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Bringing Dad's 1951 Roadmaster Back!


Guest timinbovey

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Guest Ryanintopeka

He's done more and not updated....bad!

He realized the rear drums he got are too shallow when bolted on the hub so he's trying to get that situation sorted out. He tried twice to get a hold of someone at Kanter on the phone with no luck. Front bearings have been repacked and the front brakes are all on.

I'd say I was jealous but I've got a 99 Jeep to deal with...haha

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Guest timinbovey

You can see why I was surprised to learn the front stabilizer is supposed to be straight! (yes, that's the break at the left hand "corner") It's obviously been broken for a long long time.

Promise, a better update tomorrow.

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Tim in Bovey

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Guest timinbovey
Looks like someone once tried to tow the car by the stabilizer bar.

That's exactly what I thought!

Later today -- the brake and exhaust update. Going around and around with Kanter over rear brake drums that are wrong. They're too wide and snug up against the backing plate when installed. Last word from them was "It shows here that we sent you the right ones". But earlier he also insisted the car had 2 1/2" brake shoes, too. Been buying parts from them since I was in high school in the 70's, with never an issue about a part not being right -- so we'll see what happens today. I contacted them MONDAY and here's Thursday -- nearly a week of working time has ticked by, with no resolution proposed. For those who might know these things, the drums they sent are number BD 2010.

Tim in Bovey

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest timinbovey

Nothing like having your own Son egging you on, eh? OK, here's an update.

Kanter has told me I can return the rear brake drums that don't seem to fit right. I ordered and received a pair of NOS replacement drums from Bob's Automobilia, they're on, they fit, they look nearly exactly like the ones that came off the car. The brakes are done, bled, and working. Of course it's not on the ground yet, and I will do some final adjusting of the shoes before the car hits the garage floor again. But except for adjustments I'm done with the brakes.

Got a new exhaust system from an outfit called Classic Exhaust Inc. Aluminized steel and only a couple hundred bucks shipped. Wrestled with that for several hours yesterday. Got the old system out with much less trouble than I was anticipating. The new pipe off the manifold fit perfect, and the new muffler fit just fine (they reproduce the long, round Buick muffler -- it's not some general replacement unit). Then just about drove myself insane trying to figure out how to get the next piece on, from the muffler over the axel. They sent that in two pieces with the joint at the top of the apex over the axel. I can't for the life of me get that pipe and the muffler to align straight enough to slide it in. I did have a hell of a time getting the old one out, too. I'm seriously considering one of three things. Removing what's done and starting at the back of the car and working forward, to see if I can get it all together. Or getting a short piece of pipe to connect to the back of the muffler (only need about 8 inches to clear the opening through the frame) then removing 8 inches from the tail pipe piece and attaching it to the short pipe (length would come out right, it's the ability to get the end to the muffler in position with all the weird bends etc on the rest of it hitting various parts of the car) or last option -- putting in a hunk of flex pipe off the muffler to the back half tail pipe section, which I really don't want to do. I believe what I'm actually going to do is pick up a short piece of pipe that I can connect to the muffler then through the frame, then adjust the length of the big pipe to fit and just piece it together there. It's making me crazy. I laid under that car in 40 degree weather all day yesterday trying to find a way to get it to go on, and it won't.

In the meantime, a stabilizer bar should be on the way next week from a guy in California with a parts car. Once that's on (already got the old one and all it's mangled links removed) the brake shoes are given final adjustment, and the darn exhaust is pieced together, I just might put the tires on it and get it off the jacks.

One question -- I noticed the T fitting for the rear brakes (where the rubber hose connects from the line from the master cylinder, and splits off to the two lines to the rear wheels) is not connected in any way to the car. It looks like there should be a bolt above (it's kind of a "C" bracket on the fitting) that holds it to the frame. Is this just a nut/bolt, or is that fitting threaded? Didn't get to continue investigating while sweating at the exhaust system yesterday.

So there is your update!

Tim in Bovey

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Tim, if it is anything like my 55's the tailpipe was shipped in two pieces to avoid oversize shipping charges. Also the only way to install as one piece or two pieces: the body has to be jacked up with the axle hanging. I never had trouble years ago when I used a bumper jack.:eek:

There is also the possibility that it is wrong.

Willie

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I was going to say that the last time I did my own tail pipes on my 56, I unbolted the rear axle spring and shock so I could get more space to twist the passengers side pipe on. You may even have to unhook the panhard bar too.

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Guest shadetree77

When I had the exhaust put on my '52 Special the guys had some trouble getting that rear piece on too. I remember they had to twist and turn quite a bit before they got it to slide through. But they got it eventually. This may be different on the larger series cars. On the brake fitting, mine is a rectangular brass block with an L-shaped bracket on the end. The rubber hose comes into one side of the block and the two rear brake lines come out one of the other sides. The bracket attaches to a spot on the either the torque tube or one of the strut rods. I can't remember. I do remember that is is attached with a small, fat screw. Not a nut and bolt. I can take pictures if you need them. Again, this may be different on your Roadmaster. Let me know if I can help.

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This is a great story,Congrats. I have some concerns as I also got one running after it sat for 20+ years. The oil in my '50 had turned to grease. The oil pan had spider holes in it from condensation(water) sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. The oil had dried in the rocker arm assembly and I had to take it all apart and cleaned it so it oiled the valvetrain. I know you want to get it up and going but don't get in a hurry or it may bite ya in the arse. Please look at my pics of oil in my oil pan pics. These pics are in my photos under "oldwood". Call me anytime if ya have questions.

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Guest timinbovey

Finally had a day to work on the car. Progress has been made (slow but sure)

Got the exhaust system to go together correctly. Lets just say things are not always what they appear to be. All parts fit fine once I stopped trying to put it together backwards :0) It's in, but not all securely clamped yet as I want to hang the tailpipe end and then adjust for best clearance before clamping. The pivot at the muffler and at the junction over the axel allow for quite a bit of movement so seeking out the best position.

Mangled front stabilizer bar has been replaced thanks to a forum member who sent me the part from his parts ca in California. Very reasonable price, considering he had to remove it, pack it and ship it :) It's on, new bushings, new links, etc.

Also did some more adjusting to the brakes. Decided too that the lower control arm bumpers are mangled to bits. One is split in half, the other is mashed flat and about 5/6ths of it is missing. So, guess I'll order up a couple. I keep finding things to replace that are preventing me from getting this bugger back on the ground!

Hopefully tomorrow I'll finish up the exhaust if nothing else. Spent last weekend painting the interior of my folks house (the one they moved out of -- its a long story) and this Thursday it's off to Kansas to visit my Son and his family through Monday, so no work to get done over the weekend. Won't be long it's gonna be winter up here. We've already had nights where temps have dropped into the teens.

Tim in Bovey

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
Guest timinbovey

Just so ya'll didn't think I fell off the face of the Earth or something! Winter snuck up on me and hit me right in the butt. Been swamped with family stuff and the onset of cold weather (It's 11 degrees as I type this) so I haven't got anything else done. The exhause is still under the car waiting to be positioned and clamped, and the front suspension rubber stops are waiting to be put in.

I did manage to get the car title transferred from Dad to me (first time since he bought it the title has changed owners) and didn't even have to pay tax, as we managed to do the transfer with the car as a gift from father to son! He has a collector plate on it that he got 20+ years ago but I found a 1950 plate - I'm assuming it's the original from when he bought the car - under the mat on the ledge in the trunk. It's in good shape so I'm planning on registering it, and using it when it's back on the road (we can do that here on collector cars).

Other than that just waiting for spring and hoping I can get my Son up here at some point to pull off a marathon session to get it back on the road at least, so we know where we're at on the rest of the mechanicals.

In the meantime, everyone have a good holiday!

Tim in Bovey

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Guest timinbovey

I really should proofread before posting! I found a 1951 plate, not 1950! So much for warmer weather -- dropped to 12 below zero this morning.

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Guest JohnUSAF

I need to edit my post. I own almost an identical 51 Roadmaster. The sweepspear is right,

Other but the real difference is someone appears to have put a set of 1952 "tail fins" on the car. I have had my 51Roadmaster for two years. I located it in Central Utah and my son and daughter bought it and shipped it to Kingwood Texas. I am within 2 months of complete restoration and have completed new paint (Verde green with sky Grey top), complete exterior rechrome and 800-15 General dual 90 4 inch whitewalls, and all new interior from the metal up. Please Print More Me, where you are now, we need to talk. My

car has 35K actual miles and is totally untouched mechanically. Please PM me. JOHNUSAF.

your 52 has an interesting side sweep-spear. At the back door it curves back to the fron of the car like a 52, and, also has a horizontal extension that runs out over the rear wheel well... like a 51.

Question for the 51/52 experts, is this an early 52 using the 51 side sweep spear trim?

Edited by JohnUSAF (see edit history)
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Guest timinbovey

I'm in Bovey, Minnesota -- up north, not far from Grand Rapids, Minnesota or about 80 miles NW of Duluth. 30 miles SE of Hibbing. If that helps! Getting down to 20 or even near 30 below zero is not uncommon here in the coming months. Too darn cold to be out in the garage!

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  • 5 months later...
Guest timinbovey

Wow, I haven't been back here in a while. Darn winter anyway! I've gotta buckle down and get to work on the Roadmaster. STILL working on the underside of the car. Yuck. OK, when I left off last fall I was putting the exhaust in. I didn't have much of the old system to go by, as it has pretty much rusted away and what was left was crumbling mangled pipes. I purchased a "exact replacement" stock system. the pipe off the manifold and the muffler were pretty much no-brainers. (Really? Just a flat gasket between the manifold and exhaust pipe?) Now I'm having trouble piecing together the tailpipe. It came in two pieces (I assume to facilitate shipping) and since I didn't have a look at the original pipe I'm not clear on how it's supposed to go. anyone have a photo or two of a '51 Roadmaster exhaust, say, shot from the back of the car on the floor? I couldn't find anything online, and the manual doesn't really help. Does the "hump" pretty much go straight up over the axel, or does it ankle off to one side? The two pieces fit together at the top of the hump. Between being able to pivot at the muffler, and pivot where the two sections come together, it's difficult for me to determine what's right. I can make it fit OK, but I wonder about clearance once it's back on the ground if I don't get it right.

As a side note, we nearly lost Dad at New Years. Basically he suffered a mild stroke during the night and fell on his way to the bathroom. We just thought he fell (he has very weak legs) and got him back into bed. by morning he was weaker and gurgling a lot. Hospital identified small stroke that affected his gag reflex and he inhaled fluid into his lungs all night. Bad pnuemonia. We got "that call". the one that says they don't think he'll make it through the night and we should gather the family and head to the hospital. They couldn't clear his lungs and he wasn't responding to any other efforts. We did the whole goodbye thing, and sat in the room listening to him gurgle while he was very drugged. We discussed final arrangements. Finally at 2 AM decided we were all at peace with the situation, and went home to get a little sleep. By 8 AM the next morning he had a miraculous recovery. Fever was down, lungs were clearing, and he was asking the nurses for bourbon. during the night I told the doctors about the Buick and showed them photos on my iPhone, and told them we were really hoping to get Dad out for one more ride, and now it looked like that wouldn't happen. Somehow, someway, it seems we have another chance! Every Doctor in the place was amazed that he bounced back. He's recovered from most of the stroke effects. He's 85, says his goal is to make it to 90. I'm hoping he can do it, but I have my doubts.

Anyway, that's the short version of a long story. Gotta get to work on the car!

Tim in Bovey

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Glad to hear your still kicking. Sounds like a tough old guy. Similar thing happened to my Dad a couple of years ago, but he didn't pull through.

Funny, I was thinking about this thread the other day and wondering about you and the '51 Roadmaster.

Keith

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Guest shadetree77

Good to hear from you again Tim. Glad to know you are digging out from under the snow and getting back to working on the Roadmaster. Sorry to hear about your Dad's troubles. Certainly glad to know he pulled through. My Dad had a heart attack at work a few weeks back and was in the hospital for a few days. He seems to be doing fine and is recovering well. Very scary and very stressful when loved ones have serious health issues.

On a lighter note, I can take some pictures of my exhaust for you. Mine is a Special but I would bet that the exhaust systems are probably similar. I'll try to get those for you today. I'll be working on my brake lines again today. I'm bending all new lines for it. Definitely not my idea of a great time. Bending lines by hand is slow going!

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Guest shadetree77

Tim, hopefully these help. The axle is out of mine right now but you can imagine where it goes by where the springs are hanging.

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Guest timinbovey

Perfect! Exactly what I needed. Thanks a bunch! Can't get any work done this coming week, heading down to Topeka to meet our new grand daughter. Hopefully get back to work on it shortly after our return.

Tim in Bovey

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Guest timinbovey

OH, I forgot, I found a couple more photos with the Buick in them from back when Dad and Mom were driving it. Black and white prints! Yup, that's Mom standing in front of it!

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Tim in Bovey

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest timinbovey

Finally got back to work on the car this weekend. I'm declaring the brakes and exhaust done. At least, as done as can be without putting the car on the ground and driving it a bit to wear in and re-adjust the brakes, but that may be a while yet. I still think the exhaust may have some issues (or not) when it's on the ground. Hard to visualize clearances around shocks and springs when it's in the air. But, we'll see. At least it's all in there and if it needs tweaking it's easy enough to loosen a few clamps and rotate parts later. The brakes are solid and working, everything in the system from pedal to wheels is new.

Odd thing, however. I did put the wheels/tires on it, anticipating putting it back on the ground soon. I noticed the drivers rear tire is much closer to the fender than the tire on the passengers side. Like, by a couple inches, I'd say (I really need to go measure). How do I account for that? I know all the rims are the same width and size, although I didn't check offset, but at a thoughtful glance they all look the same. Everything appears to be "straight". Gonna have to check into that.

I'm going to add a modern see through filter to the fuel line, then I need to connect the line from the tank to the pump, and see what happens. Now, I know smarter people have tanks cleaned before using them, but I've had good luck over the years with old cars, and have never had to remove a gas tank for cleaning or repair. Gas was removed before storage years ago, and it's been stored inside all these years, so I'm hoping for the best, and that the extra filter will catch any gunk before it gets any further, and I can visually see any trouble through the clear filter. I was hoping to do that today, but got involved in a bunch of other projects so that got moved to the backburner.

The best news is, for now, I'm not working UNDER the car.

Any thoughts about (eventually) bypassing the accelerator starter and using a normal start button hidden under the lower lip of the dash? Remember, I'm not shooting for authentic in any way, but at this point for a driver (it could easily be switched back). Just doesn't seem like a good idea to me to start with the gas. I know it works, and I know they did it for years, but I don't like it.

Tim in Bovey

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When you remove the weight of the car from the rear end, the panhard bar (or whatever you want to call it) pulls the rear toward one side. Once you set it back on the ground, it will sit true again. It is normal.

I don't see a problem with starting the car with the gas pedal. What are your concerns?

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When you remove the weight of the car from the rear end, the panhard bar (or whatever you want to call it) pulls the rear toward one side. Once you set it back on the ground, it will sit true again. It is normal.

Correct. Everybody freaks out about this once in their Buick ownership years.

I don't see a problem with starting the car with the gas pedal. What are your concerns?

Like Dale said, it's your car... BUT that is a cool feature that you can amaze your friends and random kids with. Really, it's almost a theft-deterrent at this point. I have never had a problem with any gas pedal start car. If you are having problems, then fixing them is much easier than drilling holes in your dashboard and installing a starter button and rigging wires.

Just sayin'...

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Guest timinbovey

The '51 now runs as a self contained car! Added a see through inline fuel filter for extra safety and cleanliness, hooked up the fuel line from the tank, poured in two gallons of non-ethanol premium (here we're forced to have ethanol in the gas unless you're buying it for a small engine or classic car, some stations have special pumps for this). Charged the battery a bit (it's been sitting idle since last fall) and after a few cranks and small spritzes of starter fluid it runs off it's OWN gas tank (as opposed to the tank on the floor under the front bumper). I seemed to notice more tapping under the valve cover (near the center) than I heard when we had it running for a few minutes last year. Let it idle for a bit, then shut her down and did a complete leak check. Everything looks secure, no leaks, gas, oil, water or anything else (I think everything that can drip out of the Dynaflow leaked out over the winter). Radiator built up pressure, etc. Started right up again without the starting fluid and the tapping went away and it idled nice and smooth. Sure is a lot quieter with an entire exhaust system on it! Lots of smoke from the exhaust however, blue and stinky! I'm sure this is going to be a candidate for a rebuild at some point, but for now I'm sure it's burning off 40+ years of storage oil, etc. I put it in drive (It's still off the floor) and the drivers rear wheel went around, and at idle the speedo showed me about 10-12 mph. Which means the transmission at least transmits some power, and the speedo works. Applying the brake actually stopped the wheel. Passengers side didn't move, but I gave the tire a shove with my foot and it's clear that the brake is adjusted TOO tight! So, there's the first adjustment due. Won't be long and I'll take her off the jacks. We're hoping soon to at least be able to get it out of the garage and wash it. Years of grime and dust on it!

Obviously the accelerator starter worked just fine, as it did before. I think my issue with that system is lack of simplicity. I hate extra doodads needed to make a simple things happen. All we need to do is crank the starter, now we've got extra switches, wires and a cut out involved. I really like to simplify, but we'll see how it goes. My 1958 Edsel just about drove me nuts with all it's electric gee-gaws used to make simple things happen.

Anyway -- PROGRESS!

Tim in Bovey

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...Obviously the accelerator starter worked just fine, as it did before. I think my issue with that system is lack of simplicity. I hate extra doodads needed to make a simple things happen. All we need to do is crank the starter, now we've got extra switches, wires and a cut out involved. I really like to simplify, but we'll see how it goes. My 1958 Edsel just about drove me nuts with all it's electric gee-gaws used to make simple things happen.

Tim in Bovey

I might point out that at best, all you would be doing is switching one switch for another. In both cases the automatic cut out from the generator circuit will be enabled, and in the case of the gas pedal starter switch, this is simply a ball bearing with vacuum applied. It does not seem that you would gain much simplicity exchanging the original starter switch.

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