Crazyfamily Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) Ok so I don’t have any of the capanion guides or shop manual books for my 1927 Standard Six yet. However I need to remove the carburetor and the heat exchanger tube that houses the throttle butterfly (please for give me but that’s what I’m going to call it since I don’t know the proper term) that houses the carb heater control system..... I AM retaining the Carb heat control weather usable today or not as I am leaving the car as it came from the factory!! does anyone know of a write up or procedure on removing the carb in the easiest manor possible? I am afraid I am going to end up taking more apart than what’s really needed since I am uneducated in this process!! Any advice is greatly appreciated, by next weekend the newly built fuel tank will be lined, Coates inside and out, reinstalled into the car as will the newly rebuilt Stewart Warner Vacuum Fuel Pump! id like to remove the carb and the heat exchanger tube as I call it that houses the throttle butterfly so I can clean and rebuild it, as soon as this is done I am planning on filling all the fluids and HOPEFULLY start the car!! again I greatly appreciate any advice on this process!! William Edited February 25, 2019 by Crazyfamily (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) William, This is the Marvel carburetor rebuilding procedure. Sorry 15 screen shots. There must be a better way. I will post info on removing the exhaust heat valve in the next posting. Hugh Edited May 31, 2021 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) This is how to remove the exhaust heat butterfly valve. Hugh Edited February 26, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Awesome info Hugh! Any info on easiest way to remove the carb or is it best to remove the entire intake all the way down to the carb in one step then remove the carb from the heating tube to rebuild the carb? the removal of the carb in the easiest manor is what I am confused at?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) In my photos, the carburetor is black and the throttle section above it is green. The easiest thing is to remove the 2 bolts on the top side of the carburetor body that holds it to the throttle body. I did not touch the throttle anyway. I did remove the throttle section, but that was to install the heat blanking plates. Just go easy on the bolts. I broke 1 or 2, and I should have used heat on the throttle body to prevent shearing the bolts off. When you reinstall them, use never seize. Edited February 25, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The original steel tube inside the heat riser is prone to corrosion due to moisture in the exhaust on start-up and heat cycling. I always recommend replacing this tube with aluminized exhaust tubing you can get from most muffler shops (check their cut off bin). Muffler shops can expand slightly smaller tubing to fit in the cast iron heat riser. Just be careful to bevel the end and lube the tube before installation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Mark, I added your note into my document because these are the pitfalls that people need to know about, as well as how to make the fixes easier. My plan was to start my car and check the vacuum gauge to see if it looked normal. My tube looked good, but it is possible that there are holes in my tubing as it is difficult to check the condition of the inner tubing. Hugh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Great info gentlemen, I appreciate it! the reason I mentioned removing the heat riser, my throttle is stuck in place and I was guessing the issue was corrosion in the heat riser but seeing how the throttle butterfly linkage is tied into the heat control maybe it not moving is an issue elsewhere?! ill remove the carb (fingers crossed no broken bolts!!) then disconnect the linkage to try to isolate the issue! also Bob’s carry the graphite packing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said: Mark, I added your note into my document because these are the pitfalls that people need to know about, as well as how to make the fixes easier. My plan was to start my car and check the vacuum gauge to see if it looked normal. My tube looked good, but it is possible that there are holes in my tubing as it is difficult to check the condition of the inner tubing. Hugh Hugh, Remove the heat riser and shine a bright light through the side openings and look for pin holes through the top & bottom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 William, It looks like Home Depot has the graphite packing, Hugh https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-3-32-in-x-24-in-Graphite-Valve-Stem-Packing-80793/203193511 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Mark Shaw said: Hugh, Remove the heat riser and shine a bright light through the side openings and look for pin holes through the top & bottom. For the record. Mark Shaw is the only person I have known of to walk into a muffler shop and find the correct size tubing for the heat riser. Must be his clean living! The Master and Standards are different sizes. Every muffler shop in our tristate area had nothing even close. Tony Bult said that they get a tubing close and then have to machine it. I had made gaskets and a plate for the rear exhaust port and the plugged the tapped holes that went into the chamber surrounding the tube. Turning the unit upside down I filled the outer chamber with water to check for leaks. None. The spare engine I bought had the heat riser burned out near the top. As to removing the carb. I had removed the 2 bolts that hold the carb proper to the heat riser. It is just that there are so many cotter pins to remove from the choke rod, the heat damper plate rod, the tiny metering pin plate pin, disconnecting the fuel line etc. If the 1 1/4" heat transfer tube to the exhaust damper valve is still with its original collar and packing it may be a bit more difficult to remove. For me that was the easiest way of getting the cab off and on. But again if you need to check the internals on the heat riser then by all means remove it from the manifold. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, dibarlaw said: For the record. Mark Shaw is the only person I have known of to walk into a muffler shop and find the correct size tubing for the heat riser. Must be his clean living! The Master and Standards are different sizes. Every muffler shop in our tristate area had nothing even close. Tony Bult said that they get a tubing close and then have to machine it. I had made gaskets and a plate for the rear exhaust port and the plugged the tapped holes that went into the chamber surrounding the tube. Turning the unit upside down I filled the outer chamber with water to check for leaks. None. The spare engine I bought had the heat riser burned out near the top. As to removing the carb. I had removed the 2 bolts that hold the carb proper to the heat riser. It is just that there are so many cotter pins to remove from the choke rod, the heat damper plate rod, the tiny metering pin plate pin, disconnecting the fuel line etc. If the 1 1/4" heat transfer tube to the exhaust damper valve is still with its original collar and packing it may be a bit more difficult to remove. For me that was the easiest way of getting the cab off and on. But again if you need to check the internals on the heat riser then by all means remove it from the manifold. Great info and advice!! Let me ask you, is it easier to just remove the entire intake, heat riser, and carb in one piece or leave the intake and just remove the heat riser and carb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) If the manifold gaskets are not leaking I would just pull the heat riser and down. Only 4 bolts. If the exhaust damper is in the open position leave it open. If you pull the manifolds they should be resurfaced. Edited February 25, 2019 by dibarlaw (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Great comments Larry. I added your notes into my procedure. I wish I had surfaced my manifold, but I already had it high temp powder coated. I am going to see how it goes, but it may come off later as I can tell in one spot that it would have been nice to have it surfaced. At the time, I thought resurfacing would only be needed for the 8 cylinder manifold, but mine would have been improved with a resurface. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 23 hours ago, Mark Shaw said: Muffler shops can expand slightly smaller tubing to fit in the cast iron heat riser. Just be careful to bevel the end and lube the tube before installation. Larry, Because not everyone can be as lucky as I was, I did suggest that slightly smaller tubing can be expanded to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Ok so if I understand it correctly, if I assume the intake is ok, then pull all the clips that hold on the various linkages to the throttle butterfly in the heat riser such then unbolt the heat riser and carb and they will pull away from the two pipes Brininging in heated air from the exhaust? and on the backside of the heat riser where Hugh you showed the pin holes in the inner pipe, that connection must use very short bolts if they can be removed without their heads running into the side of the engine block when removing them to remove the heat riser and down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Yes, the 2 bolts on the back side of the heat riser are short enough that they can be removed if you leave the exhaust manifold in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Thanks so much, I am going to give the four bolts on the heat riser and carb a few squirts of lube juice (rust penetrant) and then heat from torch and then try to not break anything!! i will do it this weekend when I line and paint new gas tank and rebuilt vacuum fuel pump! who has the best carb rebuild kit for the ‘27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 hours ago, Crazyfamily said: Thanks so much, I am going to give the four bolts on the heat riser and carb a few squirts of lube juice (rust penetrant) and then heat from torch and then try to not break anything!! On a car with a wood framed body especially, with an engine that loves to leak oil, and using lube juice, on the fuel side of the engine, I would avoid any use of a torch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The nuts that hold the carb on are brass. They won't need a torch, but don't use an "open end" wrench because the nuts are too soft. Use the box end of the wrench or a socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I made a video when I rebuilt my Marvel carb and vacuum tank last year. Hope it helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLsSHMRREw&t=390s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 awesome info, Morgan I actually just watched your carb videos a few days. Thanks for sharing them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Great news I got the carb off but after trying to gently persuade the throttle butterfly to break lose but no go! So I'll be returning to the car to just remove the heat riser this weekend So, who carries the best all around rebuild kit for the 1927 Marvel Carb? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Here are some numbers off the side of it: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) Ok so to those in the know on this carb, I guess I should start disassembling it do to its individual pieces or should I start by a good soak in a gallon of carb dip? Does anyone make the "must have" rebuild kit for this carb? I would guess that some kits are better than others so any advice on the subject would again be GREATLY AND I MEAN GREATLY appreciated! Edited April 3, 2019 by Crazyfamily (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Remove the float and the metering pin packing, and then you can stick that entire brass section in carb cleaner. Be careful not to damage the jets. If you stick the black painted section in the carb cleaner it will remove all the paint. There is no fuel in the painted section, so there is no reason to put it in carb cleaner. How does the venturi block and the base of the air valve look? Will the air valve lay against the side wall or is the venturi block grown and preventing this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said: Remove the float and the metering pin packing, and then you can stick that entire brass section in carb cleaner. Be careful not to damage the jets. If you stick the black painted section in the carb cleaner it will remove all the paint. There is no fuel in the painted section, so there is no reason to put it in carb cleaner. How does the venturi block and the base of the air valve look? Will the air valve lay against the side wall or is the venturi block grown and preventing this? Ill start art breaking the carb down for a soak of the brass section tonight when I get home from work. Ill also take a close look at the Venturi block and air valve and report back tonight as well Hugh. i was able to break the bolts lose on the heat riser yesterday however I didn’t have a wrench that laid at the correct angle to remove them and could only get bite on the bolts and the wrench only gave me about 1/8 of an inch movement before I would have to TRY reposition myself and the wrench! There isn’t a whole love of room in the area that’s for sure!!!! im going to soak the hell out of the heat riser in metal rescue because the throttle butterfly/valve in the heat riser isn’t budging that’s for sure!!!! That thing is stuck solid!!!!!! anyone else have this issue and if so any tricks to breaking that thing loose??? Hugh who carries a rebuild kit or the right gaskets for this carb? I haven’t seen anyone share that info yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Ok so I had a few min before work to at least take the bowl cover off, take the cork float out which to me looks like when the prev owners restored this car that he replaced it. By the looks of it I highly doubt it’s 92 years old..... or at least I highly doubt this cork has been in the car for 92 years!! Hugh the air valve looks to lay flat and true to the body of the carb as well as to the Venturi block. I am starting to understand a little more of the workings of the carb, I did take your advice and got the Marvel Carb booklet from Bob’s as well as the 1927-1928 Shop Manual and a reprint of the 1927 Reference Book, I have an original one but about 1/4 of it has been eaten by a critter! let me know what you all think of these, do you see anything alarming besides crud? im going to take the Black Body apart from the brass section, clean the black portion and the carb dip the brass bowl section at least overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 That carb looks good. Does not look like you need to do anything with the air valve and the venturi. Looks like someone may have reshellaced the float. Optional if you want to put a nitrophyl float in. That one looks pretty good. Do you have the special air valve spring? If it were me, I would just clean it all up and reassemble it. The marvel book is pretty helpful for understanding the operation. I could not find anyone that supplied any parts other than the float. I just made new gaskets from 1/64 paper. One for the float cover and one between the body and the brass. Clean the screen too. Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 This one Hugh? ok sounds good, I thought it looked pretty good as well, the packing you mentioned to remove before using carb soak does Bob’s anyone sell that or do I reuse what I have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The spring looks good. The packing for the metering pin is felt. I think the main purpose here is to keep out dirt. The 3/32 graphite packing for around the needle valve is available at many hardware stores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Perfect.... another question, don’t worry there will be plenty more I’m sure, the top of the float bowl there is a spring loaded little pressure relief knob of some sort, what is it for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 And the adjustment of the air valve, float, and any other adjustments...... is there a starting point for adjustment or just go by the shop manual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The spring and pin on the top of the float cover will bump the float, allowing more gas in the carburetor for a temporary rich mixture by raising the fuel level in the float bowl. The marvel book tells how to adjust the air valve and the needle valve.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I ordered a rebuild kit for my 1922 Marvel Carb from "The Carburetor Shop LLC". I think he said 10-12 week backlog however as the kits are custom made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said: I ordered a rebuild kit for my 1922 Marvel Carb from "The Carburetor Shop LLC". I think he said 10-12 week backlog however as the kits are custom made. What comes in a kit that has that long of a lead time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Maybe he's just backed up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 46 minutes ago, 27donb said: What comes in a kit that has that long of a lead time? I am am wondering that as well, and wondering do I even need a kit? Looks like from what I can tell and from what Hugh posted that maybe I should just clean the carb and put it back together??? id be interested in what’s in the actual kit besides a few gaskets, I don’t mind cutting my own if need be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 look on their web page to see but I do know it comes with a new float and jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 I looked on their site and it does show they offer a lot, I’ll give them a call tomorrow and find out what exactly is in the kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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