1937 Running Board Mounts material info needed

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Hi All,

I am trying to get the 37 Roadmaster Phaeton restoration finished. I am looking to rebuild the running board mounts. I had the boards redone and now need to finish the mounts so they can be mounted.  Steel Rubber offers a rebuild service, but the price is simply to high for me to stomach right now. I have been looking at trying to rebuild them myself. As the boards are the antenna for the AM radio, they need to be insulated from the chassis. They also need so be slightly flexible and strong enough to hold up to being stepped on and all sorts of road grime.  This brings us to my question.   If I am going to recast the rubber in the mounts, what type of material would be used and at what hardness? Jumping into the internet search pool leaves more questions than answers. I am thinking something like a motor mount type material. Possibly a semi flexible polyurethane material. I have the original mounts, but they are very brittle as one would expect with 86 year old rubber.  If I have no luck with this, I will simply make some functional steel rigid mounts to get the car looking good until the radio is rebuilt and the antenna is needed.

   Thanks in advance for any input you have and/or any experiences and suggestions you can offer.

Robin

[1937McBuick]

With all due respect,  expensive is paying 1.35X the USD price with shipping, customs and duty fees and taxes on top of all of that importing into Canada.  I know,  that's my problem.   But it seems any product that is rubber vulcanized to metal is expensive.  

 

Sometimes it's easier to just pay the price(ransom).  

 

Best of luck.   I realize that didn't offer much help.

Edited May 6, 2023 by 1937McBuick (see edit history)

[37_Roadmaster_C]

@1937McBuick, I understand your pain. I also understand price for ease. However, almost $1000 US for a few vulcanized parts is just to much for me right now. I have all the tooling needed to make machined parts or to create moulds and make my own mounts. I have just never done any resin casting and am unsure of a likely suitable product. In any case, If I fail it will not up the parts price that much and I will have learned something else I can not do 😊.

[Wayne R]

Hello Robin, just a few things  that help you.

Way back in 1976-77, i was born and lived in New Zealand ,and restored a 39 Buick special.

car had no running boards when i purchased it, plus alot of rust and work to make it a  show winner

which it did  first in class 1988 International  vintage car show in  NZ.

I made my own  running boards out of solid  wood , actually  laminated  2 pieces  together to give it extra strength,

and shaped them from a friends 38 Buick.

Then i purchased  rubber  matt material from  a hardware shop,--if you go some time to home depo in your area,

you will see what i mean, there is alot more variety with rubber matting today than what i had, you  will find something very similar.

Job includes--sealing the wood with a  suitable seller, then contact cement glue to  rubber to the sealed wood. plus fasteners hidden  at inside edge,

and under the chrome edging i found at a wreakers yard ,for memory a older 60s chrysler valiant.

The owner i sold that car still has it and  running boards are the same as when i sold it, and its not a difficult  job to do.

i understand that it is not authentic, but i could not find any available in NZ, and i never ever told any body that they were wood.

Sorry i can not find a close up photo of running boards ,because no digital cameras those days.

[1937McBuick]

Are yours different than the ones in the picture I attached?

 

$1000 for running board insulators is expensive no matter what they are.

Now I understand why your willing to attempt fixing them yourself.

[1937McBuick]

If those in the picture I posted are indeed them,  how many pair are needed?

My Ghetto(40) Series Coupe never came with a radio so the running boards were bolted metal to metal(board on mounting bracket and mounting bracket to frame).

 

Steele says those antenna mount insulators are to be used in conjunction with their running board antenna mounting pad.

 

I can see how this can very quickly escalate to very expensive.

 

You've got nothing to lose by trying yourself.  Best of luck.

[1937McBuick]

How about talking to a tire vulcanzing service company and ask if they have a compound that would be suitable for you to use.

[MCHinson]

At $101.19 a pair, it is just a little over $400 for what you would need since you need 4 pairs per car. Can you post a photo of what your existing ones look like? My radio works fine. I just looked at my running board mounts and the rubber has certainly seen better days. I don't want to disassemble mine to find out, but I am trying to understand exactly how they insulate the running boards. It seems to me that the running board bolts would still provide continuity between the running boards and the running board brackets which are attached to the chassis. 

 

If the rubber on your mounts is bascally intact and you want to make them look better, I would probably try painting them with some black flex seal material.  

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Hi All,

What was pictured is only half of the mounting assembly. There is another part that forms the second half. There are a total of 16 pieces plus the bolts, nuts and washers. The running boards themselves have slots that accept carriage bolts that the upper piece bolts to. the lower piece bolts to the board support that is bolted to the chassis. Then the two  board mount pieces are bolted together to form a solid mount. within the mount pieces is a nut assembly that is within the rubber casting. This provides the insulation from the chassis.  Just for the math, there are 4 complete mounts per running board and the pieces to make one complete mount are just shy of $125.00.

[MCHinson]

I still don't quite understand the pieces that make up the complete mount assembly. Can you post photos of the various parts that make up the mount? From the Steele site, it would appear that you only need 4 pairs of the 50-0280-21 and 8 of the 50-0305-21.  Is there some other part that I am not seeing?   

[1937McBuick]

The picture is from Steele's site.

 

I posted it so people wouldn't have to search it themselves.

 

50-0305-21.... 8 pieces @ about $36 each

50-0280-21..... 4 pair @ about $101 per pair

 

....has him near $700 without taxes and shipping and hardware and incidentals.

 

I don't know if there's other pieces involved.   Its adding up!

[37_Roadmaster_C]

I will dig out the original parts that were removed when I sent the boards out to be recovered. Once I get the parts out and all pieces separated I will post pictures both assembled and individual. I should be able to do this tomorrow. Just to answer some of the questions, there are 8 complete mounts, 4 per board. This raises the cost even when parts are $35 each.  Give me a day so I can make sure of everything am saying. Matt has me questioning what I am saying.

[1937McBuick]

Without ever seeing them actually on the car,  it looks to me like the back side of the piece with three holes has a square recess in the back for that square red piece to fit into then the round part of the red piece with the threated stud protrudes out to bolt onto the running board mounting bracket.   I'm assuming it's this point that provides the insulation from the rest of the car?   Where does the antenna wire(s) attach?

[37_Roadmaster_C]

My car had an Oldsmobile radio grafted into it with a cowl side mounted antenna. My plan is to rebuild a 37 Buick radio I got from Dave Tachney and use the factory running board antennas. I have not seen the factory install, but the factory antenna information says there is a cable from the radio to one running board and a crossover cable connecting to the other running board. There are cable boots also available from Steel Rubber, but until I get the boards right and the radio rebuilt the rest in WAY down the list of details I need to finish.

[MCHinson]

I can probably help you with some photos of the original installation. From memory, the antenna lead wire attaches to the front of the left running board. The crossover wire attaches to the rear of the left running board and goes over to attach to the rear of the right running board. The running board metal acts as the antenna. The mounts are to insulate the running board metal from the chassis metal. With them assembled, it is impossible to see the "red" piece. 

 

If you want to have a radio restored, contact Pete DiPasquale. He is a member of the 36-38 Buick Club and a radio restorer. I will send you his contact information. Now would be a great time to join the 36-38 Buick Club. He gives discounts to fellow club members. His cost to restore a 1937 Buick Radio was much less than anybody else that I am aware of and he did a great job.

 

 

[bobj49f2]

I rebuilt the motor mounts on my '37 Special using a pourable elastomer.  I would use the same material to do running board mounts.  

 

http://www.fatfenderedtrucks.com/motor_mount_rebuild.html

 

I like doing as much as possible myself.  Currently I am working on making my own running board covers using rubber mats and my CNC router.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by bobj49f2 (see edit history)

[37_Roadmaster_C]

4 minutes ago, bobj49f2 said:

I rebuilt the motor mounts on my '37 Special using a pourable elastomer.  I would use the same material to do running board mounts.  

 

http://www.fatfenderedtrucks.com/motor_mount_rebuild.html

 

 

 

@bobj49f2, Thank You Very Much!!!  This is the information I was looking for. I will keep planning and move forward.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

I have dug out the mounts and am in the process of getting pictures.  I can firm up a few things. The parts pictured above are correct. It takes one of each to make a complete mount. Each running board requires 4 mounts so 8 total for the car. With that said, at current Steel Rubber pricing the total cost for parts without shipping and hardware would be  404.76 for the shells and 286.32 for the mount pads for a total of 691.08 for all. My estimate was a little high, but it is still a chunk of change for an antenna.  Either I or @Bloo will post pictures of the mounts later this evening.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Update, pictures soon. Life interfered today. Hopefully tomorrow. I have the mounts completely disassembled so pictures will be detailed. Stay tuned :).

[1937McBuick]

Me thinks Bloo is a good guy to have in your corner.

 

Lots of very helpful people out there.

Glad these forums exist to bring people together.

[MCHinson]

While we wait for those photos, I will share some.

 

If needed, I can probably get the car on a friend's lift and get better photos but here are some photos to show how the original radio wiring appears on my 1937 Model 80C. The first photo shows the antenna lead coming down from the driver's side of the dash and towards the left front running board mounts which are also visible in the phots. The second photo, taken from behind the left front running board mounts, shows where the antenna lead is connected to the left running board. 

[MCHinson]

The next photo shows the rear of the left side running board where the crossover wire attaches to the left running board. 

[MCHinson]

The next photo shows the crossover wire attachment to the rear of the right running board. The last photo shows the right front running board mounts, which do not have any wiring. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Here are the pictures from @37_Roadmaster_C :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Thanks @BLOO for posting the pictures.  Now for the details...

As you can see from @MCHinson pictures, the mounts attach to the bottom of the running boards with 1/4 carriage bolts slid into keyhole slots. As soon as I dig out the remolded boards I will post pictures of them also. Now for the mount details.  There are 8 total mounts consisting of 2 parts. The first part is a dark red solid Bakelite like material.  The first picture shows 2 mounts disassembled. One is broken as it was when removed from the car. It clearly shows the stud with a large steel backing plate totally enclosed in the Bakelite casting. The second one is how they should be and as the pictures from Steel rubber show. Most of mine are chipped at the top, one is broken at the base and one has a twisted off stud. I could probably salvage 4 if I had to.  The second part of the assembly is a steel saddle cage that has a fairly hard black rubber vulcanized into it. This part holds the first part securely in place and bolts flat up to the running board steel. Between the Bakelite and the rubber there is NO electrical connection. This is what isolated the running board steel from the chassis and therefore allows those steel boards, on each side of the car, to act as AM radio antennas. Matts pictures, 2 and 3 from the top, show the wires attaching the running boards to the radio and each other respectively.  As you can see from all of the above pictures there are several things that need consideration. First is the insulating properties of the materials at radio frequencies. Not all rubber and plastic is acceptable for this. Second is strength. These parts have to withstand someone stepping on the boards and any abuse from vibration and/or other strains a car may encounter. Lastly and somewhat associated with strength, would be a slight amount of flex to reduce the strain on the solid mounting parts as people step on the edge of the running board.

   I hope this helps everyone understand the design details of these parts. I will update this post as things progress. Thanks also to everyone that has added to this thread with help, questions and ideas!!!

[1937McBuick]

The pieces with rubber vulcanized to them are bigger than I imagined.

(I'm not trying to justify their cost)

 

But in reality they would be comparable to the plain steel brackets that mount the boards to the brackets when you're not relying on the running boards to serve as antennas.

[MCHinson]

Mine are obviously original on a 58,000 mile survivor Model 80C. Despite the way they look, they seem to be as solid as they were on day one. Yours look a bit worse than mine and obviously have some broken pieces that would be best to replace. If I was restoring the car, I would probably bite the bullet and buy what you need from Steele Rubber. It is probably possible to replace only the broken studs/red sections and use about any type of rubber to cosmetically repair the outer brackets if they still hold everything together securely in their current condition. You would likely never have a problem with them. Buick did not use the running boards as antennas too many years after 1937. Perhaps it is because they are often said to not be that good of an antenna, or maybe it is just that Buick was phasing out traditional running boards. I typically use a small AM transmitter to transmit appropriate period music from an ipod to my original 1937 Buick Radio. The running boards seem to be fine as an antenna for me but I don't have any way to compare or contrast them to a mast style antenna.  

[37_Roadmaster_C]

4 hours ago, MCHinson said:

Mine are obviously original on a 58,000 mile survivor Model 80C. Despite the way they look, they seem to be as solid as they were on day one. Yours look a bit worse than mine and obviously have some broken pieces that would be best to replace. If I was restoring the car, I would probably bite the bullet and buy what you need from Steele Rubber. It is probably possible to replace only the broken studs/red sections and use about any type of rubber to cosmetically repair the outer brackets if they still hold everything together securely in their current condition. You would likely never have a problem with them. Buick did not use the running boards as antennas too many years after 1937. Perhaps it is because they are often said to not be that good of an antenna, or maybe it is just that Buick was phasing out traditional running boards. I typically use a small AM transmitter to transmit appropriate period music from an ipod to my original 1937 Buick Radio. The running boards seem to be fine as an antenna for me but I don't have any way to compare or contrast them to a mast style antenna

 

This is exactly what I am planning to do also. This is why minimizing cost is high on my list right now. The car is not 100% stock, so being that picky makes no sense.  The car was my fathers and we were restoring it as a driver his way before he passed a year and a half ago. Some minor things are not exactly right, such as the exterior color, leather color, carpet (yes carpet, no rubber mats), etc.  I have a simple idea to mount the boards until I get the original mounts either replaced or rebuilt.  I am a tinkerer and a hobbyist so doing this myself seems fun and educational.

  In any case, I will keep you posted as I make progress.

 

Also, @MCHinson,  Matt, Could you provide the name and model of the little transmitter you use for broadcasting music to the stock radio.  Bloo and I were both planning to build a transmitter like you have, but the design we have is just to prone to interference to be useful.  Thanks!!

Edited May 10, 2023 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I appreciate this topic, as I have to restore the radio for my '38 and was wondering just how the running board antenna was wired.

[MCHinson]

This is the one that I have. They sell it as either an assembled product or a kit so you can build it yourself. I actually have one of each but since Radio Shack is not around anymore, I could not find a good project box to contain the build it yourself kit so I prefer the assembled one and keep the one I built as a backup. 

 

https://www.retroradioshop.com/products/am-transmitter-and-bluetooth-adapter-for-retro-vintage-or-antique-radios-1

[37_Roadmaster_C]

@MCHinson, Matt, thank you for the link to the transmitter. Unfortunately, this is the same design that @Bloo and I have. The problem, for us, is that it only transmits at 1000 Khz. In our area there is a Seattle station on 1000 Khz that interferes with these transmitters. We have searched for other oscillator modules (the silver can) on another frequency in the AM band and have struck out. Other options are possible, for frequency creation, but the cost multiplies a lot. This is ONLY an issue for those of us with a high power AM station on 1000 Khz within a couple hundred miles.   We loose 🤬. If we find an answer, we will let the forum know as well as the vendor. It would only need that one part changes, so it would be simple for the vendor to do at the time of order, IF the part were available at low cost in quantities of less than 100000 pieces....

Just to explain why this frequency is used by this device...  The oscillator module used is actually for microprocessor chips. It is common and VERY low cost in small quantities. Less than $5.00 for one. Unfortunately it is the only one commonly used within the AM band frequency range.

Enough blabbering....

[39BuickEight]

I cut my rubber “insulators” from a used one of these.  Just an idea if you are going to make your own replacement for the vulcanized parts.

I also used the same for my body mounts.  

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)