Should 25 year old cars really be called "Antiques"?

[JV Puleo]

I feel this topic is mixing two distinct topics...what clubs call an "antique" and what the law defines as one. I could not care less what clubs accept but I have a real problem with the law when the official definition leaves a barn door open for abuse. I have pretty much the same issue with hot rods registered as a "1923 Model T" or such when there isn't a single part on them that dates from 1923. In fact, I don't really see how they get registered as an antique. All we need is one major accident involving an "antique" hot rod, restomod or street rod and we could all suffer. It would be folly to presume the powers that be have an inkling of the difference between a car with an early 1920s engine and one with some monster V8...

 

Unfortunately, writing effective and fair rules would be beyond the cognitive capabilities of the average politician who want the easiest solution that will allow them to appear to be "doing something".

[1912Staver]

Only the latest Model T's have a frame number, 1926 and 27 as far as I know. Otherwise they are registered by engine number only. Once a 23 T  { or any other 1925 or older Model T for that matter } has lost its original , factory installed engine block it looses any way of documenting its origin.  Thousands of Model T's out there , but many have had a engine replacement or substitution over the last 100 years.

 Much the same as  vintage Harley Davidsons. Engine number only, they did not get frame numbers until somewhere in the post war era. Around 1962 as far as I know, but it did not match the engine  number and was not used for Title or registration purposes. Not until 1970 did Harleys have a matching engine and frame number.

Edited February 11 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[hook]

21 hours ago, Tph479 said:

My definition of an antique car is that if I have to explain to someone how to

1) Start it

2) Shift it

3) Stop it

4) Explain what the levers on the steering wheel are for

5) explain what the gauges on the dash are for

6) explain what the knobs or pull things on the dash do, then you have an antique car.

 

Everything else is just an old car. 

Gee, this has really blew the 25 year rule out of the water. Let see. 2024 anything. Do I start it with a key or a button or just tell it to start. How do I shift it? It has no stick, what do I do with this knob? Stop it? Well, that's been the same since the early 20's, you press a peddle on the floor. What are these levers and buttons on the wheel? Oh, radio, cruise control, steering wheel heater, horn...... What do the gauges mean? What's the tachometer for? What's this thing about battery charge and what's left of miles to go mean? What's this lever do? oh It moves the steering wheel and makes wipers go. Oh damn, the headlights just came on??????????????

So the way I see it by your criteria a car is an antique when it comes of the line.

[John348]

23 hours ago, Tph479 said:

My definition of an antique car is that if I have to explain to someone how to

1) Start it

2) Shift it

3) Stop it

4) Explain what the levers on the steering wheel are for

5) explain what the gauges on the dash are for

6) explain what the knobs or pull things on the dash do, then you have an antique car.

 

Everything else is just an old car. 

But the same thing can be said about every 2024 vehicle in the showroom? 

[60FlatTop]

Maybe boldly posted on the first page of a nationally promoted website.

 

 

The like-minded part is a good one.

[John Kelso]

Henry Austin Clark wrote an article many years ago about driving an L29 Cord to Hershey. He was not allowed to park it among the show cars,

it wasn't 25 years old, although not a post war fan this article made me more accepting. I do not consider my 1973 XKE Roadster an antique but

accept in some peoples eyes it is. My 1907 Stanley, well,that's a different story.

[demco32]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:30 PM, John348 said:

But the same thing can be said about every 2024 vehicle in the showroom? 

is this a car or a computer?

[60FlatTop]

"I suffer a lot the few true antique cars I lack, and enjoy too little the post war cars parked nearest the garage door."

 

[8E45E]

35 minutes ago, John Kelso said:

Henry Austin Clark wrote an article many years ago about driving an L29 Cord to Hershey. He was not allowed to park it among the show cars,

it wasn't 25 years old, although not a post war fan this article made me more accepting. I do not consider my 1973 XKE Roadster an antique but

accept in some peoples eyes it is. My 1907 Stanley, well,that's a different story.

Alberta started issuing Antique car plates in 1963.  The vehicle have to be 1938 or older when they were first issued.  I don't know what the fee was in the beginning, but in the 1970's and early 1980's, it was $10 for life.  The registration form was cloth, not paper.

 

Craig

[John348]

8 hours ago, demco32 said:

is this a car or a computer?

The computers started popping up in 1975 and have been pretty much in every vehicle for the past 44 years, so it's not like it's anything new.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, John348 said:

The computers started popping up in 1975 and have been pretty much in every vehicle for the past 44 years, so it's not like it's anything new.

So true.

 

I spent 40 years in embedded software and firmware development so I have some knowledge of computers.

 

The '82 Plymouth I owned definitely had a computer but the setup was pretty simple. If I recall correctly they called it something like an engine control unit but it was definitely a computer.

 

1991 I purchased a new Jeep Cherokee and, of course, got a copy of the factory service manuals for it. When I was reading through the manuals my impression was that the Cherokee was more of a rolling computer network more than a traditional car. A bunch of processing units connected with CAN busses, etc.

 

I think when they started putting fancy displays and navigation into the passenger compartment is when people thought it started, but computers have been in cars for many decades now.

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, John348 said:

The computers started popping up in 1975 and have been pretty much in every vehicle for the past 44 years, so it's not like it's anything new.

It goes back to prior to that.  It started in 1958 with the Bendix Electrojector fuel injection used on DeSoto, and then perfected by Bosch and used on Volkswagens with the K-Jetronic starting around 1967.  And there have been other on-board computer systems, including Buick's 'Max-Trac' traction control in 1971.

 

Craig