Guest Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I already know that I am going to get slammed on this one, but please hear me out first:I own a vehicle whose engine has siezed. After removing all parts, sand blasting, cleaning etc., and after 2 years of frustration searching, using forums, ebay, swap meets etc. I cannot find the necessary rare parts to restore the engine. I do have a complete drivetrain that I could use to swap into the vehicle. (Chevy 350/TH350/10 bolt Chevy)This is an age old question: swap and drive or wait more years and eventually get lucky (if someone else doesn't outbid me on ebay)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketDude Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 What kind of car are you talking about, and what engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 1929 Pontiac 6 cylinder 629. Need head/oil pan gaskets, pistons (two cracked), rings, connecting rods (3 cracked), bearings(trashed) and bolts(rusted), valves etc. Tried Oakland, Ford and Chevy from the same year(s) and they do not match. Kanter does not have a matching engine rebuild kit. The V8 350/TH350/10 bolt are re-built, ready, and I've been staring at them in the garage for 2 years. I already have everything ready, but can't bring myself to do it just yet. Now looking for some advice if I should "operate" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 PLEASE! Paint it something other than orange install it and enjoy driving the thing. Life is way to short to worry about the small things. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Can't believe that this car is so rare that there are no parts donor engines anywhere. How about egge.com for rebuild pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Layden B: egge.com "only" has the pistons/rings ($529.84 for 6!), Gasket Set ($323.00!!), valve guides ($137.76!!!) and the valves/springs ($371.52!!!!). So that's $1,362.12 and I am still missing the connecting rods, rod bearings, and bolts. At those prices I am surprised that egge doesn't have enough GOLD left to make them from. Nobody said that our hobby is cheap, but be realistic! They shouldn't wonder why most people just let them rust in the junk yards as opposed to saving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 How about replacing the engine/trans with a more common flat head 6/trans? At least you would have the appearance and performance of the original car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketDude Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 To me, it would depend on the condition of the car. If it is original and in super condition, spend the money to keep it original..! If the car is an old shell that is in the same condition as the engine, go for it, burn rubber..... I love hot rods, got my start there, but like the old saying goe, "it's only original once!". Any oldie that can be saved, should be saved. If you turn it into a hot rod, you just increased the value of the other survivors ..... Have to admit though, those are wicked prices you're quoteing... But spend it and enjoy it, or the kids will get it all .... A couple of grand for an original, new engine isn't much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 You may want to place an engine wanted ad on a Hot Rod / Street Rod site, who knows maybe someone yanked a running engine out of a Rod project. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlh61olds Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I am wondering if the Olds from that year might be a match. I think I know where 1928 & a 1929 engines are that might be available.Good luck, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlh61olds Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Maybe the Oldsmobile engine is a match. I know of a 1928 and a 1929 that may be available.Good luck, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I think you could use the Olds if you had the engine bellhousing clutch and transmission. There are lots of 29/30 Pontiac engine parts on ebay. Did you say you don't have rods or do they just need to be rebabbited. In my humble opinion the Pontiac is a much superior engine to the Olds. A very good friend of mine had a 29 Olds and we travelled lots together and usually I could out run him on both the straight away and on the hills. By the way EGGE's parts are excellent. I have their pistons, rings and springs and have had no trouble in over 250,000 miles. Valvesfrom a 302 I 6 GMC engine fit but the stems are .040 OS and you need to change the seat angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtbaron Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I'm a renegade around here, but how about a late model 6 in a restorod.........try not to butcher anything and if you ever find an original 6 you can change it back. Gonna have to go easy on the throttle if your keeping the gennie brakes and rear though....you might want to change everything from the springs up, and save the original power train parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Tinindian,Forgive me if I'm about to ask a "heretical" question, but would there be any drivetrain interchangeability between the '29-'30 Pontiac and the '29 - '31 Chevrolet ?Or were the divisions really quite distinct in all aspects back then ?There are certainly a lot of first-generation Stove-bolt Chevy sixes still kicking around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Put in the 350, paint it silver and keep the hood closed. (Just dont let the blower stick out through the hood!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put in the 350, paint it silver and keep the hood closed. (Just dont let the blower stick out through the hood!) </div></div>Uh, does the width of the V8 even allow you to close the hood? Here's a thought - how about a late model Vortec 4.2 liter inline six, as found in the Chevy Trailblazer et al? Better fit, still an I6, late model EFI driveability, and you get Dare-to-be-Different style points? I know this doesn't make use of your existing SBC, but most engine swaps result from "I've got this car and this engine" as opposed to figuring out what the right combination really ought to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cullen Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Post a picture of the car you're starting with and then we can really give you a hard time about hacking it up! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I went with Egge for my Zephyr V12 parts, they aren't cheap, but they are of excellent quality. Your original can be rebuilt, sometimes it takes a little creativity with adapting and re-machining parts, etc. But if the car is decent, go stock. Hotrod builders usually have sources for take-off original parts. If worst comes to worst, don't just stick a SBC into it. Look for a flathead 6, how about a straight 8? Zephyr V12? blue flame 6? Packard Flattie? there are tons of possibilities, just don't be in so much of a hurry that all you can see is 350/350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Stick the 350 in it and drive it, it will cost you far less than the price of the parts you mentioned to rebuild the stock six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 In a word No. 26-early 28 Pontiac and Chev used the same transmission and differential but with different gear ratios. The 4 cyl chev differential was not strong enough so the late 28 - 32 Pontiac used a hotckiss driveshaft and an Oakland differential (was also used in some 29-33 GMC trucks as long as the used Pontiac engines, the other ones used either Olds or Buick engines). Otherwise the only parts that were the same were things like front wheel bearings, timing cover seal, pilot bearing and transmission but with the rear extension changed to accomadate the hotchkiss driveline. You could probably put a 30 Chev engine and differential in your car but why would you go from a full pressure short stroke (relatively by todays standards [incidentally Pontiac was the first commercially produced short stroke engine]) engine for an engine with splash lubrication for the rods. Also a Pontiac of this vintage dosn't leak oil like a Chev and will run all day on the highway at 50-55MPH. Mine has 480,000 miles on it, is my daily driver and to keep out of the way (of modern freeway traffic) on the highway last week I was cruising along at over 60 MPH for about 50 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 A 350 fits beautifully under the hood. You don't need to touch the firewall or the steering box but you sure need to box the frame. If it were mine I might consider putting a proper PONTIAC V8 under the hood seeing as I already have an original 30 Pontiac. It would look great with bobbed rear fenders and 20" 10 or 12 spoke cast wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Thanks for all of the replys. Don't stop....keep them coming!!!Tin Indian: got any pictures of your '30? Would love to see them including the engine bay.Here is got to be the prettiest '30 Pontiac I've seen (no offense Tin Indian):http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/pont3001.htmIt's rodded, so that is where the initial idea came from. I also saw a rodded '27 at the NSRA Nationals is Richmond with a BB 455 Pontiac. (it sure looked like a 350 Chevy to me, but I didn't want to upset the guy) So, I figured I could drop the 350 in and tell everybody it's a Pontiac <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> or I'll paint it grey and say its original <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the tip 1937hd45 and Roger Walling!!All I have to do is weld the 3" headers into a y-tube that is welded into the original single 1 1/2" tail pipe and nobody would notice <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> With all that exhaust bottlenecking in that little tube <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> the car probably would only do 60 just like the original (just kidding of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 If you go to the photo gallery at the top of the page and go to Pontiac yu will find a picture of my car in 1947 with me standing on the running board and a more current one. I will try to get a couple of under hood shots posted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I "lost" a bid on a radiator/shell in ebay after trying for the past 2 years to find one. I was outbid one minute before it ended and I didn't have enough time to up my bid. Maybe I was better off just letting the bones lay in the ground instead of trying to revive them. Is this another one of those "lessons" I'm supposed to be learning.Tin Indian: Beautiful Indian you got there! It looks strikingly familiar to mine. They are the same color/condition and everything. Only difference is that I have the 2 door and no reserve wheel on the side. I sure wish I could get him (my wife calls him "Romeo") on the road, but things are looking very dim at the moment. My wife adores them and gives them all names! She has absolutely refused to let me sell them, not even for parts. We've got Romeo and Juliet (the 29 Pontiac and a 23 Ford T), Bonnie and Clyde (29 and 30 Model A Coupes) and a 27 Dodge that she hasn't named yet. Our daily drivers are....Sampson and Delilah (of course, what else!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cullen Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 in re: losing a bid with less than 1 minute left:That is a technique called "sniping" you use a website that automatically enters a bid with 5-10 seconds left in the auction, you enter your top bid, it sends it in the last seconds, you always win over the people watching an item to try and snag it at the last minute or two. (the time left is not always accurate when you load the page) sniping works as long as nobody has a higher bid already in the system. the auctionsniper website lets you try it a few times before they charge you for the service (around $0.25 per item won) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Sorry everybody, it wasn't my intention to turn this thread into an "ebay" haters club. So I'll just move on to the next question:I know that I can't make pistons, connecting rods etc., but:If I find connecting rods, bushings, and pistons from different engines that "look" pretty damn close without measuring exactly...would it be smart to try and see if they will work? If the diameter of the pistons are the same and the rods are the same length, I mean...what could hurt?Plus, when rebuilding V8's I tend to use the black/red RTV silicon gasket maker and just eliminate the thick intake manifold gasket all together and I also use it on/around the head to go along with the head gasket. Can I use RTV all by itself and would this be a good alternative if I cannot find gaskets for the car? Are there any "gasket making" kits anymore where I can just buy the material that I cut out and make myself a gasket with? I can use the head itself as a template, but where do I get the gasket material from?? Can I use a very thin piece of aluminum (like the ones at Lowe's) to make myself a head gasket out of (together with the black RTV)? When I torque down on that aluminum, it should mush nicely at 65 - 135 ft/lbs.(don't know that yet) and expand when the engine gets hot. (my thoughts) I'm shooting at between 65 ft/lbs first because thats the torque rate of my 427 Ford FE heads and 135 ft/lbs because thats the torque rate of the heads on my Zetor diesel tractor. I don't have the exact torque rates, but simple trial and error will fix that easily!Are there any other engineering marvel ideas out there????? The clock is ticking for the winter project, so I am still going through all of my options. I can't be sure, but I think that 350 moved a couple of inches closer to the car last night. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Install the 350 and enjoy driving the car next spring.Keep looking for the stock components and rebuild the stocker over the next 10-15 years. Remove the 350 and install the stocker, what part of the procedure an I missing? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rbl2 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 If you had the tools and skills you could make any part you wanted. A metal lathe and a drill press would be a good start. Parts can be interchanged but they have to be exact. Gasket material can be had at just about any auto parts store. It comes in varying thicknesses. I use the cork/rubber combo for most applications. If that's too thick a cereal box works quite well. I've seen some mechanics use silicone all by itself but I wouldn't do that. NEVER use a sealer on head gaskets. This material cannot be used for head to block applications.I've never made a head gasket but I've been tempted to. Copper or brass would be better than aluminum. Use a thicker material than the flashing I presume you're talking about that can be had at building supply stores. I'd think flashing is too thin. Metal thick enough for a head gasket can probably be had at any machine shop. If not they can certainly point you in the right direction. If you have the old head gasket use it for a template. Putting a 350 in that car would be as much of a headache, if not more, than keeping it original. With the 350 comes the need for different brakes, steering, suspension, transmission and drive train. Just my .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 OK, here are the pictures of my "projects" including the 29 Pontiac in this discussion: 28 Ford Coupe 29 Pontiac 629: 30 Ford Coupe 27 Dodge Brothers 124 (just before the paint/body shop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I the October 2, 2006 "Old Autos" There is advertisement in parts for sale. A person in Kettleby, Ontario has a 29 Pontiac Motor and transmision parts for sale. I presume he means engine as I have never seen an electric Pontiac. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The phone number is 905-939-8735. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Good news everybody. The engine is moving again using some old tricks that rbl2 sent me.I took out all of the spark plugs and poured some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders and let it sit overnight. With some effort (I'm no body builder) I was able to turn the engine. I poured a little more, waited, and it turned with little effort. Now it spins freely using the starter and I'm just fighting with the ignition. I replaced all of the wiring (most was rotted) and converted to 12V. I think that some of the wires were missing because after carefully replacing each existing wire with a new wire I am not getting any spark or flame at the points, so I am working out the gremlins. (everything is new: distibutor, cap, points, coil, etc.) I also managed to fry the ignition wire once because I forgot to install a ballast resistor (its an aftermarket coil that requires either resistance wire or an external resistor).I think that all of the "damage" to the engine I was seeing was because I was using a flashlight peeking up the inside through the bottom of the oilpan. Kind like a doctor trying to tell you how your heart is doing by peeking up your a%^&. I did not have any metal or anything in the oilpan when I removed it....so rbl2 kinda convinced me not to take it apart. For now, I am just going to try to start it and see if it runs. BTW: for now the V8 has went back hiding in its den in the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rbl2 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I'll pay you not to put that V8 in that Pontiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Oh, God, please, please, please not another Chevy 350/TH350 rod. Is there anybody in the universe who <span style="font-style: italic">doesn't</span> have one yet?But on the other hand, I'm very glad to hear you have it turning. It'll take some tinkering to get it running, but I think you'll be pleased with the results. There's something about running a car in its natural state that is extremely satisfying. It isn't fast, but it does provide a different kind of thrill. You'll find that there's a lot more to driving a "toy" car than air conditioning, cruise control set at 75 and a booming stereo.Good luck with the project and happy motoring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rbl2 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Someone suggested I "upgrade" my 26 just so it could go faster. By the time I got done explaining what all that involved... brakes, drive train, electrical system, frame and front end, I asked him what kind of car I would have. He said a modified 26 Chevy. I said no I wouldn't. I wouldn't know what I'd have but it sure wouldn't be a 26 Chevy.To each his own, for sure. It'd be a dull world if we thought alike.Myself, I just hate to see somethimg there are few of and will never be replaced modified to the point that it will never again be original. Like I said, to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 More good news. Found the gremlin. You guys probably know this one. On most distributors of that age the distributor lead wire is connected to the outside of the distributor on a tiny bolt (years later this connector moved to the inside of the distributor). This bolt passes through the distributor housing where, on the inside, the points touch it. This tiny bolt must be insulated (no brainer) or it touches the distributor housing...causing a short. After testing everything with my multi-meter, frying the wiring once, and then frying 2 ballast resistors, once again, rbl2 pointed me to the right direction. The old insulation was dry rotted. They (three in total) literally evaporated in my fingers. I now have spark and didn't need the ballast resistor after all. I'm gonna leave it on because its cheaper to replace a $8 resistor than re-wire the ignition in case that little bit of insulation gives out again someday. Not to mention, the car would be much safer from a potential fire! That?s a lot of volts going through that little bolt!!!To those against "modifying": My thought is that it depends on the condition of the car when you get it. It is much less expensive to "modify" and "modernize" a car using today's parts than to restore if you only have the frame/body and nothing else is salvageable. Plus, although I am nostalgic I'd rather see a 1927 whatever w/a 350 Chevy than it rusting in a junk yard. BTW, I know of several billion people on this planet (universe) who don't have a Rod or 350 Chevy and most of the owners of these cars are actually middle-aged or older and don't have the stereo blasting. Our cars are rare no matter what's in them. Don't be shy and go to the next NSRA show and meet the owners. You may realize that they are great proud people just like the ones of the AACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have listened intently to all the wisdom and determent of putting in an orange 350 into an older car. I have a 1938 Buick coupe that I just bought and intended to install the orange engine.. Now that I have though it over, I shall stay with a Buick engine. (They made a nice one in "71" and it?s red!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Actually, I never could figure out why the symbolic color of a 350 is orange. I haven't seen an orange 350 in a while. I beleive the last time I saw that was in a 60'ish Camaro. Does anyone know where that stereotype came from?Roger, red is a nice color and I bet that's gonna be pretty.At Hershey, I asked a guy with a striking 38 Pontiac what kind of engine he had. With the hood closed, winking he said it was a four cylinder. Of course, he meant 4 on each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rbl2 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To those against "modifying": My thought is that it depends on the condition of the car when you get it. It is much less expensive to "modify" and "modernize" a car using today's parts than to restore if you only have the frame/body and nothing else is salvageable. Plus, although I am nostalgic I'd rather see a 1927 whatever w/a 350 Chevy than it rusting in a junk yard. </div></div> I agree with that 100% If the car is a real mess to begin with better to rod it then let it rust. Good on you for finding that gremlin. As it turned out I had basically the same problem at the same time. There was no reason I could find for my own car not to get fire to the plugs and yet it didn't. I found it ironic to help you with your car and be unable to fix my own with the same problem at the same time. Yesterday I decided to look again and touched that insulation around that little bolt and found it wet with what appeared to be oil. A few squirts or carb cleaner and a wait to allow it to dry and my old Chevy cranked right up.What this means is now that your car and mine are both running again the gremlins have moved on and someone else will now be having problems. I suppose we can expect some nasty emails directly. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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