Dreyfuss Car

[Caroline Brown]

 

Can anyone identify this car and the year of its manufacture? This is my grandfather Sol Dreyfuss, posing in front of his car sometime in, I suppose, the twenties or early thirties ??   Mr. Dreyfuss was a prominent businessman in Dallas, Texas, in the early decades of the twentieth century and I would love to know when this photo was taken and what car that is.  Thanks to any who can help

[keiser31]

Packard. Not sure of model or year. Possibly a 1929 Model 640 phaeton.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[jrbartlett]

Yes, you nailed it. Interestingly, there is a beautiful '29 Model 640 phaeton in Dallas now.

[Marty Roth]

Caroline, Welcome to the AACA FORUM.

I agree with the above assessments, and will also be sending you a private message (PM) by email via the AACA FORUM.

Our 1930 Packard is an excellent tour car and has given us many thousands of miles of pleasure as we tour the country.

I have sent you a private message (PM) by email via the AACA FORUM per a different topic.

[58L-Y8]

Your grandfather must have been a very successful businessman, his 1929 Packard Custom Eight Model 640 five passenger phaeton was $3,175 new.  Compare this to the most popular low-priced phaetons, Ford $460; Chevrolet $525; Plymouth $695 that most people would have bought new.   His 1929 Packard phaeton is a highly desirable collector car now.   

[Walt G]

It is hard for people now to really understand what the difference in cost was in the pre WWII era was for most things. The cost of that Packard phaeton when new would have bought a really nice  house in the same era in the best area of town. I , like Marty have a Packard touring car ( we both own the exact same model, year, series) and when I mention to local people ( who aren't old car owners) what the car cost new ( I never mention todays value- they wouldn't understand what it costs just to restore it to the level it is) . They react a way that says "gee thats very cheap" I also mention the cost of a new house here in town at the time was the same or less money and then say - think of what that house would sell for now , would you have that kind of $ to go out and buy a car today?  I just usually get a bewildered look. They don't get mad at me as I am the local historian for the history of the village and I usually add " I am just trying to put things in perspective - in the same era a three course meal was $1.50 , if you had a telephone in your house you had to ask the operator to get the number of the person who you wanted to call because the phone had no buttons or dial, and records were played on a photograph that usually had a horn and you had to crank the spring inside to make it work to play black brittle records that were 78 rpm.

[Mark Wetherbee]

Walt is spot on with that line of reasoning. Several locals have seen my 31 Pierce Arrow in the garage as I work On it, and when I tell them something that compares the cost of that car new to the economic conditions in 1931 they just have a blank look. 
 

The owner of any similar Packard, obviously including your grandfather, was exceptionally well off as the depression was just beginning. That depression continued to worsen and would eventually kill off the Pierce-Arrow corporation as well as several other car companies. 

[Walt G]

To put it in perspective even further the Ford was $460 the Packard $3175 that means you could have bought SIX new Fords and had $ left over for the price of that one Packard!!!!

Most people weren't making per year what the Packard cost new.

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

".... They react a way that says "gee thats very cheap" I also mention the cost of a new house here in town at the time was the same or less money"..."I am just trying to put things in perspective"

In my best Groucho Marx voice "Walt, you just said the secret woid!  Perspective!   That's what I think is a useful endeavor to impart when a person post a period photo of an expensive car back then.  Its likely most have little perspective how relatively expensive certain makes were relative to the general market of available cars and major purchases such as homes for the large society.  

[Caroline Brown]

How very kind of everyone to respond so quickly and so positively!  I couldn't be more delighted. I loved seeing the full color shot of the '29 Packard Phaeton. Beautiful! Thank you, keiser31. I have no idea what color my grandfather's car was, so seeing the color shot was terrific and brings it alive. And to 58L-YB, and to Walt, I loved seeing the information about the comparative values of the phaeton cars then. I, too, am a historian and love that kind of detail. Very thoughtful of you all to post such great information.

I have precious few photos of my grandfather and I've always wondered what that car was and when the photo was made. Sol was the owner of a department store in downtown Dallas that was founded in 1910 with his father Gerard and lasted for most of the twentieth century. The store was across the street from Stanley Marcus's Neiman Marcus and near several other Dallas department stores like Sanger's, Titche-Goettinger, Neiman's and several others. Those men were all Sol's friends and of course, they're all gone now. Sol was a much beloved entrepreneur and philanthropist in Dallas, in a time that is long gone. Thanks to you all for helping me remember him.

 

And I wish I had that car! I have no idea what became of it.

[Caroline Brown]

14 hours ago, jrbartlett said:

Yes, you nailed it. Interestingly, there is a beautiful '29 Model 640 phaeton in Dallas now.

Interesting!  How does one see a photo of it?  I wonder if it's my grandfather's car. Surely that car is still around somewhere......

[jrbartlett]

Here you go. Unlikely to be your grandfather's car, as this one has a dual cowl with the second windshield mounted on top of it, which is different from the tonneau windshield that is mounted to the rear of the front seat on your grandfather's car. But at least this gives an idea of what these cars looked like in light colors when new. And yes, they were big cars, intended for the wealthy.

 

  

[Caroline Brown]

Oh my gosh. That is just amazing to see. Wow. What a gorgeous vehicle. Now I'm REALLY mad that Papa didn't keep that car. I wish I knew what happened to it. Knowing him, he probably gave it away. Love the whitewalls.

 

[Caroline Brown]

5 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

There was quite a lot about him in the Texas newspapers through the years.  Sounds like he led an interesting life.

 

https://dallasgateway.com/dreyfuss-son-co/

 

5 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

 

 

 

Sol owned a large department store and also owned a minor league baseball team in Dallas at one time - I believe it was the Dallas Athletics. He was a great booster of Dallas and an early civic leader and  leading businessman, founder with his father of a large department store called Dreyfuss and Son and a much beloved philanthropist in the early decades of the last century. He left us too soon and is sorely missed.

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Caroline Brown (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

It wasn't my intention to cause trouble.  It was stuff published in public newspapers that was available to be read by anybody back then just as it is today.  Interesting people get researched here and he sounded like a fine and interesting person worth reading about.  I've deleted my attachments, but I can't do anything about what you've duplicated in your own post.  I'll move along now.  Good luck to you.  

[Caroline Brown]

Thank you.

[Caroline Brown]

5 hours ago, jrbartlett said:

Here you go. Unlikely to be your grandfather's car, as this one has a dual cowl with the second windshield mounted on top of it, which is different from the tonneau windshield that is mounted to the rear of the front seat on your grandfather's car. But at least this gives an idea of what these cars looked like in light colors when new. And yes, they were big cars, intended for the wealthy.

 

  

Zowie. Now that's a car.

[8E45E]

On 6/8/2020 at 6:18 PM, W_Higgins said:

It wasn't my intention to cause trouble.  It was stuff published in public newspapers that was available to be read by anybody back then just as it is today.  Interesting people get researched here and he sounded like a fine and interesting person worth reading about.  I've deleted my attachments, but I can't do anything about what you've duplicated in your own post.  I'll move along now.  Good luck to you.  

 

Almost ALL the buyers of this caliber of cars at the time were prominent people either within their own community and sometimes nationally, and it would not be uncommon to read about them in the local newspaper. 

 

Whether the offspring of these individuals have an interest of what their ancestors did before they were born is a personal decision, but one cannot rewrite history.  The inquiry here shows she IS obviously interested in her family's past.

 

Craig

[aehanson]

Caroline:

 

I am writing a Historical/Genealogical biographical article about Sol Dreyfus and his association with Dreyfus Point at White Rock Lake. I have discovered quite a lot about your family history and would be happy to share what I have learned with you if you are interested. 

 

Tony Hanson

Dallas Texas

Edited October 31, 2020 by aehanson (see edit history)