Best Value in a Roadster

[John Bloom]

Guys, the comments and input about Classic Roadsters (1925-1928 and 1929-1931) have been great.  Lots of input on several makes, a lot of it from personal experience.  The Pierce Arrow specs and input are educational and interesting.  Keep the Pierce Info Flowing.........

 

For comparison sake and looking at another option, lets talk about Packard Roadsters.  Insight and personal experience are much appreciated.  

 

Packard Roadster Options 1925-1931:

 

Packard Roadster options starting in 1925 can be grouped into two categories, the 326 with a 289 Six on a 126 inch wheelbase, and the 236 with a 357 Eight on a 136 inch wheelbase.  Mechanical Brakes were on both lines.  In the years 1926-1928 there were several series to include the shorter 426 with a 289 Six on a 126 inch wheelbase, 526 also with 289 Six on a 126 inch wheelbase, and 533 with a 289 Six on a 133 inch wheelbase.  Those years saw Roadsters in larger platforms on the 336 with a 384 Eight on a 136 inch wheelbase, and the 443 with a 384 Eight on a 143 inch wheelbase.  These models also saw mechanical brakes.  

 

Starting in 1929 with the 6 Series models, only the Eight Cylinder Engines were placed in Packards.  Wheelbases were offered in 126, 133, 140, and 145.5 inches with 320  Eights on the 126 and 133 inch wheelbases and the larger 640 and 645 had 384 Eights on 140 and 145.5 inch wheelbases.   1929 had the very special Speedster in Roadster Format which was set up differently with the 384 Eight on a 134 inch wheelbase. 

 

In 1930 and 1931 the format for the 7 and 8 series (except for the Speedster) followed form as follows: 733: 320 Eight on 134.5 wheelbase.  740: 384 Eight on 140.5 Wheelbase.  745:  384 Eight on 145.5 wheelbase.  833:  320 Eight on 134.5 wheelbase.  840:  384 Eight on 140.5 wheelbase.  845:  384 Eight on 145.5 Wheelbase.  

 

That is a lot of data to dump.  The earlier years of those Packard Roadsters can be summed up as the shorter cars having a six and the longer ones having an eight.  I'm thinking of some of the feedback given on Pierce Arrow, specifically the 80/81 with the smaller Six Cylinder engines and wondering if they performed similar to the shorter Packards with the six.  I don't have production numbers but I assume the search for these Packard roadsters is easier based on how many more were made relative to Pierce.  

 

When you get to the longer wheelbase, larger displacement models, I know there are fake Roadsters out there.  Sedans sacrificed for the higher value Open models.  I need to get an education in that without getting too deep in the weeds.  What are some guidelines as you evaluate if a car is presenting with a different body than initially built.  What are the varying grades of "fake/misrepresented" understood in the hobby (re-bodied correctly in period, vice some crazy custom one off being completely wrong....)  I almost hate to bring this up because it could be its own thread and may take us way off the main topic, but I do recognize it is important.  People want to buy an honest car.....

 

What experience do some of you have with Packard Roadsters from this era?  What have you noticed good and bad about them as a whole and individual models?  I suspect most of the longer wheelbases with big Eights and the Speedster are north of my 100K ceiling, but lets talk about them anyway.  Does anyone out there like or dislike Packard Roadsters and can you share your reasoning? 

   

 

 

  

[alsancle]

The only downside to Pierce Arrow is the club initiation ceremony makes the one in Animal House look tame.

[md murray]

Yawwwn....all this Packard talk is making me sleepy😛. How about this car for interesting ('31 imperial CG that sold at Mecum for $82500 in 2018)? I assume that it is not the genuine article and that no real Imperial would ever sell sub 6 figures but how about some of the earlier Chrysler roadsters? They're a car I must admit that I know very little about.

 

[alsancle]

29 minutes ago, md murray said:

Yawwwn....all this Packard talk is making me sleepy😛. How about this car for interesting ('31 imperial CG that sold at Mecum for $82500 in 2018)? I assume that it is not the genuine article and that no real Imperial would ever sell sub 6 figures but how about some of the earlier Chrysler roadsters? They're a car I must admit that I know very little about.

 

Agreed.

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6855-1931-chrysler-cg-imperial-convertible-coupe/

[John Bloom]

2 hours ago, md murray said:

Yawwwn....all this Packard talk is making me sleepy😛. How about this car for interesting ('31 imperial CG that sold at Mecum for $82500 in 2018)? I assume that it is not the genuine article and that no real Imperial would ever sell sub 6 figures but how about some of the earlier Chrysler roadsters? They're a car I must admit that I know very little about.

 

It is stunning and I do want to spend some time and research into all the Chrysler Roadster options of these years.   A beautiful Imperial Roadster for half the price of convertible coupe that “needs sorting”.....

 

I have vague memories of a Song from the past......I cheated and looked it up.....

C+C Music Factory “Things that make you go Hmmmm”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grimy]

The windshield on the maroon "roadster" looks way too tall to my eyes....and not raked enough but the latter may be perspective.

[md murray]

13 minutes ago, Grimy said:

The windshield on the maroon "roadster" looks way too tall to my eyes....and not raked enough but the latter may be perspective.

Yep- I think you're spot on there. Not to mention the top on the red car is kind of hoaky -It looks like the top should over-lap the windshield frame a little. 

 

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

The only downside to Pierce Arrow is the club initiation ceremony makes the one in Animal House look tame.

Btw- Grimy can you lend us a little insight here? 😄  

[Grimy]

12 minutes ago, md murray said:

5 hours ago, alsancle said:

The only downside to Pierce Arrow is the club initiation ceremony makes the one in Animal House look tame.

Btw- Grimy can you lend us a little insight here? 😄  

You'll have to join to find out.....  🙂 But our initiation is not quite as stressy as an E Clampus Vitus initiation.  (For those unaware of ECV, it began during the Gold Rush as an organization mocking major fraternal organizations, so each Chapter Leader is titled the Noble Grand Humbug, and the Virginia City NV (yes, I know that silver, not gold, was mined in Virginia City) chapter is named after Julia C. Bulette, the most prominent madam of that community.  Today ECV is best termed a men's historical and drinking organization.  I'd love to sponsor Ed and AJ as members but insist on overseeing their initiation.)

[alsancle]

16 minutes ago, Grimy said:

You'll have to join to find out.....  🙂 But our initiation is not quite as stressy as an E Clampus Vitus initiation.  (For those unaware of ECV, it began during the Gold Rush as an organization mocking major fraternal organizations, so each Chapter Leader is titled the Noble Grand Humbug, and the Virginia City NV (yes, I know that silver, not gold, was mined in Virginia City) chapter is named after Julia C. Bulette, the most prominent madam of that community.  Today ECV is best termed a men's historical and drinking organization.  I'd love to sponsor Ed and AJ as members but insist on overseeing their initiation.)

Come on George!  Ed made me join years ago.

 

Edit: whoops, you weren’t taking to me.  Downside to reading on your phone.

Edited May 7, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

8 hours ago, Grimy said:

You'll have to join to find out.....  🙂 But our initiation is not quite as stressy as an E Clampus Vitus initiation.  (For those unaware of ECV, it began during the Gold Rush as an organization mocking major fraternal organizations, so each Chapter Leader is titled the Noble Grand Humbug, and the Virginia City NV (yes, I know that silver, not gold, was mined in Virginia City) chapter is named after Julia C. Bulette, the most prominent madam of that community.  Today ECV is best termed a men's historical and drinking organization.  I'd love to sponsor Ed and AJ as members but insist on overseeing their initiation.)

I've had the wonderful opportunity to experience hazing/traditions and initiation more than once.  Fraternities, Navy, Sports........  but never heard of that esteemed organization George.  I hope you get a chance to sponsor Ed and AJ and live stream it.

 

 

 

 

[John Bloom]

It goes without saying, the more expensive an open model is, the more likely someone will take a Sedan and Voila....a Roadster or Phaeton.  Since I brought up Packard Roadsters, what percentage of the 140, 143 inch wheelbase ones do you think are legit?  Also, someone more knowledgeable than me, clue us in on the "'levels of Re-bodying" a model (For example, lets say a Packard 740 Roadster).  There are "legit original cars".... below that there are......What?  A true 740 Chassis and drivetrain from a sedan with a true from factory Roadster Body placed on it after the fact?  below that a True Chassis and drivetrain with some home fabricated body?  Incorrect motors and bodies?   What is the pecking order of this type of thing from Legit to "complete utter disaster"....?  what is a realistic value for these modifications (based on the changes made) I think I saw somewhere AJ used the number of 30% is about right for a "fake car"????  Sorry if I butchered that quote or number AJ...

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, John Bloom said:

It goes without saying, the more expensive an open model is, the more likely someone will take a Sedan and Voila....a Roadster or Phaeton.  Since I brought up Packard Roadsters, what percentage of the 140, 143 inch wheelbase ones do you think are legit?  Also, someone more knowledgeable than me, clue us in on the "'levels of Re-bodying" a model (For example, lets say a Packard 740 Roadster).  There are "legit original cars".... below that there are......What?  A true 740 Chassis and drivetrain from a sedan with a true from factory Roadster Body placed on it after the fact?  below that a True Chassis and drivetrain with some home fabricated body?  Incorrect motors and bodies?   What is the pecking order of this type of thing from Legit to "complete utter disaster"....?  what is a realistic value for these modifications (based on the changes made) I think I saw somewhere AJ used the number of 30% is about right for a "fake car"????  Sorry if I butchered that quote or number AJ...

 

The problem with Packard in that era was their roadster was basically coupe with the top chopped off.    Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s converting a coupe to a roadster was very common and not really frowned upon.

 

The provenance of a car is on a spectrum and hence so is the value.   And it is very complicated.    When you see a great price,  that is one that checks all the boxes including a picture of the original owner sitting on the hood like Slim Pickens in Dr StrangeLove with the chassis plate clearly visible.    Clearly pretty rare. 

 

The 25-30% is when you have a replicated very expensive car.   Think 540K Special Roadster,   Packard Lebaron Speedster, etc.   I think the number is actually trending down,  as you can buy a dead nuts 540K Special Roadster with new coachwork in the 1,000,000 plus range,  while a real one is over 10,000,000.

 

 

[alsancle]

I know you are looking for value,  but if writing the check didn't matter,  or if a compromised car is ok I would be looking for a 745 Roadster.   I've always loved them.

 

Steve Snyder had this one,  which has a pretty good history with it.  Probably about as good as you can find.

 

https://www.vaultcars.com/1930-packard-745-roadster

 

 

[alsancle]

20 hours ago, Grimy said:

The windshield on the maroon "roadster" looks way too tall to my eyes....and not raked enough but the latter may be perspective.

 

Agreed.  I like the convertible coupe better which is why I posted it.

[edinmass]

George.......I don’t think I want to be a member of any organization that has standards so low they would accept me for membership consideration. 
 

Recently a friend purchased four CCCA cars in about 36 months time starting low on the pole, and his fourth purchase was a Model J. That’s express collecting to the top. To his credit he bought a GOOD model J that we properly vetted. I promised him a year before he bought a Model J that I would be the one to share with him the secret handshake of all Model J owners. On the Texas Duesenberg tour 8 weeks ago, at the early bird party, he was asking for the secret handshake. When I showed him, he was amused. Anyone want to guess what it is?

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I know you are looking for value,  but if writing the check didn't matter,  or if a compromised car is ok I would be looking for a 745 Roadster.   I've always loved them.

 

Steve Snyder had this one,  which has a pretty good history with it.  Probably about as good as you can find.

 

https://www.vaultcars.com/1930-packard-745-roadster

 

 

AJ, I specifically left a 745 Roadster out because I assumed most were custom body, rare, possibly fake and surely way over 100K if legitimate. That being said, I totally agree with you. They are dripping with such good looks.   If you find one for anywhere close to 100 grand, why don’t you give me a quick call before you let anybody else know about it!

[md murray]

4 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

AJ, I specifically left a 745 Roadster out because I assumed most were custom body, rare, possibly fake and surely way over 100K if legitimate. That being said, I totally agree with you. They are dripping with such good looks.   If you find one for anywhere close to 100 grand, why don’t you give me a quick call before you let anybody else know about it!

So you're saying you would pass on a nicely done fake/converted roadster at a fair price?

[John Bloom]

45 minutes ago, md murray said:

So you're saying you would pass on a nicely done fake/converted roadster at a fair price?

Not at all, as long as the price reflected what it was and there was no misrepresentation of the car.   

[John Bloom]

Speaking of a 745 Roadster. Was there an in house Roadster body that Packard put on a 745, or were all Roadsters on a 745 a coach built product?

[alsancle]

37 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Speaking of a 745 Roadster. Was there an in house Roadster body that Packard put on a 745, or were all Roadsters on a 745 a coach built product?

I think the production body was the same as the 740 with the extra 5” in the hood.  But I’m not sure.

[edinmass]

Biggest problem with 29-31 Packards is they are not fantastic drivers unless extensively sorted. About one in fifty is correct. (Most of them I have driven leave a lot to be desired. Done right they steer and stop “average” for the era.) Thus, if you manage to score a nice Packard, plan on quite a bit of sorting...........I find steering and brakes on them to be neglected and not many perform more than fifty percent at best. I’m told the hard core early Packard guys prefer the 1928 platform.......though I have no clue to the upgrades done over the years. I only have experience with 1932 to 1941 cars.

[John Bloom]

18 hours ago, edinmass said:

Biggest problem with 29-31 Packards is they are not fantastic drivers unless extensively sorted. About one in fifty is correct. (Most of them I have driven leave a lot to be desired. Done right they steer and stop “average” for the era.) Thus, if you manage to score a nice Packard, plan on quite a bit of sorting...........I find steering and brakes on them to be neglected and not many perform more than fifty percent at best. I’m told the hard core early Packard guys prefer the 1928 platform.......though I have no clue to the upgrades done over the years. I only have experience with 1932 to 1941 cars.

Ed, thanks for this.  I wonder what changed after 1928?  As for braking and steering problems, is there a primary cause of each that you see time and time again? (i.e........the most common brake problem with mechanical brakes and steering of this era)  One thing that becomes more and more apparent is the inventory of Packard Roadsters seems to imply that they are available.  As I look at some other makes, there isn't a single one listed that seems to be available.  Maybe joining each make's individual club would put you in contact with cars that aren't listed but could be bought from word of mouth within the club.  I was doing some research on Lincoln Roadsters of those years and didn't see much for sale, and most of the past listed sales looked like convertible coupes, not Roadsters.  

 

How does the Packard 289 Six compare to the Pierce 80/81 288 Six, and how does the Packard 384 Eight compare with the Pierce Series 33/36 414.7 Six?  Any general comments?

 

Visually, the look of the longer wheelbase Packard Roadsters is impressive.  In particular in darker colors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

9 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Ed, thanks for this.  I wonder what changed after 1928?  As for braking and steering problems, is there a primary cause of each that you see time and time again? (i.e........the most common brake problem with mechanical brakes and steering of this era)  One thing that becomes more and more apparent is the inventory of Packard Roadsters seems to imply that they are available.  As I look at some other makes, there isn't a single one listed that seems to be available.  Maybe joining each make's individual club would put you in contact with cars that aren't listed but could be bought from word of mouth within the club.  I was doing some research on Lincoln Roadsters of those years and didn't see much for sale, and most of the past listed sales looked like convertible coupes, not Roadsters.  

 

How does the Packard 289 Six compare to the Pierce 80/81 288 Six, and how does the Packard 384 Eight compare with the Pierce Series 33/36 414.7 Six?  Any general comments?

 

Visually, the look of the longer wheelbase Packard Roadsters is impressive.  In particular in darker colors.

 

Ed knows more about brakes and steering boxes than most people know about the back of their hands.  A true savant.   But,  he will put you in a Pierce Arrow,  even if somebody wanted to GIVE you the best Packard 845 in the world.  

[Walt G]

All the discussion about appearance, performance etc is great but until you can sit behind the wheel of one ( not necessarily moving) you also need to take into account - DO YOU FIT?  Is it comfortable? Do your knees hit the bottom of the steering wheel when you go to shift or brake? Cost , and styling, how fast it can go or how well it can steer, or ride, take a step down for me from the question - will I be comfortable driving this thing for one, two, or more hours at a time or for a week or more on a tour?  45-50 years ago I had my experience in a 1929 Packard standard 8 roadster , CCCA first place car , no room in front for someone who is 6 feet tall and long in leg.

Although not a roadster ( has wind up windows) a close friend for decades had a 1933 Chrysler CQ conv coupe, 1932 CP8 conv sedan and a 1933 Royal 8  model CT conv coupe. I was very very comfortable driving and riding for some length of time in any of those cars and eventually bought the Royal 8 from him.

I like to and have driven my cars for some hours ( 5 plus in August 80+ degree heat) just to get to a car event to attend for a week and then driven it home. It was my sole means of transportation for 1,100 to 1,200 miles for that week ( I don't own a truck/trailer etc) . Think about what "your pleasure " is - being looked at, or admired , posing next to or behind the wheel of a pre war car - or possibly owning and using it for the reason it was made - to drive down the road and take people along with you for that experience. 

[alsancle]

Walt is correct,  but sometimes there are tricks you can do to make some extra room.   Thinning out the seat back being one, if you can't move it back.

Edited May 9, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[jrbartlett]

I have a 1929 640 Packard Super Eight roadster, and can offer you some insights.

 

Quality is very high, and the cars are very reliable with a smooth-running engine. I find the car easy to drive so long as you don't mind double-clutching. Steering is not hard on my car, but I must admit that my car had only 40,000 original miles when I bought it and thus very little wear. The mechanical brakes can be excellent if properly adjusted -- the owner's manual contains the exact sequence needed -- and given the correct linings on the shoes. We had a '29 club sedan when I was a kid in the 1960s that you could easily lock up the brakes if you wanted. My car is geared 4.07 to one, a mid-way compromise between cruising and hill climbing. I cruise at 55 m.p.h. comfortably, or if really in a hurry at 65, though I'd rather not. Still have the original babbit bearings and original pistons and valves, though an earlier owner had done a ring and valve job before I got the car. Strengths are (again) smoothness, reliability and quality. Weaknesses are you need to be willing to adjust the brakes properly, the updraft carburetor and vacuum tank can be touchy (but brand-new carbs are now being made and vacuum tanks can be repaired), and the roller-tappet valve lifters are riveted together and the rivets can loosen up and cause valve noise (but there are fixes for this too). 

 

In terms of styling, some prefer the 1928 because it's on a longer 143.5-inch wheelbase, vs. 140.5 for the 1929, with the extra length in the hood. Also, the '28 has 109 horsepower vs. 106 for the '29; apparently the earlier model had some lighter components that didn't work out. The bodies on the two are identical, and are the last two years for the low beltline that's accented by a bead that runs the length of the car. Just look online for the many ways these cars have been attractively restored to highlight the low beltline. The 1930 is nearly identical mechanically to the '29, but has a more bulbous-looking rear quarter that makes the Packard look like any other roadster of that era. The 1930 745s and later-year models have the long sweeping fenders that many find desirable, and in 1931 and later horsepower started an upward climb. Note that current prices escalate right along with power and later-year styling. 

 

Standard Eights (320 cubic inches, 90 HP) are far more common than Super Eights (384.8 cubic inches, 106 to 150 horsepower depending on year model).   

 

I can't compare these Packards to Pierces because I've had no experience with the latter. I do consider the Packard a cut above same-year Cadillacs, but the difference is not huge.

 

Incidentally, a real bargain and top performer by comparison would be one of the lesser Chrysler roadsters, like a Model 75 or 77. Excellent cars, and really flashy in the early '30s with their Vee-shaped grills and low-slung styling, along with hydraulic brakes and a more modern engine design.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by jrbartlett (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The Packard Super Eight is certainly the "go to" roadster of the era. They are fairly common and come up for sale enough so that you can have options before you pull the trigger. Many of the other brands as very similar to Packards, but are scarce as hen's teeth. My only objection to pre 1932 Packards is there are so many of them, and I like to be on a field with a "what's that car? type of ride. That's what made my White so appealing........never gonna see another one. There is no perfect car, just cars that we find, fix, and learn to live with. Like women, some cars are easier to live with than others. Packard, Pierce, Lincoln, Cadillac and all the others NEVER made junk. They did have their challenges back in the day, and today also. The only pre war cars I have ever gotten sorted to what I call "done" and didn't stay there with just minimum basic exercise and service? Cadillac's from 1929 to 1932. Love them..........and hate them. The best all around pre war car that as an overall package is the "best on the road". Simple, easy choice- 1934 Packard V-12. I have never owned one, but worked on countless numbers. They do EVERYTHING well......with no excuses. Don't tell the Pierce guys please. 

[John Bloom]

15 hours ago, jrbartlett said:

I have a 1929 640 Packard Super Eight roadster, and can offer you some insights.

 

Quality is very high, and the cars are very reliable with a smooth-running engine. I find the car easy to drive so long as you don't mind double-clutching. Steering is not hard on my car, but I must admit that my car had only 40,000 original miles when I bought it and thus very little wear. The mechanical brakes can be excellent if properly adjusted -- the owner's manual contains the exact sequence needed -- and given the correct linings on the shoes. We had a '29 club sedan when I was a kid in the 1960s that you could easily lock up the brakes if you wanted. My car is geared 4.07 to one, a mid-way compromise between cruising and hill climbing. I cruise at 55 m.p.h. comfortably, or if really in a hurry at 65, though I'd rather not. Still have the original babbit bearings and original pistons and valves, though an earlier owner had done a ring and valve job before I got the car. Strengths are (again) smoothness, reliability and quality. Weaknesses are you need to be willing to adjust the brakes properly, the updraft carburetor and vacuum tank can be touchy (but brand-new carbs are now being made and vacuum tanks can be repaired), and the roller-tappet valve lifters are riveted together and the rivets can loosen up and cause valve noise (but there are fixes for this too). 

 

In terms of styling, some prefer the 1928 because it's on a longer 143.5-inch wheelbase, vs. 140.5 for the 1929, with the extra length in the hood. Also, the '28 has 109 horsepower vs. 106 for the '29; apparently the earlier model had some lighter components that didn't work out. The bodies on the two are identical, and are the last two years for the low beltline that's accented by a bead that runs the length of the car. Just look online for the many ways these cars have been attractively restored to highlight the low beltline. The 1930 is nearly identical mechanically to the '29, but has a more bulbous-looking rear quarter that makes the Packard look like any other roadster of that era. The 1930 745s and later-year models have the long sweeping fenders that many find desirable, and in 1931 and later horsepower started an upward climb. Note that current prices escalate right along with power and later-year styling. 

 

Standard Eights (320 cubic inches, 90 HP) are far more common than Super Eights (384.8 cubic inches, 106 to 150 horsepower depending on year model).   

 

I can't compare these Packards to Pierces because I've had no experience with the latter. I do consider the Packard a cut above same-year Cadillacs, but the difference is not huge.

 

Incidentally, a real bargain and top performer by comparison would be one of the lesser Chrysler roadsters, like a Model 75 or 77. Excellent cars, and really flashy in the early '30s with their Vee-shaped grills and low-slung styling, along with hydraulic brakes and a more modern engine design.

 

 

JR, thanks for the great insight from a Packard Roadster owner.  Your comments on the mechanicals, differences in years and appearance are really interesting to me.  The gearing setup of yours and your speed comments give me some idea of this car being used on different types of touring.  I did exactly what you said and looked at the different color schemes using the beltline to demarcate between colors as well as solid color cars.  They are really handsome.  Your comments comparing them to Cadillacs is also helpful and I intend to dig into them as a make for research soon.  If you have a good pic of your Packard Roadster, please do share it.  As for the Chrysler Roadsters, this thread started from an ad for a Chrysler Roadster of these years that Ed commented was a good value for the car.  It got me thinking about the values in different makes for what they offered.  I have to say, those Chrysler Imperial Roadsters are so attractive.  I will focus on either Chrysler or Cadillac next, but eventually get around to both.  

[John Bloom]

18 hours ago, edinmass said:

The Packard Super Eight is certainly the "go to" roadster of the era. They are fairly common and come up for sale enough so that you can have options before you pull the trigger. Many of the other brands as very similar to Packards, but are scarce as hen's teeth. My only objection to pre 1932 Packards is there are so many of them, and I like to be on a field with a "what's that car? type of ride. That's what made my White so appealing........never gonna see another one. There is no perfect car, just cars that we find, fix, and learn to live with. Like women, some cars are easier to live with than others. Packard, Pierce, Lincoln, Cadillac and all the others NEVER made junk. They did have their challenges back in the day, and today also. The only pre war cars I have ever gotten sorted to what I call "done" and didn't stay there with just minimum basic exercise and service? Cadillac's from 1929 to 1932. Love them..........and hate them. The best all around pre war car that as an overall package is the "best on the road". Simple, easy choice- 1934 Packard V-12. I have never owned one, but worked on countless numbers. They do EVERYTHING well......with no excuses. Don't tell the Pierce guys please. 

Ed, thanks for this.  You and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum with these Classics......you have been around them all your life and understand the nuanes, values, and strengths and weaknesses relative to the different makes and models.  I am not new to collectible cars, but only in the last 5 years starting to read and research more with Classics, so this world is still relatively new to me and my proven mechanical skills are relatively modest.  I don't have the experience to make some of these comparisons that you guys are so helpful with.  I did take from your comment above that Packards are "best on the road".......that is the money quote, right?.......(forwarding this to Ed's friends at the PAS).....🙂

 

[jrbartlett]

As requested, attached is a photo of my '29 Packard Super Eight roadster. I didn't choose the colors -- but at the time I purchased the car, it was the only freshly restored roadster on the market (only 50 miles on the restoration, and 40,100 miles on the odometer). I get many positive comments during parades (red, white and blue). And the car looks great at night. I've run it another 8,000 miles over the past decade.  

[md murray]

Hey here's a fun one! I realize it's smaller but certainly a rare roadster.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/206/?category=list&length=96&page=3

Edited May 17, 2021 by md murray (see edit history)

[alsancle]

4 hours ago, md murray said:

Hey here's a fun one! I realize it's smaller but certainly a rare roadster.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/206/?category=list&length=96&page=3

 

 

Crap.   I missed that and now I'm gonna have to bid on it.  Thanks.

 

[alsancle]

For this thread,  a better choice:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/208/

 

 

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 

Crap.   I missed that and now I'm gonna have to bid on it.  Thanks.

 

 

No history....your not gonna bid.

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

For this thread,  a better choice:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26618/lot/208/

 

 

No history on this one either........🤔

[John Bloom]

11 hours ago, jrbartlett said:

As requested, attached is a photo of my '29 Packard Super Eight roadster. I didn't choose the colors -- but at the time I purchased the car, it was the only freshly restored roadster on the market (only 50 miles on the restoration, and 40,100 miles on the odometer). I get many positive comments during parades (red, white and blue). And the car looks great at night. I've run it another 8,000 miles over the past decade.  

James, your car looks fantastic.  Thanks for sharing the pic.  A great example of some of the models we've ben talking about.  

[John Bloom]

That Hudson Boattail is sweet.  Not sure I've seen one before.  The 640 Roadster has that great profile of length relative to height.  I'm not sure objectively how it compares (length vs height) to other makes and models, but it looks perfect to me.  

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

No history....your not gonna bid.

 

 I'm not too worried about people faking 75k Hudson Speedsters. 

[edinmass]

54 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

 I'm not too worried about people faking 75k Hudson Speedsters. 

 

 

I wouldn't bet that it goes on the low side...........I have seen one sell in the past 5 years in the 150's. As far as factory or not, the standard rule applies. I have never driven one, but am told they are nice drivers. Small for my taste.

Edited May 18, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

 

I wouldn't bet that it goes on the low side...........I have seen one sell in the past 5 years in the 150's. As far as factory or not, the standard rule applies. I have never driven one, but am told they are nice drivers. Small for my taste.

 

I follow the market on these closely.  I expect it to well, which is why I'm happy to raise my paddle at low estimate.

 

If you look at any of the factory speedsters,   Kissel, Auburn, Stutz, Marmon,   these are the best value.