My 1937 Roadmaster 80C Four Door Convertible Phaeton

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, MCHinson said:

Despite a lot of conflicting information that I have read online, I think that the bulbs that should work in the headlights are:

 

2320 - 32/21 Candlepower

2330 - 32/32 Candlepower

2520 - 50/21 Candlepower

2530 - 50/32 Candlepower

 

I have also learned a bit about 2331 bulbs which will not work in Buick headlights.

 

That is all correct, although the 2520 is a new one on me. Current production bulbs are all 2530 more or less, although they vary and may not quite hit any spec.

 

2320 are stock for my Pontiac, and are almost impossible to find. I did manage to find a couple. 2330 are what most NOS/NORS bulbs still available in quantity are, and were often used to replace 2320 back in the day.

 

Isn't 2330 stock for the 37 Buick? 2530 would be great if your generator can carry them without sagging. I really think it can, but I have not been able to test that yet.

 

2 hours ago, MCHinson said:

Today, I also received a set of fog lights that I purchased on ebay. While they look almost like new, one of them did not work. I found that the one that did not work had a 2331 bulb in it, so the bulb contacts were not lined up with the wiring contacts. I changed that one to a 2320 bulb and it now works. As soon as I receive a set of mounting brackets, I will be ready to install the fog lights.  

 

What kind of fog lights are they? I think that is pretty unusual to have dual contact sockets and dual filament bulbs in fog lights. I would have expected a prefocus bulb with a single contact.

 

 

 

 

[Grimy]

On 8/26/2021 at 4:32 PM, MCHinson said:

 

Recently, I purchased an Exhaust Valve Body to Intake Manifold Block-Off Plate that Cars, Inc. sells on Ebay. I tried to order it direct from them, but for some reason, at the moment, they only sell it on Ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/174848214914 

 

Today, I decided it was time to remove the “butterfly” or “flapper” from the exhaust manifold valve body, install the block-off plate, as well as install a set of Remflex Exhaust Manifold gaskets. https://catalog.remflex.com/BUICK_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/13-009.htm and new Exhaust manifold studs and washers recently purchased from Bob's Automobila. I was also prepared to install a new exhaust pipe gasket, but I was able to leave the exhaust pipe attached to the valve body, so that one was not needed.  

A couple of days ago, I applied a 50% ATF and 50% Acetone mixture to the manifold studs and valve body bolts. Today, I removed the manifold nuts, and studs, removed the valve body bolts, and removed the intake manfold and exhaust manfold. With the intake manifold out of the way, I used dremel tool and a sawzall to remove the flapper from the butterfly valve in the valve body. I then welded the previously broken loose weight and spring assembly to the right side of the flapper valve shaft returning it to an original looking condition despite the removal of the butterfly.

 

I then installed the exhaust manifold gaskets and loosely installed the two manifolds. It then was able to insert the block off plate and exhaust valve body gasket. Getting those into position and installing the bolts in the exhaust valve body was the most difficult part of the job. I used a new set of exhaust valve body bolts, to hopefully make removing them easier in the future. After hooking up the gas and vaccum lines, and starter vaccum switch wiring, and reinstalling the air cleaner, the car is running fine.  I tried to take a photo to show the flapper valve in the position where it was causing problems, but the flapper is a bit difficult to see in the photo. I also should have probably taken a few more photos.

Matt, for the love of the Almighty, please jettison that fire-waiting-to-happen regulator next to the carb and install a professional version, like a Holley #12-804 (no, I have no interest in Holley).

[MCHinson]

7 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

That is all correct, although the 2520 is a new one on me. Current production bulbs are all 2530 more or less, although they vary and may not quite hit any spec.

 

2320 are stock for my Pontiac, and are almost impossible to find. I did manage to find a couple. 2330 are what most NOS/NORS bulbs still available in quantity are, and were often used to replace 2320 back in the day.

 

Isn't 2330 stock for the 37 Buick? 2530 would be great if your generator can carry them without sagging. I really think it can, but I have not been able to test that yet.

 

 

What kind of fog lights are they? I think that is pretty unusual to have dual contact sockets and dual filament bulbs in fog lights. I would have expected a prefocus bulb with a single contact.

 

The shop manual lists a 2320L as the original equipment headlamp bulbs. The suppliers all now simply list a 2330 as stock for them. 

 

The fog lights are B-L-C Model 2001P, 6 11/16 inch  

They don't appear to have ever been installed on a car before. They are a bit unusual. I think they are a period correct available GM dealer installed option, but I have not confirmed that yet. 

[MCHinson]

5 hours ago, Grimy said:

Matt, for the love of the Almighty, please jettison that fire-waiting-to-happen regulator next to the carb and install a professional version, like a Holley #12-804 (no, I have no interest in Holley).

 

I have not had any problems with similar fuel pressure regulators over the years. It was what was available at my local auto parts store when I needed one. Do you have any further information as to why I should feel safer with the Holley fuel pressure regulator? When I do a quick search online for leaking fuel pressure regulators, a link that I found is for a problem with a different model number Holley fuel pressure regulator similar to the one that you are recommending: https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?23526-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Leak

[Grimy]

I could not make out the brand name on yours, but 20 years ago I had a similarly appearing "Purolator" (now made in China, sold in Walmart and other places in a blister pack for about $20, Purolator founder Ben Sweetland must be whirling like a dervish in his grave) that at least gave a warning by seeping first--and mine was not over an exhaust manifold.  Ask @edinmass what he thinks about both the product and where it is placed.

[MCHinson]

It is a Mr Gasket Company product. I put it there to replace a glass bowl fuel filter that I really did not want anywhere near the exhaust manifold. At some time in the future, I might relocate it to just after the fuel pump, but it is clearly less of a hazard than the fuel filter that was there when I bought the car. 

[Matt Harwood]

I used this one successfully on my 1929 Cadillac for many years. Never leaked and I was able to turn the pressure down to about 1 PSI for the gravity-feed carburetor. It should be able to manage the 3-5 PSI that the Buick needs. Just mount it somewhere in the fuel line out of sight where you have some room to adjust it, maybe right on the outlet side of the fuel pump using a brass nipple (I think both are 3/8 NPT).

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-804

[38Buick 80C]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I used this one successfully on my 1929 Cadillac for many years. Never leaked and I was able to turn the pressure down to about 1 PSI for the gravity-feed carburetor. It should be able to manage the 3-5 PSI that the Buick needs. Just mount it somewhere in the fuel line out of sight where you have some room to adjust it, maybe right on the outlet side of the fuel pump using a brass nipple (I think both are 3/8 NPT).

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-804

 

I have this one as well on my '30.

[MCHinson]

I have done a bit of research on fog/driving lights and can't seem to find any reference to this particular B-L-C Model 2001P. B-L-C was a division of Guide in 1937. B-L-C lights were distributed in the Eastern US, so they would have been correct for dealer installed lights for Buicks in 1937 in the Eastern US. These are very similar to some Guide lights that were also described as Fog/Driving lights. The Guide installation instructions call for the high beam filaments to be wired to the high beam headlight circuit and the low beam filaments to be wired to a switch. The high beam filaments serve as Driving lights and the low beam filaments serve as fog lights. I have temporarily wired both filaments to a single switch wired to the headlight switch circuit breaker. At the moment, with both filaments illuminated along with the headlights, they are overloading the circuit breaker. I don't think I really want the driving lights on every time I turn the headlights on, so I will likely wire the driving lights circuit to one toggle switch, and the fog light circuit to another toggle switch. I will wire them through an added circuit breaker to prevent so much current flowing through the headlight switch circuit breaker. 

 

I also installed newly received 2530 bulbs in the headlights. The filaments on these are clearly not as uniform as the old stock bulbs. Luckily I bought a box of 10 of the bulbs so I could pick out the best looking 2 of them. They are brigher than the old stock bulbs but the lighting pattern, as shown in the photo is not quite as crisp as the old stock bulbs.      

[Matt Harwood]

Here's the setup I used on my '41. I used the taillights as power for the dash switch so that the fog lights would only come on when the taillights were on (meaning that turning off the headlights also turns off the fog lights). The fogs will work with either headlights or parking lights, as long as the taillights are on. Note that the wire from the taillight terminal on the headlight switch only draws a few milliamps--just enough to trigger the relay, so you won't be overwhelming any circuits.

 

 

Your fog lights having two elements per bulb might need two relays, or just use one relay which should have plenty of capacity to light them both simultaneously. I'd use 12-gauge wire between power and the relay (yellow), but everything else can be 14-gauge. If you want them separate, you'll need some kind of 3-position switch (or two toggles as you propose) and two relays, but the wiring should be more or less the same. I think you've already learned that running it all through the headlight switch won't work.

 

My Lincoln has a two-relay "box" that could work for your dual filament bulbs. I recently bought a spare one (just in case) on eBay, but if you want it, I'd be happy to send it to you.

 

  

[MCHinson]

It has been a while since I undated this, but I have resolved the fog/driving lights power. I checked the headlight relay that had been previouslly installed on the car that I removed when I installed the new wiring harness. It turned out that the old headlight relay was identical to the one that Matt Harwood found on his Lincoln. I also purchased a couple of NOS Ark-Les fog light switches on ebay. I installed one of the switches and used one of the circuits in the headlight relay to hook up the fog light circuit. I will probably run an additional wire and use the other switch and relay circuit to add the driving light function to the accessory lamps. 

 

Last night I drove the car to our local AACA chapter meeting. The meeting lasted until after dark and the headlights worked very effectiveliy. Since I had the car out after dark, I decided to test the fog lights to see if I was happy with how I had them aimed. Unfortunately, when I tested the fog lights I found one of them not working. I discovered that one of the original 2330 bulbs had burned out. I swapped one of the 2530 bulbs into the foglight and took a quick photo with the headlights and fog lights on.  

[MCHinson]

This morning I drove the 80C to our local Cars and Coffee. This afternoon, I wanted to do something totally unecessary, so I removed the aftermarket cigarette dispenser/lighter and installed a new wire to replace the original wire that had a few broken areas of insulation. I replaced the original wire with a short leftover section of wire that I had from the wiring harness installation and drew power from the original dash mounted cigarette lighter supply wire. The lighter element glows nicely when activated. I don't plan to take up smoking but thought it was neat to make that accessory work as designed.  

[MCHinson]

I recently decided it was time to tackle the gas gauge sending unit. I ran the tank down to about empty and dropped the fuel tank. This car only has 57,000 miles. This is the only 1937 or 1938 Buick that I have seen that still had the original insulation around the gas tank sending unit.  I removed the sending unit, drilled out the rivets, gently cleaned up the contacts with a small wire brush and reassembled the sending unit. The sending unit seems to be working properly when checked with an ohm meter so I reinstalled it. I installed the new gas gauge wiring from the new wiring harness and also added an extra ground wire to one of the sending unit mounting screws as a precaution. I then reinstalled the tank. I added about 7 gallons of gas to the tank and the fuel gauge showed a bit over 1/4 tank. With a 20 gallon gas tank that reading appears to be about correct, since the gas gauge is supposed to have a one gallon reserve left when it reads Empty, 

[Bloo]

I've not seen that pad before either. What is it made of?

 

I would have been in favor of changing those cork floats. I believe they were sealed in shellac originally, and the modern fuel dissolves the shellac. I used my old floats, which seemed fine, and after a few months they sunk. I don't regret it because the necessity of sealer on tank floats has been a hotly debated topic in the past around here, and I wanted to know whether it is necessary. I have Bob's Automobilia floats now. So far so good.

 

On another note, have you ever seen a factory sock filter on one of these? A sender posted by Gingerbread in another thread from a 1938 has a sock of a type I have not seen, and I wouldn't have expected it to be there at all.

 

 

 

[MCHinson]

I did not pay that much attention to the material that the insulation was made out of. I think it is similar to old carpet padding. The corks are working fine at the moment and I typically use only non-ethanol fuel, so for the moment, I am going to stick with the originals. I have never seen a Buick with a sock on the fuel sending unit. I saw that other post but that sending unit was reportedly found in a 1937 Pontiac. I don't know... but suspect it might have actually been a later sending unit that was installed in the Pontiac many years ago, but I don't have any experience with 1937 Pontiacs so it is just a guess on my part. I also notice that the pickup tube on that Pontiac sending unit is different from the 1937 Buick ones, which is why I think it is likely a later sending unit.

Edited October 12, 2021 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[DonMicheletti]

I have never seen a tank filer or screen in an old Buick.

Personally, I dont like the idea of an in tank filter. If it plugs you have to drop the tank to clean it and that is a PITA. Plus, if it does plug you have other more serious issues.

[Bloo]

To each his own.

 

The thing about a sock is that is is very difficult to plug. If enough crud does somehow manage to cover the whole sock, it will fall off when the car shuts down. If the crud is heavy, like iron (rust), or sand, it falls into the bottom of the tank under it's own weight and there is at least a chance it will never make it back up.

 

Another approach is to use an inline filter. In that case, anything that would have ever touched the sock winds up in the filter and you have to change that filter ALL THE TIME, usually at the side of the road when it plugs and the car cannot get enough fuel to stay running.

 

In about 1991 I saw a bench test of a sock with some water contaminated gasoline. The water separated from the gas and collected in tiny spheres that bounced off of the sock, while the gas came through the sock just fine. This interested me greatly because I was driving an old Studebaker to work that was constantly getting sidelined with water in the gas. It had no sock.

 

There are some very good reasons that nearly every car for the last 50 years or more left the factory with a sock.

 

Varnish will plug a sock, but if a tank is full of varnish it is time to pull it and clean it anyway.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[38Buick 80C]

I put a sock on my 80C and pulled it off quickly... Caused fuel starvation.

[DonMicheletti]

Dropping a tank to have to fix a plugged filter caused by coarse contaminants is a lot of work. Fixing the root cause of the poroblem is the correct answer.

A downstream, easily serviced filter, is the answer.

After about 65 years of driving all kinds of stuff. I have never had a starvation or contaminant problem due to stuff (some as old as from 1908) in the tank.  I guess I'm lucky.

[MCHinson]

On 12/5/2020 at 9:28 PM, MCHinson said:

You will recall that the car had 56,607 miles when I bought it earlier this week. Today, I had a chance to check out a small detail that I had not paid attention to previously. The driver's door has an oil change sticker on it. The mileage of the car at the time of that oil change was 55,869. The oil change was on 8-27-71. The car that I have put 30 miles on in the past 5 days, was only driven 738 miles in the past 49 years! 

 

December 1st will make 1 year that I have owned this 1937 Model 80C. I have quoted an earlier post because it documents the 56,607 miles odometer reading when I bought it. Today, I drove the car about 70 miles. First I attended a car show about 30 miles away from home. Tonight, I drove the car to take a fellow local AACA member's daughter and her new husband from their wedding reception to their lodging for the night.  When I got home, the odometer reading was 57,351 miles. In less than a year, I have driven the car 744 miles, slightly more than the total miles that car had been driven in the previous 49+ years.    

[MCHinson]

I have been enjoying my 1937 Model 80C and have not posted here in quite a while. At our monthly local cars and coffee and at local car shows, I like to play 40's music broadcast from my small AM transmitter through the original Buick radio. The music coming from an original 1937 radio amazes people. Since the tube type radio draws a bit of current, I decided to add a bit of an insurance policy. I had heard of others who ran two optima batteries in parallel on similar cars so I purchased another optima battery and some nice heavy duty 1 foot long battery cables. (I may have gone a bit overboard on the cable purchase but the 0000 cables are certainly not going to be a weak point in the system.) https://www.batterycablesusa.com/0000-gauge-awg-ul-battery-cable-with-ends 

[kgreen]

No current loss there!

[MCHinson]

I have not posted recently, but I continue to enjoy the car. On the way to a car show yesterday, the odometer rolled past 58,000 miles so I guess I have put a little bit over 1400 miles on it since December of 2020, an average of about 50 miles per month. That is typically trips to lunch or dinner, trips to local AACA meetings and other events. It doesn't get too many miles on it when my daily trip to lunch is less than a mile round trip. Next month, I plan to drive it to Charlotte to the AACA Nationals, so it will get about 400 miles on it that weekend. Later in April, I am hosting the 36-38 Buick Club tour, here in Wilmington, so it will get a few hundred more miles on it on the tour.

Edited March 26, 2023 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

This morning, I drove to our local Cars and Coffee. While there, this young man was having his mom take a photo of him standing in front of my 80C. I invited them to get a photo of him behind the steering wheel. He was very happy. 

[MCHinson]

I seldom think about updating this thread but in the past month, I drove the 80C to our local Cars and Coffee, a display at a local retirement home, a car show in Carolina Beach, about a 40 mile round trip, another car show which was a little bit over a 20 mile round trip, and yesterday a car show in Downtown Southport NC, along the Cape Fear River, which was about a 60 mile round trip.