Popping noise when turning the wheel

[Beemon]

So I've developed this popping noise when turning the steering wheel a full turn, or just past center. There is no bind, drag link is free and clear and everything is lubed. Fluid system is also full, and free of noise (whirring, whining, etc). I'm thinking it's the steering box, but I'm not sure what would cause popping? Perhaps improper ball pre-load? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Fr. Buick]

I have no idea how similar the 54 suspension would be, but I had an occasional pop that turned out to be the big lower outer bushing getting loose in the spindle support.  It was working itself loose enough that I had to replace the bushing and the spindle support.

 

Get under the car with a flash light, and get somebody to wiggle the hell out of the tire.  Then do it again with the car up and supported on the frame.  Look and listen for anything loose.

 

Good luck!

[Beemon]

Nothing is loose on the wheels, I checked before I left for school. I had heard popping before, but it wasn't this bad.

 

This video is from last year, but could this much play cause some type of slop that would degenerate something in the box? (video is a year old, after I got my rebuilt box back).

 

[KongaMan]

Could be apples and oranges, but I had a similar situation in a different vehicle.  Turned out one of the inner tie rod ends was completely shot.  Maybe take a look under the car while someone is rocking the wheel back and forth.  If you can't see anything obvious, grab the linkage to see if you can locate it, and stick your head in close so you can isolate it.  Your hands are great for this, as you can feel vibrations and knocks that you can't see.

[Pete Phillips]

Bad wheel bearing?

 

[Beemon]

Wouldn't a bad wheel bearing have some play and also make noise while driving? I inspected and packed my wheel bearings before leaving, the sound was there before, just intensified now.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history)

[old-tank]

You need a helper to turn the wheel while you look at and feel the components top and bottom during the pop.  You may need to drop the pitman arm to isolate.

WAG: worn idler arm bushings or broken springs in the center link.

[buick man]

… good advice  that was given above … drop the pitman arm and make it easy be buying a compressible pitman arm remover tool … this will then isolate the steering box … have someone turn the steering wheel as per your directions with the car running and with the motor off … then hand re-install the pitman arm onto the box without the cross link attached and use the arm to grab onto and attempt to move it back and forth as well noting any free play or knock … then sherlock it from there ….  item by item ….

[Beemon]

I'll get on this tomorrow. I rebuilt the drag link myself year before last, so all components there are new. I also replaced idler arm bushing, too, along with tie rod ends. The only thing I didn't play with in the suspension was the A-arm bushings and king pins. They didn't squeak after lubing and the king pins were still pretty tight (no play as far as I can tell). Good thing I brought my toys/tools, but I think I left my pitman arm puller at home.. I had some time to crawl under the car by myself today to make a visual inspection and the bottom of the gear box is wet around the seal, but not dripping, just wet.

 

Also, is that amount of play in a steering box normal for this era?

[KongaMan]

Autozone or O'Reilly's will loan you a puller for free.

[60FlatTop]

Be careful with that word "play", especially around engineers or future employers. They will denigrate your work. Always use terms like work, investigate, repair, troubleshoot, and the like. Never minimize the value of your efforts.

 

One can play IN a car, but not WITH a car.

Bernie

Edited September 25, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[buick man]

… yes but I believe that year of box has a means to tighten up the drag in the worm gear assembly for acceptable rebound … take a look at your shop manual …  If you are not using fluid at discernible rate we wouldn't worry about the bottom having a wet look happening … if you isolate all components it may very well be inside your box after all like some internal lash shims or the like … keep us posted 

[Guest]

Sometimes if the adjustment at the steering box is used to compensate for more wear than designed for the portion of the mechanism that is most used(most wear) which is the part that moves in the center of the travel while rolling down a straight rode making small adjustments with the steering wheel. If you can envision these parts getting a smaller diameter from the constant wear, then "tightening up" the slack in the loose portion. When you turn the wheel you force the steering onto the less worn larger diameter components with power assist perhaps with a loud "pop". Just something to consider as a possibility from a guy who could only afford "well worn" vehicles mostly. Good luck! Remember, advice is usually worth what you paid 4 it! Heh, heh.

[Beemon]

I didn't pull the pitman arm, but using my trusty stethoscope, it is coming from within the box. There are only two adjustments on the box; the top adjustment seems to not change anything and the other adjustment requires pre-loading the ball bearings on assembly. I guess I'll live with for now, but I'm 2 for 2 on shoddy steering component rebuild at this point.

I've been going over the schematics, and I just cannot wrap my head around what would cause a pop in there. Maybe the balls are getting hung up and are forced to move after a certain threshold is reached? It only pops right after rotating past top dead center. The other 359 degrees are noise free.

[Bhigdog]

43 minutes ago, Beemon said:

It only pops right after rotating past top dead center. The other 359 degrees are noise free.

 

Just a thought. The vast majority of the time the car is driven the wheel is at TDC with constant small corrections. Said constant corrections concentrating a wear point at TDC.

Just a thought................Bob

[Beemon]

Right, but I paid to have my box professionally rebuilt by a nationwide known rebuilder. I would assume that 30 years of wear would have been corrected for in said rebuild. It's coming from the center portion so I don't think it's the pressure valve... maybe a piston ring? Thrust bearing? Worm shaft?

[old-tank]

Try with the P/S belt off.

[Guest]

Hey Ben

 

      Sounds like you would like a rebuilder to re-rebuild a steering sector? If U can work it out, I have a ps sector from a 56 Super for a core that could be had. I also live about a 45 min drive from Lares inc, located in Cambridge, MN. They post about events at the business, etc. If they are your rebuilder, might be good 2 have a loco, no wait local, advocate. I would think they want good pr with the Buick fans as customers. My friend had his ps from a 1952 Super redone and then the ps pump they worked on was leaking and came apart. They fixed it and I believe no charge was the price. Hope everything works out. They should have another core in stock. I think they are buying every steering system out of the Buicks at French Lake Auto! Almost all the fenders have "gear out" written on them, so, 2+2 =5 or so there! Anywho, let me know if I can help out somehow if those are the guys. Good Luck!

[Beemon]

4 minutes ago, 2carb40 said:

My friend had his ps from a 1952 Super redone and then the ps pump they worked on was leaking and came apart.

 

I'm of the mind set that if they can't do it right the first time, what makes you think they'll get it right the second time? It's against forum rules to talk badly on businesses, so I'll just leave it at that. Also they should be called resealer instead of rebuilder, because I think that's all I got.

[Guest]

Understood! Just don't like seeing lax integrity happening. Lemme know if you condem the box in Ur car cuz I got this one on a frame clip, couple o bolts and it's off. Just don't know how I'd test it? Even just shipping and a little is too much if it turns out it's no good.

[Beemon]

Thanks Greg, I've got a line on 4 of them if its to be believed 57 is the same box. Still have yet to pull the belt off to confirm if valve or rack. Will check tomorrow. 

[1956322]

As far as I've been told 57 is different.. Don't know if it's different but still usable..