MY FINAL BUGLE, MR EDITOR- BCA NO:#36684

[Guest]

Pat W.Brooks, I read your farewell address.

I was visible upset to see the "rehashed" '48 on the cover again, that I finally threw my BCA renewal in the garbage today! It was due this month, and thanks to Robert Snowden editorial, it made it all the easier.

18 years is plenty of time in this club, and now it's time to focus my energy in a club like the AACA, that will not have a problems trying to caculate how many points "low profile" tires get over diamond backs.

I passed on this years national for the same reason.

The Brass Buick, '27, '30','42,'50 and '58 groups have been gaining members, as the BCA focuses on JC Whitney catalog accessories attached to Buick sheet metal.

Keith, no need to post "cleaver" remarks, I will still be around in the AACA, CLC and the Airstream club.

My interest and direction has always been in the preservation of this old iron, from my first trip to a junk yard when I was 16, pulling back the waist high weeds to see that huge grill of a '50 buick shining in the sun.

The whole affair is shame.

"Put a smile on the face of Mr. Earl", Robert you should work for NPR with those "facts"!

Peter A. Scavone

aka Tommy 1927

[Guest my3buicks]

No clever remarks, a simple cia/goodbye is all I have to say. Oh, and you should correct your 18 year membership to, 18 years of off and on membership.

Keith Bleakney

Member

[NTX5467]

With all due respect, this turn of events does not surprise me.

After judging and looking over the customized Buick (that was on the cover) at Plano last year, I can say it deserves EVERY award it might garner (past and future)! Very far from a J.C.Whitney "customized" vehicle! Lots of neat "Buick" touches that, quite frankly, didn't have to be there, but were. Not to mention a particular size of Michelin Symmetry (a P225/70R-16 white stripe) that is an exact match for the old H78-15 tire size. Or the Billet Specialities wheels that had the red/white/blue paint near the center, just as a Buick would have had. Lots of little things that didn't have to be there (that were Buick oriented), but were.

In many respects, you can pay your money and head for super rare vintage parts or do something "different" (hopefully tastefully, of course) in using "incorrect" parts on a particular vehicle, or altering the sheet metal in several different scenarios too. OR you can buy a new vehicle and not worry about making these choices.

Many might argue that the BCA is too picky in its judging, using other established car clubs as "justification" of that argument. BUT they are NOT the BUICK Club of America (which should have the highest judging standards of any car club of its type). That's why the first year for production radial tires or halogen headlights or whatever else IS important in the BCA scheme of things, with all due respect, as other national groups kind of gloss over those things.

The AACA is a highly respected organization and one of the largest of its type in the world. Each enthusiast organization is at liberty to have whatever set of judging rules/criteria that they might desire, just as each automotive enthusiast is at liberty to find the group that best fits their needs and orientations.

There will always be cycles of car club memberships growing and decreasing as time progresses or certain models/types of vehicles coming into vogue or fall from favor. The BCA obviously saw quite a spike in memberships as the Buick Centennial Celebration became reality. Now that that event is past, things are declining somewhat, most probably headed back toward a more normal level of membership. A somewhat normal situation, by observation.

Many enthusiasts will join several groups (and belong to many online communities), but at some point in time, many of these memberships will be "cut" as time used for them becomes needed for other areas of their lives. It can even be a seasonal situation too, as the cold months become warm months or vice versa. Maybe the decrease in time spent is due to a . . . car project.

I wish you well, Tommy1927, in your other vehicular activities. I saw a shiney stainless Airstream the other day, with vintage license plates on it. It was a sight to behold--recalling when they were priced for people who could usually afford Cadillacs and Lincolns (which also had bigger engines to tow them with), or Buicks and Chryslers. I've seen the vintage trailer show coverage on the cable channels too--really neat stuff!

Take care and enjoy life to the fullest!

NTX5467

[Guest AWBE]

I won't resign----but I'm with you Tommy. As far as I'm concerned, that's scrap iron.

[Guest G-K]

So??

The BCA will now be taking applications for the position of "Club Curmudgeon"

Please remit all applications to:

PITA@BCA.COM

[Bill Stoneberg]

Peter A. Scavone, I read your farewell address.

While I am not visibly upset to see you go, I think you are doing yourself a disservice and twisting facts to fit your prejuduces.

Now you are using the one modified issue that is printed every year to justify quitting the BCA. That is less the 10 % of the content every year.

You also use 32 modified cars out of 500 or so at the NY nationals as a reason not to come. Once again less then 10 % of the cars.

The BCA has not changed their judging criteria to weaken the the standards for original cars. If any of your cars were a excellent example of an original car before, they still will be.

What the BCA has tried to do is to get some of the older cars out and to the meets by creating a Drivers class. They also are trying to grow and attract more Buick's by creating the modified division.

How nice it would have been to see some of your cars at Batavia either in a judged class or the Drivers class.

If you dont like the modified cars thats your perogative, but all the ones I have seen are so much more then your description of them. I hope the quality of the workmanship on your cars are as good as the ones I saw at Batavia.

[Buicksplus]

I happen to share Tommy's concern about the attention modifieds are getting in this club, but I do not plan on leaving the BCA over the issue. Not yet, anyway. Like Bill Sonneberg, I can deal with one issue out of 12 Bugles that is devoted to another hobby than the one I have. I can also deal with 10% of the show cars at meets being highly modified, hey the public loves them and some probably think they are actually Buicks.

It's not about workmanship either, everyone knows that some modified cars have incredible workmanship and creativity. The problem is that modified cars represent the opposite of preservation -- their objective is to alter what was originally produced as a Buick -- the end result is different mechanically and asthetically than what Buick intended.

Can we all be friends? Of course we can, we're all car nuts! But it isn't easy to find much common ground here. Somehow I think if the rods stay at 10%, they will probably go elsewhere, to one of the many clubs where rods are king. If the rods go to 50%, will the preservationists be comfortable with that? I doubt it.

See you on the road Tommy, I look forward to meeting you again in one of your original and mostly unrestored old cars.

Bill, lover of original Buicks.

[JohnD1956]

I was going to write a scathing reply, but what's that gonna get anyone?

I'm sure that this club is not for everyone. Fine, then just don't renew and go away quietly. It's like the TV. If you don't like what's on, use the channel button to change it.

I haven't seen one person with a modified car attack anyone here for having an original car yet, and I hope we all remain civil and don't fall to that.

Personally I like the BCA, and all it stands for, and all it's trying to do to attract Buick enthusiasts.

Bob, I say keep up the good work. It is nice to see a healthy balance of original, restored, refurbished and modified cars in the Bugles. Chances are if modifieds were ever built at the factory Buick would have done them. Look at their concept cars. They obviously thought Buicks could be and should be modified. And even though I don't own a modified Buick, I think those that do have every right to be a part of this club of Buick Enthusiasts.

John d

[6219_Rules]

Well I guess Tommy 1927 will be leaving the CLC soon ... they just admitted, with a strong majority (pardon me if I do not say 'a mandate') of the boardmembers at this years GN, of the Modified Cadillac Chapter. They also created a Modified class for non-judged cars to be shown at any of the CLC shows. If the owner wishes, he can enter his modified Cadillac in the Touring/Drivers Class.

We felt it was about time to address this issue straight forwardly. I am proud to be involved from the beginning in the Modified Chapter while maintaining my own preferences of keeping my cars as original as possible. Still, I think there is a place for modified cars, not kustomized...but cars that have been maintained for use. The people of the Modified Chapter are all great people with lots of car related experience and openly share their knowledge, while forwarding the goals of the CLC as best they can. What the heck...it IS a social organization as well as a preservation club. I would rather see an incorrect paint job, modern interior (with some reservations) as long as the car is recognizably a Cadillac and on the road.

That kind of leaves Cadzilla out but that's OK...they have their own clubs.

Sorry to horn in here but I wanted to support the efforts of the BCA and to show that other clubs are aware and dealing with the issue at hand.

Sorry, Tommy. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Buicks Rule]

Tommy/Peter Scavone,

Funny thing. I spent an hour on the phone with an old friend tonight that's heavily into original Buicks. Wonderful guy and fantastic wife. Real asset to the BCA, and to AACA. Part of our conversation was about the BCA modified division. Turns out I know 2 of the three leaders very well. Again, great guys. Fantastic wives. ALL, I REPEAT ALL OF THEM have been involved in the Buick hobby restoring to original, racing, touring, and now modifying.

I've participated in a number of events with these folks, shows, tours and even some racing. Everyone has fun. Everyone gets along. Everyone respects each other's taste in cars, original, modified, full race, whatever.

Sorry Tommy but from your posts, you just don't seem to be a lot of fun to be around. Have a nice life. Enjoy your cars and Airstream.

[Guest]

Hey Randall,

Yes I'll be out of the CLC also in that case.

If you check all the groups "fleeting" the BCA in this case, some 823 members with pre-war cars are migrating away from the BCA.

You can crow about the "popular" ideals about a big tent, but it's apparent who's running out the back door.

I could have a '27 yahoo group Buick meet and have more pre-war cars then the BCA already.

Our www.1958cadilac.com has 714 members.

Good luck with your club, I'm going to love seeing the "fined Scion" get a first junior.

Plus I'll be saving $70 bucks a year in dues.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Plus I'll be saving $70 bucks a year in dues. </div></div>

And you can put that toward the purchase of one full tank of gas!

[BigFella]

IMHO this topic has been beat to death and there is really no new or usefull information here and the start of the post appears to be a fishing attempt...

so the moderator should lock this thread...

[Buicksplus]

Hey big fella:

Where have you been on this here internet? Most of these threads hash over old topics over and over and over again. No harm done. What's the problem, are you a little short of disk space?

What's wrong with a little controversy? Gosh, if we can't talk about out the issue of how to deal with street rods in a collector car club in an open forum, where can we?

I guess you think there is no controversy, and those who are less than thrilled with the concept should just get out of the club and go on their way. Asked and answered, as our attorneys like to say.

This thread seems very civil to me, it's just car nuts taking a break from their garages and expressing their opinions. The main value of it all is to make it clear that this is a sensitive issue for the BCA and most car clubs.

Please leave the thread alone, it will eventually drift to the bottom along with a lot of other interesting and important discussions.

[BigFella]

BP,

First read this as lighthearted...not mean or spitefull :-) I writing it with a smile and a giggle.

IMHO = In My Honest Opinion (this is how I started my post so I was also stating my opinion about this thread)

btw, I work on this here Internet :-) Every day, all day to ensure folks like yourself and "Tommy" can boot a computer and have a place to go ;-)

I do understand the need for an open forum but this topic is the same as the other threads started by the same people complaining about the same thing. How many of them are doing anything about this "problem"? Going to a board meeting? Running for offices at the naional level? Writing a *factual* paper to be presented to the board? What is that old saying about opinions? :-)

Nope lets continue to rehash and snipe this same "issue" the same way again and again. Heck lets search the forums and restart every old post about the same topic. We get them every time a Buick appears that could not be judged in the 400 point system...It's time for people to stop posting the same things about it and do something. This is the same as someone complaining all the time about everything but never willing to come up with a solution to anything they complain about...it should just magically change so they will be happy...

===========================================================

My 2 cents on the issue:

Myself, as a younger Buick owner being in my 30's, see the direction of the club as a *huge* positive. Leaving the club as a 400 point judged against factory club is not going to change what people do to cars. Embracing all the factions brings everyone closer together and also shows some folks who have only one view <cough> that other views do exist and are very pasionate to other folks. Like it or not, Customs/Rods are here to stay as they have been since the birth of the auto revolution...my car is a driver class car....some day it may be a 400 point restore...some day it may be a mild custom. Who knows. I'm just happy to belong to a club where folks who love Buicks can be at "home"...even if we sometimes fight with our sibblings at "home". :-)

besides, if we listen to Dave@Moon we won't have any gas to run these with in 10 years anyway so get ready to be in the modified division if you wanna drive them and have to convert to some other power source! :-)

[BUICK RACER]

Well Tommy, you will be missed, but you don't need to be a BCA member to post on this forum, so you still can stir it up, anytime you want! I just want to say one thing and it doesn't apply to all the Modified Buicks out there, but to the majority, if these Buicks weren't modified, they would probably be part of of a new Toyota, or Honda as recycled metal! The Coupe de Grape that "The Old Guy", Joe's '37 Was a major piece of rusted out mess, as I found it for him, and rescued it home, trailered to his house, and then he transformationed into a real road cruiser! Otherwise this '37 was headed for the junkyard! I really, think you, Tonmmy, need to rethink your oposition to the Modified Buicks, Mr. Greg Fallowfield, ake Greg Field, that started the Buick CLub of America, did so cause he wanted to go Fast in a Buick, and that is the real deal, that the BCA was founded in 1966, cause Buicks had the torque and Horsepower to whip them all, at the dragstrip or the roundy rounds! If you don't want to faster in your Buick,and just want to drive it, then check out

[Patrick W. Brooks]

Hello Tommy and others:

Have been watching this thread and appreciate the civil tone of the discussion. No need to repeat what others have said. However, as the past owner of one 1928, two 1929's, and a 1925 which I sold about one year ago, I appreciate very much the older cars. I might add that I owned a 1904 Olds for many years and even did London To Brighton in England in the car in 1996. Years ago I would have probably resisted having modifieds in the BCA but not today. Interest in the older cars is slipping and there is little we can do about it as the aging process cannot be stopped and as new people come into middle age they want the cars of their youth. This is why more than 80% of the cars at any BCA activity are from the 1960's or newer. If anyone has an answer to this problem please let the BCA Board know as we have spent many hours discussing how to deal with this problem. This interest in the cars from the 1960's and 1970's is reflected in the ability of the owner of an older car to sell it, especially an unrestored car which needs much work and many parts. My best example of this is a junk yard about 15 miles from my home which crushed over 200 cars about three years ago after being unable to sell them. These cars were from the late 1930's through the middle 1950's. The owner put the word out about them and many people came to see them but only 6 or 8 cars were sold and the rest were crushed. Of the cars sold almost all of them were purchased by people who wanted to convert them to modifieds. They will strip the unneed parts and sell them which means some of the car is saved and not crushed. Being crushed means all is lost and at least some parts are recyled if the car is modified. Tommy, if you want to do something find a way to locate an owner for every older car which is going to be crushed. There are simply to many older cars out there with noone interested in owning them. I hate to see them lost and have personally disassembled many of them to save the parts. However, I have trouble selling most of the parts and do not know what will happen to them eventually. You talk about this issue from "high ground" where the air is very rarefied. Come on down to reality and see the problem from a practical point of view. If the modifiers do not get some of these cars they are lost forever and the parts which would be resold lost. Certainly there are examples of good cars lost to such projects but they are in the small minority. As lovers of original Buicks we must salvage what we can from this situation and we salvage nothing if the cars are scraped. About 18 months ago I got a call from a man with a 1931 and 1948 engine in his garage which he had been unable to sell and was going to scrape. He said come and get it or it is going next week. He also had, when I got there, wire spoke wheels, a rear end and other items not needed for a modified. The car from which these part orginated was going to be scraped some years ago and he saved many of the best parts for others who needed them. Should we look down on him and his modified 1931 or say thanks to him for saving what he did????

Take another look at this issue with an open mind. Patrick W. Brooks, member, BCA Board of Directors.

[Guest]

Being from central Iowa myself, I visited the salvage yard that Pat speaks of. Truly, there were hundreds of cars around, many with decent stainless. I remember a lot of Mopar stuff. Now, this area has exclusive homes near a golf course (right Pat?)

I have purchased way too many "project" cars including my last 3 off of this forum. As I in less then perfect health at the moment, I put all four of my Buicks and my 49 GMC 5 window in the Buy/Sell area about 3 weeks ago. There was some modest interest in the 49 Roadmaster, but not much else.

I have a soft touch for project Buicks, especially rare non convertible cars. I saw a 63 Electra 2 door hardtop sport coupe with buckets/console/autronic eye on ebay last week that I put a $375 bid on that sold for $500. I have absolutely no need for another project car but I hate to see little interest in these cars.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm 41 now and was 33 when I joined the BCA. I am sure this places me below the mean average BCA member age, which I would be interested to know what that age is. Tommy1927, I want you to know that i plan on joining the pre-war chapter and I have ALWAYS preferred original. You have a bad attitude and I have seldom if ever seen a post from you that seems encouraging, like you have want to rollup your sleeves and do something about it. You represent, however, a great many older members of many clubs who show up at shows and events, place your "do not even come close to my car" signage, then wander off to gab with other geriatrics about anything but cars.

I hope to have 40-45 years of displaying ever older (THAT'S RIGHT - OLDER) Buicks to younger folks while encouraging original restorations but tolerating modifications.

Pat, I would love to start a stash of older parts, many listed on this forum, just because they are cool unto themselves (I love just looking at my 320 straight eight 49 Roadmaster engine)but time and money cut into those odds. I have a rule in my garage that if it isn't being used for a current project, out in goes.

About a year ago (a year ago?) I created a thread regarding creation of a national Buick salvage yard that got some interesting responses. You mention this one fellow just wanting you to take some older Buick parts away so he could have some garage space. yes, we don't need to throw this stuff out but no one has a great answer either.

I need an endowment, like these universities get. A Sam walton type that donates $100 million to the BCA so I can start my "Buick elephant graveyard".

Tommy, your yahoo groups might bring similar minded folk together for awhile but there's commitment there. There is no resolve to increase membership, preserve the cars as a whole. Anybody can say "I love this or that, why not post your car here for others to see". That's not the BCA or CLC. etc. It is what it sounds like "a YAHOO group".

At the Goodguys Heartland Nationals on the July 4 weekend, I had a large group of hot rodders stay at the Hampton Inn I work at. I work overnights, so there was still a large group up in the lobby when I got there at 11pm. I mentioned I was into old cars too, and they asked what I had. I said I owned the 4 old cars I own and 3 of those are Buicks - BUT I ONLY DO ORIGINAL, NO MODIFICATIONS - I said. They were "cool with that" and went on to say how much they respected old Buicks. It's kind of like Liberals and Conservatives - we are never going to agree but there is room for everyone. When dawn hit, I went out and walked our parking lot and admired the hot rods, including a well executed 39 Chevy Woody wagon. If a man puts that much time and sweat into that creation, then that's OK with me. It was art, just not the kind of art TOMMY1927 and I prefer.

Finally, the Cadillac LaSalle Club Grand National was in West Des Moines this year creating a a rare opportunity to see national level Cadillacs so close to home. BUT because of being spread too thin at one time by joing 4 different old car clubs, all nationally sanctioned, I cut back to only BCA and was not willing to join CLC just so I could wander the show field. On a quiet Saturday evening, after taking my 3 1/2 year old daughter to see "March of the Penguins" we slipped onto the show field while the main banquet was going on inside. I told my daughter "DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING" and she never did. But she would squat and look at herself in the hubcap reflections, ask about the 'lady on the hood ornament' and take in the smells of an old car interior. I can't count how many times she said "This car is my favorite".

Tommy1927, there is always hope that the cars we enjoy and love will be passed along and not everyone will want a modified.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

First let me say I love original unrestored old Buicks the most. Next to that probably a driver that is still pretty much correct. Next comes a correct and nicely restored one.

The BCA as the parent organization, must act as just that. A parent. They must look out for the entire family.(My parents probably for a while considered me as "modified" when compared to my straight older brother. Thankfully they didn't reject or kick me out). As we must not reject any Buick just because it's been modified. The youth of today as always, want to do things their way. I recently rescued a 55 and 56 Buick from an old gentlemans backyard. Both 4 door hardtops. A few more years and they would have been into the dirt.LOTS of very good parts and potentially good money could be made off them. I could not stand to part them out though. Advertised them for what I had paid for them and a promise not to part them out. I found a young buyer for the 56. He plans on hot rodding it. Probably suicide the doors and who knows what else. He loves the Nailheads and already has one in a T-bucket. I was happy to have found a home for it and look forward to seeing those portholes, sweep spears and BUICK emblems being driven around ADVERTISING for Buick. Advertising for the BCA. Advertising and sayinig LOOK, OLD CARS ARE FUN, they're not just for a bunch of old farts to park at a show field and holler at kids when they so much as touch them.

I too, often dream of creating a National Buick Salvage yard. In fact Rita claims that I already have...in our back yard. Everytime I see an empty 40'X 500' chicken house , I start doing the math to see how many old Buicks could be stored in it. I am up to 9 "parts" cars in the back yard not including the two 54 Roadmasters I just drug home from Richmond, Virginia this last weekend. The BIG problem is I could no more part out, then crush, most of these than I could shoot my old dog simply because he's old. BUT who is gonna buy an old 4 door Roadmaster these days and spend the money and time to restore it to original pristine condition. Not many folks. But perhaps some young kid who wants to spray can paint it primer black, throw on some flames coming outa the portholes and just enjoy it for a few years. Who knows, maybe he'll get attached to it, keep it and end up someday calling me back looking for parts to RESTORE it.

I really hope Peter will stay with the BCA and just gain an understanding that as long as it's a Buick, it's deserves being loved as just that... A Buick. The greatest automobile on the planet.

[Robberbach]

Here, here Mr. Earl, I couldn't agree more. A Buick is a Buick and should be loved for that fact. Enjoy the ride, life is really to short for all the other stuff. Got to go, old car night at the Drive-in. Maybe a modified Buick will show up.

[Buicksplus]

Am I hearing that we need to embrace street rods in order to save more parts for original old cars?

This sounds pretty far fetched to me. The continuing loss of old car parts to crushing or just plain rusting is part of the hobby and always will be. What fun would this hobby be if we could get parts at Wal-Mart? Remember Lady Bird Johnson's attack on junkyards all across America in the 60's? That had a very strong effect on drying up parts availability. Yet, we still have old cars on the road today. Personally, I find with the internet, it is easier to find parts than ever. I might add the hardest car I ever had to find parts for was a relatively new '62 Ford convertible. Look for trim for that car, practically impossible to find. I don't think I could find much from a rodder either, too new for them to bother.

BTW, I really have no problem with "modified" cars which are Buicks that may have alternators, air conditioners, or even engines or transmissions from different years -- changes made to make the car more servicable or maybe to give it a chance to stay on the road a bit longer.

My problem is with street rods with their Mustang front ends, chopped tops, fat tires, severed frames, small block Chevy engines, 9" Ford rear ends, etc, etc. These cars may have parts of Buick bodies. Many of them are very beautifully and cleverly crafted. But most (not all) of them are no more Buick than a BMW.

I don't go to Buick meets just to see 400 point restorations. I go to see, hear, and smell original Buicks of all years and condition.

The BCA is a great club and has many more young folks than most collector car clubs -- probably because the club celebrates Buicks all the way from brass to the 90's. Personally, I do not think embracing street rods will strengthen the club. It will weaken its base and most of the rodders are going to stay away anyway.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Peter what you dont realize here is that you are trying to dictate taste. You want everyone to do it your way or your going to take your Buick and go home. Not to be offensive but .......thats crazy........ how can you tell another person what is right or wrong for him? I currently own 2 older cars, the Limited and a 1972 Dodge Dart. And Im doing them both a different way for different reasons.

The Buick is staying all original.I bought it as a clean used car and saw the potential in bringing it back to showroom condition. As every part gets changed it is replaced with a genuine GM replacement part. This is how *I* the person who pays for the bills & holds the title to this 77 Buick have chosen to do this particular car.

The Dart is an entirely different story:

Bias ply tires -gone , replaced by radials, its my ass that gets hurt if the tires cant handle the car

Original engine -gone , too much cash to rebuild when I could get the same engine with higher base HP for a better price.

Original paint - mercifully covered , the original color was just plain ugly and needed to die

Wheels , exhaust , suspension , braking system- updated to maintain the performance image I have tried to create with this car.

Now this car is obviously not your cup of tea, but you know what thats not my problem. This is my car & this is how I want it to be. This is the car I never got to finish in high school, now at 41 Im remedying that. I dont really owe you or anyone else for that matter any explanation for why Im doing my car the way I am, its my car & my choice.

Now at this point you only have 2 options

1.) suck it up and realize that this is my car , my money , and my decision . You may not like it but you cant change it.

2.) Whine & cry about how "Theyre not doing what I tell them " pick up your ball and go home.

The choice is up to you Peter

Dan

[Guest]

REPOST FROM A 27 GROUP MEMBER:

I'm sorry to see you leave the B.C.A.

I agree with you completely.... I can't stand Mods, and "Hot Rods"

either....But I'm sorry to see you leave, because we need as

many "purists" there are, to offset the younger generation, and their

emphasis on stainless steel exhausts, and fur on the dash.

I was in Iola Wi. last month for the big car show there.

I see from a distance....NO...could it be? Could it be a 31 model 94

roadster...? YES ! a 31 model 94....I've never seen one in person

in my whole 40 years on this Earth.......Whoops....fat tires, v-8

engine, modern gauges, independent 4 wheel suspension...?

Gawd....it was enough to make me cry. Here is a car, that hardly

any were made...and what 4, or 5 are left in the World....this guy

has to modify it...so he can lissten to CD's while driving to car

shows.

4 rows down....my heart jumps again..... 1935 Buick Coupe....could it

be a 90 series....? YES!! Oh....wait a minute, that's a Chevy 350

in the engine compartment...oh, and an auto tranny on the column...

The owners' son, maybe about 12, saw me looking underneath, and all

around, and had this real PROUD look on his face, like "My dad has

the coolest car....look at this guy envy us..?

That all changed when he saw me frowning, and holding back genuine

tears, as I mourned for this rare beauty...that had made it

1st...just getting ordered in 35 was a miracle in itself, but then to

make it all these decades, and some guy strip it, and put flames on

it. I touched the Flying Goddess, and prayed a little prayer for the

90 series. That kid did not have a smile on his face when I walked

away.

Anyway...Peter, you are a brilliant man, I loved your movie last

year...and we need 20's guys like you.

Best Regards,

[Guest]

That guy knows his stuff!

The movies he speaks of are linked below:

Ride in a 27 buick

(I'm the cute one with out the white coat on.)

see and hear a 1927 engine

[Buicks Rule]

Sad really;

So sad;

Actually tragic;

That such a devout, nay sainted,

defender of original and restored cars,

should fondle a car belonging to another.

So sad, shameful really

But then bad manners always are!

Those of whom the hobby shall always be proud,

just seem to know, without instruction,

the two things that offend and cause destruction;

are touching someone else's spouse and

touching someone else's car.

Buhma Shave!

[Dave@Moon]

I've come to love this old argument. Half the people reading this will assume that the other half is trying to tell them and others what to do with their cars, the other half will assume that the first half hasn't the capacity to understand the history they so cavalierly dismiss.

Both are wrong.

Those who share Peter's point of view don't say it enough, but there is a serious point behind their objection to seemingly innoccuous customs of relatively common cars. The guy who built the first deuce coupe inspired the second, who inspired the third, who inspired the fourth, who probably inspired the first T-bucket, who eventually inspired the first roadster/pickup with a small block,.... until we get to the guy who inspired the desecration of the '31 just mentioned. You can only celibrate a form of automotive expression that has individuality at it's core for so long before unique pallets are sought.

I've seen hot rods made of cars that make the '31 Model 94 (824 made) look like a '87 S10, and given the nature of the car market today <span style="font-style: italic">many</span> of these cars were rodded after recieving AACA Senior and BCA Gold awards. It takes a few minutes research to find dozens of street rods made from Full Classics, one-offs, valuable rarities, and even dream cars. <span style="font-weight: bold">All</span> were built by someone who wanted to put their twist on a "cool car" they saw, and who did not appreciate the value of the material they were working with. Few people do any more, <span style="font-style: italic">even if our club members probably do!</span>

That's because we're invisible. That Model 94 wouldn't see the outside of it's trailer twice in a year, or leave the confines of the "show field" when it did, if it were authentic. Our publications are almost the only place left to be reminded that such cars exist.

Street rods are on the street for all to see. They don't need any help recruiting and inspiring new people to one-up the last street rod in the chain.

So it isn't the car in question that people object to, or even the concept of street rodding. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is the serious potential to inspire similar treatment to other cars, some of whom <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> of our membership would find distasteful.</span> That's an emminently deniable concept, and those who'd prefer to think that they're being told what to do by a bunch of self-important blowhards will do their best at denial, and others will buy the argument. Those who assume that <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> group lacks an understanding of the history of these cars will take that denial as confirmation. Thus the great circle of life goes on.

...meanwhile another nice Series 90 Victoria Coupe gets it's big-block Ford and Bronco sub-frame.

[West Peterson]

[quote

That's because we're invisible. That Model 94 wouldn't see the outside of it's trailer twice in a year, or leave the confines of the "show field" when it did, if it were authentic. Our publications are almost the only place left to be reminded that such cars exist. Street rods are on the street for all to see. They don't need any help recruiting and inspiring new people to one-up the last street rod in the chain.

Brilliant!!! You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Rather than chasing trophy after trophy, the rewards that us "purists" should be recieving are (1) the pleasure of driving these fantastic machines, and (2) knowing that we've inspired others to appreciate and possibly preserve them as well. Otherwise, as I've been known to say, "Trailer Queen car owners aren't enjoying the car any more than car show spectators, who don't have the cash outlay, storage problems, headaches, etc.

To add to the Series 90 "freak show," I've seen three Series 90 Buicks cut up by the same person in Dunwoody, Georgia, all 1935 models: a coupe-victoria, a four-door sedan, and (sob) a convertible sedan (how many of those are around, I bet less then four). The 1935 Series 90 coupe mentioned earlier I think is one of only two known. Nicolas Bulgari owns one that was shown at Pebble Beach, Hershey and at the Greensburg, PA show earlier this year. I guess it's the only one left, now.

[Bill Stoneberg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rather than chasing trophy after trophy, the rewards that us "purists" should be recieving are (1) the pleasure of driving these fantastic machines, and (2) knowing that we've inspired others to appreciate and possibly preserve them as well. Otherwise, as I've been known to say, "Trailer Queen car owners aren't enjoying the car any more than car show spectators, who don't have the cash outlay, storage problems, headaches, etc. </div></div>

And this is what makes me made about this whole thread.

Peter had a chance to bring one or many of his original cars less then 500 miles to Batavia, so the rest of us could see his cars. I saw cars from Texas that drove much farther to the show.

But because of his prejuduces he decided not to come. Consequently he missed 300 + original or restored Buicks and the chance to show others what a good driver they can be.

[Reatta Man]

OK, I've been trying to stay out of this round table, but some of the arguements are bordering on ridiculous.

Take a look at the world around us and then ask yourself if this is worth fighting in or quitting an organization that is basically a HOBBY! Here are a few things to keep in perspective:

1. We are at war with a group of people who hate us for nothing more than the fact that we are Americans or Canadians. They want to kill or hurt YOU and everyone you know and love.

2. This group would love to attack, hurt, injure or kill as many other men, women and children (civilians) as possible using conventional, chemical, biological or nuclear weapons on our food, water or medical systems at any given moment.

3. Many other Americans have died lately and in previous wars to give us the right to do things hundreds of millions of other people dream of but will probably never have the opportunity to do, ranging from voting in a free election to speaking up for or against something without being imprisoned or killed by their dictator-led government.

4. China (the largest remaining communist state) is trying to buy up American companies as fast as they can. And, no, they are NOT our friends.

5. North Korea and Iran are using nuclear weapons or the threat of nuclear weapons to bribe other nations into giving them whatever they want. If they don't get it, they are threatening to blow up anyone and everyone within reach of their missles, bombs or other delivery systems equipped with their nuclear devices.

6. Thousands of people are trying to get your personal information using viruses, spyware, and other electronic means so they can live the high life using your money.

Now, does this arguement about whether using a non-authentic tire, mirror or floor mat in a 40, 50 or 60-year-old Buick STILL seem like such a big deal???

If you really want to do something important,

A. Go do some volunteer work for the USO, Veterans Hospital or a state veterans' nursing home. If you don't have the time, send money.

B. Volunteer your vintage Buick (original OR modified) for the nearest Veterans' Day parade (November 11). Ditto for Memorial Day or July 4th parades in 2006.

C. Hold open a door, shake the hand of, or verbally thank a WWII, Korea, Vietnam or Gulf War veteran.

D. Volunteer to help keep kids off of drugs, sign up people to vote, give blood, read out loud to children in your local library or school, volunteer to teach a class or serve in your church or anything else that will help improve the community YOU live in.

E. Buy an American or Canadian car made IN America or Canada, specifically a new Buick or other GM car.

In other words, <span style="font-weight: bold">LIGHTEN UP!!!!!</span>

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But because of his prejuduces he decided not to come. Consequently he missed 300 + original or restored Buicks and the chance to show others what a good driver they can be. </div></div>

Amen to that!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, does this arguement about whether using a non-authentic tire, mirror or floor mat in a 40, 50 or 60-year-old Buick STILL seem like such a big deal??? </div></div>

Maybe not to some Reatta owners (<span style="font-style: italic">That's not a universal slam--save your air!</span>), but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">YES</span>!</span> I've <span style="font-style: italic">made</span> room in my life to care about cars, the rest is forced on me <span style="font-style: italic">by</span> life.

If you don't care about them, I'm sorry. You're missing much of what this hobby has to offer.

[Guest]

he makes a very good point, Osama I can bet has a modified camel.

It all is coming very clear to me now.

[Reatta Man]

I do care about them, and personally, prefer 20 to 1 an original or well-restored car that looks like it just left Buick City or the showroom of a local Buick dealer. The 1965 Wildcat Custom convertible is as close to original as I can make it without spending so much money that I'm afraid to actually DRIVE it. And, the 1970 GS (real, not cloned) will look the same when I get around to reinstalling the boxes and boxes of parts I removed before having it repainted.

BUT, I refuse to become OBSESSED about them to the point that I refuse to associate with people who like modified, customised, or otherwise less-than-OE examples of Buicks.

[Buicksplus]

Dear Reatta Man:

Please don't confuse the issue about encouraging street rods to the BCA with nitpicking about orignal floor mats, tires, mirrors, hose clamps or paint textures. Speaking for myself, I am mainly interested in original type cars, but have never been a fan of the unending arguments over trivial details as to how these cars were produced originally -- though I think those who do care perform real service in preserving the integrity of the marque's history.

I prefer to stick to the big picture: I am confident no Buicks left the factory with chromed up blown small block chevy engines, Mustang II front ends, flame jobs and the like. No one claims that they did.

The issue is not the color of the floor mats, it is whether or not street rods should be encouraged and celebrated by the BCA. They are going to come to the meets anyway, and rodders are going to be treated cordially by me and most others in the club.

And talk about changing the subject! Yes, there are more important things in the world than whether or not rods are encouraged by BCA. But I thought rods were the subject of this thread.

There, I'm sure you're convinced now!

All the best and don't forget enjoy your Buicks out there.

[Guest]

I am not going to join a modified club.

BCA is a modified club.

AACA is not a modified club by it's bylaws.

[caGSxlr8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to join a modified club.

BCA is a modified club. </div></div>

Last time I checked it was only one part of the club.... If you don't like modified cars, don't go to that area of the show where they are displayed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Rather than chasing trophy after trophy, the rewards that us "purists" should be recieving are (1) the pleasure of driving these fantastic machines, and (2) knowing that we've inspired others to appreciate and possibly preserve them as well. Otherwise, as I've been known to say, "Trailer Queen car owners aren't enjoying the car any more than car show spectators, who don't have the cash outlay, storage problems, headaches, etc. </div></div>

I agree....

I drive my '68 GS as much as I can. I was one of few (less than 15) BCA members who <span style="font-weight: bold">Bothered</span> to show up for the Batavia drag races. My GS is a numbers matching car with most of its original factory components intact.

I ran my car down the track 15 times and loved it. Two days later I picked up a Gold award at the National Meet. You can drive your cars and still do well in a 400 point meet. I enjoy my car and I like to keep it as close to looking like it came from the factory as I can afford to.

There is room for a modified division in the BCA..Do you think if the BCA does not have a modified division people will stop modifying Buicks?

Mike Trom

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Good points Mike, and good to hear it from a drag racing enthusiest (is that spelled right). I don't suppose there were any modified Buicks at the drag strip that day, eh? Some of Buicks proudest moments have been seen at the drag strips when a GS blows the doors off a Chevy SS. How I would love to just ride in one. I use to drag my 67 Chevelle (way back in 68) at Yellow River but regrettably never had the opportunity to get beat by a GS. If so I'd have probably become a Buick lover sooner. There just weren't that many Buicks in the south in those days.

I keep telling myself "Don't even bother reading this thread anymore, it's the same old bull" But then someone brings up a great point such as yours and it makes it worth wading thru it all.

Hopefully they will get the insurance issues re drag racing at the nationals ironed out and there will be drags at Rochester and I'll get to experience "the Ride".

[caGSxlr8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good points Mike, and good to hear it from a drag racing enthusiest (is that spelled right). I don't suppose there were any modified Buicks at the drag strip that day, eh? </div></div>

Mr Earl, I really cannot call myself an enthusiest (spelling?) because it was my first opportunity to run my GS down the track, but I will say it was a lot of fun It would be a shame if the drag racing issues do not get worked out within the BCA

As for the modified Buicks at the races, it would depend on how you would define modified (headers,carb,intake manifold,etc, but Buick motors). There were a few of those and boy cold they run.....

Cheers.....

Mike Trom

[Buicks Rule]

For those who would like to know what the BCA Modified folks are actually doing, check out the thread under BCA Events that lists the BOD meeting minutes and General Membership meeting minutes from the Batavia National Meet. For Example-it is very unlikely that a 48 Roadmaster with a 350 SBC will be allowed. Buick Powered pretty much says it all-don't it!

Another thing. The BCA Driver's class is being evaluated VEEEERRRRYYY rigorously as to originality. For example, adding an auxilary cooling fan to a 48 Roadmaster or even adding a Compound Carb manifold to a 40 ( came out in 41 ) disqualifies the car from the Driver's award. BCA Driven award is a get it/don't get it award so ONE strike and you're out of the running. There seems to be quite a will on the part of club leadership that such minor mods should immediately move the car into the "modified" class.

Read the minutes. Learn what's actually going on. If you don't like it, attend a National Meet or board meeting at speak your mind at the Board or General Membership Meetings. AACA board meetings are absolutely CLOSED to the membership. BCA Board meetings are ABSOLUTELY OPEN.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do care about them, and personally, prefer 20 to 1 an original or well-restored car that looks like it just left Buick City or the showroom of a local Buick dealer....

BUT, I refuse to become OBSESSED about them to the point that I refuse to associate with people who like modified, customised, or otherwise less-than-OE examples of Buicks. </div></div>

I wish all had that healthy an attitude. Dis-associating with rodders is (essentially) leaving the field to them. They're not an enemy, or even a nuisance. They can be a great asset to the authentic hobby and a major source of converts, but they need to be familiar with it. Hide from them and see how fast that happens!

Don't just "allow" them to come to our events and join our clubs. <span style="font-weight: bold">Go to <span style="font-style: italic">Their</span> events!</span> I'm sure a nice running authentic 1927 anything would be a crowd pleaser at any event, including the local "cruise night".

It's a pity that intolerance is keeping that from happening here.

[Buicksplus]

RE BUICKS RULE comment on no SBC's: my eyes aren't what they used to be, but that engine on the Bugle ex-sedanet cover car looks like a gussied up SBC to me. Am I wrong? It does not appear to be a nailhead, though it has Buick looking valve covers on it.....Maybe it is a 400. No mention of how the car is powered in the article.

So SBC's will be turned away at the gates? I thought about 98% of street rods have them, I think you'll find that tough to do.

I do like DM's idea of going to a rod show with an original, I might just try that, might be fun. I can't keep up with them on tours though.