More numbers

[MCELLIOTT1957]

I see a run of numbers on outside firewall passenger side. Starts with a "T" which may indicate that it is a touring car, but trying to find out what other numbers are. The complete number is T107374. Any help to decode this run of numbers would be interesting. Thank you

[Mark Gregush]

Unlike modern VIN numbers, there is nothing to decode, it is just a sequence number. I think I am correct in saying that the all-steel bodies were made by Budd, so I pretty sure that number is their inhouse tracking number. Even if the Budd part is incorrect, that still would be a tracking number for how many bodies were made. While I have only been involved with early DB's for a while, been involved with Ford Model Ts and As for a long time, I am not aware of anyone that has compiled a list of those numbers. 

[jari12]

I agree with Mark.  I am no expert and have learned a lot from the other members of this forum.  I asked the same question at one point and received an answer similar to what Mark said.  It is just the body number stamped by Budd when the body was built.  I would agree that the "T" probably stands for Touring.  My cowl has an "R"  at the beginning of the body number and my car was a Roadster before it was cut up at some point in it's past.

[nearchoclatetown]

I am not so sure the body numbers were stamped by Budd. My '18 sedan has a S number and those bodies were built by DB. But the statement of T for touring and R for roadster is correct. It simply shows the total number of that body style at that time. The club is not sure when this started or if it included cars like Limos or taxis. I think it was done to add confusion 100 years later.

[gossp]

On the early cars (when there was only one body style) the body numbers are in the ballpark of the car number but not matching. Both were just a count that theoretically started at 0 with no effort to keep them aligned. Similar to the engine numbers being in the neighborhood of 50,000 higher than the car number. Did dodge 1 get body 1 and engine 50,001?  I have no idea. Car number on the frame rail is how to date them…. But if I had a 16 with a body number less than 45000 and wanted to go on hcca tours… I would be ignoring the number on the frame rail. 

[nearchoclatetown]

To add more to the conversation and confusion, here's more. I own a 3 digit touring car, serial 2xx and body number 108, no T as they only made touring cars at that time. So how did they build over 200 cars without getting to 200 body number?  I also have a 1918 light repair truck which has no body number. And looking at the DBC's 1919 truck it has no body number but was built with the same cowl as my truck, no doors. All DBs are all the same. 

[Mark Gregush]

Just went out and looked; my early calendar year 1920 touring does not have a letter in front or behind the body number. 

[nearchoclatetown]

How about the Aussie four cylinder cars? DO they have body numbers? I think I heard the cowl was assembled when the chassis were sent down under. Is that true? Is it the same system? It MAY shed some light on when the body numbers were applied.

[Ron Lawson]

Doug from what I have seen of the mid 20s DBs that were bodied here they appear to be cut off at the front of the doors The cowls appear to be Budd all steel and a timber frame was made from there back 

[nearchoclatetown]

Thanks Ron, that is what I heard. They were shipped with cowl, hood, and fenders. Of course you call them different names. Do you know if the had body numbers on them?  It would make sense that they would not as they really don't have a body yet. 

[Minibago]

Doug,

As I understand things, circumstances changed regularly.

Here in Australia full bodied cars were imported until the Australian laws were changed in 1917 due to several reasons, shipping space was one but the effect on local manufacturing was paramount.

The name was “The Luxuries Restriction Bill” and applied to all imported cars. (Among other luxury goods) Fully assembled cars were also imported (a low percentage) and were taxed heavily.

Commonwealth countries were favoured here in Australia so many DB units came from Canada. Interestingly the Melbourne Victoria agent for Dodge Brothers was  “Canada Cycles”.

In regard to the Dodge Brothers cars of the time the first Australian bodies were built by Holden.

T J Richards signed a contract with Dodge Brothers in 1922.

I understand that kits were sent to Sydney NSW and Brisbane Queensland for assembly there as Australia is a very similar sized land mass to the USA.

Both Holden and T J Richards built bodies for several different brands during  this era.

Some years later Holden were absorbed into General Motors and T J Richards were absorbed into Chrysler.

The death of the two brothers would have disrupted things as did the sale first to Dillon Read and then to Chrysler.

I owned a 1933 Dodge Brothers a few years back which had TJR stamped into the firewall so good luck to anyone trying to make any link to a series of numbers except the chassis and engine, however as I have found, many of these cars have been worn out once (sometimes more than once) and discarded only to be resurrected from a pile of parts so only the chassis number can be relied upon as most engines will have been replaced at some time.

Only my thoughts, Nige.

😊

 

[Minibago]

However, not all Dodge Brothers cars built in South Australia had Holden or T J Richards bodies.

 

[nearchoclatetown]

Thanks Nige, that goes very closely to what I have heard or read. I forget the first importer's name, it's early here, but the story is famous here. He came to America without appointments and waited for three days outside of someone's office. DB had not even thought about exporting yet, maybe early '16? He finally got to pitch his request and became the first to export DBs to any company. I call that persistence. I have a panoramic picture showing about 55 DBs parked in front of buildings with Standardised Motors Limited New car Assembly Plant. Two signs say Dodge Park. All the headlights are mounted where cowl lights are usually mounted. Most of the cars are sedans so I guess it was at least '17 or '18. I also know Deanne and Pam, owners of the first DB in Australia. I sure hope they didn't use real bricks on that '24.

[nearchoclatetown]

I guess what I am really trying to say is the Aussie market was always important to DB. Lots of cars sold or built down under. and still lots of interest in them. I get both Restored cars and Beaded Wheels and there's always a fair share of them in both magazines  We just have to keep an eye on some of you that don't realize Phillips screws are a new invention. 

[Minibago]

Pam and Deane are simply first class people, I have very high regard for them both.

 

Cheney was the chap you referred to Doug.

 

[Minibago]

Standardised Motors were the Sydney Agents.

 

 

Austral motors were in Brisbane. Their building is still there.

 

 

 

[nearchoclatetown]

Yes, Cheney was the name. He must have had a big pair and a gift of gab. That is interesting info you printed there. Thanks Nige. 

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Thanks Nige, really interesting history there.

I know the Prime Minister of the time banned the importation of complete motor vehicles to promote and boost local industry so it does beg the question of how some of the cars got in.

This is really interesting.

 

Quite a while ago while I was researching my car a guy told me that someone at an RTA Office in NSW rescued all the old registration records of all cars registered in Australia from the early 1900's. I tried to find the records but hit a dead end.

[Minibago]

Hi Ian,

 

It is an interesting subject and very little seems to be available from the time, this short piece seems to indicate a banning of all fully assembled motor vehicles unless given written permission from the minister however, my 1917 Roadster and my 1919 Touring car are both Budd bodied, fully imported new.
Regarding the 1919 Touring car, the first owner (I am only the third) was a salesman for The Canada Cycle Company in Melbourne. I was under the impression that there was a small percentage allowed in but I cannot find any documentary evidence for this yet.

 

 

[nearchoclatetown]

Nige, are both your cars right hand drive?

[Minibago]

Yes they are Doug