Older vs newer headlights

[Grimy]

26 minutes ago, ABear said:

Night driving tips..

Another one from my military service:  To preserve one's night vision, close ONE eye as soon as you detect a source of bright light (e.g., a flare in a military context) until the bright light is gone, then open that eye which will have retained your night vision.  In my dotage, that technique doesn't work nearly as well as it used to....

 

Further agree with watching the white line on the right side of the road--if there is one, because some rural areas lack them.

[ABear]

2 hours ago, Grimy said:

Further agree with watching the white line on the right side of the road--if there is one, because some rural areas lack them.

Yeah, have a lot of "country roads" that are too small and narrow for State DOT to mark center line and edge of road lines.. They used to be dirt and gravel roads, since oiling dirt is no longer allowed they got paved.

 

But even still, one can proactive and look down and away from on coming headlights and still be able to see what is road and what is not.

 

Main thing is to not stare at the offending lights, that just makes the problem worse.

 

Don't understand today's "legislate and rules" mentality, each time something is legislated and new rules and enforcement gets in place, you chip away at everyone's freedoms until you have nothing.

[Anthonyp]

4 hours ago, Grimy said:

Another one from my military service:  To preserve one's night vision, close ONE eye as soon as you detect a source of bright light (e.g., a flare in a military context) until the bright light is gone, then open that eye which will have retained your night vision.  In my dotage, that technique doesn't work nearly as well as it used to....

 

Further agree with watching the white line on the right side of the road--if there is one, because some rural areas lack them.

Good advise, but does not work too well when driving and trying to watch for pedestrians, cyclists, and wildlife. 

[Anthonyp]

2 hours ago, ABear said:

Yeah, have a lot of "country roads" that are too small and narrow for State DOT to mark center line and edge of road lines.. They used to be dirt and gravel roads, since oiling dirt is no longer allowed they got paved.

 

But even still, one can proactive and look down and away from on coming headlights and still be able to see what is road and what is not.

 

Main thing is to not stare at the offending lights, that just makes the problem worse.

 

Don't understand today's "legislate and rules" mentality, each time something is legislated and new rules and enforcement gets in place, you chip away at everyone's freedoms until you have nothing.

That is true. Many times it is just trying to get the current regulations enforced, or amended so to be sensible and practical. 

[Anthonyp]

5 hours ago, ABear said:

There is something that everyone can use, it is called "driving defensively"

 

Night driving tips..

 

https://themotorguy.com/night-driving-tips-how-to-avoid-glare-from-oncoming-headlights/

 

"Highway Scenarios

 

When driving on a highway, oncoming headlights can be especially bright and distracting. To avoid glare, you should:

    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Avoid looking directly at the oncoming headlights.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

 

Rural Roads

 

Rural roads can be narrow and winding, which can make it difficult to see oncoming traffic. Here are some tips for handling oncoming traffic on rural roads:

    Slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary.
    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

 

Urban Streets

 

On urban streets, oncoming headlights can be especially distracting due to the presence of streetlights and other sources of light. Here are some tips for handling oncoming traffic on urban streets:

    Slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary.
    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

By following these tips, you can avoid glare from oncoming headlights and stay safe while driving at night."

 

Notice one of the main repeated part I have highlighted in bold and underlined is Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.

 

There are a few other tips that can be helpful.

 

A clean windshield is helpful to reduce glare.

 

Scratch free windshield reduces glare.

 

You can also get glasses with glare reduction coatings that do help.

 

Dash board dimming, yeah, that is a huge offender now days, that huge touch screen system sitting on the dash glaring at you does you no favors. set your dash lights as dim as possible so your no longer competing with that.

 

Use your high beams when possible.

 

Adjust your rear view mirrors to reduce glare from cars behind you.. Yep, I flip my windshield mirror to night position, and I move my passenger mirror up until I no longer get headlight glare from cars behind me..

 

Drop your windshield visor down, that reduces glass glare from cars behind you.

 

Get regular eye exams, as you age, your eyes change, how and what you see changes which may require changes in prescription eye wear or even medical attention.

 

How about REDUCING YOUR SPEED?

 

Minimize distractions (IE talking to people, paying attention to your phone, loud music, ect)

 

Be careful of your medications, some can affect your eyes and night time vision..

 

LIMIT NIGHT DRIVING, yeah, if you do not NEED to be out driving at night and you have issues with headlights, limit your time driving at night, it may not be the fault of the other motorists headlights when it may be your eyes causing night vision issues.

 

Fatigue, driving tired makes you more sensitive to bright lights..

 

Don't be impatient..

 

These are what YOU can "control", do that enough times and it all becomes second nature.

 

No need for DOT numbers, no need for legislation, no need for police randomly pulling people over and harassing them for a miss aligned headlight.

Many times drivers are seen with their cell phone mounted on top of the dash with the light from the screen glaring directly at the driver, with the same type of LED lighting. 
 

Most people slow down when blinded by bright approaching headlights or when the rising or setting sun floods through their windshield while driving. 
 

Slowing down by itself will not abate or prevent being blinded by overly bright or misdirected headlamp light.  

[Anthonyp]

6 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

The stereotype of a pirate boat captain is a shaggy haired, bearded guy with one eye patch.

Well, I suppose if I spent most of my life on a ship at sea, with a crew of smelly and rowdy pirates, I may not visit my barber or manicurist as often as society dictates.

However, to explain the eye patch I have to go a bit further.

One story goes that when asked if he’d lost his eye in a sword fight, the old captain replied that he’d lost his eye because of a sword fight, but not during a sword fight.

Asked to explain, the old pirate captain went on to say he’d lost his hand in the fight, and that it was replaced by a hook.

Still curious, the other fellow asked what losing his hand, and having it replaced with a hook had to do with losing his eye in a sword fight.

The old captain replied “Nothing, at least not until I forgot I had the hook and scratched my nose”.

But this thread is about night driving so I’d better get back on topic…..

When we actually talked, I mean face to face, it was understood that flashing your lights at a oncoming car was a way of reminding them that you were being blinded, and, just maybe, would hit them in a head on collusion.

That was “culture”, and that is the way we were taught.

Now we are in a different culture which allows people to learn, and practice, things that will never be discussed other than on a internet anti-social site.

I was told by a younger member of my lodge that he will not flash his lights at a oncoming car for the same reason he won’t wave at someone in another car or on a motorcycle.

It seems as there are non-verbal ways of communicating we don’t completely understand, nor do those who practice and react to others using this means of communications.

Seldom a day goes by that we don’t see a newspaper report of a drive by shooting or someone being dragged from a car and physically harmed.

The explanation given for the senseless act was misinterpretation of the hand gesture being a rival gang signal or something which implied disrespect.

I may be off base here, but I have been told that having headlights flashed at them can be taken by some as a challenge to their status as a superior driver, or a threat that the persons in the car doing the flashing is transmitting a warning that a returned flash will invite retaliation.

It’s a culture thing, we don’t need to understand the “why” it has evolved, but we have to appreciate the consequences of foolishly doing it.

That leads me back to the pirate captain, and interlocks night driving with a eye patch.

Logically, a pirate captain spends as much time below deck as they do on deck. And the eyes respond to sudden changes in the intensity of the light, and a pirate captain, coming from a darkened hold into the bright sunlight may be temporarily blinded…….the same as the night driver being confronted by oncoming headlights.

The life expectancy of a pirate captain must be hard to sustain, especially a boat captain, on a ship manned by pirates, who is suddenly blinded as he opens the door and recenters the sunshine from a darkened hold.

To minimize the chance of this temporary blindness becoming the epithet on his grave stone, the captain wears a patch which keeps one eye in the dark while allowing him to see with the other.

When the reason for the captains stay in the dark is finished, and the time to return to the lighted deck arrives, so does the time to switch the patch from the blacked out eye to the uncovered eye.

Thence, as he emerges from the dark, and recenters the light, he now uses the previously covered eye to watch for vandals who would want to harm him.

If you leave this spiel with the opinion I’d suggest that you wear a eyepatch while night driving, and stay prepared to swap it between eyes when confronted with bright headlights, ……………..

Well, maybe so……….

Jack

 

Sort of like why some States do not require use of headlights until a half hour after sunset, and a half hour before sunrise. Still enough light to see, and give the driver’s vision time to adjust to the changing condition without oncoming headlights creating a blinding effect. 
 

If weather or environmental conditions warranted it, instructors advised motorists  to use the marker lights to make the vehicle easier for other motorists to recognize.
 

If the sight distance was less than 1,000 feet, then the headlights were required to be lit. In some States the minimum sight distance is 500 feet before the headlights are required to be lit. 
 

The pirate joke and analogy were very good. 

[WPVT]

When I am driving the lights behind me are often more troublesome than the ones facing me. When lights behind me are so bright as to cause distinct shadows to be cast within my truck cab, that seems unreasonable. I can flip the center mirror, but the side mirrors still project a blinding light. That would be the case regardless of what headlights I had. 

 

 

[JFranklin]

Maybe aim the mirror to bounce the offending light out the back window.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, JFranklin said:

Maybe aim the mirror to bounce the offending light out the back window.

I have a cousin who, at least years ago, was very good at getting the driver behind to dim their lights using that technique. I was never able to get the aim right to use that technique.

[Peter Gariepy]

i can speak from experience... car headlights were a safety issue for me.  (I was unsafe driving)

Cataract surgery was a godsend.  Not just for driving but for all vision.  The world is brighter, more clear, more colorful... and all those starry headlights are gone.  

Thank god.

[ABear]

3 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

Slowing down by itself will not abate or prevent being blinded by overly bright or misdirected headlamp light.

You just keep rambling on..

 

Slowing down prevents YOU from running off the road or into other objects, in other words helps YOU maintain control of YOUR vehicle. Stop blaming others for your mistakes.

 

2 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

If weather or environmental conditions warranted it, instructors advised motorists  to use the marker lights to make the vehicle easier for other motorists to recognize.

Instructors made mistakes with that advice, using the "marker" lights only is for PARKING, not moving, when in motion, and lighting is required to be on, you should always turn on ALL lights (IE headlights and markers).

 

Ya really have a "control issue" with others actions.

 

I had a wise fellow once tell me that he realized what stressed him out the most in life.. It was trying to "control" things that were not in HIS "control".. Once he stopped being concerned about those things outside his control, his life became much better.

 

Relax a bit and chill out, life will be better.

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

It may be a bit difficult to see them, but my 1951 Plymouth Cambridge has “eyelids” with red marble markers which glow when the headlights are on.

Since I have not driven the Plymouth on main roads after dark I don’t know if the eyelids help with upward reflected glare from the headlights.

Regardless, they look pretty cool……huh?

Jack

[Grimy]

5 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

Good advise, but does not work too well when driving and trying to watch for pedestrians, cyclists, and wildlife. 

You have tunnel vision?  If you haven't tried it, don't knock it....

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Cataract surgery was a godsend.  Not just for driving but for all vision.  The world is brighter, more clear, more colorful... and all those starry headlights are gone.

Amen, brother.

 

Can we finally put this dead horse to bed?  (I like to mix metaphors)

[Frank DuVal]

10 hours ago, ABear said:

Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.

I wish we had white lines on the secondary roads around here.❗🏎️🛠️🚗

[Anthonyp]

11 hours ago, ABear said:

Most States also "reciprocate" on secondary rules with other States rules, so there is that also..

 

You act as if the Police have nothing better than to stare down every motorist and pull them over for every single headlight infraction. Reality is, they cannot be everywhere all the time, there simply is too many motorists for the given amount of Police including off duty ones also.. So, it comes down to what is more important, catching drunk drivers, catching speeders, catching operators with a no lights on or some lights out.

 

Driving with no lighting is actually far greater risk to other motorists, if they have headlights, tailights out YOU cannot see them. Imagine driving 55 MPH on a dark night and a motorist is coming towards you with no headlight and no marker lights.. I HAVE experienced that.. Yeah, that DOES happen and is far, far more dangerous than having a headlight out of alignment.

OK, so what?

 

Have you personally and intentionally stared into your headlight lens in the middle of night with the headlights on and have looked for a DOT marking?

 

I wouldn't, not worth seeing a thousand ghost lights for several hrs.. That would be the same as staring into the sun without proper protection for your eyes..

 

Not to mention, just because then lens has a DOT stamp, doesn't mean the BULB inside the lens has DOT approval..

 

You are forgetting, non DOT bulbs can be installed into a DOT housing

So, I guess in your wise wisdom you would have the officer dig into the hot engine compartment, find the offending bulb, yank it out will turned on and then attempt to handle and read a the tiny writing on the back of a thousand degree hot bulb.. Yeah, I don't see that happening.. Try that on my 2019 and 2020 trucks, you have to remove the front grill to access the bulbs, not an easy task in properly lit shop, would be impossible to do on a roadside stop..

 

Loud Motorcycles are a different discussion but I will address that also.

 

Motor cyclists have often lobbied against noise laws and for the most part the have won. Basically the premise is because they are small and hard to see, they want the bike to be loud enough for the other motorists to notice them.. In some respects they are correct, you will hear them before you ever see them.. Doesn't make it right but that is why they get a "pass" on noise.

 

Not to mention, unless there is a municipal noise ordnance capping the noise level it comes back to a judgment call by Police..

 

Not defending the whole thing as I deal with a lot of loud vehicles and motor bikes as my home is a little over 40 ft from the center line of a busy road. Form 5 AM to 1 AM the next morning it is a constant drone of Jake brakes and loud mufflers.

ALL vehicles suffer from load change, add some passengers to your vehicle and the headlights will also change. But then again, bumps and dips in the road changes your headlight aim as well as up and down hills.. Your vehicle is not static, it moves while you drive and you can't stop that either.

 

Buy a Tucker.

 

One of Tucker's signature items was the center light was supposed to turn with the direction of the wheels..

 

In reality, having adaptive headlight that move sounds great, however in practice one needs to remember that doing so adds complexity into the system. That complexity means higher and higher costs, added mechanical failure points, additional computer systems plus more added points of computer failure.

 

One of the problems we face today is way over thinking and way over complexing things.

 

Case in point, my 2020 Ford truck came with auto dimming headlights, great idea, but only works somewhat on a clear night, no rain, no fog and no snow.. Add in other lights, road signs and even road reflectors and that system goes totally out of its mind blinking up and down.. Oh yeah, the windshield must be 100% dirt and spot free in the camera area that the computer uses for that function.. Too many high beam flashes on other drivers and too many false up/downs it made things for me as a driver unsafe so OFF it went, banished to the off position forever, another feature that simply is garbage.

 

And people are dumb enough to want to ride in a self driving car? Yet with modern tech we can't make a headlight auto dim system that just works correctly 100% of the time..

 

Go back to the 1960s where my Dad had a car equipped with auto dimming headlights, used a photo sensor resistor (LDS) mounted on the dash with a tube operated relay system. Pretty much flawless operation in all types of weather..

 

 

Reciprocity with another State’s secondary offense rule?

 

Many drunks drivers are stopped during the overnight hours when observed driving without the vehicle headlamps lit.
 

Back in the day, if an officer was issuing speeding tickets all day, they were called frivolous speeding tickets by other officers. Besides the fact other more serious traffic infractions that are commonly committed are the cause of most accidents. 
 

When there were Highway Patrols and DMV Inspectors, their primary duties were traffic and vehicle safety, which included accident prevention, roadways, and vehicle equipment. 
 

If headlights seemed to be overly bright, an officer would check the sealed beam headlamps for DOT conformity while the lights were turned off, and if the vehicle was equipped with bulb type headlamps, a re-inspection citation was issued. 
 

A vehicle can be seen at night with a headlight or taillight out, not unlike a motorcycle with a single headlight and taillight.
 

A vehicle with illegal bright headlights, wrongly aimed towards oncoming traffic and blinding other motorists, would be more a hazardous for pedestrians or bicyclists on the shoulder of the road. 

 

NHTSA sets headlight standards with vehicles having full fuel tanks, representative weight loads, and tires properly inflated so to determine more realistic guidelines. The guidelines preventing glare should take into account vehicle movement.

 

Multiple studies have proven that loud exhaust systems on motorcycles do not make the rider safer. The majority of motorcycle accidents are either single vehicle, or occur when another vehicle pulls out in front of the motorcycle. The exhaust noise is not heard until the motorcycle passes by, which is too late to prevent an accident.

 

And yes, the Headlight Auto Dim feature that was available in the 50’s and 60’s was a reliable and effective option, unlike today’s version. 

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

Instructors made mistakes with that advice, using the "marker" lights only is for PARKING, not moving, when in motion, and lighting is required to be on, you should always turn on ALL lights (IE headlights and markers).

Hey, we AGREE  on this!❗😁🚗🏎️🚕

 

They are PARKING lights, not marker lights, like on trucks. Cars are not marking anything. 

[Frank DuVal]

10 hours ago, ABear said:

and I move my passenger mirror up until I no longer get headlight glare from cars behind me..

My truck does NOT have this feature, no electrics. And yes, it is a 2011 model. Buying used you get what is available .   😉    Just like my older cars do not have remote right side (nor most remote left side either) mirrors. Back in college I would tie a plastic bag (most were tan around here back then) around the left mirror for driving highways at night to cut down the glare. 🤣

[Anthonyp]

2 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

Hey, we AGREE  on this!❗😁🚗🏎️🚕

 

They are PARKING lights, not marker lights, like on trucks. Cars are not marking anything. 

Yes they are officially called parking lights. But instructors called them ‘marker’ lights so to distinguish their use in this situation.
 

The situation being their use to make a vehicle easier to recognize without the use of headlights when a driver’s vision is adjusting to changing lighting conditions, such as the half hour after sunset and the half hour before sunrise. 

 

Not unlike when fog lights are used during dense fog instead of headlamps, due to the headlights creating a blinding effect.

 

In the past, many States required fog lamps to only operate with the low beam headlights, defeating the purpose of fog lights.
 

Of course, fog lights should be wired to work with the taillights. 

[ABear]

9 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

Yes they are officially called parking lights. But instructors called them ‘marker’ lights so to distinguish their use in this situation.
 

The situation being their use to make a vehicle easier to recognize without the use of headlights when a driver’s vision is adjusting to changing lighting conditions, such as the half hour after sunset and the half hour before sunrise. 

 

Not unlike when fog lights are used during dense fog instead of headlamps, due to the headlights creating a blinding effect.

 

In the past, many States required fog lamps to only operate with the low beam headlights, defeating the purpose of fog lights.
 

Of course, fog lights should be wired to work with the taillights. 

So many wrongs, I don't know where to start.

 

Not sure where you are coming up with this stuff, if it wasn't for the fact that others will get the wrong impression that what you are saying is true, I would have walked away from all of your rambles.

 

Yeah, call them PARKING LIGHTS stop repeating your bad instructors wording, the auto industry calls them parking lights on motor vehicles, lets use that. Now if referring to a towed trailer (semi trailer, flat bed trailer, Travel trailer), those are referred to as "marker" lights since they are not part of the vehicle towing them and they outline or "mark" the outline of the trailer (which trailers by themselves do not have headlights).

 

As stated, PARKING LIGHTS on a motor vehicle are not supposed to be used IN MOTION by themselves, they are for indicating your vehicle is PARKED on the side of the road (IE not in motion).

 

It is "common sense" (yeah I know he is dead) that says, when it starts getting dark (IE Sun down or DUSK), turn on the headlights.. No half hr before or past, when light starts fading the lights should be on. You should even turn on the headlights in bad weather, not half hr before or after (most States require you to turn on your headlights (notice HEADLIGHTS not just parking lights) in bad weather and/or when ever your wipers are running).

 

Fog lights, were never intended to be used without the support of your low beams. Proper fog lights have a very narrow cutoff beam in height and are mounted as low as possible to light the road surface a few feet in front of you.. Think of it light a long narrow slit of light that goes under most fog.. Having lows on also helps OTHER motorists see YOU. They are not a substitute for having low beams on in fog. And yes, I have driven in heavy dense fog and the combination with lows does indeed work fine.

 

There is NO "in the past" for the requirement that the fogs operate only when low beams are on.. Todays vehicles equipped with factory fogs or aux lights must follow the rule you have stated "in the past". 

 

Mine do, I have 2013, 2019, 2020 trucks which are factory equipped with fogs, they fogs turn on with low beams and off with high beams. They cannot be run without having the lows on.., the 2013 has a switch with PARKING LIGHTS ONLY position, PARKING and HEADLIGHTS position and PARKING, HEADLIGHTS AND FOG and then AUTO LIGHTS ON..

 

2019 and 2020 have fogs on a separate button but you can push that button as much as you want and the fogs will not come on until the LOW BEAMS are on..

 

You keep forgetting that a lot of the rules are for making YOU visible to OTHER motorists, parking light only does not make you visible to on coming traffic, but your headlights on low beam will.. Visibility to others is why something called Daylight Running Lights (DRL) are a rule in many places. The moment you start the engine DRLs turn on.. DRLs can be your LOW BEAM at half power or separate dedicated low power DRL lights.

 

I will add, there is NO rule that states that you cannot run headlights in the middle of the day. You can, in fact are encouraged to do so.. Motorcycles are actually required to have the headlights on in daylight when motor is running.

 

The rules are not just for you, they are for everyone and everyone benefits if everyone follows the rules..

 

If you don't like the rules of the road, perhaps time to hang up the keys?

 

 

Edited April 12 by ABear (see edit history)

[Anthonyp]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

So many wrongs, I don't know where to start.

 

Not sure where you are coming up with this stuff, if it wasn't for the fact that others will get the wrong impression that what you are saying is true, I would have walked away from all of your rambles.

 

Yeah, call them PARKING LIGHTS stop repeating your bad instructors wording, the auto industry calls them parking lights on motor vehicles, lets use that. Now if referring to a towed trailer (semi trailer, flat bed trailer, Travel trailer), those are referred to as "marker" lights since they are not part of the vehicle towing them and they outline or "mark" the outline of the trailer (which trailers by themselves do not have headlights).

 

As stated, PARKING LIGHTS on a motor vehicle are not supposed to be used IN MOTION by themselves, they are for indicating your vehicle is PARKED on the side of the road (IE not in motion).

 

It is "common sense" (yeah I know he is dead) that says, when it starts getting dark (IE Sun down or DUSK), turn on the headlights.. No half hr before or past, when light starts fading the lights should be on. You should even turn on the headlights in bad weather, not half hr before or after (most States require you to turn on your headlights (notice HEADLIGHTS not just parking lights) in bad weather and/or when ever your wipers are running).

 

Fog lights, were never intended to be used without the support of your low beams. Proper fog lights have a very narrow cutoff beam in height and are mounted as low as possible to light the road surface a few feet in front of you.. Think of it light a long narrow slit of light that goes under most fog.. Having lows on also helps OTHER motorists see YOU. They are not a substitute for having low beams on in fog. And yes, I have driven in heavy dense fog and the combination with lows does indeed work fine.

 

There is NO "in the past" for the requirement that the fogs operate only when low beams are on.. Todays vehicles equipped with factory fogs or aux lights must follow the rule you have stated "in the past". 

 

Mine do, I have 2013, 2019, 2020 trucks which are factory equipped with fogs, they fogs turn on with low beams and off with high beams. They cannot be run without having the lows on.., the 2013 has a switch with PARKING LIGHTS ONLY position, PARKING and HEADLIGHTS position and PARKING, HEADLIGHTS AND FOG and then AUTO LIGHTS ON..

 

2019 and 2020 have fogs on a separate button but you can push that button as much as you want and the fogs will not come on until the LOW BEAMS are on..

 

You keep forgetting that a lot of the rules are for making YOU visible to OTHER motorists, parking light only does not make you visible to on coming traffic, but your headlights on low beam will.. Visibility to others is why something called Daylight Running Lights (DRL) are a rule in many places. The moment you start the engine DRLs turn on.. DRLs can be your LOW BEAM at half power or separate dedicated low power DRL lights.

 

I will add, there is NO rule that states that you cannot run headlights in the middle of the day. You can, in fact are encouraged to do so.. Motorcycles are actually required to have the headlights on in daylight when motor is running.

 

The rules are not just for you, they are for everyone and everyone benefits if everyone follows the rules..

 

If you don't like the rules of the road, perhaps time to hang up the keys?

 

 

What are the lights called on the front and rear sides of passenger vehicles, vans, and pickup trucks?  Like many other devices and equipment, parking lights are now used for other than when the vehicle is parked. Even police vehicles are seen operating with the parking lights on when there is sufficient light to see, but the driver wants other motorists to easier see their vehicle when light conditions are starting to diminish. In inclement weather, when sight distance is less than 500 or 1,000 feet, depending where you reside or are located, headlamps must then be lit. 
 

Many are now against the Wipers On/Headlights On law, which besides being found unnecessary, is now contributing to headlight light glare, especially when the vehicle is equipped with high output headlights, which is reflecting off the wet roadway and other objects. If a downpour, the minimum sight distance law mandate would dictate the use of headlights. 
 

Many legislators with common sense passed laws stating headlamps must be lit a half hour past sunset, and a half hour before sunrise, so to give drivers vision time to adjust to the changing light conditions still occurring after sunset and before sunrise, without being blinded by the light from oncoming headlamps.

 

Yes, fog lights have a different light pattern from low and high beam headlamps, but that is intentional. The light pattern from fog lamps, either with a white or amber color, is to keep the light from reflecting back from the fog and making the condition worse, as occurs with low beam headlamps. And motorists in other vehicles can see your vehicle during the daytime with the fog lights lit when dense fog, heavy rain, or snowy conditions are present. 
 

Many times when driving at night in dense fog or when the flakes during a snow storm are creating a similar effect, drivers are seen slowing down and turning on the turn signal or hazard lights with the headlights off, so to reduce the glare, and better see the installed road reflectors or reflectorized paint markings. 
 

Like parking lights, hazard lights, other than those for commercial vehicles, are not suppose to be used when the vehicle is moving.  
 

The law in most States permit fog and auxiliary lights to operate without the low beams on, as long as the parking lights are on at the same time. I have leased new vehicles since 1992, and all but one, permitted the fog lights to work without the low headlamps lit. The one was an import from Germany and sold under an American brand. 
 

The front parking lights on vehicles used to go off when the headlights were turn on. Back in the 60’s, the USDOT changed the regulations to require the front parking lights to be lit when the headlamps are lit.
 

Daytime Running Lights (DRL) do not emit the same intensity as low beam headlamps, as you noted. A much lower intensity is used, whether the headlamps or a separate lighting device is used.
 

DRL’s were implemented to make a vehicle visible during the daytime, specifically when the sun is shining and creates a glare that masks the vehicle image. Subaru and other manufacturers had to recall vehicles because the higher intensity of the DRL was actually blinding oncoming drivers, by creating a glare even during the daytime. 

 

The same blinding effect created by oncoming HID and LED headlamps at night, also occur during the daytime. This includes when a vehicle is cresting a hill, hitting bumps in the road, carrying cargo or passengers, negotiating a curve, or is traveling on a higher roadway. 
 

Maybe, like the Highway Patrol and DMV Inspectors used to do when a rule or regulation was nonsensical, ineffective, or was counterproductive, they worked to have it changed so it benefited everyone.
 

Not unlike speed limits set too low, improper use of STOP signs, and removal of safe designated passing zones. As well as ensuring motorists are using the proper highway lanes, and not blocking the passing lanes, which is every lane except for the far right travel lane. These are just a few examples. 

[Frank DuVal]

53 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Many legislators with common sense passed laws stating headlamps must be lit a half hour past sunset, and a half hour before sunrise, so to give drivers vision time to adjust to the changing light conditions still occurring after sunset and before sunrise, without being blinded by the light from oncoming headlamps.

That was the old rule in Virginia, it is now written as sunset to sunrise. And they say using your headlamps all the time is better.

 

If it was to allow eyes to adjust for changing conditions, then putting headlights on before sunset would be better, as the pupils are small then (in the sunshine), not expanded as they are when the sunlight goes away! 😉🚕🚒

 

I think police cars and firetrucks have way too bright of lights, as it is hard to even see the policeman waving you on or waving to stop you since all you can see are the lights. They should be taught to be lit themselves so other drivers can see them! Standing beyond the bright lights makes them impossible to see. 🚓🚒🚓

[Anthonyp]

5 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

That was the old rule in Virginia, it is now written as sunset to sunrise. And they say using your headlamps all the time is better.

 

If it was to allow eyes to adjust for changing conditions, then putting headlights on before sunset would be better, as the pupils are small then (in the sunshine), not expanded as they are when the sunlight goes away! 😉🚕🚒

 

I think police cars and firetrucks have way too bright of lights, as it is hard to even see the policeman waving you on or waving to stop you since all you can see are the lights. They should be taught to be lit themselves so other drivers can see them! Standing beyond the bright lights makes them impossible to see. 🚓🚒🚓

You are absolutely correct about the overly bright and blinding emergency lights. They went from not having enough emergency lights to having way too many.
 

Especially when equipped with LED emergency lights. LED lights, which are bad enough when used in headlamps, are even more blinding when used for emergency lights, which have no cutoff or shielding, permitting the bright light to disperse without any limitations.
 

Not to mention the high blue wave length emitted by LED diodes, that a driver’s eye does not react to. Unlike most other lighting, the pupil does not constrict and permits the extremely bright light to enter the eye unrestricted.  
 

An officer will be blinded by the LED emergency lights from his or her own vehicle. Which which could be catastrophic. Many law enforcement agencies, after testing LED emergency lights, either retained or returned to incandescent lit emergency roof mounted lights. 
 

The effect is even worse with advent of stealth patrol vehicles, which have even more LED emergency lights to offset the lack of a roof mounted light bar, which are blinding themselves if lighted by LED diodes.
 

An officer said the use of LED emergency lights is like an officer shining the light from his service flashlight into the eyes of the operator of an approaching vehicle.
 

Another said use of LED emergency lights is as hazardous as installing dark tint to the front side windows of a patrol vehicle. While another said LED emergency lights were not only blinding motorists, but the officers themselves, which placed them in dangerous situations.
 

In addition to the LED lights being blinding, the hidden emergency lights on stealth patrol vehicles are easily obstructed whenever another vehicle or object is between the stealth patrol vehicle and other motorists. 
 

During the hours of dusk and dawn, lighting is sufficient to see without the need of illumination from headlamps.
 

During this time, a driver’s pupils are beginning to dilate, or are still partially dilated, because of the lower natural lighting after the sun sets or breaks over the horizon.

 

The light from oncoming headlamps creates a temporary blind spot until the eyes can react and recover.
 

Hence why parking lights are sufficient for others to see your vehicle, without the blind spot created with use of headlights that are not needed for illumination during that period.
 

If conditions warrant the need for headlights, then of course they would be used. 
 

The term parking lights is not unlike the term parking brake.
 

If the service brakes became inoperable for any reason while a vehicle was moving, undoubtedly the driver would not hesitate to use the parking brake, because of its common name, to slow and stop the vehicle.
 

The same brake is also known to some as the emergency brake. 
 

With many instructors now suggesting or encouraging drivers to use the vehicle headlights 24/7, it is not surprising to see many vehicles operating at night with a burned out headlamp, as well as taillights.
 

Many would say it is more important safety wise to have two headlamps working at night than it is to use the headlights when conditions do not warrant, or require their use, or when their use is less beneficial. 

[Deadpurpledog]

Well WPVT. . . Did anyone answer your question?  Made the conversion on 67 Riviera and can’t be happier.  They look pretty much the same, however, brightness and pattern are orders of magnitude better.  Not like a new vehicle, yet significantly better than original.

[Aussi John 1]

I have a 2006 Chrysler 5.7 Hemi, which has HID headlights. When I first got it 19 years ago, I use to get flashed by the oncoming traffic. Now that people are use to HID lights, I rarely get flashed. Also when a car with these lights goes over a speed hump, it appears that the driver has flashed his lights.

[WPVT]

21 hours ago, Deadpurpledog said:

Well WPVT. . . Did anyone answer your question?  Made the conversion on 67 Riviera and can’t be happier.  They look pretty much the same, however, brightness and pattern are orders of magnitude better.  Not like a new vehicle, yet significantly better than original.

Thanks. This turned into a topic that seems to invite comment and observations.

 I think a changeover to LED's would be helpful, as would a new windshield. I've experienced what a difference a new windshield can make compared to a 20 year old windshield, and it's pretty surprising. 

 

[Deadpurpledog]

3 hours ago, WPVT said:

Thanks. This turned into a topic that seems to invite comment and observations.

 I think a changeover to LED's would be helpful, as would a new windshield. I've experienced what a difference a new windshield can make compared to a 20 year old windshield, and it's pretty surprising. 

 

I feel the same way about tinting.  Seemed like a good idea and I included windshield. . . .what a mistake!

[WPVT]

6 hours ago, Deadpurpledog said:

I feel the same way about tinting.  Seemed like a good idea and I included windshield. . . .what a mistake!

I only meant a new windshield that was without all the micro-scratches on the old one. 

[Deadpurpledog]

3 hours ago, WPVT said:

I only meant a new windshield that was without all the micro-scratches on the old one. 

I know.  Simply adding a similar, but different, lesson.

[ABear]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:42 PM, Anthonyp said:

What are the lights called on the front and rear sides of passenger vehicles, vans, and pickup trucks?

MOTOR VEHICLES HAVE PARKING LIGHTS.

 

Front PARKING LIGHTS also are combined with TURN SIGNAL LIGHTS and those are two DIFFERENT brightnesses. PARKING LIGHTS are steady DIM and turn signals ARE BRIGHT FLASHING.

 

The REAR Taillights can do TRIPLE DUTY as in dim PARKING LIGHTS, Bright STEADY STOP LIGHTS and BLINKING BRIGHT TURN SIGNAL LIGHTS.

 

The side lights ARE PARKING LIGHTS which are DIM, Front side PARKING LIGHTS sometimes are combo DIM PARKING lights a brighter BLINKING TURNING LIGHTS (In this case, it is allowed IF the front PARKING/TURN lights do not fold around the front to the side).

 

ALL of the above are required for ALL passenger, truck, van, SUV, Sedans, two passenger and up convertibles, semi tractor, motor homes, busses, homemade motor vehicles all which are MECHANICALLY MOTOR OPERATED DRIVEN (ICE, steam, Electric) and not animal or human powered as of the date of manufacture of that vehicle. New vehicles must conform to the latest requirements, older vehicles are grandfathered back to what the vehicle was Originally equipped with (OEM equipment).

 

All NON MOTORIZED vehicles like Semi trailers, flatbed trailers, Travel trailers which are non self powered (IE do not have any Mechanical motorized means to self power it) have MARKER LIGHTS, those lights help other motorists see the outline of the trailer in order to be able to AVOID accidentally running into the trailer.

 

For some reason you seem to like to find obscure reasons why things shouldn't be the way it is..

 

OK, well here you go..

 

From the "horses mouth"..

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/571108-ncc-230201-001-led-headlights-m-baker

 

"NHTSA is authorized by the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Safety Act, 49 U.S.C. Chapter 301) to issue FMVSS that set performance requirements for new motor vehicles and new items of motor vehicle equipment. The Safety Act requires manufacturers to self-certify that their vehicles and equipment conform to all applicable FMVSS in effect on the date of manufacture. NHTSA also investigates safety-related defects.

FMVSS No. 108, “Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment,” applies to “[p]assenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers (except pole trailers and trailer converter dollies), and motorcycles” and covers, among other things, “original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment” for motor vehicles. The standard specifies performance requirements for headlamps. The most common types of headlamps are integral beam (S10.14) and replaceable bulb (S10.15, S11) headlamps.

NHTSA has stated that LED light sources are permitted as part of an integral beam headlamp if they are wired in series such that a failure of one LED would cause all the LEDs to cease functioning, and they otherwise comply with all relevant FMVSS.1 Paragraph S4 of FMVSS

No. 108 defines an integral beam headlamp as “a headlamp … comprising an integral and indivisible optical assembly including lens, reflector, and light source, except that a headlamp conforming to paragraph S10.18.8 or paragraph S10.18.9 may have a lens designed to be replaceable.” The standard does not contain performance requirements for a light source that is part of an integral beam headlamp, but instead specifies performance requirements for the complete headlamp. These include (among other things) photometry, through minimum and maximum candela at specified test points,2 color, which must remain within specified boundaries,3 and that the headlamp be steady burning.4

While LED light sources that are part of an integral beam headlamp are permitted as noted above, no LED light source is currently permitted to be used in a replaceable bulb headlamp. FMVSS No. 108 contains specific requirements for the replaceable light sources (i.e., bulbs) used in replaceable bulb headlamps. These requirements are intended to support light source interchangeability. Paragraph S11 of the standard requires that “[e]ach replaceable light source must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications furnished with respect to it pursuant to part 564 of this chapter[.]”5 Part 564 requires that replaceable bulb manufacturers submit to NHTSA for review and acceptance various design specifications for the bulb. If accepted, this design information is then placed in a publicly available docket to facilitate the manufacture and use of those light sources. As of the date of this letter, no submission that includes LEDs as the light source for a replaceable bulb headlamp has been listed in the docket. Therefore, no LED replaceable light source may be used in a replaceable bulb headlamp.

 

Discussion

Pursuant to FMVSS No. 108, paragraphs S4 and S10.14, LEDs are allowed to be used as a light source in integral beam headlamps as long as the headlamp conforms to all applicable headlamp requirements in FMVSS No. 108. However, LEDs are not currently permitted in a replaceable bulb headlamp. Nevertheless, illegal LED headlamp replaceable light sources may be available for purchase on the internet, and although these lights do not conform to the requirements of FMVSS No. 108, some consumers purchase and install these LED light sources in their replaceable bulb headlamps. While NHTSA regulates the manufacture and sale of light sources, it generally does not regulate the modifications individuals make to their own vehicles. It is therefore left to State law to address installation of an LED replaceable light source in a headlamp.

FMVSS No. 108 does not directly regulate what you describe as peak luminance as measured in nits or the spectral power distribution of the headlamp light source. However, this is indirectly regulated through the headlamp performance requirements, such as the photometry and chromaticity requirements. Additionally, flicker is regulated through the requirement that lower beam headlamps be steady burning. We also note that, although FMVSS No. 108 requires that the light emitted by headlamps be white, the permissible boundary of white includes colors that may be perceived by the human eye as white with a yellow tint and white with a blue tint.6"

[Anthonyp]

20 minutes ago, ABear said:

MOTOR VEHICLES HAVE PARKING LIGHTS.

 

Front PARKING LIGHTS also are combined with TURN SIGNAL LIGHTS and those are two DIFFERENT brightnesses. PARKING LIGHTS are steady DIM and turn signals ARE BRIGHT FLASHING.

 

The REAR Taillights can do TRIPLE DUTY as in dim PARKING LIGHTS, Bright STEADY STOP LIGHTS and BLINKING BRIGHT TURN SIGNAL LIGHTS.

 

The side lights ARE PARKING LIGHTS which are DIM, Front side PARKING LIGHTS sometimes are combo DIM PARKING lights a brighter BLINKING TURNING LIGHTS (In this case, it is allowed IF the front PARKING/TURN lights do not fold around the front to the side).

 

ALL of the above are required for ALL passenger, truck, van, SUV, Sedans, two passenger and up convertibles, semi tractor, motor homes, busses, homemade motor vehicles all which are MECHANICALLY MOTOR OPERATED DRIVEN (ICE, steam, Electric) and not animal or human powered as of the date of manufacture of that vehicle. New vehicles must conform to the latest requirements, older vehicles are grandfathered back to what the vehicle was Originally equipped with (OEM equipment).

 

All NON MOTORIZED vehicles like Semi trailers, flatbed trailers, Travel trailers which are non self powered (IE do not have any Mechanical motorized means to self power it) have MARKER LIGHTS, those lights help other motorists see the outline of the trailer in order to be able to AVOID accidentally running into the trailer.

 

For some reason you seem to like to find obscure reasons why things shouldn't be the way it is..

 

OK, well here you go..

 

From the "horses mouth"..

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/571108-ncc-230201-001-led-headlights-m-baker

 

"NHTSA is authorized by the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Safety Act, 49 U.S.C. Chapter 301) to issue FMVSS that set performance requirements for new motor vehicles and new items of motor vehicle equipment. The Safety Act requires manufacturers to self-certify that their vehicles and equipment conform to all applicable FMVSS in effect on the date of manufacture. NHTSA also investigates safety-related defects.

FMVSS No. 108, “Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment,” applies to “[p]assenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers (except pole trailers and trailer converter dollies), and motorcycles” and covers, among other things, “original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment” for motor vehicles. The standard specifies performance requirements for headlamps. The most common types of headlamps are integral beam (S10.14) and replaceable bulb (S10.15, S11) headlamps.

NHTSA has stated that LED light sources are permitted as part of an integral beam headlamp if they are wired in series such that a failure of one LED would cause all the LEDs to cease functioning, and they otherwise comply with all relevant FMVSS.1 Paragraph S4 of FMVSS

No. 108 defines an integral beam headlamp as “a headlamp … comprising an integral and indivisible optical assembly including lens, reflector, and light source, except that a headlamp conforming to paragraph S10.18.8 or paragraph S10.18.9 may have a lens designed to be replaceable.” The standard does not contain performance requirements for a light source that is part of an integral beam headlamp, but instead specifies performance requirements for the complete headlamp. These include (among other things) photometry, through minimum and maximum candela at specified test points,2 color, which must remain within specified boundaries,3 and that the headlamp be steady burning.4

While LED light sources that are part of an integral beam headlamp are permitted as noted above, no LED light source is currently permitted to be used in a replaceable bulb headlamp. FMVSS No. 108 contains specific requirements for the replaceable light sources (i.e., bulbs) used in replaceable bulb headlamps. These requirements are intended to support light source interchangeability. Paragraph S11 of the standard requires that “[e]ach replaceable light source must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications furnished with respect to it pursuant to part 564 of this chapter[.]”5 Part 564 requires that replaceable bulb manufacturers submit to NHTSA for review and acceptance various design specifications for the bulb. If accepted, this design information is then placed in a publicly available docket to facilitate the manufacture and use of those light sources. As of the date of this letter, no submission that includes LEDs as the light source for a replaceable bulb headlamp has been listed in the docket. Therefore, no LED replaceable light source may be used in a replaceable bulb headlamp.

 

Discussion

Pursuant to FMVSS No. 108, paragraphs S4 and S10.14, LEDs are allowed to be used as a light source in integral beam headlamps as long as the headlamp conforms to all applicable headlamp requirements in FMVSS No. 108. However, LEDs are not currently permitted in a replaceable bulb headlamp. Nevertheless, illegal LED headlamp replaceable light sources may be available for purchase on the internet, and although these lights do not conform to the requirements of FMVSS No. 108, some consumers purchase and install these LED light sources in their replaceable bulb headlamps. While NHTSA regulates the manufacture and sale of light sources, it generally does not regulate the modifications individuals make to their own vehicles. It is therefore left to State law to address installation of an LED replaceable light source in a headlamp.

FMVSS No. 108 does not directly regulate what you describe as peak luminance as measured in nits or the spectral power distribution of the headlamp light source. However, this is indirectly regulated through the headlamp performance requirements, such as the photometry and chromaticity requirements. Additionally, flicker is regulated through the requirement that lower beam headlamps be steady burning. We also note that, although FMVSS No. 108 requires that the light emitted by headlamps be white, the permissible boundary of white includes colors that may be perceived by the human eye as white with a yellow tint and white with a blue tint.6"

And a parking brake is called a parking, but used as an emergency brake when needed. One would not elect to forgo the use of the parking brake if the service brakes malfunctioned, just because it is called a parking brake.

[ABear]

21 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

And a parking brake is called a parking, but used as an emergency brake when needed. One would not elect to forgo the use of the parking brake if the service brakes malfunctioned, just because it is called a parking brake.

AND once again, you are not correct.

 

How about giving it a rest?

 

Vehicle manufacturers no longer call it an "Emergency brake", Nope, they now call it a "PARKING BRAKE". its intention is to use it for PARKING ON HILLS in case anything happens to the drive line and transmission parking mech fails to keep the vehicle from rolling.

 

Yes, I grew up with it being called EMERGENCY BRAKE, but as time has moved on from the "dark ages and Mid-evil times" so too has terminology has moved on. Lets face it, Have you really tried applying a foot pedal PARKING BRAKE while in motion? Pretty much all foot pedals auto lock into down position, in order to use in an Emergency while driving, don't you think it would be not just awkward but highly dangerous to reach down with one hand and pull and hold the release? Not to mention there are versions of foot pedals that do not have a hand release, no, instead you must use your foot to push further down on the pedal and then let up.. Even had versions have a small release button that you must press down and hold to feather the brakes on and off..

 

Perhaps time to review modern day car owners manuals?

[ABear]

AnthonyP,

 

You really do seem highly confused with automotive terminology, I can't tell if you are for real or just playing around..

 

I will meet your bluff on lighting uses and terminology, since your point of view is from VT, I looked up VT 2024 Drivers Manual.

 

Hopefully the Moderators don't take offense to a long series of posts but here we go.

 

Part 1

 

https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VN-007-Drivers_Manual.pdf

 

I would highly recommend that every driver should at least periodically review your States Drivers manual as over the years rules and laws do change which may superceed or supplement rules and laws.

 

I was going to just dump everything in one post but since you have a lot of confusion I think breaking it up into smaller parts and commenting on those parts might be helpful. VT drivers manual will be in italics and my comments will be standard text..

 

So, lets start drivers school lesson 1. For context, page 25 is what you are supposed to do to do your driving test.

 

Page 25

 

Driver readiness

 

Before you drive your vehicle you should do the following:
1.Adjust the seat properly.
2.Adjust all mirrors.
3.Test the foot and parking/emergency brakes
4.Adjust and fasten the safety belt.
5.Lock the doors.                      
6.Turn on the headlights.    

 

My comment, doesn't say turn on parking lights or fogs, it says headlights which will turn on the parking lights as per DOT requirements.

 

Page 46

 

HAZARDOUS DRIVING CONDITIONS   
When visibility is poor, such as in fog, heavy rain, or heavy snow, use your low beam headlights.   
If  you  cannot  clearly  see  persons  or  vehicles  500  feet  ahead,  the  law  requires drivers to have headlights turned on.  

 

My comments, yes, the requirement is to turn on LOW BEAMs in poor visibility, fog, heavy rain or heavy snow. No fogs only are allowed, period, fogs are to be used as supplemental lighting along with low beams.

 

Page 49

 

Reduced Visibility
Daytime Driving  Studies  have  shown  that  driving  with  low  beam  headlights  on  during  the  daytime  reduces  the  risk  of  head-on  collisions  by  more  than  20%.  

 

My comments, driving with low beams during daylight hours on IS recommended, while not required, it has been studied and it can help other drivers see you.

 

Automobile  manufacturers  have   installed   daytime   running   lights   on   many   vehicles.   These   lights   come   on   automatically and should not be confused with your headlights. Daytime running lights and  headlights  can  help  other  drivers  to  see  your  vehicle  during  daylight  hours.    

 

My comments, This is talking about DAYTIME RUNNING LIGHTS or DRLs which are not as bright as normal headlights but once again studies have shown that they can help increase your visibility to other motorists.

 

Remember, when snow, rain, and fog limit visibility you must turn your headlights on.  
The best practice is to always drive with at least your low beam headlights on, even in the daytime.

 

My comments, once again, headlights on in daylight hrs improves visibilty of you to other motorists in not only bad weather but even on a sunny clear day which is why it is called "best practice".

 

Note: Parking lights are to be used only when your vehicle is parked.

 

My comments, Note, VT calls them PARKING LIGHTS and they are to be used by themselves ONLY when parked or stationary. When in motion, you MUST also use at least turn on your low beams.

 

Night Driving
It is more dangerous to drive at night than in the daytime because you cannot see as far ahead at night.  
The law requires headlights on vehicles to be turned on a half hour after  sunset  to  a  half  hour  before  sunrise.  
Be  sure  to  turn  on  your  headlights—your daytime running lights may give you the impression that your headlights are on. 

 

My comments, OK so yes, this one you have gotten a "correct answer", sort of. The problem with the sunset/sunrise rule is it highly subjective and is the MINIMUM requirement. Technically speaking it is an outdated rule which has been superceeded by page number 25 under driver readiness #6 rule. There is no rule that says you can't exceed the minimum headlight dusk/dawn requirements, in fact it has been mentioned multiple times in this manual encouraging you to do so.

 

Techically speaking the sunset/sunrise rule is flawed, reason it is flawed is when driving on a road that is East/West, you and other drivers will typically blinded by the setting and rising sun. In reality, once the sun is on the horizon BEFORE setting you should have your headlights on and at sunrise you shouldn't turn the headlights off until the sun has well above the horizon.. I travels a pretty long distance every day on a East/West road in mornings and evenings as my daily commute to and from work.

 

Will continue on another post..

 

 

 

[Anthonyp]

Exactly my point. Even if awkward to use because application type, the parking brake is still used as an emergency brake when necessary. 

[ABear]

Continuing VT Drivers manual..

 

USE HIGH AND LOW HEADLIGHT BEAMS PROPERLY

Use high beam when driving in the open country with few other vehicles.  
Even with the high beams, speed must be lower than by day.Always use low beam when approaching other vehicles or pedestrians so as not to blind the driver or pedestrian. Also use low beam when driving in areas with streetlights or fog and when following another vehicle.Courteous Drivers Dim Their Headlights    When  driving  a  motor  vehicle  at  night,  you  should  promptly  dim  your  headlights when meeting or following another vehicle

 

My comments, once again, using Low beams in dimly lit areas and fog is required.

 

Approaching Headlights       

If you look directly at oncoming lights, you could be blinded for several seconds.  

To avoid  being  temporarily  blinded,  you  should  look  ahead  towards  the  right  edge  of  the  highway until the bright lights have gone by and your vision has returned to normal. This practice will also help you detect bicyclists or pedestrians who may be close to the edge of the road.

 

My comments, Yep, exactly that same thing I have mentioned over and over on how to handle on coming headlights and while not mentioned in the VT book, it is the same procedure to use for any time you find someone with high beams or misadjusted lights.

 

Page 59

 

Inspection

Your vehicle must be inspected once a year.
The  following  equipment  should  be  safe,  in  good  working  order,  and  properly adjusted:

Page 60
Lights
Your headlights  must be kept working properly.  Headlights working properly and used  properly  show  that  the  driver  is  thinking  of  the  safety  of  other  drivers.  If  your  headlights are dim, aimed too low, or dirty, you will not be able to see as far ahead as you should. If the  lights  are  aimed  too  high  or  do  not  go  to  low  beam  when  a  vehicle  comes toward you, your headlights may blind the other driver.  Tail lights, stop lights, directional lights, and parking lights should always be working properly. The back license plate must be lighted so it can be seen and read at least 50 feet from the back of the vehicle. When bulbs burn out, they should be replaced right away with the manufacturer’s recommended replacements.

 

My comments, VT does not call anything "markers", the lights your instructor called markers are actually your PARKING LIGHTS which have multiple functions as Tailights, Stop lights and directional lights (turn signals).

 

Now there is a bit of "rub" with non headlight lighting, there is additional lights the can be present, they are called CLEARANCE MARKER lights, these play a different role which on vehicles that do not have front/rear PARKING lights that wrap around to the sides. Clearance marker lights help other motorists see the outline of the side of your vehicle. Clearance marker lights are also used to identify the width of your vehicle in the case of vehicles that may be or exceed 8.5' you will see multiple amber lights above the cab on a pickup or semi tractor. On the rear of trailers of 8.5' or greater there will be cluster of three red clearance markers, on trailers there can be additional clearance markers on the side to help motorists see how long the trailer is.. Then there is colors, front lights whether Parking or clearance must be amber, rear parking lights and clearance markers must be red.. Color difference helps to determine front from rear.

 

Now if you have stayed with me so far and you are saying to yourself that you are right calling the parking lights as markers you would be wrong, Clearance markers must be wired to be turned on with the PARKING LIGHTS. Making clearance markers into PARKING LIGHTS when not in motion and when in motion your low beams should be on with the PARKING LIGHTS and clearance markers.

 

Your instructors did you wrong, but with some re-education you can overcome the shortfall of your bad instructors.
 

[ABear]

2 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Exactly my point. Even if awkward to use because application type, the parking brake is still used as an emergency brake when necessary. 

No, no, no. There IS a reason that they no longer all it an Emergency brake..

 

With nearly all vehicles now days sporting 4 wheel disc brakes, the PARKING brake setup is severely UNDERSIZED to stop you. One the rear disc, there is a hidden small drum, inside is very small drum brake shoes.. Those are not sufficient to stop you.

 

For that reason, they started calling them PARKING BRAKES.

 

With the advent and requirement of dual master cylinders, you can have a failure of one of the the two brake circuits and still be able to stop without an emergency brake.

 

I HAVE had that happen, yes your brake pedal will drop a lot, but you will still have plenty of brake pedal to get you slowed down to a stop. No it won't stop on a dime but emergency brakes never, ever did that either.

 

Move on. Nothing to see.

 

[Anthonyp]

25 minutes ago, ABear said:

Continuing VT Drivers manual..

 

USE HIGH AND LOW HEADLIGHT BEAMS PROPERLY

Use high beam when driving in the open country with few other vehicles.  
Even with the high beams, speed must be lower than by day.Always use low beam when approaching other vehicles or pedestrians so as not to blind the driver or pedestrian. Also use low beam when driving in areas with streetlights or fog and when following another vehicle.Courteous Drivers Dim Their Headlights    When  driving  a  motor  vehicle  at  night,  you  should  promptly  dim  your  headlights when meeting or following another vehicle

 

My comments, once again, using Low beams in dimly lit areas and fog is required.

 

Approaching Headlights       

If you look directly at oncoming lights, you could be blinded for several seconds.  

To avoid  being  temporarily  blinded,  you  should  look  ahead  towards  the  right  edge  of  the  highway until the bright lights have gone by and your vision has returned to normal. This practice will also help you detect bicyclists or pedestrians who may be close to the edge of the road.

 

My comments, Yep, exactly that same thing I have mentioned over and over on how to handle on coming headlights and while not mentioned in the VT book, it is the same procedure to use for any time you find someone with high beams or misadjusted lights.

 

Page 59

 

Inspection

Your vehicle must be inspected once a year.
The  following  equipment  should  be  safe,  in  good  working  order,  and  properly adjusted:

Page 60
Lights
Your headlights  must be kept working properly.  Headlights working properly and used  properly  show  that  the  driver  is  thinking  of  the  safety  of  other  drivers.  If  your  headlights are dim, aimed too low, or dirty, you will not be able to see as far ahead as you should. If the  lights  are  aimed  too  high  or  do  not  go  to  low  beam  when  a  vehicle  comes toward you, your headlights may blind the other driver.  Tail lights, stop lights, directional lights, and parking lights should always be working properly. The back license plate must be lighted so it can be seen and read at least 50 feet from the back of the vehicle. When bulbs burn out, they should be replaced right away with the manufacturer’s recommended replacements.

 

My comments, VT does not call anything "markers", the lights your instructor called markers are actually your PARKING LIGHTS which have multiple functions as Tailights, Stop lights and directional lights (turn signals).

 

Now there is a bit of "rub" with non headlight lighting, there is additional lights the can be present, they are called CLEARANCE MARKER lights, these play a different role which on vehicles that do not have front/rear PARKING lights that wrap around to the sides. Clearance marker lights help other motorists see the outline of the side of your vehicle. Clearance marker lights are also used to identify the width of your vehicle in the case of vehicles that may be or exceed 8.5' you will see multiple amber lights above the cab on a pickup or semi tractor. On the rear of trailers of 8.5' or greater there will be cluster of three red clearance markers, on trailers there can be additional clearance markers on the side to help motorists see how long the trailer is.. Then there is colors, front lights whether Parking or clearance must be amber, rear parking lights and clearance markers must be red.. Color difference helps to determine front from rear.

 

Now if you have stayed with me so far and you are saying to yourself that you are right calling the parking lights as markers you would be wrong, Clearance markers must be wired to be turned on with the PARKING LIGHTS. Making clearance markers into PARKING LIGHTS when not in motion and when in motion your low beams should be on with the PARKING LIGHTS and clearance markers.

 

Your instructors did you wrong, but with some re-education you can overcome the shortfall of your bad instructors.
 

The instructors were calling them marker lights because they could be used so others can better visually see your vehicle when use of headlights are not warranted or required. 
 

Sort of like the parking brake that is suppose to be set whenever a vehicle is parked, but is called an emergency brake whenever the service brakes are unable to stop a moving vehicle.
 

I get your point though. 

[Anthonyp]

24 minutes ago, ABear said:

No, no, no. There IS a reason that they no longer all it an Emergency brake..

 

With nearly all vehicles now days sporting 4 wheel disc brakes, the PARKING brake setup is severely UNDERSIZED to stop you. One the rear disc, there is a hidden small drum, inside is very small drum brake shoes.. Those are not sufficient to stop you.

 

For that reason, they started calling them PARKING BRAKES.

 

With the advent and requirement of dual master cylinders, you can have a failure of one of the the two brake circuits and still be able to stop without an emergency brake.

 

I HAVE had that happen, yes your brake pedal will drop a lot, but you will still have plenty of brake pedal to get you slowed down to a stop. No it won't stop on a dime but emergency brakes never, ever did that either.

 

Move on. Nothing to see.

 

Emergency brakes have stopped vehicles when the service brakes became inoperable. Yes, an emergency brake will not function as efficient the service brakes, but it will slow down and eventually stop a vehicle.
 

Dual master cylinders have been known to fail either fully or partially. Many times, when a partial failure occurs, and the vehicle needs to stop or slow down faster than either the remaining front or rear set of brakes will permit, application of the emergency brake will increase the slow down time, or decrease the stopping distance. 

[ABear]

3 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Dual master cylinders have been known to fail either fully or partially. Many times, when a partial failure occurs, and the vehicle needs to stop or slow down faster than either the remaining front or rear set of brakes will permit, application of the emergency brake will increase the slow down time, or decrease the stopping distance.

 

 

You are pulling straws with that argument, that would be an extremely rare event.

 

Besides, adding in brakes to the mix is nothing more creating a smoke screen and attempting to deflect the facts I have presented about HEADLIGHTS.

 

In other words you are dragging the conversation completely off topic..

 

Next you will argue that one has to put hay and oats into your tank to feed the horses under the hood..

[Anthonyp]

Need to end these conversations as need to help my neighbors, who are becoming annoyed or harmed, by motorcycles with loud exhausts. Some have medical conditions that are exasperated or set off by the needlessly loud exhausts.
 

Attempting to have Federal standards and regulations for motorcycle mufflers and exhaust noise adopted by State agencies and departments. Undoubtedly will get much pushback by organizations, groups, individuals, and officials who buy into or endorse the disproven and discredited  Loud Pipes-Saves Lives slogan. 

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

The instructors were calling them marker lights because they could be used so others can better visually see your vehicle when use of headlights are not warranted or required. 

And there is the flaw in your argument again. Repeating BAD advice does not make it GOOD advice!😲

 

If one wants to be seen, nothing works BETTER than turning on the headlamps.

 

If your instructor taught you to hold the car on a hill at a traffic light by riding the clutch, would you repeat that advice? ❓ 

 

Again in the semi truck/trailer game there are marker lights. They are seen on roofs of semi trucks (and pickups that think they are semi trucks 😉) and sides of trailers. On passenger cars? No. OK, we do call them side markers on cars, but they are designed to come on with the headlamps, since they are part of the tail lamp system. We DO NOT call those red things on the rear of the car rear marker lamps!🤣

 

I can bring up that new vehicles have electrically applied parking brakes. How do they work in an emergency? Actually I would really like to know that, if I ever buy a car new enough to have them.🤔 But not for discussion here.....👍

Edited April 16 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)