Help ID unknown car at 1967 Vintage Car Rally-06

[kcmadr]

Need help with identifying this vehicle please. Again, it looks very Model T-ish, but I'm just completely devoid of knowledge on these vehicles.

Date of photo : 1967

Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

Year : ?

Make : ?

Model & trim : ?

[keiser31]

Yes, early Model T Ford.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Brass with the formed cowl,I believe makes it a 15

[wayne sheldon]

A "supposedly" 1915 model T Ford runabout. Whether it is a real one or not would require close inspection of many details since so very many later Fords were back-altered to pass as earlier models. Since the windshield hinges appear to be 1917 or later? The car may likely be not genuine.

[kcmadr]

Is there some place I can ask this which has some Model T expert eyes that can help?

[viv w]

Try contacting the early ford club of south africa thru their website. It is quite possible that this car is still in SA.

[Bloo]

55 minutes ago, kcmadr said:

Is there some place I can ask this which has some Model T expert eyes that can help?

The MTFCA forum has a bunch of people who know the smallest details, but they might not all agree with each other. You already have @wayne sheldon in this thread and in my opinion he is one of the most informed.

 

https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/

 

In my layman's opinion, 1915-ish is as close as you will ever get. It is possible to build a model T from parts scavenged here and there. Not all of the parts fit together if the years are too disparate, but most of them do. It was a cheap and common way for a young person getting into the hobby to get a first antique car.

 

Model T's with the brass radiator are more desirable due to the "brass era" look. They are also worth more money, everything else being equal. It was widely believed (disputed today) that "brass" T production made a hard stop at the end of 1915. When I was growing up I read in a Floyd Clymer book, probably published in the 1950s or 60s, that "In 1915, Henry Ford built 3 million Model T's. Only twice that many are still registered". Yes, its a joke, but he was only sort of joking. There were and are many 1915 T's rolling around built with a large number of later parts.

 

 

[41 Su8]

Brass radiator Fords were last built in 1916.  The '16's were different than the '15's as the '16's did not have brass rims on the side lights.  The changeover to black radiators was gradual  until the brass radiators were used up.                 John

[viv w]

This Model T Ford was entered in the 1965 Shell Rhodesia vintage motor rally as a 1915 runabout by E Kuschke from Pretoria. The entry stated that the car was found in the Premier mine district in South Africa and it had taken three years to rebuild the car. The 1965 Shell rally was its first outing.

 The Kuschke family are still active members with their Model T cars in South Africa.

 Looking at the pictures it would appear that the car has later wheels with demountable rims, I stand to be corrected.

[1912Staver]

Yes, later rims. A very sensible change for a car that is going to get a reasonable amount of use.  { In my opinion. } They would look out of place on a say 1910  "show queen ", but the later brass rad cars are reasonably common. So why not set them up for using.

[kcmadr]

I have settled on tagging this as a 1915 Ford Model T Brass Radiator.

[wayne sheldon]

7 hours ago, kcmadr said:

I have settled on tagging this as a 1915 Ford Model T Brass Radiator.

 

 

Sounds reasonable! The clarity and angle of the photo just doesn't give enough detail to take it much further. The wheels are later 1919 or likely even later demountable rim wheels. However, even back in the 1920s, many people switched to the more convenient demountable rim wheels on older Fords. And a lot of restorers (way more than half I think!) back in the 1950s and 1960s used the later wheels on earlier brass model Ts. So the wheels generally do not actually indicate the year of a model T.

 

A funny thing about model T Fords is that in the 1950s and 1960s, most of what was "known" about model Ts was mostly from people's faulty memories! The truth is, that a lot of what people were sure about in those days was flat out WRONG! Serious historic research into the model Ts began in the late 1960s, and little by little the factual details have largely been sorted out. 

The majority of older restorations of model Ts usually have a lot of mistakes in parts used on the car. Only an up close examination can really determine just how right or wrong a car's restoration may have been.

This particular runabout presents itself as a 1915, and short of a close examination should be referred to as such.

Certainly a nice looking car! It looks a lot like mine! Only mine isn't nearly as nice. However, I still like mine!