Wheel balance, I think

[The Caponemobile]

After several months of me being restored, I am back to my 1930 Chrysler Model 77 Sedan.  It has various problems perhaps from too much rest.  Of immediate concern is balance of at least one wheel.  The last time I drove the car it suddenly broke into a front end shimmy at about thirty miles an hour.  It did it a couple of times, and I was able to stop it by swinging the wheels to the left or right suddenly, then resuming my direction.  Over the winter I discovered that the right front wheel had a flat tire.  The filler valve was canted to about  thirty degree angle, and I assume the tire and tube must have shifted during the shimmying.  I also assume that the tube is leaking at the valve.  (I will find out tomorrow when the wheel will be removed.)  In the mean time the leak is extremely slow, because the tire will stay at about forty pounds for two or three weeks at a time while just sitting, fyi.

The car was inspected shortly before the shimmying incident, passed inspection, and from that I assume that the bearings, tie rod ends, and other parts of the front end are free of play.  I will learn more about that tomorrow when the front of the car will be jacked up.  At this point my suspicion is that the problem is wheel balance.  With wooden wheels and demountable rims, as is the case with my Chrysler, I have no idea what is involved with balancing wheels. Will I need to pull the wheels, and balance all as a single assembly, or can the rims and tires be balanced separately  - - - - and, of course how?   I would appreciate any advice, suggestions, or reports of experience available from my friends on this list.   Thanks for any help.

[keiser31]

Sounds like an alignment is in order. My '31 had the "death wobble" so I took it to the local alignment shop. They took out the extra shims that were on the front axle and brought it to original angle with a shim on each spring mount. End of wobble.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, The Caponemobile said:

The car was inspected shortly before the shimmying incident, passed inspection, and from that I assume that the bearings, tie rod ends, and other parts of the front end are free of play.

An inspection (probably government or motor vehicle) has nothing to do with alignment.  Normally they just check for pieces about to fall off.  A safety inspection only means that at that specific moment it is safe.  While working in an automobile dealership I/we saw many vehicles that passed an inspection and several days later were in accidents caused by something breaking.

[Spinneyhill]

As Keiser31 says, the wedges under the axle, on the springs, are the key. They set the castor.

[Guest]

Correct camber is important.

[FLYER15015]

Were it mine, I would start at the outer tie rod ends and then the inners and then the drag link (both ends) and verify that all is tight.

Then I would check the steering sector @ the steering wheel and verify all is tight.

 

BETCHA it's tie rod ends...........

 

Ask me how I know.

 

Mike in Colorado

[The Caponemobile]

Thanks for the good ideas.  I will report back.

 

[broker-len]

On my 32 Plymouth    after redoing the front I did the to in to out as per google instructions  did not worry about caster camber   rides great

[skyler]

54 Chrysler may not be similar, but on my new Yorker the drag link was the culprit for the death wobble.  capt den

[Tim Wolfe]

My steering linkage was very loose after it was restored and had a death wobble when a bump was hit. I tightened up the linkage and then backed it off approx. 1/8th turn. Then I put ceramic balance beads inside the tire as recommended by the company I bought them from. I had a local shop align the front end. It drives great now without any vibration. You can do a web search on balance beads and how they work. They worked great for me.

[Spinneyhill]

Mr Wolfe, did you do these things one at a time with a decent test in between? If you did more than one thing when you installed the beads in the tire, we can't tell which action(s) fixed the vibration.

 

I still think these beads are a crock. One would need a lot of them to make up one small lead weight.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Tim Wolfe]

Have you any experience or done any research on balancing?  I corrected the steering and had the front end aligned and had vibration. I then added the balance beads and it eliminated he vibration. I was in charge of balancing flywheels in heavy industry. We dynamically balanced flywheels that weighed up to 20,000 lbs. Dynamic balancing if far better than static balancing a wheel. I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

[ply33]

12 minutes ago, Tim Wolfe said:

. . .  I corrected the steering and had the front end aligned and had vibration. I then added the balance beads and it eliminated he vibration. . .

 

I've had the same doubts about balance beads as Spinneyhill. But you have just answered the question: The issue persisted after addressing the steering and front end alignment but went away after adding the beads.

 

Thank you for the clarification!

[Spinneyhill]

Yes, thank you for the clarification.

 

It seems you are correct, they work. In SOME circumstances. My reading finds they work in the vertical plane only. They do not work for out of plane or lateral imbalance. A traditional balance machine is required for that: weights are placed on vehicle side and air side of a wheel for this purpose.

 

So what size are these beads? Microbeads? What happens to them in the environment? Remember "micro-beads" in cosmetics etc.? They are EVERYWHERE and have been banned. These beads will inevitably wear smaller and be emptied into the environment. So are they better than lead weights? Hmmm.

[Tim Wolfe]

Google Counteract balance beads or Dyna Beads.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Tim Wolfe said:

Google Counteract balance beads or Dyna Beads.

 

Been there, done that. I'd rather hear from someone like you who has tried them.

 

With respect to Spinneyhill's comment about dynamic vs static (vertical plane) balancing: I think that for most pre-WW2 cars, vertical plane (static) balancing is all that is needed. Newer cars with much fatter tires/rims have more issues with lateral (dynamic) balancing. At least that is my impression trying to dredge up the remains of my old college statics and dynamics classes. I've found on my '33 that static balancing the tires using a borrowed 1950s era professional bubble balancer made a world of difference. Unfortunately I've lost access to that tool so I'll need to figure out something else for my next set of tires, thus my interest in this topic.

[Tim Wolfe]

You are correct, the wider the tire- the more the dynamic balancer is needed. The older narrow tires worked well with the static ( bubble ) balancing method. I static balanced a 6" x 42" flywheel on a static balancer. I dynamic balanced it and was way out of balance--it wanted to wobble. When the balance beads are used, it also takes into consideration of all the rotating parts. Brake drums and all. Glad to hear or see that someone understands this. But, do watch the demonstration about Dyno Beads on the web site. It is very interesting. Enough on this subject !