New Wood For The Barrelback

[NewOldWood]

This was a complete car so I have pretty good pattern wood to work with. I've done a couple of these in the past so don't expect too many surprises.

[edinmass]

Not a job for the faint of heart! Or for those of a sound mind…………takes a true craftsman to put that machine back together. Would love to see photos in progress if you are able. And three thumbs up to the owner for taking on the project……….👍👍👍

[Tom Boehm]

I assume you finished the boat? I know of at least three you have completed while I am still plugging away at the doors on mine. 

[NewOldWood]

23 hours ago, edinmass said:

Not a job for the faint of heart! Or for those of a sound mind…………takes a true craftsman to put that machine back together. Would love to see photos in progress if you are able. And three thumbs up to the owner for taking on the project……….👍👍👍

As you probably know, T&C wagons were 41 and 42 only with similar but different wood. I've built one of each, the 41 with poor quality/incomplete wood, and the 42 from the 41 wood. That was the one that had me questioning my sanity. Not sure that question was ever answered...... I'll be posting updates once a month or so, stop back in once in a while and have a look!!

[NewOldWood]

23 hours ago, Tom Boehm said:

I assume you finished the boat? I know of at least three you have completed while I am still plugging away at the doors on mine. 

The boat is up near Birmingham getting the finish sprayed on. Wont have much other than assembly once I get it back. There will be updates.

 

You're still plugging away, and that's what counts. You'll get it done one day, and all things considered I don't think your rate of progress is anything to be ashamed of. Your approach seems to be well thought out and in my opinion the workmanship is better than what I've seen come out of some professional shops. I would like to see it when it's done, I'm sure it will be exceptional!

[Tom Boehm]

A sincere thank you for the complement from a pro. 

[Shootey]

The metal structure for the Town and Country seems flimsy. I assume the wood provides the bulk of the strength. 

[Tom Boehm]

I'm sure "NewOldWood" will comment with first hand knowledge. But, there is a story in the latest issue of the Woodie Times about the differences in construction in the Ford Sportsman and the post war Chrysler Town and Country. The Ford had a metal structure under the wood and the Chrysler was all wood, like we see in this '41/'42. 

[NewOldWood]

7 hours ago, Shootey said:

The metal structure for the Town and Country seems flimsy. I assume the wood provides the bulk of the strength. 

The metal is just temporary to hold the roof up while the paint work was done. The roof will be supported by the B pillars and quarter panels, which are all wood.

[NewOldWood]

Had a little issue with alignment and had to reshim the cowel to get the roof to where it needed to be. I used the original wood to get things lined up, that's why the passenger front door is on the car. With that out of the way, I got the door headers, B pillars and sills done, and am working my way around the drivers rear fender. There are five pieces of wood finger jointed together to make the finished piece, which will be the bottom piece of the quarter panel.

[NewOldWood]

[trimacar]

Wow, beautiful workmanship.  I agree that the faint of heart would look at the shell as pictured and quickly exit the building.

 

Getting the curves correct, and some compound ones at that, is quite the feat.

 

I have a woodworking friend at a well known restoration shop, and he’s done numerous woodies.

 

I was working on a 1934 Pierce-Arrow sedan.  It had curtains on the rear quarter windows, and they were hidden on the sides behind the headliner.  The wood piece which accomplished this was about two feet long, curved to the outside of the body, curved to the top of the body, and tapered in a few directions.  The side of the headliner tacked to the back of this piece, then one had to wiggle a couple of screws in on each end before attaching rest of headliner.

 

My friend made new ones for me, and told me even after working on those woodies, it was the most complicated wood shape he’d ever made!

[NewOldWood]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:06 AM, trimacar said:

 

 

My friend made new ones for me, and told me even after working on those woodies, it was the most complicated wood shape he’d ever made!

And if the part gets noticed at all it probably never gets a second look. People tend to be awe struck by simple things while the truly difficult work tends to get burried deep enough in the car as to go unnoticed.

[NewOldWood]

Working my way around the fender and along the roof line. There are five pieces of wood that are finger jointed together to get around the fender and three along the roof line. None of the pieces have anything straight or square about them, lots of compound curves and angles. Getting the shape of a piece correct is just the first step, the finger joint then has to be cut at the right orientation such that it lines up with the adjoining pieces. Shaping these parts is time consuming, and the more time you get into making a piece the more costly a mistake becomes. There's no fixing an incorrectly cut finger joint, you throw the piece out and start over. Something that I like to do that was not done at the factory is to use a single board to make continuous parts such as these. I like to match grain and color as closely as I can, as opposed to randomely selected wood. This of course goes out the window if I cut a piece wrong and have to start over. Sometimes slower really is faster.

[Tom Boehm]

"The more time you get into a piece the more costly a mistake becomes" is very true. That "measure twice cut once" adage comes into play here. I have had the router slip on the last step of a piece. I have also lost my concentration and routered in the wrong place on the last step of a piece. 

 

Is that another Town and Country in the background?

[NewOldWood]

A left instead of a right...etc,etc. There must be an infinite number of ways to screw up because I'm still finding new ones!

 

There is a thread on here from a while ago about veneering a T&C trunk panel, that's the car.

[blind pew]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:01 AM, Tom Boehm said:

"The more time you get into a piece the more costly a mistake becomes" is very true. That "measure twice cut once" adage comes into play here. I have had the router slip on the last step of a piece. I have also lost my concentration and routered in the wrong place on the last step of a piece. 

 

Is that another Town and Country in the background?

That Town and Country is one of my woodies. Dave was kind enough to take on re-veneering the trunk area. He did so for a VERY GOOD PRICE. What Dave charged me was less than what I expected. I like to do the framing and plywood work myself (even though I suck at it compared to a professional) but am completely unable to do any veneering. The car will be back in a few weeks, but the photos look amazing. 

 

Dave was VERY pleasant to work with and completed my project must faster than I had anticipated. I would reccommend him to anyone needing veneering work done (I would assume that his wood framing is just as good). 

[46 woodie]

How right you are about making a mistake with wood. On a steel car you can always weld up a hole and Bondo over it, with wood it's almost impossible to hide a mistake. One reason I purchased my wood from the Klein Family Workshop (R.I.P.), was the fact that all the structural wood came with pre-drilled holes where all the metal bracket's attached. It made the assembly of my '46 Ford Station Wagon wood so easy. Over the years I have seen several "Woodies" with "plugged" holes that were drilled in the wrong place. They always seem to stand out.

[NewOldWood]

Drivers side quarter panel frame is done, still have the panel and inside trim but those are for later. Passenger side will be the same routine except that the original piece is missing the back section so will have to wing it there.

[NewOldWood]

Spent all of May and then some finishing the boat, but it's gone so I'm back to the car. Both quarter panels are done which means the roof is now in a fixed and permanent position. Next is to start filling in the holes. I'll probably start with the front doors and work my way back.

[NewOldWood]

[Tom Boehm]

I just cannot imagine how you make the three dimensional curves. 

[46 woodie]

Once again, beautiful work. What wood do you plan on using for the panels?

[NewOldWood]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:18 AM, 46 woodie said:

Once again, beautiful work. What wood do you plan on using for the panels?

Sapele is what I've used on cars for this guy in the past and he seems to like it, so that's probably what this car will get.

[46 woodie]

Sapele is what I used on my '46 Ford Station Wagon. Once the varnish hit's that Sapele it just "pops". Good choice!

[dcaddick]

Absolutely amazing work. I have been struggling for 10 years building my 49 Olds

[NewOldWood]

I decided to build the rear armrests before starting on the doors. Those are done, and the drivers front doot is done as far as I want to go untill I get the latch hardware for it. The passenger front door is almost to the same point.

[Tom Boehm]

I'm fretting over the doors on my Lasalle but they look easy compared to these. 

[NewOldWood]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:30 AM, Tom Boehm said:

I'm fretting over the doors on my Lasalle but they look easy compared to these. 

Don't fret too much, I can't see why the doors wouldn't turn out just as nice as the rest of the car.

[NewOldWood]

The four front door frames are done for now. Still rough around the edges but wont be able to set the gaps till I have all the latches and dovetails. The tailgate doors should keep me going for a day or two.

[NewOldWood]

[kar3516]

This is the most amazing wood project I’ve seen.  Not a single straight line anywhere in the wood; nothing but compound curves in three planes.  Amazing workmanship!

[Tom Boehm]

I don't see how the pros do it. I am worried when I assemble and glue up my doors, if any parts the joints are cut to a slightly wrong angle, the door won't fit perfectly like I want it to. When making the final product in ash, I can't whittle and glue pieces on to make it fit like I did with the pine mock ups. I thought of doing a pre-glue assembly with screws for a trial fit but that would leave unsightly holes where I don't want them. 

 

As usual, I really like it when you post these in progress photos.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)

[Tom Boehm]

Also lately I have been having difficulty finding thick ash necessary for my doors. I had enough but I did a final planing on a piece selected for my doors and I found some bug damage I could not work around. I had to replace the piece. I could get 2'' thick or 8/4 but not 2  1/2" thick that I need. I think I will cut the bad part off and laminate a piece on to make 2 1/2" thickness. I had to do that with some other pieces that were slightly too small. I carefully plan where to put the seam so the glue line is hidden. 

[NewOldWood]

The door frames are fit and glued in place, I try to leave a little extra wood around the edges and finish off the gaps after all the latching hardware is installed. Applying pressure to the joints while the glue dries requires a little creativity. One of the ways I do it is to glue some temporary clamping blocks around the joint. This is a finger joint in what will be the upper piece of one of the tailgate doors, but the principle is the same.

 

Have you tried Johnsons lumber? they show Ash up to 16/4 on their website, maybe not in stock?

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, NewOldWood said:

This is a finger joint in what will be the upper piece of one of the tailgate doors, but the principle is the same.

I'd love to hear more about your finger joint cutter. I've not seen cutters available anywhere near that deep.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[NewOldWood]

The finger joint cutters have to be custom made. I can't remember who made these for me, it's been too many years. They are about 6" diameter, 1-1/4 bore. I use them on a 5hp shaper.

[blind pew]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:33 AM, kar3516 said:

This is the most amazing wood project I’ve seen.  Not a single straight line anywhere in the wood; nothing but compound curves in three planes.  Amazing workmanship!

I agree- This workmanship is better than original. My '41 International I'm doing has essentially no finger joints at all (that's the way it was made and I have all the original exterior and interior wood, all except for two smaller pieces were fine with no rot). I'm thinking about adding some additional ash pieces on the interior around the rear interior fenders with finger joints just for fun, as they look cool.

 

Lovely work!

[NewOldWood]

Coming along on the tailgate doors. This will be the end of the major fabrication. Nowhere near done yet, panels, trim, hardware, and final fitting will keep me busy for a while yet.

[46 woodie]

N.O.W., I have always fantasized about taking a '46-'48 Ford two door sedan and replacing everything from the roofline down with wood, similar to the Barrelback you are working on. What got the idea started was seeing a set of four, '46-'48 Woodie doors at HERSHEY and possibly using them during the build. Now that I see what you are doing it makes me realize that I must be out of my mind. I have been following all your builds and can't wait for the next installment of pictures.