Engine, Fix or Dump?

[mike6024]

Here's what the other thread said in summary form. Apparently compression was the same in all cylinders.? 145 is not that good though, I don't think.

 

"So, I took the Seville to a shop today that has been in business since the 50's they got the old dodge up and running, etc., they took the Seville apart and drumroll....... Camshaft lobe on Cylinder #2 is worn down! He wont do the work there but gave me the information of two places who would. So what kind of part should I be buying and looking for? "

 

"So, estimate is $950 for cam, lifters and gaskets and labor."

 

"Yes I do remember, but I would not even know what to look for, also a bunch of stuff had to come off the top, it took him most of the day. "

 

"So camshaft and lifters, I forgot to mention that the compression was about 145 on each cylinder"

[Bloo]

Original thread about this problem:

 

 

Thread 2:

 

 

Thread 3, problem found:

 

 

 

 

 

[Bloo]

19 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

Apparently compression was the same in all cylinders.? 145 is not that good though, I don't think.

 

Compression ratios in 70s Detroit V8s were around 8.5:1. Often if actually CCed, they were lower than specified. Honestly, I'm surprised it wasn't worse, but the mileage is pretty low. Also, the actual compression number can vary a lot between gauges and mechanics.

 

Even on all cylinders (within reason) is what you want to see. 10% would be nice. 20% is typical and generally means "not broken". One cylinder (or two) really low is a definite problem, unless the car has been sitting for years, and in that case all bets are until it runs a little while.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[padgett]

I use only steel timing gears. My experience is that when a nylon gear goes, the engine stops running. Period. Also since the labor to replace the timing gears and chain is the same as to replace the cam, it is a no braner. Water pump and lifters same-same. Have done before in a plain 2-car garage with hand tools in a morning.

 

Agree a bad cam is unusual but has happened, '89-'90 3800s had a similar issue.

 

Being what I am, would go for a bit more aggressive cam to raise the torque peak to about 70 mph in cruise. Those cars were designed for the 55.

 

ps someone else watches Foster's Home ?

Edited May 13, 2018 by padgett (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Never, ever, ever ever, put a plastic timing sprocket back in an engine. I doubt you could still buy one, but if you can, don't.

 

When one of these sets fails, it leaves you stranded and needing a tow. It also dumps pieces of nylon in the oil pan, and by the time the sprocket fails the little pieces of nylon are hard as rocks. These little rocks can and do get sucked up into the oil pump. On FE Ford engines, it stops the oil pump, and has caused many engine failures. On an engine with a more robust oil pump drive, the oil pump would have to grind the pieces of plastic up. Remember that they are not soft like new nylon. It would then spit them out, hopefully to be caught by the oil filter, but you cannot depend on that. If the engine is cold and the oil filter is in bypass, off to the bearings they go....

 

In any event there is really no chance the timing set is any good unless someone has been in there recently and replaced it. If you take an engine with a "silent chain" (stock-type) timing chain apart at 20k miles, you will find the timing chain sloppy loose. This it as true with steel sprockets as it is with nylon. It will probably already be past the manufacturer's wearlimit, and at 60k it definitely will be. Since engines generally do not get taken apart this young, few people know. A ton of slop is tolerable, and the driver will never know the difference until the chain jumps and he needs a tow. The chain wont jump until way past 100k miles if the sprockets are steel. When the engine is finally taken apart the reaction will be "wow, this chain is really shot", and no one will realize it has been shot since the car was young.

 

Most "double roller" chains are no better. They wear out just as fast as silent chains do. An exception is a "true roller" chain set. "true roller" means that the rollers in the chain are on bearings and can spin by themselves. It is easy to tell if you have it in your hand. They are expensive, and it is doubtful you could justify the cost for most stock engines. Billions of miles were logged with silent chains, and no one ever saw them as a problem until those plastic sprockets came along.

[Bloo]

4 hours ago, padgett said:

 

ps someone else watches Foster's Home ?

 

HAHA yes, thats what it is from. Some people from another forum started calling me Bloo and it stuck.

[MarkV]

Okay lots of responses. I do a lot of work to my cars, radiators, alternators, hoses, thermostats, starters, wiring, gaskets, interior, belts, hoses,  Ive removed lots on my ancient cars (timing covers, etc.) (21 chevy, etc.). I do have a few weeks off coming up and I maybe game to try this myself. I have never done any kind of engine work ever to any of my cars (none of them needed it). So thats why I am a bit apprehensive with this whole thing, I am afraid I will really screw something up, and at the same time I really dont want to waste essentially $800 to a grand on labor, which I feel is ridiculous (you can buy alot with that!).  

[C Carl]

With all the great guys here helping you, go for it ! Importantly also, since you have the 80 year old mechanic as a friend (?), pay him a few bucks to come over at critical points to look over your shoulder. And do pay particular attention to replacing what is low hanging fruit as per padgett's highly experienced suggestions above. These guys giving you advice are highly skilled experts who are very kind generous people. That is why they are here. Enjoying helping others, and will see you through this. And while saving money on labor, don't skimp on parts. Get the very best component money can by. You don't want to be having to pull out your chopsticks and remove a junk waterpump a few miles down the line. The guys even know what the best parts are. DO NOT TRY TO SAVE MONEY ON PARTS. In the long run you will find that the very best parts turn out to be a bargain. What is YOUR TIME REALLY WORTH ?   -  CC 

[mike6024]

http://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/melling-4252/engine-parts---mounts-16774/valvetrain-16589/camshaft-12073/8cb684bb523d/melling-camshaft/soc9/4441249/

 

This supposedly is the oem spec Calif complaint camshaft.  Melling Camshaft, Part # SOC9 Line: MEL, $74.99

Fits: Seville Base with engine V8 - 5.7L 350ci GAS MFI vin R - 2 valve OHV    1976-1977*

 

Here's a basic video on camshaft replacement, not your particular engine though - 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Olds V8 cam replacement. I looked for a Seville but did not find one. This is part of the engine family used in the 79 Seville, the main difference being fuel injection. This will give you some idea what you are up against.

 

 

[poci1957]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 3:07 PM, MarkV said:

I have never done any kind of engine work ever to any of my cars (none of them needed it). So thats why I am a bit apprehensive with this whole thing, I am afraid I will really screw something up, and at the same time I really dont want to waste essentially $800 to a grand on labor, which I feel is ridiculous (you can buy alot with that!).  

 

Well one good thing is the nature of this project would have you able to knock out the parts normally needing replaced on a 40 year old car like the timing chain and gears (do not use nylon), the water pump (watch for cheap impellers on replacements) and belts & hoses, gaskets, etc.  Just make sure you have the factory service manual for reference and take a few "before" photos since a 1970s GM car has lots of parts under there to keep track of, especially a Cadillac.  But with this one big job you could be all sorted and ready to go for the next 20 years, Todd C 

[Bloo]

And maybe motor mounts too if they happen to be easily accessible with all the front-of-engine parts removed.

[Rusty_OToole]

Dyno test of mild Olds 350 hop up. This is the kind of street motor I was talking about before with mild cam, headers, Edelbrock intake but in this case they didn't use a Rochester carb. Stock engine, 310HP modified 391HP. Running on 94 octane pump gas.  I am NOT suggesting you do this on your Seville.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)