37 Buick solenoid end play

[BuicksBuicks]

My 37 Special has problems engaging the starter at times. I noticed that there is about 1/4" end play in the solenoid linkage to the starter engaging mechanism.  The play is strictly in the "hinge" of the solenoid plunger. If I get rid of this end play the starter gear will have an extra 1/4" of penetration to the flywheel. I really don't want to pull the starter but it looks like I'll have to; I just don't want to mess with something I should have left alone. Working outside in a New Jersey December isn't the most fun.

 

The flywheel is worn but not to a critical stage; I haven't looked at the starter gear.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Sounds to me like a good idea. Certainly can't hurt anything. Doesn't sound like the best weather to do it in.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Best not to adjust that with the starter on the car. There are a couple of places where there is designed in slop.

 

To adjust, with the starter off of the car, pull the plunger in. You will have to take the little boot loose if the car has one. Pull the outside edge (the big round part) in all the way.

 

You can easily see the outside edge with the boot off. Pull on that, not any part of the linkage.

 

With the outside edge bottomed out in the solenoid, there needs to be 1/8 inch clearance between the tip of the starter gear and the inside of the housing where it would crash if the linkage were too tight. The back side of a 1/8 drill bit would be handy to measure this.

 

The piece that goes into the solenoid plunger is threaded for adjustment (with the linkage disconnected).

 

I once repaired a 37 starter that had one of the two electrical windings in the solenoid burned out. Someone back in the day had tried to compensate by tightening the linkage. The starter drive gear, the ring gear, the nose housing and the fork all needed to be replaced.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history)

[BuicksBuicks]

I guess there's little doubt that I've got to pull the starter out. One big reason for my hesitation is severe arthritis in my hands. To save time I just ordered a new starter gear from "Bob's"; it surprised me that these are still available!  It may get up fifty degrees over the next few days so I've got to get moving..

[pont35cpe]

The ring gear on the flywheel may be the problem, teeth chewed away preventing the starter gear from engaging..  A bad starter switch(vacuum operated) will activate the starter while the engine is running, resulting in damage to the flywheel ring gear teeth..

[Bloo]

What exactly does it do wrong?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

13 hours ago, pont35cpe said:

The ring gear on the flywheel may be the problem, teeth chewed away preventing the starter gear from engaging..  A bad starter switch(vacuum operated) will activate the starter while the engine is running, resulting in damage to the flywheel ring gear teeth..

 

 If the '37 is like the'50, there is a circuit in the generator that breaks the ground to the starter relay when the gen is genning, preventing the starter from running. 

 

  Ben

[MCHinson]

32 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 If the '37 is like the'50, there is a circuit in the generator that breaks the ground to the starter relay when the gen is genning, preventing the starter from running. 

 

  Ben

 

There is a vacuum switch as well as an electrical circuit to prevent the starter from engaging when the engine is running on a 1937. They have been known to fail resulting in some impressive flywheel ring gear damage over the years on some cars. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I was not sure on the '37, Matt.  I guess if man made it, it could fail applies. 

 

  I was able to "clean up" the flywheel teeth on my car with it in place. I used a wireless drill with a small abrasive wheel and smoothed the leading edge on each tooth. 

 

  Ben

[Gary W]

3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

There is a vacuum switch as well as an electrical circuit to prevent the starter from engaging when the engine is running on a 1937. They have been known to fail resulting in some impressive flywheel ring gear damage over the years on some cars. 

 

 

 

 

Here's mine.....   

 

[MCHinson]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

I was not sure on the '37, Matt.  I guess if man made it, it could fail applies. 

 

  I was able to "clean up" the flywheel teeth on my car with it in place. I used a wireless drill with a small abrasive wheel and smoothed the leading edge on each tooth. 

 

  Ben

I was able to clean mine up too on the 1938 project. Gary wins the prize for the worst one I have ever seen. Many ring gears have been removed, flipped and reinstalled. Gary needed a new one. 

[pont35cpe]

Both(vac/electric) must have failed on Garys `37..

[BuicksBuicks]

To clarify my starter  engagement issue, the vacuum switch has long been disconnected and a starter button installed under the dash. I haven't removed the flywheel cover and hope that I won't need to what with my physical restrictions. With a mirror on a stick and an LED flashlight I've looked at the flywheel through the timing hole and although damaged, it doesn't look terrible.  The engine has 68K miles on it so its not an engine that has been heavily over used or started.

 

Thanks to Bloo for informing me about the threaded adjustment of the solenoid plunger linkage; that's something I will certainly look at next; its something that I can do by simply removing the solenoid rather than pulling the entire starter. For now I've ordered the starter gear and on the next somewhat warm day I'll pull the starter and hope for the best.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Whoa, stop, reread Bloos instructions. You do need the starter removed and on the bench. The 1/8 inch clearance he mentions is between the starter gear and the inside edge of the starter nose casting.  I will confirm Bloos information....It was the starter on my Roadmaster that he rebuilt...  works great  .

Edited December 21, 2017 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

 

8 hours ago, MCHinson said:

. Gary wins the prize for the worst one I have ever seen. Many ring gears have been removed, flipped and reinstalled. Gary needed a new one. 

 

Worst ring gear that I have seen also.

[MCHinson]

4 hours ago, BuicksBuicks said:

To clarify my starter  engagement issue, the vacuum switch has long been disconnected and a starter button installed under the dash. I haven't removed the flywheel cover and hope that I won't need to what with my physical restrictions. With a mirror on a stick and an LED flashlight I've looked at the flywheel through the timing hole and although damaged, it doesn't look terrible.  The engine has 68K miles on it so its not an engine that has been heavily over used or started.

 

 

 

If you look closely at Gary's photos you will see that it does not appear to have worn uniformly all the way around the ring gear. You might want to rotate the engine a bit and look at different areas of the ring gear. You might have looked at a good section and a much worse section could exist. I also think you need to find a local friend to remove the starter and the flywheel inspection cover for you. The cover is really easy to remove if you can get on the floor under the car. It gives you good access to clean up the teeth of the ring gear if it is salvagable.