32-60 king pin replacement advice

[32buick67]

Well, they are almost worn out, the king pins and bushings wiggle too much now that we have been driving the car quite a bit, and the death wobble at 40mph is consistent when the car is first warming, so its time to replace what is worn from the decades...

 

I am looking for any advice on how I should replace the worn kingpins and bushings.

I have new parts, but I don't have the reamers and drifts, so I am trying to determine if I buy reamers etc. and do the work in my home garage this winter, or if I should start planning to get the axle off and send it to a shop to press out bushings and ream them for the new pins.

 

Its too bad because at 55k+mi the car will drive insanely smooth and straight after I settle the mechanics after the first 5-10mi of death wobble antics.

When warmed and settled, I can let go of the wheel and the car just rolls straight ahead.

After things settle, I think this car could drive 1kmi smooth and straight, so crazy, I really do trust this car after about 2yrs of sorting.

 

My wife and I enjoy many relaxing evening drives for hours, but in the last 100mi, the first 5-10mi are cantankerous.

Toe, camber and caster are within spec, everything acts as it should for mechanical engineering performance, but the kingpin slop is extreme now and needs attention.

 

My plan is to prep for winter maintenance, so any advice is greatly appreciated on how to replace kingpins.

 

The kingpins are 0.875" OD, so I need a kingpin reamer for this diameter, and I can probably rig a drift for the old bronze bushings.

 

Here are some pics if what lies ahead for me...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[demco32]

you need a reamer and a press.

If there is some damage to the hole in the axle you need a milling machine and a lathe too to make special size bushings

 

[Bloo]

If the holes in the axles are OK, check the fit of the stationary part of the pins (important), if that checks out, the rest should have been done with a reamer back then.

 

After pressing the new bushings in the spindles, you can probably(?) take the spindles to a machine shop and get the bushings honed on a Sunnen hone to match the size of your pins. Or you could just have the machine shop press them in first. I have heard you can get a better job this way, using the tools with which a wristpin is fit, though of course it is traditional to just use a reamer so that will work too. A reamer for kingpins is special, and has a long guide pin to keep the bores straight and concentric.

 

In theory, the axle would stay in the car, and only the spindles should need special tools and professional help. You would have to assemble it in the car afterward with the bearings and shims to make a proper vertical fit. By the way, the pin to bushing fit probably needs to be considerably tighter than the machinist will think. You might even have to argue about it. It should be a little bit draggy and need to break in. Any slop is magnified greatly by the time you get out to the wheel. The difference between new and worn out is almost nothing.

 

All the above ASSUMES that the axle is 100% traditional, and doesn't have floating bushings or any such nonsense. I am not sure how Buick did that in 1932. Measure everything carefully to be sure you don't have a floating bushing kit, or an oversize kit, and that the axle holes are OK and have not been reamed for oversize pins, etc.

 

Tighter is better.

 

[demco32]

You need to press the new bushings in first and after that use a reamer to get the correct size for the king ping.

size of bushing will be smaller in diameter after press them in the axle hole.

King pin should be a bit tight.

Don't forget the grease  

[nat]

     The two races in the thrust bearings have slightly different inside diameters.  The small one, (with a shiny ground finish), should be at the top.

[32buick67]

Thanks all - based on what I am reading and researching, I am about 75/25 split against DIY.

Went to breakfast with my wife this morning on a nice fall early morning ride....35F, leaves turned, lots of fog, car drove like a dream, smooth and steady, the metal must like the cold air, no death wobble at all, drove straight, no vibration, pushed itself back to straight from turns, drove like a well-behaved Buick.

 

I think removing the axle and wheels/brakes and taking the setup to a shop will be the more correct approach.

25% of me says I can find a way to do the work on the car, but the realist in me says its not worth the risk to spring driving season if I get the job done and I find problems on the maiden drive 6mos from now.

I think I could probably tackle this as a multi-month winter project if I bought a reamer and such, but...I feel like the roadblocks I will run into would cause me end up at a shop anyway.

 

@Bloo I am pretty sure these are not floating bushings like those used by Ford.

 

@nat Thanks for the tip on the thrust bearing - I didn't notice top vs bottom by eye, so I measured and you are right!  There is 0.020 difference between the ID of the races.

 

@demco32 My hope is that the original bronze bushings have been consumed and the castings are ok so I can avoid oversized bushings...my gut is telling me this car spent 80% of its life on dirt roads getting beat up, then restored in early 2000s and sat, then mostly sat some more until 2021, and now that I am driving it a lot, I am discovering the things that were on the verge of failure for the last 20+yrs.  

 

Some Buick design details for those who might be interested, note the relevance of the ground line phantom line from kingpin angle/distance...tire diameters...reflecting on psi and original tire specs:

 

 

 

From 1938 Chevy manual:

 

[nat]

     If the kingpins are worn they need to be refreshed.

     That said, I've experienced the death wobble on vehicles with decent steering and suspensions and driven vehicles that were loose as a goose and all over the road but never did the dreaded wobble.

     Balancing wheels/tires can make a world of difference.  A loose drag link will cause the wobble.  

     I have an F350 that, (when it felt like it), would go into the most violent and frightening vehicular convulsions I've ever known.  Replacement of the steering damper cured it once and for all.

[demco32]

7 hours ago, 32buick67 said:

Thanks all - based on what I am reading and researching, I am about 75/25 split against DIY.

Went to breakfast with my wife this morning on a nice fall early morning ride....35F, leaves turned, lots of fog, car drove like a dream, smooth and steady, the metal must like the cold air, no death wobble at all, drove straight, no vibration, pushed itself back to straight from turns, drove like a well-behaved Buick.

 

I think removing the axle and wheels/brakes and taking the setup to a shop will be the more correct approach.

25% of me says I can find a way to do the work on the car, but the realist in me says its not worth the risk to spring driving season if I get the job done and I find problems on the maiden drive 6mos from now.

I think I could probably tackle this as a multi-month winter project if I bought a reamer and such, but...I feel like the roadblocks I will run into would cause me end up at a shop anyway.

 

@Bloo I am pretty sure these are not floating bushings like those used by Ford.

 

@nat Thanks for the tip on the thrust bearing - I didn't notice top vs bottom by eye, so I measured and you are right!  There is 0.020 difference between the ID of the races.

 

@demco32 My hope is that the original bronze bushings have been consumed and the castings are ok so I can avoid oversized bushings...my gut is telling me this car spent 80% of its life on dirt roads getting beat up, then restored in early 2000s and sat, then mostly sat some more until 2021, and now that I am driving it a lot, I am discovering the things that were on the verge of failure for the last 20+yrs.  

 

Some Buick design details for those who might be interested, note the relevance of the ground line phantom line from kingpin angle/distance...tire diameters...reflecting on psi and original tire specs:

 

 

 

From 1938 Chevy manual:

 

I just purchase my '32 Oldsmobile a few months ago.

It was supposes to be a good car in technical good condition beside the water pump that was not working and needed repair ( no problem for me )

There was some play in the front wheels and I find out the wheel bearings were bad and also the king pins had some slack.

Further investigation showed that the holes in the front axle were worn oval and that is not logical because the pins have to be fixed in the axle holes.

There are only 2 options to solve this problem.

Replace the axle with a new one but no longer available and a used one is difficult to find.

Or repair the worn out holes.

I milled out the holes to get perfect round holes in correct angle.

Than made bronze bushings that keep the king pin in fixed position.

 The advantage is that these bushings can always be replaced if there is another problem due to wear.

I don't know for the USA and the technical condition of antique cars and if there is a technical control but we have in Belgium a very tough technical control and cars must be in perfect condition to be allowed on the road.

If the technical condition of the cars has to be perfect by law or not is not important I believe for personal reassurance.

Any problem will affect all other parts of the car which will break down more quickly if not every thing is in good condition.

You can't build on bad foundation.

 

 

[Dave39MD]

I did this on my 31 and 29 Chevrolet's. I couldn't find a shop to do the spindles so I found the correct reamer on Ebay. My axles were fine and the job was not bad at all and satisfying. I do have a press.

 

Dave

[32buick67]

@Dave39MD  That is what I was thinking, that it would be a nice fun winter project, but I am concerned about messing something up.

 

Worse case I could try to do the work on the car in-situ, then if I hit a snag, I can remove the axle and take it to a shop.

I plan to remove the wheels/drums from the yoke whether it goes to a shop or not - planning a major teardown and cleanup and repaint, regardless whether a full DIY project.

 

Maybe I should look on ebay for an 0.875" kingpin reamer...

[Dave39MD]

Why would you take the axle off, are the king pin holes in the axle worn?

 

Dave

[32buick67]

Just kind of planning worse case - when I tilt the tire top-bottom, I can see the yoke rock on the axle, but I don't know if its a worn axle bore vs worn kingpin bushings.

 

I haven't yet taken anything apart, and I cannot think of a way while everything is still assembled to be able to check if the axle bore is worn vs bushing wear.

 

I am also not sure if both could be true - if the bushings wore enough, its possible the king pin started wearing the axle bore, which I really hope isn't the case!

[BuickTom87]

Where did you find the kingpins ? I guess I got to keep checking eBay . 

[Bloo]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:12 PM, 32buick67 said:

I haven't yet taken anything apart, and I cannot think of a way while everything is still assembled to be able to check if the axle bore is worn vs bushing wear.

You won't know until it is apart. All normal wear is in the bushings, and they do wear out fast compared to the rest of the chassis. Bad axle holes should never happen, but sometimes do. That falls more in the category of major repairs. Back then, it usually meant boring the holes oversize and using an oversize pin kit. Then any replacements have to be oversize, and you need to be able to ream the bushings oversize. It really isn't a good solution. I like @demco32's solution much better, although I might use something tougher than bronze.

[edinmass]

Death wobble can be caused by MANY different things. Very often people sort out the front end, and find it’s still there or worse…….

 

Proper alignment is critical to preventing death wobble, as is air pressure, steering box, and steering wheel attachment. 
 

Does Buick use a kick shackle in 1932? I would go there first.

 

PS- almost no one will probably align the car today……because they are not capable of doing it with the equipment they have on hand. 98 percent of the time it’s “Toe and go.” 
 

Bad springs and shocks need to be addressed.

Edited November 16, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[32buick67]

10 hours ago, BuickTom87 said:

Where did you find the kingpins ? I guess I got to keep checking eBay . 

Try this BOP site, and also maybe ask Bobs Automobilia (they are out of stock, but he might be able to put in an order).

 

https://www.bopparts.com/nos-nors.html

 

Ebay of course has random stuff which might work if the dims can be confirmed.

[32buick67]

54 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Death wobble can be caused by MANY different things. Very often people sort out the front end, and find it’s still there or worse…….

 

Proper alignment is critical to preventing death wobble, as is air pressure, steering box, and steering wheel attachment. 
 

Does Buick use a kick shackle in 1932? I would go there first.

 

PS- almost no one will probably align the cat today……because they are not capable of doing it with the equipment they have on hand. 98 percent of the time it’s “Toe and go.” 
 

Bad springs and shocks need to be addressed.

 

Agreed Ed, I will be going thru all front end elements and steering this winter.

Nothing is broken or damaged, I think I just wore out some things that I have been maintaining and keeping an eye on.

Car was rolling well until recent.

I check tread wear with a caliper to ensure things are rolling well, I know, I am over-meticulous, but I think tire wear is one of those things which can be helpful to tell a story.

Before each driving season I perform a full alignment and measurement check per specs with lasers and digital levels etc.

 

This year I knew the kingpins were loose but I decided to give it a go, and it looks like I took them as far as I could, RTF...

 

Yes to kick shackles, they were used by Buick through 1933.

 

I really do like the lightness of the steering in these Buicks - even from a dead stop they aren't too bad.

 

[32buick67]

I am thinking about starting a learning thread on the technical section about kingpins - lots of chatter strewn across the forum, but nothing consolidated to a single topic...it might be interesting to hear from folks about their challenges and experiences in a single thread.

 

And...who doesn't like photos and busted knuckles!

[demco32]

15 hours ago, Bloo said:

You won't know until it is apart. All normal wear is in the bushings, and they do wear out fast compared to the rest of the chassis. Bad axle holes should never happen, but sometimes do. That falls more in the category of major repairs. Back then, it usually meant boring the holes oversize and using an oversize pin kit. Then any replacements have to be oversize, and you need to be able to ream the bushings oversize. It really isn't a good solution. I like @demco32's solution much better, although I might use something tougher than bronze.

The bushings for the king pin set are broze.

I used bronze for the oversize hole in the axle because the pin is not rotation in that hole.

It is a tight fit.

 

[BuickTom87]

Just purchased a set of kingpins off eBay for my 32 90series . 
 

So with new wheel bearings seals , and new kingpins hopefully this will cure my wheel wobble. 

[BuickTom87]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:09 PM, edinmass said:

Death wobble can be caused by MANY different things. Very often people sort out the front end, and find it’s still there or worse…….

 

Proper alignment is critical to preventing death wobble, as is air pressure, steering box, and steering wheel attachment. 
 

Does Buick use a kick shackle in 1932? I would go there first.

 

PS- almost no one will probably align the car today……because they are not capable of doing it with the equipment they have on hand. 98 percent of the time it’s “Toe and go.” 
 

Bad springs and shocks need to be addressed.

There’s a mechanic by me that still does his alignments with a string and a ruler . He’s been doing it this way for 60 years .  He said growing up he used to work on these cars from the 30s and 40s .  So I’ll also give this a try . 

[edinmass]

And how does one check camber and castor? 95 percent of the time, you need to adjust castor to get rid of death wobble……..additional hint……..don’t set up the alignment as it called for in 193X, set it up for modern roads………a totally different set of numbers.

Edited November 17, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

If you are new here, pay heed to Ed. He really knows pre-war cars and makes his living correcting issues like this.

 

As to the king pins. Chances are you can find a NOS set with the bushings...or you could make them easily enough. The entire theory behind a king pin reamer is that it is a piloted with an extension on the end that projects through the other bushing and a tapered fitting that slides into the bushing opposite the one you are reaming. The two bushings have to be reamed in perfect alignment. Pilot reamers were a standard machinists tool so they can be found without any reference to cars. (Look for Critchley pilot reamers...or Cleveland Twist Drill) If you are not particularly experienced at this, it is very easy to ream the hole too large. Were I doing it, I would go through with the pilot reamer just a few thousandths after the bushings are pressed in. (Generally, bushings are slightly oversize on the OD and compress slightly when pressed in.) Then I would use a barrel lap to open the holes so that the pin slides in easily with no noticeable play. The beauty of this method is that it's practically impossible to take out too much material with a lap. It's slow but it will get you a superior job.

[edinmass]

Trying to align the car by a string is a waste of time. Your car has a torque tube. This is the best way today to align a pre war car. Also, unless you have done hundreds of alignments, the chances of it coming out correct are slim to none. 

[BuickTom87]

Yeah , my friend who does alignments on speciality cars told me to go buy this tool.  He will do it for me . Since he said he doesn’t feel as his machine will work well.  Since my 29 Buick needs one also and it has the wooden wheels 
 

He said it’s like 300 from like an auto zone right .  

[tcslr]

Looks like skirted fenders....  if possible, can you post a photo of the car?

 

Would you provide some description of the modern road numbers?  Thanks in advance.  ( for 1931 Buick, 1929 Chrysler, 1932 Chevrolet - if that matters)