Oil Filter Added when none from Factory?

[HotRodHudson]

I’ve often wanted to add an oil filter to my 37 Hudson’s splasher 212ci straight 6 engine but after I dove into it the waters seemed to just become muddy with opinions of doom & gloom.  Thus after rebuilding the engine around 6 years ago I opted to only use a crazy strong rare earth magnetic drain plug a friend of mine makes.  It is shocking how much it pulled from the oil in the first 250 miles & combined with now 500 mile oil changes its way better than nothing at all.   
 

However I keep revisiting the idea of some kind of oil filtering system so I’d be interested in others opinions on if they did this & how they made it work as well as what kind of system they used.  
 

A little more background: the engine is a splasher system but there is a cam driven oil pump that pumps oil from the pan to the upper splash tray for the dippers to splash from.  If I recall correctly it’s a 4-5 lb pump.  Now there was a guy “Frank Vintage Full flow” who before he passed made a setup that ran two modern oil filters to run on my engine.  Unfortunately his knowledge seems to have passed with him. 
 

 

Edited May 27 by HotRodHudson (see edit history)

[edinmass]

With a splash system and a low pressure and low volume oil pump, making any changes is a risky endeavor. With a modern rebuilt engine everything is clean, and modern oils lubricate and create  almost zero sludge, you’re much more likely to make failures than improvements. I see no advantage to try adding a filter to this car. Change your oil often and forget about it.

[Rusty_OToole]

Did Hudson offer an oil filter as an option? Most car makers did. If so, instructions for how to fit a filter should be in the repair manual. This information should be easy to get among Hudson fans.

The usual method was to take off a small amount of oil and run it thru a bypass filter which dumped back into the oil pan. This method filtered all the oil just not all at once.

[HotRodHudson]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

With a splash system and a low pressure and low volume oil pump, making any changes is a risky endeavor. With a modern rebuilt engine everything is clean, and modern oils lubricate and create  almost zero sludge, you’re much more likely to make failures than improvements. I see no advantage to try adding a filter to this car. Change your oil often and forget about it.

I’m not worried about sludge, however I do worry about some particles floating around in the oil causing problems.  You mentioned any changes is a risky endeavor, why?  There may be risk in a change but one could also argue doing nothing & letting dirty oil run through the engine is more likely to make failures.  
I’d love to see what was actually changed by adding a bypass filter setup or even a full flow setup.  I don’t see adding bypass with a 0.060-0.080” hole as a problem.  

[Akstraw]

I have thought about this myself.  I think it would be important to ensure that the oil pump has sufficient capacity to force the oil through a filter without impairing the overall lubrication flow through the entire system.   The risk is that you could end up starving parts of an engine for lubrication.

 

Ultimately, though, I agree with edinmass.   Run the engine as designed, and change the oil often.

[Rusty_OToole]

According to the factory manual there is a filter screen in the bottom crankcase. You are supposed to remove the oil pan and clean it and the filter screen "seasonally".

 

The oil is drawn up by a 5/8" tube. Wonder if you could put a full flow filter in this tube?

Edited May 28 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[ramair]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

With a splash system and a low pressure and low volume oil pump, making any changes is a risky endeavor. With a modern rebuilt engine everything is clean, and modern oils lubricate and create  almost zero sludge, you’re much more likely to make failures than improvements. I see no advantage to try adding a filter to this car. Change your oil often and forget about it.

I would go with Ed on this one, besides the proverbial “Horses have already left”, on initial start up and break in when the engine was rebuilt you might have caught something . The risk verses reward of trying to bleed off already a limited supply of oil off the low pressure pump without starving the bearings , cam and timing gears, you would be guessing and praying that a little engine noise was not a self inflicted gun shot wound!

[Borough Essex]

I have a driver 1937 Terraplane (same engine as this Hudson) and there are a million things to do on it more important than possibly creating more problems than I solve by adding an oil filter. Yes, the late Frank Hughes, a very interesting man,  experimented with this, but another Hudson guru, the late Walt Mordenti said don't bother with oil filters for splashers. 

[Lee H]

I, and lots of other Model A’ers run full flow oil filters even with the splash low pressure pump with good results.

 

I see the real issue with not running a filter, is that modern oil detergents tend to keep small particles dispersed and suspended, where period non-detergent oils allowed those particles to settle out harmlessly (more or less) as sludge.

[Grimy]

3 hours ago, Lee H said:

where period non-detergent oils allowed those particles to settle out harmlessly (more or less) as sludge.

It's not "harmless" settling when the particles come to rest in oil galleries as well as oil pan.  See photos of "crank turds" from a Pierce engine that had only non-detergent oils.  "Detergent" oils, better termed "dispersant," keep small contaminants in suspension and go out the drain when you change oil.  Any contaminants in the oil galleries during that drain will likely go out the drain on the next change.

[Lee H]

3 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Detergent" oils, better termed "dispersant," keep small contaminants in suspension and go out the drain when you change oil. 

Yeah, I’m in complete agreement. But keeping those small contaminants in suspension (without an oil filter to remove them) and having them continually recirculate for hundreds of miles until drained seems to be slow death for bearings and rings. 

[Grimy]

7 minutes ago, Lee H said:

Yeah, I’m in complete agreement. But keeping those small contaminants in suspension (without an oil filter to remove them) and having them continually recirculate for hundreds of miles until drained seems to be slow death for bearings and rings. 

Before switching to dispersant oils, clean out the oil pan, oil pump, and galleries as best you can.  In the photos I provided, what volume of oil do you suppose is getting through the deposits anyway?  Five percent?

[Lee H]

26 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Before switching to dispersant oils, clean out the oil pan, oil pump, and galleries as best you can.  In the photos I provided, what volume of oil do you suppose is getting through the deposits anyway?  Five percent?

I believe I may have given you the impression of defending non-detergent oils. I’m not at all. I think they are lousy, and the only justification for using them MAY be because you cannot adopt some form of filtration that is compatible with removing the contaminants that tend to float around in modern oils, and if left recirculating in suspension, can wipe out bearings over some (shorter than nominal) period of time.

Of course there is no data I’m aware of which would compare engine longevity of a) using modern detergent oil without a filter, and allowing contaminants to recirculate, vs. b) using lousy non-detergent oil, thus allowing those contaminants to settle out. It probably depends a great deal on the individual engine design, and size/configuration of the passages. My gut tells me those options are equally bad when compared to running modern oil with a filter.

 

 

[HotRodHudson]

A lot of very good ideas on the subject and I appreciate them all!  
Fortunately when I rebuilt the engine everything was cleaned out, likewise the pan & pan screens were all intact & excellent condition as can be seen in my original post.   

Yep, since I use modern oils & they keeping particles suspended in the oil more than the original oils thats what worries me, something floating around causing problems.  Even though I’ve been changing oil every 250 miles or once a year, it would be nice to have cleaner oil during the time between changes.  Definitely not many miles put on her & I could easily continue to just do frequent oil changes.  

 

Someone hit the nail when discussing how much oil flow it currently flows vs how much it needs.  If those things were known I’d be able to make a more educated decision on either a bypass or full flow system is safe to do.  

Borough Essex, you’re correct there are sooooo many things on these old cars to do & I’ve done a ton but still a ton more to do!  I did a clutch two winters ago & as you all can imagine had a lot of additional repairs to do along the way.  Fortunately I’m able to do it all myself, even the Transmission replacement of the phenolic washer with a bronze one I had made was done.  

Walt was one I did & still do look to (read) his old articles, he knew his stuff so well… He was a huge loss to the mark.  
 

This was my pan when I removed it years ago.  I’m planning on another pan removal & cleaning this winter:

 

The Clutch, Trans, etc, etc repairs:

[HotRodHudson]

This was the problem from a phenolic transmission washer, just like the phenolic cam thrust washer, they dissolve over time.  I made a bronze washer so no one long after I’m gone will ever have this problem again:

 

Here is the after replacement of the transmission washer, no movement.  I’d venture to say 75% or more of the Hudson transmissions are missing the washer & unfortunately tranny wear follows…. A slow death!

 

 

[Gerczak]

So I dropped my pan to clean it up yesterday on my 1937 212 6 cylinder and take care of any build-up and do an inspection.  There was not that much build-up in the pan but I am glad I took apart.  I noticed some of my screens are detached.  Any recommendations on how to reattach them?  They look like they were factory spot welded. 

 

Also while looking around I noticed I have a crack on the bottom of my intake manifold.  If anyone has a spare they are will to sell, I would be interested in that too.

 

Thanks for any advice or leads in advance.

[edinmass]

You can solder the screens in place........that is how most were done pre 1936.......

[Lee H]

On 5/28/2024 at 5:27 PM, HotRodHudson said:

I made a bronze washer so no one long after I’m gone will ever have this problem again

Well…maybe. You may want to consider not running (many?) modern GL-5 rated lubricants with that. Just in brief, the EP additives in many gear lubes are sulfurous, and corrosive to yellow metals like bronze. If the manufacturer provides it, look for a 1 or 1A rating for ASTM D-130. Attached is a statement from Redline, an example Gulf gear lube PDS with poor results, and the pertinent test grades from ASTM.  
 

Again, not sure this pertains to all lubes, just a warning to do your homework.

[HotRodHudson]

Excellent point Lee!  I’m not sure what exactly I used but did research it well at the time.  I’m currently “suffering pool side” at a resort in Punta Cana after our oldest daughter’s wedding, so I’ll double check when I return.  👍🏻

[HotRodHudson]

Found this looking on line:

[Lee H]

16 hours ago, HotRodHudson said:

Found this looking on line:

Good information, thank you! It is important to me because the B-W overdrive in my ‘41 has yellow metal parts; I wanted the heavier 140w multigrade, and synthetic, and it is difficult to find that combination. This is what I currently run with (apparent) success.

[ArticiferTom]

Look at Sta-Lube  140SAE Company been around since 1928 GL-4 .

[nsbrassnut]

A bit of a late addition to the conversation but perhaps something to remember.

 

When retro fitting a oil filter to a car one needs to review where the filter is relative to the oil pressure indication. For some early pump/splash systems like my '14 Hudson the outlet of the oil pump tees and one branch feeds the engine the other branch goes to the oil pressure gauge. If a filter was added to the engine supply line, the pressure gauge would still read good oil pressure even with a partially or fully plugged oil filter. This may apply to too many cars, but something to keep in mind.

 

I did retrofit a by pass oil filter on my '36 Packard 120 several years ago. The supply line to the filter is tapped from the camshaft oil gallery (there already was a factory plug) and the filter outlet drains to the sump. The oil line to the oil pressure gauge is tapped into a different spot on the camshaft oil gallery (factory installation). After the installation of the filter the idle pressure read 3-4 psi lower than before. Once up to speed the pressure is pretty much the same. I'm of the school that volume of flow is as important (or more) than pressure, I'm not overly concerned by the difference. The filter does help though. It takes twice as long for the oil to go black than it did without it.