Is there really a difference between 1961-64 and 1965-67 Cadillac wheels???

[what is it?]

they have always looked the same to me and they are always mixed up on just about all them old caddys (they have the year stamped in them) I wonder if the parts books just say they are different solely because they are 2 different generations of car.

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, what is it? said:

they have always looked the same to me and they are always mixed up on just about all them old caddys (they have the year stamped in them) I wonder if the parts books just say they are different solely because they are 2 different generations of car.

 

Have you ever measured the back spacing to make sure they are the same? Is the mounting edge of the rim the same between say a 61 and a 67?

 

 On other cars like VW and Porsche the stamping does make a difference to a purist. It can make a difference in judging.

[John348]

20 hours ago, what is it? said:

they have always looked the same to me and they are always mixed up on just about all them old caddys (they have the year stamped in them) I wonder if the parts books just say they are different solely because they are 2 different generations of car.

 

They would not do that, there has to be a difference, maybe provisions for securing wheel covers? or as Pfeil pointed out the offset on the back spacing. Was 67 the first year for front disc brakes? That would change the back space for sure.

[Pfeil]

7 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

They would not do that, there has to be a difference, maybe provisions for securing wheel covers? or as Pfeil pointed out the offset on the back spacing. Was 67 the first year for front disc brakes? That would change the back space for sure.

John, isn't there a difference on the wheels where radial tires were first offered?

[what is it?]

the 61-67 caddy wheels look like the on backwards even though they are on correctly. started in 61 and then went back to a regular gm looking wheel in 68. you can still put regular 5 inch gm wheels on just fine if you want too.

[rocketraider]

Would it have to do with those really deep dished wheelcovers Cadillac used back then?

 

I'd like to see a picture of the "backwards" wheel. Olds used something similar in 64-65 on their cast aluminum wheelcover option and wondering if Cad wheel is similar enough to substitute. There's tons of the bolt-on Olds wheelcovers but the wheels are scant.

 

Was Cadillac using 14 or 15 inch wheels in this timeframe?

[padgett]

Believe Caddy wheels of the period bolt circles were 5x5 (5x127) and not 5x4.75 (5x120.7).

GM wheels have a two digit code by the valve stem to identify wheels. ANY change, even a paint shade, would change the part number and code.

Back in the day had 15x7s on my autocrossing Gran Sport,  now like 15x8" snowflakes.

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

Would it have to do with those really deep dished wheelcovers Cadillac used back then?

 

I'd like to see a picture of the "backwards" wheel. Olds used something similar in 64-65 on their cast aluminum wheelcover option and wondering if Cad wheel is similar enough to substitute. There's tons of the bolt-on Olds wheelcovers but the wheels are scant.

 

Was Cadillac using 14 or 15 inch wheels in this timeframe?

Wheel/ tire size 61 Cadillac;

755 / 29.7

 

Standard tire size:	8.20 - 15
Tire width (mm):	208
Tire sidewall factor:	90
Rim size (in):	15
Total wheel diameter (mm / in):	755 / 29.7

Wheel/tire size 1967 Cadillac:

746 / 29.4

 

Standard tire size:	9.00 - 15
Tire width (mm):	228
Tire sidewall factor:	80
Rim size (in):	15
Total wheel diameter (mm / in):	746 / 29.4

[padgett]

Mentioned that it must be a 5x5 bolt circle.

[Pfeil]

21 minutes ago, padgett said:

Mentioned that it must be a 5x5 bolt circle.

 

Just thought I'd mention that GM used left hand threads on the left side of the car in those years. My 62 & 63 Pontiac's are that way. You can always tell the end of the lug has a "L" stamped in it. Could not find a GM picture, but this is Ford. You get the idea though, it's stamped in the middle of the stud.

  

I had a 1971 Pontiac Grandville and by that time G.M. had switched to all right hand threads

[what is it?]

tire size and wheel size are 2 different things. they are all 15x6 wheels

[padgett]

I give up, you will get the chiropodic bill in the morning.

 

 

[John348]

On 10/7/2020 at 11:58 PM, Pfeil said:

John, isn't there a difference on the wheels where radial tires were first offered?

 

There is but I don't think GM offered Radial Tires to until the late 60's early 70's. I think it is disc brake related

[padgett]

AFAIR the 69 Lincoln Continental Mk III was the first production car that had radials standard. Radials were common in Europe but not

in the larger sizes needed by GALBs.

 

I found a reference that the wheel disk mounting area is smaller on 65-67 than 61-64 and a 61-64 hubcap won't fit a 65-67.

[Pfeil]

23 hours ago, padgett said:

Believe Caddy wheels of the period bolt circles were 5x5 (5x127) and not 5x4.75 (5x120.7).

GM wheels have a two digit code by the valve stem to identify wheels. ANY change, even a paint shade, would change the part number and code.

Back in the day had 15x7s on my autocrossing Gran Sport,  now like 15x8" snowflakes.

Padgett, you should know Cadillac didn't offer a hub cap in the years we are discussing. Hub caps only cover the exposed portion of the  hub. Wheel covers expose to the beginning of the wheel lip and full wheel covers cover the wheel like the years we are discussing. Hub caps are sometimes called poverty caps.

[padgett]

To me the things I see spinning off many times in Bullitt are "hub caps" regardless of size. "Full wheel covers" are for catalogs. Right now only my Allantes have hub caps.

[Pfeil]

On 10/9/2020 at 8:23 AM, padgett said:

To me the things I see spinning off many times in Bullitt are "hub caps" regardless of size. "Full wheel covers" are for catalogs. Right now only my Allantes have hub caps.

 

Center cap;

 

Hub/ poverty cap;

HUB cap with trim ring

Center cap with full trim ring

hub cap with full trim ring

 

wheel cover;

        FULL wheel cover;

Edited October 10, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[padgett]

You left off "dog dishes".

 

My favorite GM-ese was "Chromed Styling Panel" (bumper)

[Pfeil]

1 minute ago, padgett said:

You left off "dog dishes".

 

My favorite GM-ese was "Chromed Styling Panel" (bumper)

 The hub cap above has couple  of nicknames like poverty cap or dog dish. wasn't left out.

[Frank DuVal]

On 10/8/2020 at 11:54 AM, Pfeil said:

Just thought I'd mention that GM used left hand threads on the left side of the car in those years.

 

???

 

Not in Chevrolet! Nor any other GM car I worked on. Interesting that your Pontiacs had them. Chrysler, yes, seen them. Studebaker, yes, seen them. Haven't seen a Foord with them either. But they must be out there. Just goes to show I have not worked on every car!😄

 

Hey, isn't that thing covering the outer wheel bearing a Hub Cap? Oh, right, Grease Cap.😉

[rocketraider]

Olds used LH lugnut thread thru 1963 on the full size cars. Not sure on F85.

[Jim Skelly]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

Olds used LH lugnut thread thru 1963 on the full size cars. Not sure on F85.

so did Buick

[Jim Skelly]

21 hours ago, Pfeil said:

 

Center cap;

 

Hub/ poverty cap;

HUB cap with trim ring

Center cap with full trim ring

hub cap with full trim ring

 

HUB cap;

        FULL HUB CAP;

 the last two are wheelcovers - not hubcaps

[Jim Skelly]

On 10/9/2020 at 12:58 AM, John348 said:

 

There is but I don't think GM offered Radial Tires to until the late 60's early 70's. I think it is disc brake related

As I recall, radial tires were optional starting in 1972 on Cadillac (and possibly other GM cars)

[padgett]

I had dog bone Dunlops on my 70 Buick GS from the dealer. No way I wanted bias-belted. GM started disk brakes on the Corvette in 1965 (best year IMNSHO since FI was also available) and pretty much optional across the line in 1967 (my '67 Camaro had them). Stock wheels did have clearance issues on the calipers. The early 67 Z-28s (no external identification which was a giveaway) I saw at Sebring all had 4 wheel disks and the Green Sheets Vince Piggins used to send out had a section on them.

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

 the last two are wheelcovers - not hubcaps

You are absolutely correct, the 59 Pontiac super deluxe tri-bar spinner is a "wheel cover", and the 62 Cadillac is a "Full wheel cover". 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

As I recall, radial tires were optional starting in 1972 on Cadillac (and possibly other GM cars)

According to the Authenticity Manual Class 25 - 1971 - 1976 Cadillac (excluding Eldorado and Seville) Standard tires for 1971- 1974 were fiberglass-belted bias ply blackwall tires. Most however chose the dual banded whitewall tire option. In early 1972 steel-belted radials became a factory option on the Brougham and Eldorado. These radials had a rather narrow single whitewall. Radials were a popular option for 1972 - 1974 with the single narrow whitewall. Steel-belted whitewall radials are standard equipment for 1975 and 1976. There was a shortage in 1976 of available tires from Cadillac suppliers and after May 17, 1976 through the remainder of the year models were shipped with no spare. ( The valve stem, wheel and jack were supplied) When enough tires became available, the spares were shipped to dealers and retrofitted. 

[padgett]

"fiberglass-belted bias ply " GMese ? Most knew those disasters as "bias-belted".

[Jim Skelly]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

"fiberglass-belted bias ply " GMese ? Most knew those disasters as "bias-belted".

The real disasters were the early steel-belted radial tires.  I was working at Consolidated Freightways in Romulus (suburb of Detroit where the big airport is) in the Summer of 1977.  We had a few days one week of temps slightly over 100, which is quite rare here, and I had a trailer full of defective Uniroyal radials to unload.  The steel strands were sticking out every which way, and they were quite sharp.  I thought the delivery should have gone to the Uniroyal plant next to the Belle Isle bridge in Detroit where Olds Motor Works had been before it burned to the ground.  Maybe Uniroyal planned to take a sampling and send the rest to a local dump a few miles away. 

 

There was also the disastrous Firestone 500, one of which blew up on my brother's car, damaging the hood and one fender.  I was visiting him several days later and the front suspension and steering wheel started shaking violently as I drove down a Houston expressway.  I pulled over, looked the car over, and resumed driving slowly in the lane closest to the exit.  As the car gained a little speed, it started happening again.  I pulled over onto the shoulder again and as I was standing several feet back looking at the passenger front tire, it blew up!  

 

Reliability improved substantially a few years later, and I think they have been very good since then. 

[padgett]

My '78 Sunbird came with Firestone 500s, B70x13s & both rears came apart about 300 miles from home. Then there was the Brigestone disaster in the '90s. Firestone and Bridgestone have been the same company since 1988.

 

Any more I buy either BFGs or Michelins (also the same company).

 

And on the other hand just found a spare in the garage with an interesting date. Worn but looks fine. Dunno how long I've had it prolly bought for the snowflake. Is a REGUL Pacesetter, made by Goodrich in Kitchner, Ontario (BH)

 

ps just watched a rerun of CCC and Wayne & his fanatic companion both referred to a full wheel cover as a "hub cap". May be an east coast thing.

 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

The real disasters were the early steel-belted radial tires.  I was working at Consolidated Freightways in Romulus (suburb of Detroit where the big airport is) in the Summer of 1977.  We had a few days one week of temps slightly over 100, which is quite rare here, and I had a trailer full of defective Uniroyal radials to unload.  The steel strands were sticking out every which way, and they were quite sharp.  I thought the delivery should have gone to the Uniroyal plant next to the Belle Isle bridge in Detroit where Olds Motor Works had been before it burned to the ground.  Maybe Uniroyal planned to take a sampling and send the rest to a local dump a few miles away. 

 

There was also the disastrous Firestone 500, one of which blew up on my brother's car, damaging the hood and one fender.  I was visiting him several days later and the front suspension and steering wheel started shaking violently as I drove down a Houston expressway.  I pulled over, looked the car over, and resumed driving slowly in the lane closest to the exit.  As the car gained a little speed, it started happening again.  I pulled over onto the shoulder again and as I was standing several feet back looking at the passenger front tire, it blew up!  

 

Reliability improved substantially a few years later, and I think they have been very good since then. 

 

I had a set of Firestone 500's, never had a problem with them, Received a recall notice and they put a free set of Firestone 721's on my car. The 721's threw their treads right off.  Great!