1927 Stutz 5 Passenger Sedan

[kbeach]

We first became aware of this car in June of 2021, when it was listed for sale on E-bay in Los Angeles. We were on a car tour and by the time we responded the car had been sold and on its way to the Sacramento area. Then it was listed for sale again on craigslist and finally back on E-bay in May 2023. My son and grandson made contact with the owner and purchased it in July. For more information go to "Not Mine" Automobiles For Sale forum, then look for "1927 AA Sedan OHC straight 8" and "1927 Stutz AA 5 Passenger Sedan".

 

Making the ownership transfer in California

 

At its new home in Northwest Washington

 

What caused the previous owner to throw in the towel was the number of missing fasteners and small parts that are unique to Stutz or similar cars. Basically, if you were not the one that took it apart, have not worked on a Stutz or similar car or have an example to go by, it's very difficult to find missing parts if you don't know just what it is that you are looking for.

 

My main function on this project is to come up with the required patrs as needed. Other than that, I sat in my chair out of the way and watched two energetic mechanics do all the heavy lifting and hard work necessary to make this happen.

 

First order of business was to re-plumb the oil lines. For now, the oil rectifier and Myers chassis lubrication system have been bypassed. Added a correct oil line restictor to the return line from the cam shaft.

Hooked up a temporary gas supply using an outboard motor tank and proceded to start the engine. This was an easy start since it had been run briefly before.

Refurbished a Stewart Warner vacuum tank (this is the correct one for 1926 through 1928 Stutz). Added a "gascolator" glass bowl fuel filter so we can see what's coming out of the gas tank. I won't comment any more on this as there are many people on the forum with more knowledge and exerience that me. I will say that on all of our cars, if they came from the factory with a vacuum fuel system, we have kept it on, never using rubber hose or electoric pumps. this has to be one of the most dependable, trouble-free devices on all our cars.

 

Used engine vacuum to test the pump. Worked perfectly

 

We had put Marvel Mystery Oil in the tank, that is where the odd color of gas is coming from.

Edited August 19, 2023 by kbeach
Add missing word, correct it's to it. spelling (see edit history)

[kbeach]

Our main goal for now is to make it drivable and put some miles on it before bad weather sets in, then spend the winter months sorting out the problems and obtaining needed part so it can be a dependable driver next summer.

[wayne sheldon]

Nice to see this one here! I look forward to following this one being brought back.

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

I like it. Looks to be in good shape, but pics don’t always show the worst. I assume the belt line color will change at some point?  Mike

[kbeach]

Thanks Wayne and Mike for your comments. The plan is to change the belt line color but not sure what will match with the lower body color.

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

If it were me, I’d look at either some form of white so it stands out or a darker blue than the bottom so it blends in. Mike

[TAKerry]

I think this car was posted in the not mine for sale awhile back. Glad to see someone that wants to do it the justice it deserves has got ahold of it. Seems like you know what youre doing with it. Will be following along, good luck.

[kbeach]

@Mike "Hubbie" StearnsIt may be a lighter color like a off white or light gray. @TAKerry, you are correct, this was posted a couple of time in the not mine forum. From the pictures provided to us, we felt that we had most if not all the parts missing. So far, there have been no suprises.

[kbeach]

Next up is to install the clutch. This is an 11-inch Borg & Beck used by Stutz from 1926 through about 1931. Believe that some models of Pierce Arrow also used the same clutch. We knew from the beginning that the 3 dowel pins were missing. We had 2 but one looked to have been abused by vise grips so we made 2 new ones.

 

Looks big here but the shaft is only 5/16 in diameter.

 

 

 

Drawing of the flywheel and clutch assembly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clutch disk (not the one we used) see #23260 in yellow on drawing.

 

 

 

Thrust ring showing how the dowel pin fits. the 5/16 round shaft  goes into the flywheel. See #23261 in blue on the drawing. The dowel pin does not show in the drawing.

 

 

Back side of thrust ring. Note the 3 springs that push on the dowels when pressure is released allowing the thrust ring to back off of the disk.

A little hard to see but note the adjustment ramp outlined by the blue line.

 

 

 

Sample of what happens when the clutch is allowed to slip. Note the heat cracks and discoloration. The flywheel was in like condition. Not from this car.

 

 

 

Clutch cover assembly showing the throw out bearing pad.

 

 

 

Thrust side of clutch assembly showing the 3 fingers that make contact with the adjustment ramps. Turning the assembly clockwise increases the pressure or turning counter clockwise to decrease.

 

Also on our list of missing items are the 6 clutch cover clamps and bolts. See #20717 in red on the drawing.

 

Installing the clutch went easy without any problems until trying to bolt up the transmission. It just would not go the final 1/2 inch. Pulled everything back apart and found the problem. When the engine was assembled apparently the crank shaft to flywheel bolts were missing so someone came up with 6 Allen head cap bolts with a flat washer and nylon locking nut. Don't know how we missed this but now we have our first "gotcha". This requires draining the12 quarts of oil and dropping the pan and rear main cap.

 

 

Looking at the crankshaft rear main, wrong bolts and flywheel.

 

 

 

Made up bolt on the right next to a correct original one

 

Six correct bolts (see drawing, bolts are colored orange, no part number) were installed and secured with wire, not cotter keys.  inspection  of the clutch disk shows where the made-up bolts and their lock nuts were too long and jammed into the disk bending it. Replaced the destroyed disk with a good relined one and everything fit as it should. Transmission in and drive shaft installed.

 

Now we found "gotcha" number 2. After removing the oil pan, we found water in the oil.  Looks to be coming from cylinder number 4. Removal of the cam cover revealed that most of the head nuts were not much more than finger tight. Retorted all twice, replaced the oil pan and new oil then ran it up to temperature. Retorted one more time. No more water where it does not belong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

s

 

[TAKerry]

You are definitely on the 'next level' when it comes to restoration work. Again the BEST place for a car like this. I bet you guys are on your toes now and it may be awhile before the 'gotcha #3'! I had a very early motorcycle restored a number of years ago. Zero parts availability. The fellow that did the work had the factory drawings and was an amazing machinist. All missing and incorrect parts were made in house to spec. Looking at your posts reminds me of his work. This car will end up running better than new I am sure.

[TexRiv_63]

Following, looking forward to your progress.

[kbeach]

Thanks @TAKerry and @TexRiv_63. Drawings are a big help in assembling components correctly but I don't think I'm up to making many of the parts.

The car does not roll easily, we had to drag it every time it needed to be moved. We were thinking the brakes were locked up so that's next on the list of things to do. Jacked up the front end removed the grease caps, and another surprise, we have never seen a castle wheel nut so tight! Once the nut was backed off the wheel spins easily. Cleaned all the bearings and don't see any damage. Still working on the brakes so more later.

 

Did a little house keeping. Replaced the incorrect ammeter with the correct one.

 

Note the white faced ammeter.

 

Correct ammeter with black face. Temperature gauge has been sent out for repair.

 

Replaced the one incorrect slotted screw with a correct one. Slot does not match the others so will need to find one that's a better match.

 

It's nice to see no extra holes have been drilled in the wood dash panel.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by kbeach
spelling (see edit history)

[kbeach]

A little late with an update.

Brakes have been changed over from the hydrostatic (water) system to Lockheed hydraulic. 

 

Original hydrostatic brakes.  Fluid chamber (bladder or inner tube) is filled with water and kept under slight pressure. Brakes are adjusted by adding additional water and increasing pressure. To keep the system from freezing during the winter, a mixture of 50% water and 50% alcohol was used. The entire system is hermetically sealed and there are no moving joints to leak.

 

                      

 

Not seen in the picture are the two jack stands under the axle. 

Picture of the right front brake setup with the Lockheed backing plate, wheel cylinder, return spring and shoes. Rear retaining clip is under the shoe instead of clamping it properly like the front one. The flange on the spindles were too wide for the new backing plate, looks like a hammer and chisel were used to trim off the excess metal. Not sure how we will correct this, as we do not want someone looking at this mess and think this the type of work we would do. Options are to replace spindles,  weld up and grind smooth or, since this is going to be a driver and not so  much a show car, we may change over to 1928 brakes all around. They have  bigger drums which would give better braking.

Removed all four wheel cylinders plus the master and headed to the parts store. Front cylinders are from a Ford pickup. Rears are from 1939 - 1940 Dodge one ton truck. Master cylinder is from Mopar, not sure of year or make, just ordered by matching the numbers. Picked up the front cylinders after lunch, all others  were in within three days.

Flushed and refilled all fluids plus did an all around checkup. With good brakes its time to put some miles on it. The more it is run the better it does run. 

Seems to have plenty of power for the hills in our area but not much for top speed. Suspect it has 5:1 rear gear ratio. If so it will get changed to 4.75 or 4.5:1.

It is an easy and fun car to drive. 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by kbeach (see edit history)

[kbeach]

Have been putting some miles on the Stutz and, so far, no disappointments and the to do list is not very long. 

It's time to correct some of the items that were cobbled up in order to make it run. First up is to replumb the Myers chassis lubrication system. All the oil lines and most of the fitting were not included with the car so all lines will need to be made. We are not using new big box store fittings, so it's taking the time to find the correct ones the car would have left the factory with. 

With the enging running, push the plunger, which is on the firewall, under the hood on the passenger side. This diverts the engine oil from returning to the sump, to all eight of the spring reservoirs.

 

Sorry for the reflection in the photo.

Per the owners manual, this should be done every 1,500 miles at the time of engine oil change. The plunger should be held down long enough to flush out all the reservoirs as indicated by the tendency of the spring bolts to drip oil. 

In the above picture, yellow tape is the fitting for the return oil from the engine. Blue tape is for the line that goes to the oil rectifier/filter then back to the engine sump when the plunger is in its normal position. The red caps are on the tee that diverts oil to the right and left side of the chassis when the plunger is pushed.

Picture of how the spring reservoirs work. King pins also have reservoirs that need to be manually filled. Remainder of the chassis is lubricated by alemite grease fittings or grease cups.

 

Stutz changed over to the Bijur system for the 1929 model which does a more complete job of lubrication.

Edited September 13, 2023 by kbeach
added information. (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Neat! I like to see progress on cars like this.

[kbeach]

Thanks for your encouragement @wayne sheldon, We are behind on our updates. Will try to bring everything current this week.

[wayne sheldon]

Don't feel pressured, certainly not by me! However, I do like to encourage people to work on their antiques or almost anything else they appear to enjoy working on. Especially when the car is something I like in the brass through nickel eras, or one similar to something I or a good friend has had and worked on. J. C. drove his Safety Stutz a lot of places and always enjoyed talking about the places and events he took it to!

[kbeach]

Last week was one of those "life kept getting in the way" weeks that we all have. Not much progress and not many pictures. Did remove both water jacket covers, clean and reinstall with new gaskets. No water leaks so did a final flush and then filled with antifreeze, that part is ready for winter. Now we can start working on the oil leaks.

Made up the oil return line from the cam to Myers chassis lube valve and the Myers valve to the oil Rectifier/filter.

Sorted through fittings and found enough with good threads and sharp corners without vice grip marks to replace the missing ones.

Edited September 30, 2023 by kbeach (see edit history)

[kbeach]

One of the reasons I have taken to the earlier cars is finding how one make differs from another. Examining each car is like going on your own little treasure hunt. Discovering how each manufacturer and their engineers came up with what they thought was the best and most cost-effective solution for a problem. Each had their own idea of the best way to solve what ever the road block may have been. Some ideas failed early on and were quickly eliminated while others proved successful and variations were copied by other manufacturers. The same was true for gimmicks or clever ideas used to set their car apart from the competition. Beginning in 1926 and running into 1930, Stutz added an "oil rectifier" to the rear exhaust manifold. From their sales literature, the Triple-duty oil rectifier, which removes solid particles by filtration, and distills off fuel and water dilution by exhaust heat. Thus all causes of impaired lubricating efficacy are removed from the oil by a constant process of rectifying. This rectifier does not complicate the engine construction.  Distills were then piped to the carburetor air inlet.

Not sure how well this worked. By 1930 it was gone, could have been a cost cutting measure. With this gone Stutz went to the oil filter canister like Packard used.

Cloth filter on the left is more like burlap. Its job is to trap the big chunks. Rectifier in the center shows the effect of hot exhaust gases on early day aluminum. This one was taken off of a 1929 engine. The problem, as you can see, is that the alummium is eaten away from the inside where it can not be seen. It can also be seen where there is a small hole into the oil chamber. Now I am not an expert on such things, but it seems like oil being pumped into a hot exhaust manifold at 40 PSI is not a good thing. Probably best to grab your lunch and exit the vehicle. Rectifier on the right is ready to go on the car.

Olson's Gaskets makes a block off gasket with the exhaust ports not cut out. their ID is "S".

The same type of destruction is going on with the intake manifold. Olson's also makes an intake manifold gasket without the exhaust ports cut out. Another thing going on here is the condensation that collects in the bottom and, if not drained off, will cause the manifold to break if it freezes during the winter. If it breaks on the inside you will spend a lot of time figuring out why it is running poorly. You know, ran when parked ----.

Came up with some good luck. While looking for fittings we found a oil rectifier return line. 

The 180 degree bend at the top is one that I am not able to make. 

Made a new clamp that holds the 3/8" line to the exhaust manifold, rectifier to carburetor.

Finished off the remainning lines. ready to put it all together

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by kbeach (see edit history)

[alsancle]

A number of cars in the late 20s were equipped with the Skinner Oil Rectifier.   It is much larger than the one on the Stutz.  Here is a picture of the one on my Stearns Knight.

Edited September 30, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[kbeach]

Thanks @alsancle. I had figured that others may have use some kind of rectifier process but had never seen or heard of any.

Pictures are a big help. Yours looks like the bottom half is also made of alummium, but maybe the exhaust does not go through  it? 

[alsancle]

This gives a bit of an overview of how it works:

 

https://www.wokr.org/library/skinner_rectifier.pdf

[kbeach]

Still making progress. Have put about 100 miles on it just making short trips with nothing major showing up. Have been getting ready for winter so test runs will be weather dependent from now on. Rebuilt the "Watson Stabilator"s with new webbing and mounted them.

We are not sure how to address the paint that just keeps falling off. Taking this car appart to strip paint and doing it right is not an option in the near future.

Rewired the "ignition cable manifold" and remounted using correct spacers. Missing the ignition cable exhaust heat shield so will be making a new one. 

 

Most of the plumbing is done and working. From pictures we have it looks like the Myers system had not been connected since sometime in the 80's.

Ignition cable holder that goes on the crankcase front cover is missing and will put in place when we replace the plug wires. Fuel line to the carburetor needs to be redone then on to redoing the wiring. It had been correctly rewired at one point some years ago but some of it has been "updated" with plastic covered wire.

 

Found some wire conduit nuts for the headlights and a set of the wire connecting blocks from another pair of headlight.

Progress is slow but steady.

[kbeach]

We have been researching the background of the Stutz and to date this is what we have found.

Interesting that we received a box of AA pictures, notes and receipts from the estate of a friend that lived in Fresno, California about the same time as the Stutz was purchased. The first photo that got our attention was one of the dash panel showing the wrong ammeter, incorrect screw for the steering column bracket and the gear shift knob. For the most part the photos are not dated. Some do have a date printed on the back but that only indicates when the photo was printed not when the picture was taken.

Print date on back of photo is February 1978

 

Going further through the documentation we did find serial numbers confirm that this is indeed the same car. From the inspection stickers on the windshield, we figure it is safe to assume the car was being driven in North Carolina during 1949. Untill this discovery we had no Idea that our friend had ever owned this car.

Since I am not sure of the proper etiquette for including people's names without their permission, I will only do so for those that I feel are well known in the car collecting world. Earliest date for ownership is Auust 5, 1953 when W. A. C. Pettit Jr., of Lousia, Virginia purchased the Stutz. There is an envelope of black/white photos that I am guessing were taken at the time of this purchase. A couple of the pictures show the car with a tow bar fixed to the front end so I am also guessing that it was not a running car at that time.

No date on this black/white photo (could be faded color?) but it does show the drivers front fender that "requires some body work". Looks like the trophy collectors had already found it, as it is missing the radiator badge, RA cap and crank hole cover.

Next activity is the start of 1978 with a lot of printed photos and 35mm slides of the car plus many notes between the new buyer and seller. The numerous pages of hand written notes look just like mine after long phone conversations with a seller.

 

Notes are just like mine. Would make perfect sense to me but not to anyone else.

 

Samples from the notes; 1949 from N C. Dry store since. 1 door requires body work + 1 F F (front fender). Black & blue 3rd  color beltline - all orig.  5 wheels sb 6. Never been butchered /  orig used car.  Easy restoration (where have I heard that before). one more interesting note; 100  cars. 4 Dusy - 5 R's - 3 Stutz - DV32. Superior Dusy Fleming (?) Body. DV32 feel solid. Some of the cars from the Pettit collection?

 

Photo print dated February 1978. Looks all black with a gray belt line.  Could the gray looked more blue when up close to the car?  Can make out some of the original pin strip. From the pictures it looks as if all 4 fenders have served well as bumpers.

 

Photo print dated February 1978, Looks like the mice have been into the corner.

 

Bill of sale dated February 25, 1978 on letter head from Pettit Brothers Imperial, Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge - cars - trucks, Lousia, Virgina, and a Odometer mileage statement signed by Pettit showing 17,662. Next is a receipt from a transport company giving a delivery date to the new owner in California on March 31, 1978.

There is a file folder packed with receipts and cancelled checks for items purchased  and work done on the Stutz. A sample includes; A K Miller - $80.00 for gaskets dated September 8, 1978. Miscellaneous items form Paul Freehill. A hand written receipt from out friend in Port Angeles, Washington, Herb Hansen, for 2 wheels, 2 rims, 2 wheel rings sent by UPS to California, no date.

 

Photo print dated December 1981. Looks like new paint, tires and chrome. Location unknown but California area would be a safe bet.

 

Black/white photo with no date. Back of print is marked "Ryan M1". Looks to be taken in some kind of museum. A good guess would be somewhere around Fresno, California.

 

Next up is a bill of sale dated September 11, 1986 to a fellow in Missouri.

The 1987 inspection sticker for Missouri is still on the windshield.

At some point it made its way to Arizona. No clue as to who disassembled it or for what reason.

2021, sold to a fellow in the Sacramento, California area.

2023, sold to the Beach boys in Washington.

Current mileage 18,820.

 

I have had many vehicles during my life span, both cars and trucks, but never paid much attention to where they had been, done or who the owners were. It would have been fairly easy to track histories as a lot of prior owners were still around (purchased 2 from the original owners). Now that I have an interest in documenting our cars, I find that people who could have helped are no longer with us or their memories are not always accurate as to details and dates (I think that I fall into the latter catergory).

[wayne sheldon]

I enjoyed the updates.  That type of tinkering and sorting always seems to go slowly. However it is important in order to get a car truly enjoyable and drivable.

Some interesting history in the car's past eighty years.

Enjoy the journey!

[alsancle]

That is pretty cool.

[8E45E]

Probably the rarest items I see in the photos is that special Stutz 'safety glass' with the embedded wires intact.

 

I don't believe anyone is re-popping it exactly as Stutz did it.

 

Craig

[kbeach]

@8E45E you are correct, no one is making it that I know of. Glass on this car is all good with no chips or cracks, 12 pieces total. Not bad for being 96 years old.

 

 

 

[kbeach]

The goal from the start was to put this car back together and get as many miles on it as we could before the weather turned cold and wet. This was accomplished and we did get some good drives that included up hill, down hill and straight good runs.

Thanksgiving was a clear sunny day so out of the garage came the Stutz. It was a big hit with no shortage of drivers and passengers waiting for a turn to head down the road in a car that ran flawlessly all morning.

 

 

This car with its "to do list" is now on the back burner until we get closer to spring.

Thanks for checking up on our progress.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Edited December 28, 2023 by kbeach (see edit history)

[kbeach]

Took some time off from messing with old cars and did some much needed and over due repairs on shop equipment. About 1980 (I've lost track of dates) I purchased a 10-inch Logan Model 825 lathe for its value in scrap metal. This was a very used and very abused (the bed showed signs of having been used as a welding table). At this time some parts were still available through Powermatic and I was able to buy a new bull gear assembly (the original one was missing teeth and had been repaired before), but not much else was in stock or, if it was, was out of my price range.

 

Bull gear showing earlier repairs and missing teeth.

 

More problems, Bottom of compound base with broken nut and bent compound rest screw. How can this happen? I have no idea now where I found a replacement. I don't have pictures of other replaced parts as they became remade parts for other projects as needed.

Some shafts for the power train and cross feed were made to make it operational, Next came the half nuts of which the threads were long gone. New ones were fabricated using a commercial grade epoxy (looks like the same as J B Weld but was very expensive. Thought it was called something like Bellzoni but can't find it on the internet now). Well, after 40 some years of being one of the most used tools in the shop, the carriage feed stopped working (both longitudinal and cross feed), and the half nuts would not engage for threading. I have put up with this for a few years by manually running the carriage and holding a die in the tailstock for threading. I don't make anything very sophisticated on the lathe, mostly bushings, nuts and bolts and the like. My training is from a high school metal class in the early 50's taught by Mr. King. He quit at the end of the school year and went to work for Boeing. When I asked him why he responded with "better pay, better retirement and I don't have to put up with the teenager attitude!". I understand that now. Others that helped with my training were Ed Ritchie (deceased). Ed was self-taught and made, among other things, model steam and gas engines which all ran beautifully. Ed cut keyways in the new shafts I made as required. Friend Joe, an Engineer now retired, who is working on a Kissel, is always a good go to problem solver. And of course, Joe Puleo on this forum. I miss his posts and hope he is back soon.

Upon disassembly, I found the half nuts still had a little life in them, the problem was the half nut cam was worn to the point where it would not allow the half nuts to fully disengage thus not allowing the carriage lever to engage.

Half nuts were still working but for how much longer?

Also found the key inside the worm gear that runs on the lead screw was almost gone from wear. 

 

Worm gear showing what is left of the key that runs on the lead screw. This would have becomme the next failure.

Needed parts were found on e-bay. the total package was very heavy and did receive some damage to the parts by the time I recceived it. 

The first item checked on was the lead screw worm gear.

 

The key was in much better condition as were the half nuts and cam.

Now it was just cleaning and assembling the best parts.

 

Done, all ready to go, just waiting for the next project.

[r1lark]

Great project kbeach! I have a Logan model 200 that came from my family's Packard (and later Studebaker) dealership. 

I figure you are aware of this, but just in case you aren't.........many many parts are still available from Logan for their lathes, website is:  Logan Actuator Co

 

Scott Logan, who runs the company, is a great guy and knows a bunch about Logan lathes, and is always willing to share his knowledge. 

 

There is also a Logan Lathe discussion group here:   https://groups.io/g/Lathe-List

Edited June 30 by r1lark (see edit history)

[kbeach]

@r1larkI did not know about either of these. Thanks for the information, I will put it to good use.

[kbeach]

First test of the Logan repair was to make a new banjo bolt for the Alemite Gascolator. The bolt we were using is too short and only takes in the first couple of threads on the Stewart Warner vacuum tank. Since the top of these are very fragile the decision to replace the bolt asap with one that will take in the majority of the available threads. This is a very simple job and the 11/16 X 20 threads came out perfect.

 

 

 

The next project for the 27 will be to drop the gas tank, clean and seal it then rebuild the Grolan Gauge. This will be our third rebuild. The first one, done about 4, years ago is still working great.