1929 Fargo Express Panel Update

[Jack Bennett]

Since I bought the 1929 Fargo Express Panel a few months ago, I have concentrated most of my efforts to get the sheet metal and rotten woodwork back into a condition I could determine if the truck was even repairable.

I have managed to fit enough pieces of the rotten wood together to make a relatively accurate set of patterns, and have managed to complete fabrication of most of the wooden body parts. The doors were a real task since the regulators were broken, badly bent and rusted beyond recognition. The windows were both broken with most of the glass missing. These I have replaced with plexiglass, and I personally think they look better than the glass originals.

The original flathead six cylinder engine had been left outside with four of the six spark plugs missing, and the bores had sat since, at least, 1976 full of nasty water and debris. The engine was locked up and four of the six cylinder bores was badly rusted and deeply pitted.

So, rather than beat a dead horse by attempting to rebuild a engine, I could never determine a model for, with no transmission or drive shaft, I elected to replace the 1929 engine with the engine and transmission from a 1951 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup.

This was a learning experience since the Canadian built Fargo engine had a 25” head, and the pickup engine was only 23”. That measurement gradually evolved into a 7” difference between the motor mounts, and entailed moving the 1951 engine 7” toward the truck rear to place it in the rear mounts and allow the fabrication of new front mounts.

The change back to the spring daylight savings plan gave me enough daylight to get the engine complete and ready to run.

So today the 1951 Dodge, 218 CI engine started and ran like a new one.

OH, that is if a new one had a leaking fuel pump, a broken fuel pump settling bulb and a leaking carburetor.

The original engine I removed from the truck used an odd looking electric fuel pump so I took the electric fuel pump I’d installed in my 1951 Plymouth Cambridge, hooked it up to the Fargo engine, and it works great….But, as I said, the carburetor started leaking. 
I have a few problems though and I need some help. 
The original radiator, with honeycomb water passages leaks too bad to even think about repairing it myself.

And, the clutch pedal on the 1951 bell housing is about 5 or 6 inches too far to the left of the steering column to fit into the firewall slots which would allow it to be fully depressed.

And, the biggy…..the original, 1929, engine I removed from the truck used a electric push button, mounted on the engine bell housing, to engage the electrically operated starter.

The 1951 Dodge engine has a manually operated starter, with a yoke mounted atop the bendix housing on the starter, and the starter is engaged by pressing (with your foot) on a pad mounted to the floorboard.

I need to fabricate a device which mounts to the floorboards, and is used to depress the extension on the starter. 
I won’t tie up space here by trying to detail how it works because, if you don’t have it, the explanation would not help anyway.

But, if you do have a 1950’s vintage dodge pickup, with a manually engaged starter, I would really appreciate a few photos of the device to give me a idea where to go with this.

Jack

 

Edited March 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Glad you are back! This is one of my most favorite sagas…….

[Jack Bennett]

While not the discovery of King Tut’s tomb, or even finding the lost White House corner stone, in Tacoma, Washington archeology, this rates as a ten on a scale of 1 to 10.

I have nearly finished up all the wood work of the cab and bed on then 1929 Fargo Express Panel, and am now preparing the sheet metal for re-installation.

During this procedure I use a surface preparation tool, large and small grinders, a small sander and steel and copper brushes.

If you have the picture, it isn’t hard to imagine the amount of metal and paint which can be laid to waste very quickly.

But, sometime this is destructive, and can actually destroy the historical information shed along with the metal and paint.

Thankfully, I was able to move from a power sander and grinder when I found very fragile lettering under the old coat of black paint covering the side panel of the truck bed.

So, I discarded the haste of getting the panel prepared for painting, and instead went into the preservation mode and switched to using a scraper and a awl to carefully remove the rust, crud and paint.

I dote on history, and the origin and use of my old vehicles is as important as the metal, wood and rubber they are made of.

In this case I found, concealed under the flaking paint a hint at what sort of job the Fargo Express Panel done during its service life.

We all Know Kenworth, but I had not heard of the “Federal” truck brand  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Truck_Company until I began stripping the layers of past from the Fargo’s bed.

This made my day, and I am seriously considering on using the “ROBERTS MOTOR COMPANY”  logo on the repainted truck bed panels……….

Comments are welcome and will be part of my decision as to how the truck will be finished.

Jack

Edited March 25 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Just a bit of Deja Vu.

In case you missed it, in the comments on the link I provided, Federal trucks were equipped with the same Willys sleeve valve engine you will find under the hood of my 1927 Willys Knight 70A, and were marketed under the brand “Federal Knight”…….and the circle is completed in the Bennett stable.

Jack

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

To sum up my thoughts in few words……..YES! Your truck has an identifiable past life, it must be honored!

[1912 Minerva]

Great find Jack! Would you possibly consider a clear varnish over the top of that original lettering? It would preserve the history yet still have a shiny finish to match whatever other fresh painting you do.  As you say, being able to show off the past history of the vehicle's use is invaluable.

[Walt G]

Remarkable is the only word that comes immediately to mind when I see all of this and your reports of progress and discovery.

thank you for taking the time to share with us your on going saga of preservation.

Walt

[Jack Bennett]

7 hours ago, 1912 Minerva said:

Great find Jack! Would you possibly consider a clear varnish over the top of that original lettering? It would preserve the history yet still have a shiny finish to match whatever other fresh painting you do.  As you say, being able to show off the past history of the vehicle's use is invaluable.

Hi 1912 Minerva…….How very strange you suggest that. 
I had nearly finished sanding one panel of the truck side, and I noticed flecks of red and white paint mixed with the green base paint.

So, I set aside the surface preparation tool and reverted my scraping to a razor blade.

All that was left of the lettering on that panel was the numbers 123-***, but everything had been erased with the paint removal.

So, I stopped working on the first panel and began carefully removing the paint on the second panel with a small scraper.

Sadly, there was no number on the second panel, and I thought the rest of the letters had became unreadable too.

But, a few more minutes of scraping began revealing letters, and the first thought in my mind was putting the clear varnish I’d bought to do the cab inside to a new use.

What a cool idea!

It will be a tedious task to scrape all the old black paint off, and remove the badly rusted parts of the panel without damaging the lettering……but, isn’t this what it’s all about?

Thanks for the suggestion. With my tiny 750 megabyte memory it will be easy to find as I work my way through this.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

Remarkable is the only word that comes immediately to mind when I see all of this and your reports of progress and discovery.

thank you for taking the time to share with us your on going saga of preservation.

Walt

Hello Walt……Having a single track mind, and even more focalized as I work on these old machines, I immediately Googled “FEDERAL” and “KENWORTH”, thinking they would return a location where the truck may have been used.

Instead the results always came up with “KENWORTH” being a truck, and no cities named “FEDERAL”. We do have a “Federal Way” not far from Tacoma, but the truck was bought over 200 miles away in Oregon.

So, I Googled just the word “Federal”, and the truck brand “FEDERAL” popped up, and a new link to my 1927 Willys Knight was opened.

That sort of history makes my timbers shiver, and I just had to share it.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

14 hours ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

To sum up my thoughts in few words……..YES! Your truck has an identifiable past life, it must be honored!

Hi Jeff……I have been continually cautioned that assigning names, and personifying a machine, or any other inanimate object is extremely dangerous to the maintenance of a suitable social status, and may possibly result in irreversible mental damage.

This considered, I neither assign names or personalities to my old cars until they are “reanimated” and I have returned them to a level of operability.

Still, there is credence to what you say, and it is a necessity, rather than a just a part, of living with these old machines that we move them beyond the “just another car” stage of existence.

It hurts a seventy-plus year old body as much when it is cut by the sharp metal of a new Cadillac Escalade as it does when cut by the metal of a 100 year old Dodge Roadster.

But, the Escalade is parked in the driveway while the roadster sits comfortably in the well lit, and heated, garage.

A mental search may reveal that the Dodge is considered to be “family”, and the Escalade will never be more than “transportation”.

And having a precious relative with no name, or past, is simply unimaginable.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

I will continue my search for more information regarding the location and history of the “Robert’s Motor Company”.

But as is expected, the smooth road of a otherwise benign search often contains bumps which are as interesting as they are distracting.

If you bleed 30 weight and sweat kerosene, this link may be as interesting as it is distracting https://oldmachinepress.com/2014/10/25/roberts-motor-company-aircraft-engines/

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

Weather really stinks today in Washington State. Rain all day and cold enough you can see your breath.

Even for a hard core guy like me, this isn’t the sort of weather I consider fit for a fellow to be working outside.

So I took the opportunity to do some sheet metal work on the Fargo, and have nearly gotten one fender ready for primer and paint.

The past couple of days have been nice enough that I have gotten the wooden parts of the bed finished and in place. But, I still need to cut the boards which make the floor of the bed and attach the metal flooring to it.

 

[Jack Bennett]

Today is a total bust in regards to working on the Fargo.

Wet weather I can stand, and cold weather I can stand…..but cold, wet weather just doesn’t appeal to me as being conducive to working outside on a old truck.

So, today I may start on re upholstering the back of the seat, and start shopping for springs to fabricate a lower part of the seat.

Yesterday was a bummed out day too with hail, rain, wind and gloom, but I did get the boards which form the base of the bed nailed down, and the sheet metal cover reinstalled.

A real plus to the days labor was determining that the flange which connects 

the 1951 Dodge pickup drive shaft to the four speed transmission appears to be the same bolt pattern used to connect a drive shaft to the 1929 Fargo rear end.

I have not actually fit this up to determine it as being fact, but I made patterns of both the rear end input shaft, and the Dodge front drive shaft flange, and by all appearances they are the same.

This is a huge load off my shoulders because I have been sweating having a new drive shaft fabricated, and the rear flange made up to fit it.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

As I tore the panels and decking from the metal frame of the Fargo, I found piles of indistinguishable pieces of rotted wood which had been confined and concealed for possibly decades.

There was badly rusted bolts, with the (square) nuts and washers still attached, and little shards of wood, clearly cut square, with holes drilled in them.

Even rhe larger, and somewhat distinguishable pieces of wood, which literally fell apart as the bolts and screws which held them together was cut, gave no clue as to what the smaller pieces was used for.

Now, over a month into the reconstruction of the wooden portion of the body, and some really vexing minutes trying to figure out why my measurements were so far off in fitting the pieces back together, I made a monumental discovery.

I had done basically the same thing to reconstruct the badly rotted frame of the 1927 Willys Knight I bought a few years back. And the most notable thing about the construction of the car was the craftsmanship which went into piecing the frame together.

I was truly amazed at the formed corners and finger joint attachments holding the frame together, and blending it into a super strong unit, although it consisted of many tiny pieces of a number of assorted wood types.

Totally baffeled by the mountain of seemingly useless debris I had collected as I disassembled the Fargo, I decided, rather than “think outside the box” I needed to “discard what I thought the box should look like”, and take some time to reconstruct the framework as near to what it was originally, and use the debris to fill in the vacant spots.

It made me as happy as it disappointed me to discover that the debris was actually pieces of material the workers had used during assembly of the framework to correct errors in measurement, and to economize use of every piece of wood available.

In the construction of the Willys, it seems as though they used a plan with dimensions layer out whereby they could use two 7” pieces of wood, joined together by a finger joint at the center to make a 14” long piece, glued and supported by planning the intersection of other pieces. But, on the Fargo it looks like they took, to accomplish the same thing, a piece of wood 12” long, bolted it to the nearest cross piece, and the took a 2” long piece of scrap and used it to fill in the vacant 2” to make it meet a nailed corner piece.

Consequently, the extreme amount of stuructural damage found in the Fargo, but not in the Willys, is due to shoddy construction practices and a G-a-S attitude regarding the quality of construction materials used to fabricate the Fargo.

The term we use to describe a modern version of this atrocity is a “Friday” or a “Monday” car. This quip suffices to explain, in as few words as possible, how the days of the week affected the level of pride and attentiveness the workers employed as they assembled the car. Those showing for work on Monday were worn out from the weekend and possibly hung over from a two day drinking binge. Those leaving work on Friday didn’t mind if a shoddy job was necessary to complete a task prior to starting a weekend, and possibly, begin a two day long drinking binge.

It appears though, that the Canadians involved in the construction of the Fargo, didn’t even own a calendar, and every morning was a Monday, and every afternoon was a Friday.

No complaints though, because now that I have figured this out, I no longer need math skills to finish the project. I just estimate the length of a piece, cut it way too long, and chop it off how ever many times it takes to make it fit…….and that folks, is what makes this hobby so dang fun.🤪.

Jack

Edited March 30 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

The weather here in Washington State is a daily mix of WOW! and wow……but it is finally warm enough by mid-day that I can get a few hours work done on the Frgo.

Today was a pretty good day in Fargo terms, and I made some noteworthy progress toward the reanimation of the old man.

Exchanging the original 1929, 25” six cylinder engine for the 230 cubic inch, 1951 Dodge pickup six cylinder, 23” engine posed a few problems with the brake, clutch, starter and gas pedals, which complicated cutting and installing new floor boards in the cab. 
At the close of the business day in Fargo Land, many of these bumps have been smoothed out.

The transmission, clutch have been installed and the pedals have been cut and bent to fit the Dodge bell housing and the Fargo firewall. 
This put me to a point I was able to measure the length of the drive shaft I need to connect the Dodge transmission to the Fargo rear end.

A new master cylinder has replaced the unserviceable one in the truck so this leaves only the rear brake cylinders to worry about.

A guy on Facebook marketing advertises he has Dodge driveshafts for sale so maybe a trip to Puyallup is in the offing over the next few days.

Bottom line to all this ambling is that “Mite”, the 1929 Fargo Express Panel just may be able to move under his own power, for the first time in at least fifty years, by this time next week.

Jack

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

That will be an EXCITING day, Jack.   Pulling for you.

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

That will be an EXCITING day, Jack.   Pulling for you.

 

  Ben

Thank you Ben. Just a note for any spatially impaired eighty year old guy, who still thinks they occupy a 18 year old body, and decides putting a massive four speed gear box, in a tiny truck intended for a three speed box will be easy………think again because it isn’t.

There was a time that I considered cutting out the frame cross member which runs under the seat because the pickup truck emergency brake operating mechanism doesn’t have clearance to fit.

Thankfully, I still had a can of MGD left and decided to drink it instead of grabbing my zip tool. Then it occurred to me that the emergency brake on the transmission was intended to fit a 1951 Dodge pickup, which apparently uses a banana shaped pull handle located under the left side of the truck dash board.

I plan on fabricating a floor mounted lever, which I suppose is more original to a 1929 Fargo than a 1951 Dodge Pilothouse pickup, Fortunately I have a couple of transmissions left over from building the 1923 Roadster, and one of them has a complete lever operated emergency brake, with the lever and the little toothy piece which mounts on the gear box and keeps the handle engaged in the hold position.

The new voltage regulator should arrive in the mail today or tomorrow and the cutout switch on the generator will be updated to a voltage regulator.

Meanwhile, I have a old friend who does plasma cutting as a hobby, and I will see if he will cut me a new mount to adapt the emergency brake handle to the Fargo.

I’ll post a bit more as “Mite” returns to life……..thanks for your input and encouragement.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

The past couple of weeks has been filled with anticipation as I get nearer the day when I can drive my 1929 Fargo Express Panel from my back yard.

Very probably the way we place a value on our old car projects, as compared to that of a spanking new Denali, is something we never even consider. 
Too often I compare the amount of pleasure and sense of accomplishment I get from doing some simple something to my old truck to that of the pilot of the huge C-17 aircraft gliding effortlessly a few thousand feet above my head.
Surely the Captain of the awesome Trident submarine, silently plying the depths of the ocean, realizes more pleasure from commanding a fearsome war machine than a 80 year old guy can get from reanimating a 95 year old panel truck or a 100 year old roadster.

I can’t help but feel a certain amount of embarrassment when I think these things because it resembles a person who sneaks into a almond grove in California in hopes of going home with a nice bunch of bananas.

If you visit the maintenance hangers at JBLM McChord air field, here in Tacoma, or the Naval shipyard at Bremerton, you can find the C-17 air craft, or the Trident submarine, with the pilot and the captain nowhere in sight or or sound. But, if you check their home garage you just may find them under the hood of their old collector car or taking it for a spin in the country.

The immense difference is the immeasurable expanse which separates something you do as a vocation and something you do as a hobby.

In my case I need not sit in the seat of the C-17 as it soars above me at 40,000 feet, nor must I don my deep sea diving gear to appreciate the enormity of the Trident, because they will both return to roost eventually, and all I need to do is walk around them to view their magnificence.

On the other hand, our old machines offer us the opportunity to be our best as our responsibilities as custodians of a slice of the past is concerned.

Circling back (I know this has became a overworked government phrase, but I am borrowing it, regardless) to the the first paragraph of this post, I have made a tad of progress toward the time I can call my old machine a truck again.

The 1951 Dodge engine and transmission I replaced the original truck engine with has a number of differences which presents another layer of mental challenges.

Keeping the panel as near to its original appearance as possible is a real challenge when it comes to repair or replacement of a part as easily identified as being modern or antique as an emergency brake operating mechanism.

And this is what keeps the hobby interesting since it makes the difference between a 1929 Fargo panel emergency brake, floor mounted with a long, trigger equipped handle, and a 2024 Dodge Daytona SRT with its tiny pedal and fancy dash light.

Anyway, I am at the stage of reanimating the Fargo that it can now move under its own power, and (with unabashed exuberance) I now have to repair, or replace, the parts of the panel necessary to stop it.

As I mentioned some time ago, I had a couple of Dodge Brothers transmissions left over after I completed the build of my 1923 Dodge Brothers roadster, and the emergency brake set up on the 1924 vintage transmission invited conversion to fit the transmission of a 1951 Dodge Pilothouse pickup truck, installed under the hood of a 1929 Fargo Express Panel truck.

Without the high registration costs associated with owning a C-17, or the parking problems one would expect if their primary means of conveyance was a Trident submarine, I achieved the same level of accomplishment when I pull the long, trigger equipped emergency brake handle I have now installed in my old truck, and it stops.

Pleasure is a fleeting feeling, and gratification may be no more than a chef watching a group eat their food, but it sure feels good when a brain conspires with a 80 year old body and the results is looking at a completely flat floor board and, resting below it, is a device capable of stopping a 1/2 ton truck with little effort.

 

 

 

Edited May 10 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

More challenges in Fargo Land as I ready the brakes of the 1929 Fargo Express to stop in circumstances short of hitting a huge, stationary object.

This particular truck, to my amazement, has hydraulic brakes on all four wheels.

Coming off the projects of my 1927 Willys Knight, which has internal, expanding shoe, front brakes, and external, constricting rear brakes, all mechanically operated, and my 1923 Dodge Brothers roadster, which also has mechanical brakes, but only external constricting bands, on the rear, I was surprised at the level of technology invested in building the Fargo service brake system.

However, all three cars have in common the way the rear drums are pressed onto axle, and a puller is (normally) required to remove them.

The major difficulty in restoration of the Willys brakes was not getting the hubs off as fabrication of a puller for these hubs was fairly easy. But, fabrication of a device needed to center the front brake shoes was another lengthy project.

The Dodge Brothers Roadster was a different set of issues since it only has rear expansion type brakes. But removal of the hubs still requires that the hub be removed from the axle to replace bad rusted and bent bolts and renew the spokes.

This procedure would normally be accomplished using a hub puller specifically made for the rear axles of this car, and was probably available as a tool which could be bought from a Dodge Brothers dealer.

However, I found that a 5 ton, three arm hub puller and a NGK bearing spanner, number 14, screws on the part of the hub, threaded for this purpose, works well too.

However, the rear brake drums on the Fargo, albeit they are exactly the same sort of hub removal procedure and tools as was expected with the Willys and the roadster, have presented a set of difficulties which have been both a delay in repair of the brakes as well as giving me a real headache.

The same sort of NGK bearing spanner as I used on the other two cars would seemingly work as well on the Fargo rear hubs as it did on the others, but, it appears, that the word “simple” isn’t to be found in the Fargo vernacular.

McGuire bearing is a resource in getting parts for these old machines, and they have a copious quantity of NGK bearing spanner, which should easily screw onto the threads of the hub.

Note how easily it is to say that when actually doing it seems to be a impossibility because the number 13 NGK spanner is a bit too small (in diameter), and the size 14 NGK spanner is too big and slops on the threads.

Normally, if I can’t find something of this sort from McGuire bearing, Tacoma Screw Products can usually help by either stocking the part for sell, or give me some advice as to where else I may find it.

In the case of a device to screw onto the hub of the Fargo, and allow use of a puller to remove it, neither could help.

It appears the hub is cast iron, and welding lugs to it to connect to the arms of the puller seems to be a project which invites destruction of the hun as well as the wooden spokes it contains.

So, I am rethinking the nature of this delay and somewhere in the quagmire comes the fact that the truck was made in Canada, which means it was probably made using metric measurements, and the NGK spanner was made in the USA, which makes it a probable SAE measurement.

So, I have asked McGuire bearing to order me a size 13 spanner, in metric, rather than SAE measurement, from their warehouse in Oregon, and hopefully that will be the tool I need to finish up the rear brakes on the Fargo.

Wish me luck, I’ll post how the new spanner works, when I get it, and have either removed the hubs, or consoled myself with another cold MGD.

Jack

Edited May 10 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Dammit, Jack, you da man!!

 

  I enjoy reading your posts. Always SOMETHING new.  

 

  Keep on keeping on.

 

  Ben

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Jack

 

A couple observations that may help you avoid an unpleasant experience.

Canada didn't even talk about metric until the '70's and it took several years after that for metric to work its way into manufacturing. And its still a mix of metric and imperial fasteners here today. Anything made here by a Canadian branch of a US manufacturer back then would have used the similar tooling and threading to the US parent company in 99.9% of the time.

 

I would recommend that you dig out a thread gauge and measure the threads per inch that you are trying to thread onto. The thread profiles and threads per inch are likely standard SAE/US pattern. But the thread diameter and threads per inch are going to be specific to the manufacturer and not typical SAE standard thread pitch/diameter combination. This especially applies if you are referring to the threads on the hub where the hubcap goes. The manufacturer's picked their own thread diameter for those, but will still usually use one of the standard threads per inch since the threading machines had the tooling for them.

 

The threads on the end of the axle shaft itself should be a standard thread pitch and diameter, and not metric.

 

Threading a metric nut on an US/imperial/SAE thread is more by luck than plan. And it will damage the threads of both if the nut is turned down more than a couple threads.

 

The hubcap threads often need to be chased to clean them up from years of dirt and banging around. There are tool options for those that can help. They aren't the greatest, but they will help clean up the hub threads enough make it easier to get the hubcap on and to get the right hub puller on.

 

Here is an example of the style that I have used on wheel hubs to clean up damaged threads enough for hubcaps and hub removers.

 

https://www.amazon.ca/7402-Universal-Outside-Thread-Chaser/dp/B07XHRHB3Q/ref=asc_df_B07XHRHB3Q/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=596674500123&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18323024892818202669&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000096&hvtargid=pla-897821426360&psc=1&mcid=8c02b9e4f7e73090bdf950167efceb86

[Mark Shaw]

Jack,

     I sent a PM regarding hub pullers.  What OD & TPI are the hub threads?

 

[JV Puleo]

The hubcap threads are almost certainly 16TPI. That was the SAE standard for "extra fine" threads larger than 1-1/2". (This from the 1925 SAE handbook.) By the time your truck was built virtually everyone was using the standard threads so any hubcap of the correct diameter should screw on. The threads are probably worn and burred so it may not be easy. I'd put a little grinding paste on them and gently thread on a cap working it back and forth until it seats. That is called thread lapping and I've used it many times to get a really smooth but tight fit with threaded parts.

 

If the threads are really banged up I'd use a thread file and then lap a cap on.

Edited May 14 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[nsbrassnut]

Just to back up what JV described.

 

I took my thread gauge and checked out a few wood wheel hubcaps in my hubcap collection. I was expecting some variation since they do have a variety of diameters. But I was surprised to find that nearly every one that I checked was 16 tpi. The only oddball one was the Ford T which has a finer thread of 24(?) tpi.

 

Caps checked included Dodge (26ish), Star, Buick, Studebaker, Chrysler, Nash, Willys Knight, Oakland, Buick, Stanley.

[Jack Bennett]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:39 PM, JV Puleo said:

The hubcap threads are almost certainly 16TPI. That was the SAE standard for "extra fine" threads larger than 1-1/2". (This from the 1925 SAE handbook.) By the time your truck was built virtually everyone was using the standard threads so any hubcap of the correct diameter should screw on. The threads are probably worn and burred so it may not be easy. I'd put a little grinding paste on them and gently thread on a cap working it back and forth until it seats. That is called thread lapping and I've used it many times to get a really smooth but tight fit with threaded parts.

 

If the threads are really banged up I'd use a thread file and then lap a cap on.

Hi JV Pulvo………I love this post, and I admire your ability to put the words to paper. I have measured the threads, with a thread gauge, and believe them to be 16 TPI, and you are right that they have really been buggered over the past 3/4 century.

I have some lapping paste left over from doing the valves on the 23 Dodge, and I have a thread file I have never used.

I have been communicating with Articifer Tom and Mark Shaw, and between the experience offered by Tom, the different pullers offered by Mark and my relentless quest to unbugger the brakes, I think we can eventually overcome this bump in the road.

I still have oodles of work to do on the sheet metal and wood frame, but I do have the drive train (short of the rear brakes), the suspension and steering nearly finished, and can now start and move the truck around the yard.

Thanks for the advice and the helpful input of information. It is appreciated.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

On 5/13/2024 at 3:02 PM, Mark Shaw said:

Jack,

     I sent a PM regarding hub pullers.  What OD & TPI are the hub threads?

 

Hello Mark……I can see that this was posted on May 13, and over a week has passed since that time without any acknowledgement from me.

In that respect I am sorry because I do appreciate the support, advice and offer of material help from all you folks.

In this case I haven’t visited this thread for a while and your posts slipped by while I tended to the other threads I have active.

I talked to Articifer Tom (on the telephone) for quite some time yesterday, and he says that you are the guy who can help me get over the hump, get the hubs removed, and finish up the brakes on the Fargo.

Truthfully, I am at wits end on what else I can do to get the hubs off without irreparable damage to the hub, the axle and maybe even the ring and pinion gears, if I keep heating, pulling and banging on them.

In most other areas of the Fargo arena progress seems to be going pretty well. I am ready to close up the top so that I can level the body and bed and put the bolts in which will mount the body permanently to the frame.

The floor boards are nearly complete, the fabrication of the starter button (mounted to the floor board) is nearing completion, and all the parts I need to finish permanent mount of the cowl and front fenders are finished and can be installed after the floor boards are in place.

The electrical system is another project that should not take too long considering the most difficult part will be installing new wiring to support two newly refurbished OooooooooooooooGaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaa horns and replacement of the generator cutout with a voltage regulator.

Hope to hear from you soon, and, again, I apologize for the length of time it took me to answer your post.

Jack

[Mark Shaw]

Jack,

     I just need to know if you want to buy or borrow the puller I posted with photos with measurements.

 

Either way, I need your "ship to address".

 

Please advise,

Mark Shaw

Vancouver, WA USA

[Jack Bennett]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:02 AM, nsbrassnut said:

Hi Jack

 

A couple observations that may help you avoid an unpleasant experience.

Canada didn't even talk about metric until the '70's and it took several years after that for metric to work its way into manufacturing. And its still a mix of metric and imperial fasteners here today. Anything made here by a Canadian branch of a US manufacturer back then would have used the similar tooling and threading to the US parent company in 99.9% of the time.

 

I would recommend that you dig out a thread gauge and measure the threads per inch that you are trying to thread onto. The thread profiles and threads per inch are likely standard SAE/US pattern. But the thread diameter and threads per inch are going to be specific to the manufacturer and not typical SAE standard thread pitch/diameter combination. This especially applies if you are referring to the threads on the hub where the hubcap goes. The manufacturer's picked their own thread diameter for those, but will still usually use one of the standard threads per inch since the threading machines had the tooling for them.

 

The threads on the end of the axle shaft itself should be a standard thread pitch and diameter, and not metric.

 

Threading a metric nut on an US/imperial/SAE thread is more by luck than plan. And it will damage the threads of both if the nut is turned down more than a couple threads.

 

The hubcap threads often need to be chased to clean them up from years of dirt and banging around. There are tool options for those that can help. They aren't the greatest, but they will help clean up the hub threads enough make it easier to get the hubcap on and to get the right hub puller on.

 

Here is an example of the style that I have used on wheel hubs to clean up damaged threads enough for hubcaps and hub removers.

 

https://www.amazon.ca/7402-Universal-Outside-Thread-Chaser/dp/B07XHRHB3Q/ref=asc_df_B07XHRHB3Q/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=596674500123&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18323024892818202669&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000096&hvtargid=pla-897821426360&psc=1&mcid=8c02b9e4f7e73090bdf950167efceb86

Hi nsbrassnut…….I just visited the Amazon site and looked at the thread chaser they advertise there.

Very possibly, the most recent time I used one of these was in the mid 1980’s when I worked on a fleet of armored trucks in Seattle.

No reflection on my memory, or the loss of it, but this sort of thing has escaped my mind, and has therefore not been considered for use on the truck.

I am coordinating with another forum member for the use of a hub puller and do appreciate the information regarding the thread chaser if there is any chance whatsoever that the threads may be of a condition to damage those on the puller.

I will post some follow-up photos as I negotiate this phase of reanimating the Fargo. Thanks for your help and advice…..it is welcome and appreciated.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

To ease the burden being borne by those who feel the compelling need to offer critical criticism regarding the less than perfect work I am doing on the Fargo, I offer this short lamentation as a attempt to explain this sad situation.

The Fargo is dead! It died several decades ago, and were it not hidden in the dark rear corner of a parts storage barn, it would have been shredded many years ago.

These cars, while built sturdy enough to survive the rigors of their normal life expectancy as commercial servants, were not built, or even intended to be around, for another 100 years post their normal expiration dates.

This truck is a exception to this rule, rather than a follower of the rule and, granted it has cheated the grim reaper of antiquated machines, it has done so in a extremely poor manner.

The truck is essentially a steel frame with a thin sheet metal skin over yards of wooden body framework.

Time, and the elements, have not been kind to this contributor to history and a vital link to understanding the innovation of our mechanically inclined forefathers, and their drive to make our economy the envy of the world.

What was once the pride of a wheel right, as they watched their spoke shave turn out perfectly formed hickory spokes, and the master craftsman make the hundreds of incredibly large, as well as remarkably tiny wood pieces which makes up the truck body, has long since been replaced by rot, mold, mildew and countless vacant spaces.

Hopefully, this explanation is sufficient to afford a understanding that there is so scant little left of the original truck, and what is left is so deteriorated that, while replacement of the wood is possible, and is being accomplished as a number of ongoing projects. But,  the extent of metal damage, and loss of its integrity, is beyond any reasonable expectations that repairs would have any permanence, and, without replacement of the entire metal skin of the truck, it would be both a waste of material as well as economically irresponsible since the other components of the truck, I.e. steering, suspension, braking, electrical, fuel storage supply and delivery, upholstery and glass are prone to failure at any moment.

So, I am attempting to do exactly what I do…….and that is treat the truck as a object of attention which earns its keep by providing a outlet as a toy used in the furtherance of a hobby.

My intents are to return the truck to a semblance of its original appearance, when it worked as a laborer, not a object  to be adored or admired by the Robert’s Motor Company as they unceremoniously loaded a Federal truck transmission or Kenworth truck engine into its scarred bed to be delivered to another company which needs these components to keep its trucks rolling, and the families of its employees clothed and fed.

But, that effort also affords me the escape clause which says……”This is a hobby, not a vocation”. “The truck lived a honorable and, perhaps even enviable, life, then it was cast aside and unceremoniously abandoned to sit exposed to the weather and wear for decades, and ultimately shoved into the far rear corner of a barn to become a nest for the rats and a toilet for their droppings.

I only hope to,”preserve” the essence of the truck, and eventually, as a hobby and pass time, return it to a level of animation which will let others glean a idea of how the truck appeared, and, if interested, either take a ride with me, or drive the truck themselves to experience history in the form of a zombie which has been reanimated and still possesses, and is willing to share,  the ability to connect them to their ancestors.

Jack

 

Edited May 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Well, yesterday morning I woke up with sugar plumbs and high hopes that I was going to be able to move through doing the rear wheel brakes on my 1929 Fargo Express panel truck project.

Thanks to the cyber network, I was informed that  the 2 7/16” inch hub puller I had ordered from Meyers Early Dodge was to be delivered, and all sorts of images danced around in my mind that I could safely remove the stubborn rear wheels from the truck, and at least remove the errant nut which lives there.

Finally, the mail did arrive, late in the day, of course, and exactly as my little cyber buddies at USPS tracking predicted, my spanking new hub puller was in my anxiously awaiting hands.

Ever been hunting, had finally located the buck of your wildest dreams, had the deer in your sights, and with the infrared scope you had bought at great expense, just couldn’t miss?

And the gun simply refused to fire!

If you have experienced this wet blanket, welcome to the “disappointment club, because that is exactly how I felt when I discovered the 2 7/16” inch hub puller was too small to fit the threads of the hub, and I found myself standing on square one again so far a finishing up the brakes on my truck.

The truck rates no more concern than not catching a fish, not mastering a skate board move or not painting a self portrait to equal a Norman Rockwell, were these my hobbies rather than playing with old cars.

What is disappointing is that I belong to a number of antique auto clubs, AACA and Dodge Brothers being a couple, and I can’t resolve a simple problem like finding a hub puller which fits a 94 year old truck hub properly.

I sincerely appreciate the quick response Cindy, of Meyers Early Dodge observed in the rapid mailing of the new hub pulller I ordered, and I, in no way, fault her or Meyers Early Dodge in the puller not fitting. 
There is something here that I am missing, but I am not alone in this problem because I can click on a thousand different icons and look at a hundred thousand photos of flawless restored Graham, Dodge, Fargo, and other panel trucks, made nearly 100 years ago, and I believed that these were products of people who actually restored them.

Sadly, I realize that I live in a nation which build 165000 vehicles daily, yet have no one who has ever removed a hub from a 94 year old truck.

Psssssssaaaaaawwwwwww!……..

I have a bridge to sell which is presently named the Golden Gate, but can be easily changed to any name chosen by the lucky person who buys it.

I do believe that a huge number of “hobbyists” who proclaim their unique ability to take rusty metal, rotted wood and age destroyed rubber to be nothing more that key punchers which draw on the forums to supplant the skills they wish they had in the actual restoration of a antique vehicle.

I have diverted my attention back to the electric fuel pump, the oil supply system and the wood body of the Fargo because, since the hobby of working on the old cars as a source of relaxation and  camaraderie when talking to other members on the forum have failed so miserably, I will just wait for the hub to fall off on its own accord.

Yep, I’m another old crank, and I should be banned from any self respecting antique auto club because I wonder how it is, that among the 1.5K viewers of this post not one has ever, successfully, removed the hub from a old truck, and still take great pride in having rebuilt a show quality antique car in which they take 1000 mile trips for fun.

Seriously, I also wonder what the value of paying dues to these clubs may have when I can order the parts being marketed on the sites from eBay and Amazon, and my dues will pay postage.

Jack

 

Edited May 26 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[keiser31]

39 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

Well, yesterday morning I woke up with sugar plumbs and high hopes that I was going to be able to move through doing the rear wheel brakes on my 1929 Fargo Express panel truck project.

Thanks to the cyber network, I was informed that  the 2 7/16” inch hub puller I had ordered from Meyers Early Dodge was to be delivered, and all sorts of images danced around in my mind that I could safely remove the stubborn rear wheels from the truck, and at least remove the errant nut which lives there.

Finally, the mail did arrive, late in the day, of course, and exactly as my little cyber buddies at USPS tracking predicted, my spanking new hub puller was in my anxiously awaiting hands.

Ever been hunting, had finally located the buck of your wildest dreams, had the deer in your sights, and with the infrared scope you had bought at great expense, just couldn’t miss?

And the gun simply refused to fire!

If you have experienced this wet blanket, welcome to the “disappointment club, because that is exactly how I felt when I discovered the 2 7/16” inch hub puller was too small to fit the threads of the hub, and I found myself standing on square one again so far a finishing up the brakes on my truck.

The truck rates no more concern than not catching a fish, not mastering a skate board move or not painting a self portrait to equal a Norman Rockwell, were these my hobbies rather than playing with old cars.

What is disappointing is that I belong to a number of antique auto clubs, AACA and Dodge Brothers being a couple, and I can’t resolve a simple problem like finding a hub puller which fits a 94 year old truck hub properly.

I sincerely appreciate the quick response Cindy, of Meyers Early Dodge observed in the rapid mailing of the new hub pulller I ordered, and I, in no way, fault her or Meyers Early Dodge in the puller not fitting. 
There is something here that I am missing, but I am not alone in this problem because I can click on a thousand different icons and look at a hundred thousand photos of flawless restored Graham, Dodge, Fargo, and other panel trucks, made nearly 100 years ago, and I believed that these were products of people who actually restored them.

Sadly, I realize that I live in a nation which build 165000 vehicles daily, yet have no one who has ever removed a hub from a 94 year old truck.

Psssssssaaaaaawwwwwww!……..

I have a bridge to sell which is presently named the Golden Gate, but can be easily changed to any name chosen by the lucky person who buys it.

I do believe that a huge number of “hobbyists” who proclaim their unique ability to take rusty metal, rotted wood and age destroyed rubber to be nothing more that key punchers which draw on the forums to supplant the skills they wish they had in the actual restoration of a antique vehicle.

I have diverted my attention back to the electric fuel pump, the oil supply system and the wood body of the Fargo because, since the hobby of working on the old cars as a source of relaxation and  camaraderie when talking to other members on the forum have failed so miserably, I will just wait for the hub to fall off on its own accord.

Yep, I’m another old crank, and I should be banned from any self respecting antique auto club because I wonder how it is, that among the 1.5K viewers of this post not one has ever, successfully, removed the hub from a old truck, and still take great pride in having rebuilt a show quality antique car in which they take 1000 mile trips for fun.

Seriously, I also wonder what the value of paying dues to these clubs may have when I can order the parts being marketed on the sites from eBay and Amazon, and my dues will pay postage.

Jack

 

If that truck is running, can you try to put the nut on a little loose on the axle and drive around the block to see if the hub will loosen up?

[Jack Bennett]

36 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

If that truck is running, can you try to put the nut on a little loose on the axle and drive around the block to see if the hub will loosen up?

The truck can’t be driven for more than a few yards, and at a creep because the only way of stopping it is to use the emergency brake.

Hitting something, such as the support posts for my back deck, or wrecking the garage doors again isn’t a option.

The nut, located inside the rear hub, which fits onto the bolt which holds the hub and spokes to the drum has came off and is now loose inside the drum.

When the wheel is turned more than 1/2 turn the nut makes a racket and locks the wheel when it lodges between the brake shoe and the drum.

Were this not the case I would try to loosen the hub by placing the truck on jack stands, loosening the axle castle nut and starting the engine. The wheels on these old vehicles are usually exempt from any laws regarding their balance, and putting the truck in gear and making the wheel driven, should vibrate it off.

Or, in any other instance I would just ignore the rear wheels altogether, block off the rear wheel brake hydraulics, and just use the front wheel brakes to stop it after short moves.

But, I neither want to bugger the hub up so much that, even when it does fall off, I can’t use it. And if I am having such a massive problem finding a puller to pull the hub in a prescribed manner, imagine the immense, and probably impossible task of finding a replacement drum, back plate and set of shoes when I destroy them when the nut jams between the shoe and the drum, and just rips the whole (94 year old) assembly apart.

I also drive a 1927 Willys Knight as a go-to weekend ride. This car was in miserable shape when I bought it and necessitated replacement of many mechanical parts as well as the top, upholstery and all wood work which supported it.

During the year log process it entailed to get the car running I was continuously mentored, morally supported and provided information and some hard to find parts by WOKR members, most of which are located in Australia, New Zealand, Nova Scotia and Great Britain, and the camaraderie and exchange of information was invaluable as well as much appreciated.

Yet, in regards to the Fargo, I was unable to properly identify the engine, acquire photos of a clutch and transmission, buy, or even ascertain what the pedals should look like, find a suitable replacement steering wheel or parts for the gear box or find a puller which works on the nearly century old hubs, on either AACA or the Dodge Brothers forums. 
This speaks loads about what these forums are becoming/have became.
So much for this because it concerns a old truck which died fifty years ago, and will not be missed when it is fed into the crusher to become a shiny new fry cooker or a vacuum cleaner body. 
Jack

Edited May 26 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

How did you arrive at the diameter? Is it measured or from some other source like a manual and is it across the threads? Threads can be tricky things to work with. A deviation of only a few thousandths can make the difference between a loose fit or not fitting at all and calculating the thread from a damaged piece is all the more difficult. When you say it was too small...does that mean it wouldn't thread on or it wouldn't even start? I presume the threads are damaged so even if the hub puller is the correct size it still won't thread on easily. There is always an answer to these problems although it is sometimes difficult to find. I'm wondering if a clamp with a 2-1/2-16 thread and provision for closing it tight on the hub after it is threaded on might not be the answer.

[Jack Bennett]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:07 AM, JV Puleo said:

How did you arrive at the diameter? Is it measured or from some other source like a manual and is it across the threads? Threads can be tricky things to work with. A deviation of only a few thousandths can make the difference between a loose fit or not fitting at all and calculating the thread from a damaged piece is all the more difficult. When you say it was too small...does that mean it wouldn't thread on or it wouldn't even start? I presume the threads are damaged so even if the hub puller is the correct size it still won't thread on easily. There is always an answer to these problems although it is sometimes difficult to find. I'm wondering if a clamp with a 2-1/2-16 thread and provision for closing it tight on the hub after it is threaded on might not be the answer.

Hi JV……..I used a caliper, a thread gauge, a divider and a ruler to measure and remeasure the size of the hub.

Before I realized that I was out of my league on this particular problem I had buggered the threads on the drivers side hub, but, hopefully, they can still be recovered enough to use a hub puller with a clamp.

I have done nothing with the passenger side hub other than use its measurements to verify that my measurements of the drivers side hub is correct.

I now believe that the hubs are 2 1/2-16, and will be looking for a hub puller, with a clamp, of that dimensions.

The difference between my measurements of 2 7/16-16 and 2 1/2-16 seems to be the main problem with removing the hub at the minute. I ordered, received, and have tried, without success, a new 2 7/16-16 puller I ordered from Meyers Early Dodge. Cindy, of Myers Early Dodge informs me that the 2 7/16-16 puller is the largest size they sell, and she has no recommendations as to where I go now.

Neither of the spanners I have used, without problem, on my Willys Knight and Dodge Bros. Roadster works with the hub on the Fargo as one is just a bit too large, and only strips the threads, and the other won’t screw on the hub at all.

The past couple of months have been difficult to work through with the loss of my younger brother, my sister-in-law and two of my closest friends and I am not sure how this has affected my attention span regarding how I am dealing with the hub problem on the Fargo.

I have been negotiating with a seller on eBay for a 2 1/2” puller but his ad says the threads need some work prior to use, and I am becoming paranoid in regards to what you have said about everything being a 1-16 thread count except the puller on a Model T, and the puller on eBay is advertised as being for a Model T, A or another car.

The truck has loads of other stuff to be done other than the rear axles so I think I will put the hubs on hold for a later date project.

I do, sincerely, appreciate. the input and support from everyone one the forum, and I do apologize if I let my sharp edges stick out in some of my replies. 
Jack

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

Yesterday I got the new mechanical fuel pump for the 1951 Dodge pickup engine I installed in the Fargo, and it works great.

The truck is full of surprises regarding the level of technology used in its manufacture when compared to my 1927 Willys Knight and my 1923 Dodge. Roadster.

While the Willys Knight has the more modern internal brake shoes installed on the front wheels, it still has external bands on the rear, and it, as well well as my Dodge Roadster, which has only rear, external bands, are both mechanical.

And, while the Fargo is equipped with some very hefty hydraulic brakes on all four wheels, the most impressive item it sports is the electric fuel pump, and the absence of either a mount for a mechanical fuel pump or a Skinner vacuum tank sort of fuel supply system is, IMO, a remarkable thing.

The electric fuel pump, I must suppose was a OEM item on the truck has been repaired to the point it works. But, I like the idea of the ease in replacing, and the dependability of its design of the mechanical pump, and I think I’ll stick with it as the primary fuel source for the Fargo engine.

Edited May 29 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

One of the ongoing problems with idiotic ebay descriptions is that practically everything is described as being for a Model T or A...including many things  that absolutely no one who knew anything about those cars would say. I wouldn't put any faith in a description of that sort. a bigger problem would be whether it is 2-1/2". The actual inside dimension of the puller for that thread would be about 2.4375. If it includes a clamp it may be slightly larger.

 

That is a rough measurement. The outside dimension of a thread is the major diameter. It is always slightly less than the nominal size since if it were the same the pieces wouldn't thread together easily. The measurement for the puller is the minor diameter...the size of a hole you'd drill if you wanted to thread it. A quick way to come up with a rough measurement is to divide 1 by the number of threads (1 divided by  16 = .0625) That is subtracted from the major diameter...(2.5 - 0.625). Again, this will just get you in the ball park. A difference of 20 or even 30 thousandths is quite possible especially with something like a puller that should screw on easily and be clamped in place.

Edited May 29 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[nsbrassnut]

Another item to consider that I have run across, mostly with the Ford Ts. Sometimes there is a bit of variation in the diameter of the threads on different hubs. The standard hub puller will thread right on some, others it just won't quite fit. But sometimes, if the hub puller is the type with the split in the side and the clamp bolt, you can slightly spread the hub puller open with a wedge or cold chisel tapped into the split on the puller. The puller may also have "shrunk" slightly when clamped a the past In a few cases a combination of using the thread chasing tool to clean up the threads on the hub, and actually cut them a few thous smaller, combine with a cold chisel wedge lightly tapped into the slot in the puller is just enough to get the puller to thread on.

 

It may not work in the case of the Fargo. But if the puller looks to be almost large enough, then it just might help make the difference.

[Jack Bennett]

Well, the weather has turned really crappy outside, and the saying “if you can’t do it in the rain, you can’t do it in Washington” is again proving to be true.

I have ordered a set of three different hub pullers from eBay, and while I await their arrival, have decided to start on the upholstery and floorboards of the Fargo.

The topic of this post is related to, but not directly concerning one or both of these undertakings.

Instead, I’d like to comment on a under appreciated facet of working on these old cars, as compared to working on a later model car,  

Have you noticed that work on a newer car is little more than performing rote as we replace a part which has failed with another identical part, and calling it good?
All the while little attention is paid to why the part keeps failing, and what we need to do to halt the process.

Then, along comes us old geezers who maintains ninety and one hundred year old cars as a hobby and take these cars, which have long been declared legally dead, for long drives every weekend.

The difference is between the way the old car fanatic and the modern car driver sees the problem.

As I disassemble my old cars I find hundreds of design and manufacturing mistakes, some made nearly a century ago, and every one provides clear evidence of its presence, as well as a suggestion for its remedy.

Our old machines are reservoirs of knowledge, some good, some interesting, some ridiculous, some funny, but all valuable.

Old guy, and his 1909 Sputterbug Touring both have problems, and his aren’t too different from the car’s.

Most of his are due to his age, and the way he progressed from a bouncing baby boy to a very senior man……..exactly as the history of his Sputterbug should read. 
That means the principal problems he must detect, and mend, to keep his Sputterbug in prime condition may have existed for many years, have now progressed to the stage it is easy to see them, and even easier to see what may have caused them.

Thence, the work done by the old guy to his cherished Sputterbug must include making the decision to go with replacing the failed part with a direct replacement (reproduced) part, which can now be seen as failure prone from time of manufacture, or using the knowledge acquired during his search for the problem, and  having the problem, as well as its cause, repaired.

It is not easy to fit this into a post which may be understood by a majority of readers, so I’ll encapsulate it by saying………Us old car buffs work on problems which have resulted in a failure after it has ran its course.

A modern car buff works on problems which may be a product of a manufacturing defect, and learn very little when pulling and replacement of the part.

I suppose I will summarize this by saying that is probably why us old guys are so darned smart but accomplish so little.

Jack

 

Edited June 3 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Wow, Jack!   Now that was a mouthful.   I for one agree.  Some will not.

 

 Keep on keeping on.

 

  From one old guy to another.

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

Fortune smiled, and then rained on my Fargo party.

Removing the rear hubs has, and I suppose will be, a major obstacle to finishing up the project.

The replacement engine, transmission, drive shaft, steering, and much of the frame/body work is finished, and the interior of the truck is a ongoing project.

And, thanks to input from the forum members, I have determined that the rear hubs measure 2 1/2” by 16TPI thread count, and I have located, and bought a set of hub removal tools on eBay which are the proper size and thread count. The Fargo is a hobby project, and while the money I spend on it is important, the real uplifting part of working on it is the good feelings I get when I encounter another person who places product over profit.

In this case I was able to buy a set of four hub pullers, each a different size and thread for $45.00 plus the unavoidable tax and shipping. 
The good part is that the hub puller I need to do the hubs on the Fargo is among the four, and it appears that I may be able to remove the right hub with its use. But, the threads on the left hub are too buggered from my previous attempts to remove it, and the hub puller will not screw on it without damage to the threads on the puller……and that is a major problem.

So, I have ordered a thread chaser from eBay and am going to try to recover enough of the threads on the hub to allow use of the puller.

Actually, I don’t have a lot of confidence this will work and any suggestions which can be used to remove the hub when the thread chaser fails to do the trick will be appreciated.

When/if I get the hubs off I will post some photos of the set of hub pullers and, anyone who needs them can borrow them for the cost of postage.

Jack