RichBad Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Hi, Does anyone have some drawings/measurements and photos of a 1927/1928 Dodge Brothers Series 128/129 chassis/frame? Mine has some front end damage which has been repaired (badly) and I'm trying to figure out how bad it is so I can determine how best to repair. many thanks, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Richard i will give you a call soon an discuss this with you bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Thanks Bob, I've been trying not to trouble you with everything you must have on your plate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Started at the back and working my way forward - I think this car has had a few stacks in its life. Rear end mostly sorted. Now fixing up just behind the engine mounts. Someone did a rubbish repair at some stage - have pulled of their patches and now need to clean up. is this a weak point in the car? It looks like both chassis rails had cracked just behind the rear engine mount but from the top and not all the way down. Will clean it up and see what it looks like. Then on to the front end which is much worse:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Richard this is not uncommon for these frames , being so light they tend to twist a lot from the engine back and crack . Bare with me , have been very busy of late , will put some infomation up for . Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 Thanks Bob - they sure do twist easily! I'll keep on cleaning up all the previous 'repairs' and wait to hear from you. Hopefully you are busy in a good way$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Richard I hope these are some use to you , sorry for the late response but have been busy , radiators from the last centuary have keep me busy, oh just some things hanging on the wall one dae i will have to get to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 Thanks Bob, that's very helpful. That's a lot of Dodge parts you have! I can see what's going on with my chassis now. The damage behind my rear engine mount looks almost identical. For the front end I think I may end up cutting off so I can repair it properly. Do do you have any books with some measurements listed? I think when mine was repaired it wasn't aligned first resulting in the front end being higher than it should (may explain why my bonnet had huge gaps to the body at the bottom). some useful ones would be: Width between front spring mounts Distance between front spring mounts (front to back) Height from front engine mount to top of chassis rail at cross member) Height between front engine mount and rear engine mount (or top of main chassis rail). cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 O k I will do some for you but it will be next week as I am away for the next few days Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 No worries, thanks so much for your help! I also need to get few parts when you're back and get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 If you need one, I have a 1927 fast four engine and transmission for sale....turns over easily...was put away in a good garage 50 years ago.....on a pallet ready to ship or be picked up in Winchester Va...asking $1000.... david.coco@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Does anyone have a side view drawing of the Chassis? I wanted to record some dimensions and it would be better than me trying to sketch it:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Gee you come up with some good ones , and that one i have not got, from the top looking down yes but not side on , I guess I will have to set one up and take side view for you , will come back to you latter in the week Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Thanks for the reply Bob - I can draw it I just thought someone may have a side view already. The books I have all had top view not side too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Managed to draw up my chassis and take some measurements. Want to check front end and cross member drop heights from top of main chassis (seems to be flat from just in front of engine mounts to just behind rear cross member). I used a box section to check on my chassis as shown in the photo. All in mm (sorry:)). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Made a start on it - taken the front end off to clear out the old ‘repairs’ and straighten out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Gee Rich,I don't envy you with the task that you have ahead of you I do have one question though are you going to re rivet the cross member in or are you going to use bolts? Reason I am asking is I do have some rivets that you can have if you go that way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Thanks Ron, I’m planning on riveting (gotta learn how first). Ive got some rivets but not sure if they are correct size. What are the dims for the ones you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Rich I have 3 Sunshine milk tins full of various sizes and head shapes What size are the holes in your frame Possibly 5/16 ths or 3/8 I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I hope you guys don't mind me asking but what is wrong with welding the chassis? A neat, deep weld would be far more satisfactory I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Ray we are talking about re riveting the cross member back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Hi Ron. Why would you use rivets to do that? Is it for originality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Ray I believe that in the good old days it was believed that bolts would come loose . Welding in the X members there would be no flex and this would lead to cracking Mind you I don't envy the task that Rich is taking on I am just trying to help him with rivets to redo the assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Thanks for that, Ron. I would have thought the flexing would occur along the length of the chassis side rails and cross member rather than at the joins which would want to be as tight as you can get them - so that was why I would have probably have elected for plug welds rather than rivets or bolts which are both prone to work loose. I am biased of course because my Dad was a professional welder and it's likely that is what he would have done. You can't beat a nice gas weld but it takes years of experience to get it to that standard. Having said that, I wouldn't have minded if someone had replaced the rivets in my front cross member with bolts - it would have been nice to remove it when getting the engine out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) richard i will have look at the frame on the very top of the stacked frames as it has been cut through the front crossmember and may be of use to you rather than trying to fix this mess, will look later to day and talk with you latter on bob Edited October 17, 2017 by robert b (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Thanks Ron - it looks like 5/16 round head and some 3/8 flat head on the end mounts. Ray - sticking with the rivets for originality (as I’m stubborn) also, the previous welding was a right mess! Bob - thanks! If the cross member is already cut in that chassis it could be possible to graft the front end? That would still be a lot easier than what I’m trying to do to straighten my fronts. currently to straighten my fronts I’m thinking (once I’ve managed to remove the existing plates and weld) I’ll cut out the bulk of the vertical section for most of the length and fit in a new piece in the gap (I can make two matching - one for each side). That would help reduce the number of pieces and hopefully help keep the strength. Lots of work though - mainly cleaning out the existing mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I believe if a chassis was riveted then repaired and refitted cross members must be riveted back in, in this country. It is too risky that bolts would come undone. Rivets don't come undone. They can become loose, but there is very little chance of a catastrophic failure = coming out and the chassis falling apart. Welds also are not as good as rivets, unless certified. I think that is the case for Low Volume Vehicles (e.g. specials, hotrods, reproductions, etc.) in this country. BTW, we are not allowed to weld drag links. I imagine there have been a few back yard jobs that have come apart in the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Bolts should not come loose. But there is clearance in the hole which will allow movement or you could not get the bolts in the hole. Rivets are heated and peened to swell them and take up all the clearance making for a tight fit. That is why skyscrapers were riveted not bolted. You are headed in the right direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Richard had a chanch to day to get up and look at the frame on top , the front section is in bad shape, yours is better , some one has gone wild with the welder all over the front dumb irons . that said if you want any part of them let me know , will post pics sunday . will be away tomorrow and back sunday . bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Ok, thanks for looking Bob - a few pictures around the cross member chassis joint would be helpful if you get a chance. I’ll start cutting mine apart to get the old weld/plate out. Have a good day off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) A weekend with the grinder (whoever repaired it last liked weld). Have the cross member separated from the sides. Cross member not too bad but needs some repairs to the mounts. Have cut a repair piece for the sides, next step is to cut out the vertical section of the sides to fit the new section (and clear out more weld). Edited October 23, 2017 by RichBad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Had enough of grinding so thought I’d move to something constructive and repaired the rear spare wheel mounts and re attached to the chassis. First attempt at riveting, not as easy as I thought but getting better the more I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Rich are you using a pneumatic hammer to do the riveting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Yes, it works quite well but the bit I’ve been having difficulty with is holding tight from the other side whilst using the air hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Its good to have two people do it and use the heaviest dolly you can 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Had a couple of questions before I start putting the front end back together. 1. Is the chassis outer face a straight line from front to rear spring mount? 2. Should the chassis top edge be straight from the rear cross member to the steering box front mount holes? 3. Where the front chassis top edge starts to angle up (from just in front of steering box) is it a straight line to the front cross member? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Another weekend with the grinder - we’ll and truly had enough of metal filings! Pretty much cleaned out all the previous ‘repairs’ now. Should be a lot lighter! Front engine mounts also had some bad repairs so removed them from the cross member to fix up. There was a lot of weld to cut out! Rear engine mounts had also been caught up in previous weld repairs so removed them too. The frame was bent up and inwards from just behind the rear mounts so have to straighten that too (assuming the rails should be straight along the length). Ready so start fixing pieces back in place - need to get some dimensions first before I start welding - help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Richard the rails are straight along the length . bob when you can ring me bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 Any idea what these two holes are for? I thought perhaps there was a strip attached over the top of the fuel pipe to stop it rubbing on the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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