Vacuum tank car that is having running problems but the vacuum tank is full, that rarely would be vapor lock. since the fuel from the vacuum tank to the carburetor has a slight pressure from gravity. I would look into the temperature of the carburetor itself. Is there a way to control the heat from the exhaust manifold that was necessary when the car was built, due to lousy old fuel? Modern fuel, especially with 10% and more ethanol does not need much if any carb or manifold heating. I've figured out ways to isolate and insulate the exhaust manifold from the intake manifold with great results. The message stating the need for larger jetting with ethanol mixed gasoline is also a good point. With 27% ethanol, a low compression engine with only a gravity feed fuel supply from the vacuum tank to the carb's needle and seat, might be starving for enough fuel flow. But not vapor locking. Another thing to try: use steel fuel line from the Vacuum tank to the carburetor.. Steel will absorb or conduct heat slower than copper. Then slide a length of woven 'loom' over the steel fuel line before the last flare nut and rolling the flare on the end of the line. Make sure your float and needle and seat mechanism is not hanging up, and not allowing fuel into the float bowl. This mechanism can be affected by heat.. and it d*** well be affected by the cleaning effect that ethanol has on metal parts.. Too clean and not enough lubricity in the ethanol fuel will cause float mechanisms to stick. If your carburetor is too close to your exhaust pipe, wrap the exhaust with the woven fiberglass insulating wrap, often called 'header wrap'. this will greatly reduce the amount of heat radiating from the exhaust pipe. Hopefully one or more of the above suggestions will help with your poor running situation. GLong

Do you have the manual choke pushed all the way off when you leave the driveway? Or are you slowly pushing in on the choke knob? If this was a later car with an automatic choke I'd say the two blocks is long enough for the choke to have opened completely, and the carb's main jets are dirty and the carb is running way too lean, hence the backfiring. Assuming you have a manual choke, pull the knob out part way, providing about half choke.. see if some choke makes any difference in the poor running. Just a thought, GLong

With the caveat stating that since I have not seen, touched or worked on your car, from what I see, I don't think that dampener can come off just because some rubber-bonding failed. It looks like it is a metal-to-metal type of dampener, not a bonded rubber dampener. So I think you are safe to drive it to your upcoming meet. You might take a look at the damper while the engine is idling slowly. Look for any obvious wobble or out of round or off center of the large disc. Several of my Pierce Arrow engines have a damper inside the timing chain cover. It is lubricated by engine oil. The damper is a steel ring that is clamped to a flange installed on the end of the crankshaft. The ring is clamped to the flange with several stiff coil springs providing a steady amount of pressure, creating friction between the the disc and the flange. The dampening action is the ring slipping on the flange if there is strong enough of a vibration in the crankshaft and rotating masses. Your damper may be designed to slip where someone put the Blue Silicone sealant.. no way to know for sure without taking it off the car. Take care, have a great time at your meet and tours !! GLong

Christy: I apologize, now that I re-read my post it certainly was NOT meant to sound like it does to me now. I was trying to point out to Bob that I thought a brush swap would be a bit too much of a job for you. To put that comment in perspective, I usually do NOT look forward to removing an end cap from a generator or starter because I often find it needing even more than two sets of hands to reassemble. Those %%##$% brushes can be a real pain. In the interest of you not performing a task that is NOT needed: Did you try motoring the generator yet?? if it motors, it should work as a generator, and the problem with your charging system is then NOT in the generator. This thread has had several posts suggesting the motoring test, and several about a DIY brush change/internal inspection. The motoring test should be done first, because it answers the question about whether the brushes need replacing or the generator rebuilt. I've 'turned wrenches' much of my life, and have seen many a car/truck come into the shop with a new battery, a new starter, a new generator, and the customer says that it can't be fixed !! Only to find a corroded wire, or bad grounds etc.. I've seen many a car with $300 or more worth of new parts, when the actual repair was $50 or less for diagnosis time and a repair of a wire or dirty connection. What I would hope you are able to avoid putting a lot of extra time and effort into doing un-needed tasks, when a bit more back and forth with the members on the forum and this thread can, most likely help you find the actual problem, not just start rebuilding, installing new parts etc etc. Sorry again, I really did not intend to insult you. Only to help you get your Buick on the road again, GLong.

Very good description of the job to replace a set of generator brushes, and I agree Bob, that it is an easy job, but the Original Poster is not very experienced with working on cars. [My impression from his posts] I think taking the brush end-cap off a generator is way beyond his skill level. This brush replacement job is also best to have an extra set of hands to help hold parts/brushes etc in place while reassembling. Having a set of 'brush holders' is certainly not in everyone's tool box or on their workbench. I get the impression that the OP doesn't understand the need to look under the hood when the fan belt had been squealing for a few weeks. I think it is likely that the problem is just a loose fan belt.. it wouldn't squeal if there wasn't drag from the generator causing the belt to slip. Of course it could be the waterpump or fan causing the squealing as well. I guess we have to wait to see what the 'fix' was. GLong

With the pan and oil pickup tube and screen clean, you've done everything that can be done to make sure the pump won't have any restrictions on the intake/suction side. I think you are good to go for a few hundred thousand miles !! :-) GLong

Hmm, this is not the type of dampener I was visualizing. This does not look like it can come apart and do any damage without the bolt backing out and the big thick washer coming off ?? I can't see quite well enough to be sure. GLong

Take a pair of jumper cables, hook the negative to the body of the generator, I usually use one of the generator mounting 'ears'. Make sure the jumper cable clamp is making good contact on the generator. Make sure the generator pulley can turn freely, and is not draging on the workbench, ground or wherever you are performing this test. Then, take the positive cable clamp, and touch the copper piece on the jaw of the clamp [the electrical connection] to the larger of the two electrical connections on the generator. The generator should turn slowly like a motor. If not touch the cable clamp to the other connection. One of the two should make the generator turn as a motor. If the generator does motor, follow the directions stated in the previous post to check the brushes. The brushes are rectangular pieces of carbon, with a braided copper wire molded into the carbon. There is a spring, usually made of wire, that pushes on the end of the carbon brush, exerting some force to keep the carbon block against the copper commutator on the rotating armature. Check to see if each of the brushes does in fact have a little bit of spring pressure being exerted on the brush. If the brush has worn down a lot, then the spring will be pushing against the guide that the brush rides inside, instead of pushing on the brush itself.. This is noticable when you cannot see any of the carbon brush sticking out of the top of the guide, but rather, recessed deep down into the guide. Since you mentioned that the fan belt has been squealing for weeks, it is quite possible that it is the culprit: the belt was slipping so much that it could not spin the generator well enough to generate electricity to charge the battery.. I would buy a new fan belt, if it has been squealing for weeks, it is likely to be bad, worn, glazed and cracked. They don't cost much, just put a new on on. While the fan belt is off, grab the fan blade, and lift up and down on the waterpump shaft, it is what the fan is bolted to. If the tip of the fan blades move more that about 1/8"-1/4", then it is likely that your water pump bearings are bad. and when they allowed the fan belt to loose tension, then the fanbelt started slipping on the generator pulley. If the fan spins freely with a flick of your finger, and doesn't have a lot of free play, put the generator back on, with a new fan belt, set the tension on the belt so that you cannot turn the generator pulley by hand, the belt should be tight enough that from the generator to the waterpump [fan] pulley, usually about 16", a firm push down or firm pull on the belt in the center of the 16" of fan belt only results in a deflection of about 1/2" to 1", any more and I'll bet you can turn the generator pulley and the belt will slip. Let us know what works out for you. Did you ask the auto parts store who in your area rebuilds generators and starters?? I would NOT recommend trying to remove the end cap of the generator in order to change the brushes, it takes a lot of finesse and often two sets of hands and some specially bent pieces of wire to pull and hold the brushes brushes against their springs while you reassemble the end of the generator. I'd suggest finding that elusive rebuild shop to change the brushes and lube the bearings, inspect for bad fields or armature, and clean or turn the commutator. You could also take your starter into the autoparts store, and have them LOOK at your starter, and get a replacement that will physically fit and work. Good Luck, and let us know what happens and how it works out. GLong

Show a photo of the mounting location on the engine. And the mounting pad, bolt pattern etc. I have several delco generator/distributor combinations that were used on the Series 80 and 81 Pierce arrow 1925-1928 engines. I have NO idea if one would physically fit or be close to what you need. The photo below is of a 1925 Series 80 engine in a very rare factory produced right hand drive car. GLong

I don't think the die would be able to handle the forces of forming the corners of the brass cover. If you made your brass blanks with cut corners, so the die was only folding the sides down, then it might hold up. You'd have to solder the corners of the cover, probably NOT what you want. I'd think the you could make a die from aluminum, and with proper lube on it for the actual forming process, it should hold up for a run of 30 or so covers.. If it's not a lot of work, I'd still try the plastic products. If you enclose the outside of the female die tightly in a strong form, it might work, but I'm thinking it will split or the male portion will crumble at the corners. Make sure the brass is soft, not work hardened any, anneal it first to be sure. I'd like to know if your plastic die will work, looking forward to your feedback. GLong

New, close clearances and just a film of oil in a gear pump will pull/suck oil up from the pan, But give it thin oil that drained down, loose clearances, so much more than a 'film' of oil is needed to seal gaps, and add in a bunch of thick sludge in the supply tube or on the pickup screen. Then you have a scenario where the pump would do fine, at least as good as it did the last time it ran, but it just can't develop the suction to pull oil through the clogged or restricted pickup tube and screen. It's definitely good that you now have a mostly rebuilt pump, with much closer clearances. But, my money is on the thought that if you had just cleaned the pan, the pickup tube and screen, and put a little thick oil or vaseline on the gears, it would have drawn up the oil, and worked as well as before. Al: I've often been amazed at how worn an oil pump can be, and still develop respectable oil pressure. It makes me think about a nice tight-clearance pump, and slightly thick oil or cold oil,, the pressure the pump can create must be measured in the !00's of psi. The pressure-relief valves or pressure regulators on our cars have a real job to to on a cold start up !! I remember an aftermarket high volume oil pump I put on a VW engine in a Dune Buggy, it would overwhelm the oil pressure relief valve, and would 'balloon' the spin on oil filter. The first time I saw that I was really shook up, thinking that it could have split the filter canister, and dumped all the oil in about 5 seconds. and then my VERY expensive crankshaft, camshaft, etc would have been trashed in moments.. GLong