1934 Chrysler: Is my generator 2 or 3 brush?

[57Classic]

Hi everyone. Before I go any further, I should note that I do know that the generator that came with this car was originally a 2 brush. BUT, I recently replaced the 12 volt generator the car came with with some Chrysler generator off eBay. I wonder if anybody knows whether this generator is 2 or 3 brush. Here are the numbers: Auto Lite GEP 4801 11B. 
 

Thanks in advance! 

[57Classic]

Oops! Photo is upside down. Just use your imagination. 

[maok]

It's most likely a 2-brush generator. There should be two posts (or wires) labelled F(small gauge) and A (heavy gauge) on it if it's a 2-brush unit, these attached to a voltage regulator.

 

[ply33]

Chrysler probably went to it earlier but Plymouth stuck with a third brush generator until the mid-1930 but starting in 1934 they added an external voltage regulator so they looked a lot like a two brush generator with both an armature and field connection on the generator. I don't have an AutoLite cross reference so I can’t tell what the OP's generator is but removing the brush cover will tell the story.

 

Edit: Are you sure that generator is orginal? Plymouth, and I thought all Chrysler Corp lines used Delco-Remy through 1934 and switched to AutoLite in 1935.

Edited November 25, 2023 by ply33 (see edit history)

[Fordy]

Quite easy to tell if you slip off the band covering the brushes and take a look.

Not trying to be a smartarse but just pointing at the elephant in the room.

Steve

[hchris]

39 minutes ago, Fordy said:

Quite easy to tell if you slip off the band covering the brushes and take a look.

Not trying to be a smartarse but just pointing at the elephant in the room.

Steve

What he said:)

[hook]

14 hours ago, 57Classic said:

Hi everyone. Before I go any further, I should note that I do know that the generator that came with this car was originally a 2 brush. BUT, I recently replaced the 12 volt generator the car came with with some Chrysler generator off eBay. I wonder if anybody knows whether this generator is 2 or 3 brush. Here are the numbers: Auto Lite GEP 4801 11B. 
 

Thanks in advance! 

What do you mean when you said, you replaced the original "12 volt" generator the car came with? 1934 with 12 volt?

[TerryB]

4 hours ago, hook said:

What do you mean when you said, you replaced the original "12 volt" generator the car came with? 1934 with 12 volt?

He did not say it was the original that car had in 1934.  He said it had a 12v generator when he got the car.

[hook]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

He did not say it was the original that car had in 1934.  He said it had a 12v generator when he got the car.

Then why is there a discussion on 2 or 3 brush generator if the car is set up for 12 volts? 

[TerryB]

1 minute ago, hook said:

Then why is there a discussion on 2 or 3 brush generator if the car is set up for 12 volts? 

Because he is not sure what he has and is asking for help in identifying it correctly.  Probably new to these things.  Not everyone has as much experience as others. 

[hook]

2 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Because he is not sure what he has and is asking for help in identifying it correctly.  Probably new to these things.  Not everyone has as much experience as others. 

Exactly! However, if he bought a generator off Ebay for his 1934 that was listed for a 1934 then his concern is much more than 2 or 3 brushes. 

[TerryB]

I’ve been working with a fellow forum member for over a year who has zero knowledge of prewar cars but bought one anyway.  He is 400 miles away so he PMs me with questions and I do my best to help him out.  Just how it goes sometimes. Right now I’m looking up this generator in a book I have but took a long time to dig it out.  I can’t physically do much(amputee and paraplegic) but I try.

[hook]

4 minutes ago, TerryB said:

I’ve been working with a fellow forum member for over a year who has zero knowledge of prewar cars but bought one anyway.  He is 400 miles away so he PMs me with questions and I do my best to help him out.  Just how it goes sometimes. Right now I’m looking up this generator in a book I have but took a long time to dig it out.  I can’t physically do much(amputee and paraplegic) but I try.

No offence meant Terry, but your not the only amputee out there. Note my handle "Hook"

[TerryB]

Ok, Allen test equipment generator specification handbook for GEP-4801

Volts=6v

Rotation-clockwise

Positive ground.

Amps output=20

Control-Third brush with circuit breaker or third brush with two charge regulator control. (Not sure what that means)

 

So it’s a 6v output. Third brush.

[TerryB]

15 minutes ago, hook said:

No offence meant Terry, but your not the only amputee out there. Note my handle "Hook"

yes I know I’m not alone.
Try sitting in a wheelchair with only one leg that doesn’t work anyway and no feeling or control of your lower extremities.  Sorry but I’ll take the hook over this situation.  Lighten up and be helpful when you can.

 

Edit- My apologies for being blunt.  

Edited November 25, 2023 by TerryB (see edit history)

[hook]

12 minutes ago, TerryB said:

yes I know I’m not alone.
Try sitting in a wheelchair with only one leg that doesn’t work anyway and no feeling or control of your lower extremities.  Sorry but I’ll take the hook over this situation.  Lighten up and be helpful when you can.

Then to be helpful, you should explain you can't use a 3 brush 6 volt generator on a car that may have been converted to 12 volts.

[TerryB]

Just now, hook said:

Then to be helpful, you should explain you can't use a 3 brush 6 volt generator on a car that may have been converted to 12 volts.

Naw, I’ll let you handle that one!  As I said, sorry for the comments on comparing disabilities, never ever should be a contest on I’m worse off than you are..  
 

Now this poor guy is stuck (maybe) with a generator he can’t use or he’s going to go back to 6v.

[Bloo]

35 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Control-Third brush with circuit breaker or third brush with two charge regulator control. (Not sure what that means)

It means it has a second wire to control the field so that a voltage regulator can be used.

 

"Two Charge" was a mid 30s Autolite voltage regulator that apparently(?) had a bunch of hysteresis switching between high and low charge, rather than switching at high speed like the Delco did, and like more modern voltage regulators do. Two charge was not around long, maybe a year or two, after which Autolite regulators worked more like you would expect. "Circuit Breaker" in this context means a traditional cutout with no voltage regulation, so this generator could be used either way. In both cases, current regulation was handled by the third brush, so there was never a third relay in the control box. There was either just one relay (a simple cutout) or two, a cutout relay and a regulator relay (two charge).

 

 

[57Classic]

7 hours ago, TerryB said:

Ok, Allen test equipment generator specification handbook for GEP-4801

Volts=6v

Rotation-clockwise

Positive ground.

Amps output=20

Control-Third brush with circuit breaker or third brush with two charge regulator control. (Not sure what that means)

 

So it’s a 6v output. Third brush.

Thanks a million! That’s the answer I was looking for. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by 57Classic (see edit history)

[57Classic]

I wasn’t expecting all this! Anyway, I do mean that it had a 12 volt generator installed when I got the car. I replaced it with a 6 volt generator off eBay. I believe it is for a later Chrysler, maybe a 1937 or ‘38 as per the eBay description. To be honest, I do know I can just look through the back of the generator. But it’s kind of tricky to get off. Thanks for the help! 
 

P.S. I do want to convert it back to 6 volt positive ground. Someone tried a 12 volt conversion, and it was not a pretty sight. I’m busying myself with replacing all of the wiring at this point. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by 57Classic (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Are you really sure this car ever had 2-brush? I kind of doubt it. 1934 seems too early, also two brush requires a 3-unit regulator, and at the time I believe Chrysler was still mounting the regulator or cutout on the generator. I guess it isn't technically impossible they could have mounted a 3-unit regulator that way but I don't think I have ever seen it.

 

Several variations on these mid 30s Chrysler generators came up in Professor's 36 Chrysler Airstream thread, as he was figuring out what the car would have originally had. The details escape me right now, but "two charge" was from around 1935-1936, and there were pics of generators that had 2 posts, and also some that had 2 wires coming out of the generator case under the regulator where you couldn't see them. The regulator was mounted on top of the generator in all cases, and so was the cutout if that was used instead. If that generator was for "two charge" I think you could go a year newer with the regulator (1937?) and use one that regulates in a more expected way.

 

[maok]

This is an original Delco Remy 935G '34 Airflow generator from my CV,

 

 

@Bloo the '36 Airstream generator should be an Autolite.

Edited November 26, 2023 by maok (see edit history)

[57Classic]

On 11/25/2023 at 10:32 PM, Bloo said:

Are you really sure this car ever had 2-brush? I kind of doubt it. 1934 seems too early, also two brush requires a 3-unit regulator, and at the time I believe Chrysler was still mounting the regulator or cutout on the generator. I guess it isn't technically impossible they could have mounted a 3-unit regulator that way but I don't think I have ever seen it.

 

Oh! My mistake. You are correct. The car never had a separate voltage regulator as it has now, there isn’t one in the wiring diagram. 1934 is too early. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by 57Classic (see edit history)

[ply33]

2 hours ago, 57Classic said:

Oh! My mistake. You are correct. The car never had a separate voltage regulator as it has now, there isn’t one in the wiring diagram. 1934 is too early. 

On the 34 Plymouth Deluxe (engineering code PE) there is a voltage regulator built into the same box as the cut out. I think that box is mounted on the generator. Current regulation was still by 3rd brush.

 

It would surprise me if the high end Chrysler would be missing a feature found on the low end Plymouth.